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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Question Oh God, Please Delete This Thread!

    I made this thread when I was a utter noob to rules and monster creation in general, and I would rather not have this stain upon my post history haunting in the future. Please, please delete this thread.

    Original, horribly ignorant text: I am a GM with little experience in monster design and in need of a design for the BBEG in our campaign. My general idea is an aeon from the Pathfinder Bestiary 2, a sort of upgraded Pleroma-esque thing. The class would probably be an extremely (but not to the point of gamebreaking) optimized lvl 30 wizard/lvl 30 cleric multiclass, representing the balance between creation and destruction and the divine and the arcane. Total caster level 60. Undetermined CR. I would be eternally grateful to anyone here who could do a full write up for me, or at least a general outline or template. Thanks!
    Last edited by demonman24; 2014-01-18 at 05:01 PM. Reason: It's an abomination

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Maquise's Avatar

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    I don't think you realize what you are asking for. The most powerful creature you can get outside of divine ranks is Level 30. Caster Level 60 is... completely outside the game.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Well, it's a multiclass of a 30th level equivalent cleric and wizard, so couldn't you just combine them, like in a normal multiclass?
    Last edited by demonman24; 2012-07-30 at 08:50 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Wait, are you asking for a monster, a class, or an original monster given wizard/cleric gestalt or multi-class levels, or an original monster given class levels in a new (original) class that has the total spell power of a level 30 cleric and a level 30 wizard?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    I apologize if I wasn't specific enough in the OP, I am looking for an original monster with 30 levels in cleric and 30 levels in wizard, for a total caster level of 60, or a 60th level gestalt of the two, whichever would be more powerful. It would also be very helpful if such a gestalt or multiclass was already optimized by yourself or someone else as much as possible without getting to the point of breaking the game.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Such a class combination would not give you a CL of 60. Wizard and Cleric both track Caster Level separately, so it would cast wizard spells at CL 30 and Cleric spells at CL 30, barring any weird theurge tricks.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    OK, but I did request the highest level of optimization possible without game breaking and that almost definitely includes "weird theurge tricks".

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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by demonman24 View Post
    I apologize if I wasn't specific enough in the OP, I am looking for an original monster with 30 levels in cleric and 30 levels in wizard, for a total caster level of 60, or a 60th level gestalt of the two, whichever would be more powerful. It would also be very helpful if such a gestalt or multiclass was already optimized by yourself or someone else as much as possible without getting to the point of breaking the game.
    It probably breaks the game for most people. I know I've never needed anything nearly that powerful. Unfortunately, you seem to want this to be Pathfinder compatible and I'm not proficient with that system yet. I am not sure I'd want to tackle it in 3.5 since it would be so complicated.

    Sorry.

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    It doesn't have to be, I could probably take care of the conversion myself. The reason I need something so powerful is that it's supposed to be the BBEG in an epic-level campaign. And by breaking the game I mean Pun-Pun level breaking, not very high epic level min-maxing. Oh, and it would actually be better if it were a gestalt class. Thanks!
    Last edited by demonman24; 2012-07-30 at 09:48 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
    I don't think you realize what you are asking for. The most powerful creature you can get outside of divine ranks is Level 30. Caster Level 60 is... completely outside the game.
    Caster Level 60 isn't much more powerful than Caster Level 40. And no, you can have an arbitrarily high level without being divine. After CR 90, however, it won't make that much sense. One notable CR 90 monster is the Time Dragon, who can cast an Empowered and Maximised Time stop at will. Not that the Immortal Handbook doesn't have CR 9 000+ monsters...

    A gestalt Cleric/Wizard 60 will definitely be more powerful than a simple Cleric 30/Wizard 30. Notably, it will have more hp and better spellcasting.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    It comes down to this: Do you want it to be something your players can actually defeat, or not?
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    OK, thanks, do you think you could build/optimize that for me? That would be awesome.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Diamorus, The Elder Being

    You look upon a siloette of a male human form, but as a lense through which you see the night sky. A cloak of purest crystal hangs from it's shoulders, and in stark contrast to the empty void. The raw energy of creation radiates from this being.

    Size/Type: Medium Overbeing
    Hitdice: (3d8+12) + (57d8+228) (450 HP)
    Inititive: +15
    Speed: Fly 60 (Perfect) Epic Teleport without Error at will.
    Armorclass: 23 (+13 Dexterity), Touch 23, Flat footed 10.
    Base Attack/Grapple: +45/+45
    Attack: None
    Full Attack: None
    Space/Reach: 5 ft/ 5 ft
    Special Attacks: Touch of the Incomprehensible.
    Special Qualities: Beyond Mortal. Unthinkable, Unknowable. Perceive.
    Saves: +36 Fort, +45 Reflex, +32 Will
    Abilities: 10 Str, 32 Dex, 18 Con, - Int, - Wis, - Cha
    Feats: Power beyond comprehension, Shaper of Law, Without Warning.
    Skills: Spellcraft +240

    Environment: His Throne within The Far Realm
    Organization: Singular
    Challenge Rating: Good Luck.
    Treasure: 21 Divine ranks.
    Alignment: Without Mortal Comprehension
    Advancement: unnecessary
    LA: -

    Combat:

    Touch of the Incomprehensible: As a standard action, ~ may perform a melee touch attack against one creature. Any creature touched with this ability receives a vision lasting an instant of the total history of the universe. Any creature who receives these visions has their wisdom and charisma reduced to 0.

