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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter1000 View Post
    That doesn't make sense and sounds wrong.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    The world is not medieval. Casters can make water pure by touching it and produce food for a dozen people every day, at low level. They can cure any disease in seconds. That changes the game early on.
    Later, we can move goods instantly, create them from nothing and change htem from one material to another. That changes the economy.

    Really, in a world where casters can stop time, go for a cup of tea in heaven in the afternoon, talk to gods, summon rainbow coloured flying snakes, clone themselves, build golems out of stained glass and demon parts and create new worlds that are made out of rubber and prone to earthquakes, what is so bad about someone creating a chicken with alchemy?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter1000 View Post
    No way would I allow it. It's just ridiculous and stupid.
    Test tubes, in a medieval fantasy game? That doesn't make sense and sounds wrong.
    Why does that sound wrong? The real world had alchemists once. They had to use something to work with those chemicals, even if they had only the vaguest notion of what they were doing.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-07-28 at 08:45 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    I'm going to clock in to the: does it work in your game world.

    Balance wise, I'd be careful letting them create things beyond basic animals.

    But really it matters most if it fits the setting fluff.

    I know in mine a combination of high level arcane and divine magic can create life as can other high level magic. Theoretically you also need the appropriate skill set (Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge skills).

    So I'd say there's no universal answer only the right one or wrong one for you.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Maybe, it depends, I probably would have the same spellcasting requirement as alchemy, and make it livestock only, hence craft livestock, because if its animals, crafting wartrained legendary tigers is a go, and everything, you can bet they'll start making angels and dragons and ask for prices for those things. Still at low levels, animals can be rather powerful (More so in 2nd ed, two 2nd ed light warhorses sometimes were as effective as the PC with them, when he got them to attack). If I don't want something like that in my setting, no, if it's added mid game, I'd have want an explanation, and make townspeople say "That ain't natural, it ain't right." and if they know how it was made, be cautious to buy it, though the PC doesn't have to tell.

  6. - Top - End - #36

    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Do they want to grow actual animals, or just the meat, or similar?

    I'd probably allow the lesser, as a normal craft check (so, earning money, I suppose) from (maybe) Craft: Alchemy. The latter, I might allow, but not quite so easily.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighter1000 View Post
    No way would I allow it. It's just ridiculous and stupid.
    Test tubes, in a medieval fantasy game? That doesn't make sense and sounds wrong.
    Bah!

    By the D&D 3.5 rules we have:

    A level 1 character. With infinite power.

    Infinite action loop on a level 5+ crusader.

    The ability to point at a Wall of Force spell and make it go away. Without magic.

    Tippyverse.

    And Eberron.

    You can create Iron Man if you want. 3.5 is not what it's supposed to be. Look past the lies, and see Fabricate. See Craft (Underwater Basketweaving). See the self-resetting Create Water traps.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2012-07-28 at 09:39 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Also, may I be the first to point out that a regular glass vial would also work just as well?
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    It would depend on the campaign setting. In a sci-fi game, sure. But in a pseudo-medival world, no such genetic knowledge exists. They could do it magically, but in this case it would not be a craft skill, it would be a spell. So no, I would not allow it.
    ^ This

    I just don't see how growing animals via scientific method functions in a typical fantasy world. Some of the simplest tools needed would be a hypodermic needle and a microscope and as far as I know here's not really a viable alternative for those in most settings.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    And don't forget the term "test tube animal" is kind of a misnomer. They aren't literally growing a cow in a big glass tube. They remove an egg and sperm and fertilize them outside of the body and then place the fertilized egg back inside the uterus.

    Can you explain a method in which the PC would be able to accomplish this?
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    I don't know why it has to be achievable without magic; alchemy sets a precedent for magical crafting. The setting's more the stumbling block.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    I don't know why it has to be achievable without magic; alchemy sets a precedent for magical crafting. The setting's more the stumbling block.
    Alchemy doesn't give you magical effects, Brew potion does.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    The results aren't magical but the process is implied to be (a sorcerer can do it, but an expert can't). That's the same impression I'm getting from the OP's situation.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-07-29 at 01:26 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    The results aren't magical but the process is implied to be (a sorcerer can do it, but an expert can't). That's the same impression I'm getting from the OP's situation.
    How do you figure the process of alchemy is anything other the alchemical?
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by invaderk2 View Post
    How do you figure the process of alchemy is anything other the alchemical?
    Because for some confounded reason Craft (Alchemy) REQUIRES you to be a caster to craft anything, implying it takes magical knowledge to do it.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    I think that the does it fit in your campaign world question is a good one. It seems like most people who say "no its stupid" have campaign worlds where it is very pseudo-medival-y and the people who think it would be okay think that
    as Eldan put it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Really, in a world where casters can stop time, go for a cup of tea in heaven in the afternoon, talk to gods, summon rainbow coloured flying snakes, clone themselves, build golems out of stained glass and demon parts and create new worlds that are made out of rubber and prone to earthquakes, what is so bad about someone creating a chicken with alchemy?
    They want to grow actual animals, not meat.

    The method for making the animal would be somewhat magical, it would be more than growing animals via scientific method.

    @invaderk2: I can't really explain the method which the PC would be able to accomplish this. I think that it is meant to be somewhat unclear and magic-y.

    @ Gnomish Wanderer: I think that the point of it is humor and so that if your donkey gets killed while your in a dungeon you could spend a few days growing a new one and then taking the treasure away on the test-tube donkey instead of going back to town, buying a donkey, going back to the dungeon and then taking the treasure away on the normal donkey.

    @Eldan: Could I sig "I'd call a Donkey a complex item"?

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomish Wanderer View Post
    Because for some confounded reason Craft (Alchemy) REQUIRES you to be a caster to craft anything, implying it takes magical knowledge to do it.
    Yes it requires magical knowledge, it doesn't make the things you craft magical in any way. Whatever you craft is still a mundane object, it doesn't get infused with magical properties.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by invaderk2 View Post
    Yes it requires magical knowledge, it doesn't make the things you craft magical in any way. Whatever you craft is still a mundane object, it doesn't get infused with magical properties.
    I agree it may be magic, though it ends up being a mundane chicken, though it is created through alchemy. Making it fall under a magic item creation feat would make it so nobody would take it, you lose a bit of EXP, for a creature that won't help much, and it takes a feat.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    You might use one of the weaker bags of tricks as a balancing point to figure out price.
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeGninjas View Post
    Hypothetically A PC wants to take Craft (livestock). Not breeding animals, but growing them in test tubes and things like that.

    Would you allow it?
    Would you never allow it?
    In what circumstances would it be acceptable?

    The character in question would be a some what insane magic user.
    I'd probably just inform them that creating crazy abnormal creatures is standard magical training(see also, the duckbunny). Thus, knowledge(arcana) will cover this.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Would You Allow It?

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeGninjas View Post
    @Eldan: Could I sig "I'd call a Donkey a complex item"?
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