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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Well... yes.

    Thus far every single statement that the Oracle has ever made has either been right or undeturmined. He has never been wrong.
    Well, that's mostly true. Anything he fortells is always true, but if he just assumes things, he can be wrong. Like when he told Roy's ghost that he would remember nothing of his visit to the tower except for the Belkar's demise prophecy.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Unless he deliberately planned that it should happen that way.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Wouldn't overly surprise me to see Tarquin kill Belkar in this current battle, honestly....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Sometimes it feels like all these forums are is pointless speculation. But pointless speculation can be fun sometimes! After reading all of these other theories and thinking about it, I certainly think it would be realistic for Durkon and Belkar to die at the same time. Both of their deaths have been foreshadowed, and it is known that the last gate is going to be in Durkon's homeland. If Rich wanted to bring Durkon back from the dead after fulfilling the posthumous return prophecy, now would be as good a time as ever. The order is most likely headed to the Dwarven lands next, and since Durkon is involved in a quest to save the world I'm sure the Dwarves could spare some resources to resurrect him.

    As for Belkar's death, whether or not it is coming up before or after the last gate isn't yet clear. There's plenty of room for it to go either way plot wise and time wise. Either way, the idea that he could kill V or V could kill him is also very plausible. It is well established that the IFCC has a lease on V's soul in the future. It is also known that they have a stake in the outcome of the gates. If V turns on the order it certainly stands to reason that Belkar would be more than happy to settle past scores with the elf without fear of group disapproval or repercussions.

    I know that's not adding much new to the discourse, but I just wanted to reiterate the realism of some of the predictions, just for sake's sake.
    Last edited by CloakedDancer; 2012-08-11 at 01:36 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #65
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html

    Any thought on how much in-oots time passed since that strip?

    (or maybe there was a speculation already and someone could link it?)

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoul-n View Post
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html

    Any thought on how much in-oots time passed since that strip?

    (or maybe there was a speculation already and someone could link it?)
    At least a fortnight, or two weeks.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by CloakedDancer View Post
    Sometimes it feels like all these forums are is pointless speculation. But pointless speculation can be fun sometimes! After reading all of these other theories and thinking about it, I certainly think it would be realistic for Durkon and Belkar to die at the same time. Both of their deaths have been foreshadowed, and it is known that the last gate is going to be in Durkon's homeland. If Rich wanted to bring Durkon back from the dead after fulfilling the posthumous return prophecy, now would be as good a time as ever. The order is most likely headed to the Dwarven lands next, and since Durkon is involved in a quest to save the world I'm sure the Dwarves could spare some resources to resurrect him.
    Though as I recall, On the Origin of PCs had a rather dire prophecy regarding Durkon returning to his homeland (dire for his homeland, not just for Durkon). I won't go into detail to avoid spoiling it for those who haven't yet read it, but... you should go reread that section if you own the book.
    LGBTitP

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    So, eh. We can actually have 3 years or so before Belkar actually dies :D

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Belkar will almost certainly be killed by the Kobold in the Linear Guild. Probably the flying one (who is seemingly a noncombatant) All the previous Kobolds that have been offed by Belkar were at least marginal threats... having the non-combatant kill him, would bring a measure of parity

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    I don't think he will by killed by Kilkil (or any other kobold), because I think the Oracle would have taunted him about it.

    Okay, it's not any sort of cast-iron reason...
    Last edited by gerryq; 2012-08-14 at 11:36 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    He intentionally dies in a noble way to screw with the rest of the party and make them think on how they "needed him all along?"

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    I'm guessing heroic sacrifice. Read on for details on my best guess.

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    Shortly after the current battle vs. the Linear Guild, the OotS will discover that Xykon is already there and has seized control of the current gate and is __this close__ to controlling it. The OotS will be too depleted from taking on the Linear Guild to hope to stop him. Belkar, perhaps furious over the loss of Mr. Scruffy, will do a suicide run (which will involve him being taken apart by the Snarl) in order to blow the gate.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.5 cats View Post
    I'm guessing heroic sacrifice. Read on for details on my best guess.

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    Shortly after the current battle vs. the Linear Guild, the OotS will discover that Xykon is already there and has seized control of the current gate and is __this close__ to controlling it. The OotS will be too depleted from taking on the Linear Guild to hope to stop him. Belkar, perhaps furious over the loss of Mr. Scruffy, will do a suicide run (which will involve him being taken apart by the Snarl) in order to blow the gate.
    Even if everyone's speculation that Hinjo and Eugene will be unable to send any kind of warning whatsoever is correct, there is still the issue that the ritual takes several weeks. Xykon and Redcloak would have had a week at the very best.