    Beyond Mortal: When reduced to 0 HP, ~ enters stasis for one year, during which he heals. He does not age. He lacks need of food, water, or air.

    Unthinkable, Unknowable: ~ does not have an intelligence, wisdom, or charisma scores. These scores are considered Infinte for all intents and purposes.

    Perceive: No form of magic, no barriers, not darkness, nor fog. ~ does not suffer penalties for any effect that obscures knowledge of a person's location.

    Power Beyond Comprehension: ~ can cast spells as a Wizard, Cleric, and Druid of level equal to his hitdice.

    Shaper of Law: ~ can cast any spell he knows spontaneously, with any metamagic he knows applied to it. The spell level adjustment of metamagics do not apply to spells cast by ~.

    Without Warning: Regardless of normal casting time, any spell that ~ takes one standard action to cast, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-31 at 04:47 PM.
    My Homebrew: found here.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    The build is so bad it will need his powers to actually be a challenge. He has only three feats, and they are unique and overpowered.

    His hit points, AC, stats, and skills are all weak. He can't cast any spell at all because of the aforementioned stats.

    I suggest the following instead :
    Size/Type: Medium Outsider
    Hitdice: 60d8 +300 (780 pv)
    Initiative: +11
    Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares), Fly 60ft. (Perfect)
    Armorclass: 25 (+11 Dex, +4 Mage Armor), Touch 25, Flat footed 14
    Base Attack/Grapple: +45/+45
    Attack: None
    Full Attack: None
    Space/Reach: 5 ft/ 5 ft
    Special Attacks: Spells, Turn undead
    Special Qualities: Mage Armor, Rapid Summoning
    Saves: +37 Fort, +37 Reflex, +44 Will
    Abilities: Str 10, Dex 32, Con 20, Int 30, Wis 34, Cha 36
    Feats: Augment Summoning, Divine Metamagic, Empower Spell, Eschew materials, Maximise Spell, Silent Spell, Spell Focus (conjuration), Still Spell and Quicken Spell
    Epic feats : Epic Spellcasting, Ignore Material Components, Improved Metamagic (x4), Improved Spell Capacity (x8), Intensify Spell, Multispell (x4), Polyglot, Spell Stowaway (Time Stop), Spontaneous Domain Access (Luck), 4 other epic feats
    Skills: Diplomacy +76, Knowledge (arcana) +73, Knowledge (nature) +73, Knowledge (religion) +73, Spellcraft +93, Use Magic Device +96, 5 others skills +63
    Environment: The Center of the Multiverse
    Organization: Singular
    Challenge Rating: 61
    Treasure: Normal
    Alignment: True Neutral
    Advancement: -
    LA: -

    Mage Armor (Su). As the spell, permanent.
    Magic Mastery (Ex). Can ignore XP cost of non-epic spells, up to 5 000 PX per spell.
    Rapid Summoning (Ex). Cast Summon Monster spells as a standard action (not a full round action).
    Spells. Cast spells as a 60th level wizard and as a 60th level cleric. He knows all cleric and wizard spells and can prepare them without referring to a spellbook.
    Cleric spells per day equal to (6/9/8/8/8/8/6/6/6/6/2/2/2/2), plus one bonus spell per level between 1 and 9. The save DC is 22 + spell level.
    Prepared spells : 0- ; 1- ; 2- ; 3- ; 4- ; 5-Spell Resistance* ; 6- ; 7- ; 8- ; 9-Disjunction* ; 10-Quicken Implosion (x2) ; 11-Silent Quicken Disjunction ; 12- ; 13-
    * Domain spells. Domains : Luck, Magic.
    Wizard spells per day equal to (4/7/7/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/2/1/1/1). The save DC is 20 + spell level.
    Prepared spells : 0- ; 1- ; 2- ; 3- ; 4- ; 5- ; 6- ; 7- ; 8- ; 9- ; 10-Quick Time Stop, Quick Wish ; 11- ; 12-Intensified Time Stop ; 13-
    He can also cast 18 epic spells per day. 6 are arcane epic spells and 12 are divine epic spells (he choose when he cast the spell). The save DC is 30 for arcane epic spells and 32 for divine epic spells.
    epic spells know : Hellball (non XP cost, 8d6 backlash), Let Go Of Me (no backlash), Safe Time
    Turn undead (Su). 16 times a day.
    Skills. Racial bonus of +20 on Spellcraft and Use Magic Device checks.

    Now he can cast 5 9th level spells in the first round, with regular spell slots (but not more than once a day). Half decent.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-02 at 11:48 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    That's awesome, but I was looking more for something like a spell list and an outline of the class and it's progression, and I also want it to be something my players can actually beat, if the wisdom score is infinite then the save DCs would be infinite too.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Sorry there was a server error and I double posted.
    Last edited by demonman24; 2012-07-31 at 11:13 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    You can delete your second post in the edit window. ^.^
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Thanks!So, any more ideas or designs for this monster?

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by demonman24 View Post
    That's awesome, but I was looking more for something like a spell list and an outline of the class and it's progression, and I also want it to be something my players can actually beat, if the wisdom score is infinite then the save DCs would be infinite too.
    ...I think you need to give some more information. What level are your players? How many of them do you have? What do you envision this character spending most of their time doing? When will the PCs fight this character?

    And as was asked earlier: What exactly are you requesting? A spell list? Or a monster? Or a class? All three?
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    So it has an infinite will save. If you want to give players a way to get around that, give them a side quest to do, have a way to taint the thing with 'mortal perspective', even temporarily, thus giving it the 'real' mental scores that are listed above. Still high, but target-able. Otherwise, they have to stick to Ref, Fort, or no-save spells. Should be fun.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    My players are level 20 right now, but are expected to be level 30 by the time they complete this adventure and fight the BBEG.There are three of them. I expect this character to spend most of their time preparing for their arrival with traps and researched spells, buffing itself, and sending evil guys after them. I am requesting all three for the purpose of being able to better customize it, and the class part should be min maxed as well for the maximum possible capabilities, without getting to game-breaking levels.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by demonman24 View Post
    My players are level 20 right now, but are expected to be level 30 by the time they complete this adventure and fight the BBEG.There are three of them. I expect this character to spend most of their time preparing for their arrival with traps and researched spells, buffing itself, and sending evil guys after them. I am requesting all three for the purpose of being able to better customize it, and the class part should be min maxed as well for the maximum possible capabilities, without getting to game-breaking levels.
    Intensified Timestop at will seems like a pretty easy choice to actually use
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    I'm not sure what you mean. Also, Network, I like your build, but I feel it lacks flavor and special abilities, and it is supposed to fight and majorly challenge 3 30th level characters, so maybe you could optimize it up to or over 90 CR? Apologies in advance if it is already capable of that, and please explain how if so.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by demonman24 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. Also, Network, I like your build, but I feel it lacks flavor and special abilities, and it is supposed to fight and majorly challenge 3 30th level characters, so maybe you could optimize it up to or over 90 CR? Apologies in advance if it is already capable of that, and please explain how if so.
    Intensify Spell is a metamagic in the Epic Levels Handbook, that maximizes die roles, then doubles are variables of a spell excluding cl and DC. Intensified Time Stop is a full 10 rounds of free action.

    with infinite Int, Cha, and Wis, as well as free metamagics, that means it can be used for free every round. the Time dragon comparatively only gets 7 rounds of his at will time stop.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-31 at 04:07 PM.
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Thanks, but do you think you could make some alterations so it isn't invincible, just very difficult, for 3 30th level players?

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by demonman24 View Post
    Thanks, but do you think you could make some alterations so it isn't invincible, just very difficult, for 3 30th level players?
    Implosion, cast by a cleric using DMM: Heighten, spending at least 9 uses of turn undead, instant kill 95% of the time.


    He doesnt have regen, SR, and his saves for fort and reflex are abysmal for his level.
    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

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  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    I didn't post his 27 other feats, his prepared spells or his magic items. Spell Resistance will grant him a SR of 72. He can cast two Quickened Miracles and two Quickened Wish in the same turn thanks to Divine metamagic and Multispell (but nothing prevent him to quicken Implosion too).

    A Cloak of +10 Epic Resistance, and a Periapt of +12 Epic Wisdom, combined with a ring of Death ward and a ring of Universal Energy Immunity should be good enough. Something to boost Charisma, Intelligence or caster level is also useful.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Thank you!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    Now if anyone has any ideas for special, original, abilities for this monster, that would be great!

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: No Luck on Request a Homebrew

    An ability to ignore XP cost of non-epic spells, to make sure he can use Miracle and Wish without backlash.

    The problem is that if we optimize him too much, he will not only be a threat, but also an unbeatable boss.

    I didn't complete the build, but these feats remain interesting : Improved spell capacity, Improved metamagic, and Spontaneous domain access (luck). The first two will allow him to cast quickened 9th level spells more effectively, the third will allow him to spontaneously convert prepared divine spells in spells of the luck domain, thus allowing him to convert Implosion into Miracle if he needs to change of strategy.

    Some arbitrary epic spell, according to his spellcraft modifier, may also be appropriate, otherwise Antimagic Field is so easily cast.

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