    There is no way the battle with the Linear guild is going to take that long.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    I personally see:

    OotS is winning the current ambush, Until Durkon is killed by Tarquin.

    hazy hazy, something about fight being over (probably including Nale's death)

    Malak raises Durkon using OotS last diamonds.

    at this point, there is no conflict, and V is running around crazy...

    IFCC seizes their time from V, taking control of him and using it to destroy the gate (which neither OotS nor the Empire want at this point).

    They try to stop him, Belkar does something special to turn the battle (Throws scruffy at the right time? Dunno), Belkar dies, the IFCC runs out of time with V and... of course the gate blows.

    *Hazy Hazy* Somehow The Empire gets their comeuppance...(?)

    Team Evil finds out the gate's been blown and they rush to the Next gate, as does OotS, and we're on to the next book.


    But maybe I'm Just CRAZY!?

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by Toy Killer View Post
    I personally see:

    OotS is winning the current ambush, Until Durkon is killed by Tarquin.

    hazy hazy, something about fight being over (probably including Nale's death)

    Malak raises Durkon using OotS last diamonds.

    at this point, there is no conflict, and V is running around crazy...

    IFCC seizes their time from V, taking control of him and using it to destroy the gate (which neither OotS nor the Empire want at this point).

    They try to stop him, Belkar does something special to turn the battle (Throws scruffy at the right time? Dunno), Belkar dies, the IFCC runs out of time with V and... of course the gate blows.

    *Hazy Hazy* Somehow The Empire gets their comeuppance...(?)

    Team Evil finds out the gate's been blown and they rush to the Next gate, as does OotS, and we're on to the next book.


    But maybe I'm Just CRAZY!?
    So the IFCC's master plan, which is supposed to make the killing of an amount of good dragons 5x greater than the great amount of black dragons V zapped a trivial business, is to use their V time to... destroy one gate? Riiight.

    Sorry but that's just... no. :-P
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    I s'pose not all of them have to use up the entire time (after all Darth V did a lot of awesome in the small amount of time he Did have), and perhaps I'm wrong entirely.

    If the snarl is released... wouldn't that kill a lot of good dragons? They didn't say they wouldn't kill bad dragons too in the promise to Tiamat, after all. I understand that they don't necessarily want the snarl lose, and the god's may not appreciate the threat to existence (Yet again), but they are motivated by creating conflict, and what is the most damage they can do in that small amount of time and create conflict then:

    A) separating V from the Order of the Stick (It's kinda hard to forgive someone that makes pacts with infernal beings and then kills a fellow party member as a direct consequence.)

    B) Puts a lot of emphasis on the last Gate not being destroyed (Which, I for one have already accepted that it is going to be at some point, just for rising tension and end of the second act for the whole mythic arc in process.) as the order doesn't want the snarl lose, Redcloak needs it intact for his ritual, Gods don't want to make like the Greek pantheon, etc.

    C) and finally, here's the big one. Gets the Gods Involved for their own safety. After all, when Durkon goes home, he's supposed to bring a great catastrophe with him. Not much greater then God's dueling it out over whom is keeping the last Gate safe.

    EDIT:
    Remember that Redcloak is keeping the fact he can relocate the snarl secret. Even Xykon doesn't know. likely the only one that does is his deity given the magnitude of his actions and how easily they could be stopped otherwise by divine force.

    But then again, I may just be crazy.
    Last edited by Toy Killer; 2012-08-24 at 04:42 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    New to the story. Just finished reading the archives. Curious though. Did the Oracle actually say Belkar would die? I only remember him saying Belkar would draw his last breath. But I probably missed something somewhere though.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    (Paraphrases.)

    :oracle: He shouldn't bother funding his IRA.
    :oracle: He should savor his next birthday cake.
    :oracle: He's not long for the world.
    :oracle: What I am about to say is the same thing I said last time you were here, as well as the same thing as 'he's not long for the world': Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath--ever, so no theories about him getting resurrected--before the end of the in-comic year.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Thanks. That does kind of spell it out, huh?

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    It also says "not long for this world", "shouldn't fund his IRA" (some sort of retirement savings if I recall), and that he should "savor his next birthday cake"; although some interpretations of this may not rule out a Belkar-zombiefication, I'm personally pretty sure it wouldn't happen.
    1. Belkar is short. Therefore, not long for this world.
    2. Why fund an IRA when you're a Sexy Shoeless God of War?
    3. Who wouldn't want to savor a cake?

    IMO The Oracle is being overly literal.
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Those of you saying that the Order would resurrect Belkar are forgetting something.

    Roy wouldn't stand for it. If Roy makes the decision to raise Belkar, then Belkar is likely to go on to cause more pointless, innocent deaths. Roy will feel personally responsible (more than he already is) for any deaths after that point, and Roy already knows this and has thought it through. Roy doesn't want to deal with Belkar's murderous urges, he barely made it into the Celestial Realms the first time. When Belkar dies it would be in character for the entire party (even Durkon) will unanimously agree he's not worth raising.

    I think it's thematically appropriate and likely that Belkar will be eaten by the Snarl or raised as an undead or something that complicates raising him. However, knowing how Rich likes anticlimaxes, it's probably not going to happen that way. I think it's far more likely that Belkar will be killed by trying to murder the wrong people.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think it's most likely that Belkar will be killed by Roy (or we will at least see a page or two of Roy vs Belkar before he dies). Being with Belkar is something that Roy has compromised on, and if Belkar goes over the line Roy will do everything he can to stop him.
    Last edited by Thomar_of_Uointer; 2012-08-25 at 09:56 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRiov View Post
    Belkar will almost certainly be killed by the Kobold in the Linear Guild. Probably the flying one (who is seemingly a noncombatant) All the previous Kobolds that have been offed by Belkar were at least marginal threats... having the non-combatant kill him, would bring a measure of parity
    I don't think that Belkar has the same hatred of kobolds anymore. When we see Belkar with Yukyuk before he finds out that he shot Scruffy he doesn't seem to have any problem with him. Further he'd been staying in a city absolutely full of kobolds and even has one in prison with him and chooses not to fight the LG even though he probably knows that they have a kobold in their ranks.

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    frown Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Giant, please don't kill Belkar.

    Yeah, he's an evil bastard, but at least he's funny!
    There are at least 5 villains alive right now more evil than him who deserve to die more, without detrimenting the humor factor.

    I like Belkar

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Had a dream today in which Order captures Tarquin, Belkar starts teasing him and then disintegrate ray hits Belkar from off-panel

    Ohgosh, why.
    Last edited by ghoul-n; 2012-09-12 at 07:58 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by konradknox View Post
    Giant, please don't kill Belkar.

    Yeah, he's an evil bastard, but at least he's funny!
    There are at least 5 villains alive right now more evil than him who deserve to die more, without detrimenting the humor factor.

    I like Belkar
    As I've been saying: Gee, wouldn't it be convenient if we had three or so major antagonists who happened to be bound to the lower planes? Belkar is going to die, but I doubt he's getting written out of the comic.
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by konradknox View Post
    Giant, please don't kill Belkar.

    Yeah, he's an evil bastard, but at least he's funny!
    There are at least 5 villains alive right now more evil than him who deserve to die more, without detrimenting the humor factor.

    I like Belkar
    I don't think there are at least 5 (if any) villains who are inherently more Evil than the sadistic halfling psychopath. More dangerous? Yes, by all means. But more Evil? Hardly.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Well, being sadistic against bad guys is still good somehow.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoul-n View Post
    Well, being sadistic against bad guys is still good somehow.
    Has Xykon been informed of this?

    (And if he has, how horrible was the death immediately suffered by the hapless person who dared to inform Xykon he was "good somehow"?)
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Let's face it; the Oracle's predictions are lame and don't ever really count in Belkar's case.

    S/He said something like "Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath by the end of the year." so it could mean that he will draw a picture that he titles "His Last Breath," thus "drawing" his last breath.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Theories on Belkar's death

    Quote Originally Posted by karkus View Post
    Let's face it; the Oracle's predictions are lame and don't ever really count in Belkar's case.

    S/He said something like "Belkar Bitterleaf will draw his last breath by the end of the year." so it could mean that he will draw a picture that he titles "His Last Breath," thus "drawing" his last breath.
    Why would they not count in Belkar's case? Also, every prediction the Oracle has made so far has come true (or hasn't happened yet for obvious reasons, like with Elan's prophecy).

    And what about the other predictions about Belkar? "He should savor his next birthday cake", "shouldn't bother saving up for his retirement fund", and "not long for this world" (not to mention the "ever" added to the "draw his last breath" prophecy).
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    You forgot that the half-orc cleric who researched it is Redcloak's niece.
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