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2012-12-02, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
If you're a Brandon Sanderson fan (or you want to start being one), check out The Sanderlanche podcast!
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2012-12-02, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
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2012-12-02, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
There, just finished the book. Much better than Ghost Story. So happy to see Harry doing magic again.
I'll post somemore in-depth reactions tomorrow. Really great book, though.Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
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2012-12-03, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Read Grave Peril and Summer Knight again this weekend. Some interesting foreshadowing going on there.
SpoilerMost interestingly being Lea, in Grave Peril, after she gets hold of Michael's sword, offers to give it back to him in exchange for his eldest child (who we now know is Molly). So it's possible that even way back when, Winter had an eye on her. Also in Summer Knight, some mention is made of Lea's "instruction" to Harry making him more susceptible to the Winter Court. Also, more relevantly, the process of the mantles are explained. The mantles get inherited by the nearest vessel either with a connection or with some sort of obligation to Faery, which is neatly what Molly has, come Cold Days. So it's not really all that unexpected. It's been hinted at since, like, 9 books ago.
Also, best of all: Lea tells Harry, when she explains the set-up with the stone altar, "Never let Mab bring you here". Which is exactly what happens 6 books later. This guy has been setting up set pieces since way back when. Also Lea already wears that tainted dagger, so I'm left wondering if she's already infected when all of that goes down.Awesome fremetar by wxdruid.
From the discomfort of truth there is only one refuge and that is ignorance. I do not need to be comfortable, and I will not take refuge. I demand to *know*.
So I guess I have an internets? | And a trophy. | And a music cookie (whatever that is).
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2012-12-03, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Just finished it last night. I'm very impressed. In a way, it was the capstone to a transitional trilogy starting with Changes and working through Ghost Story. The graduation from Chicago into larger, more important things, from seeing the trailing threads of something wider to beginning to see the overarching weave of the fabric.
Specifics:
Spoiler
No, the issue with Molly becoming Winter Lady did not surprise me (mostly because some jerk who is now hogtied in a corner and will not be permitted out of it until a future date spoiled that particular revelation for me), nor does it strike me as an ass pull. It all comes down to what you know, or think you know, of the Fae and of Mab specifically. Where most other people are playing checkers, Mab is playing three dimensional chess. She's playing a very long, very complicated game and I suspect, based on a few things, that she's had her eye on Molly as a possibility if not neccessarily a preferred piece for a long time. Not, maybe, as early as Grave Peril, but certainly at least as early as Proven Guilty. Going back, I think Mab might have had her grabbed just so that she could get a good look at the girl away from prying eyes. I have no doubt that, in the future books, we're going to get a bit of that story from the point of view of Molly herself, learn some of the things that happened off stage.
Similar topic, no, I don't think that the revelation that Winter has been guarding the Gates is a letdown, asspull, or otherwise dissapointment. It makes sense, given what the all but explicit topics of the novel are: mantles, masks, change, and consequences. The Fae may not have been what they are since the beginning, and might even have become this only recently (in cosmic terms), but the simple fact is, I think it's possible, or even likely, that the Fae grew into this role, changed into it, due to some evolution and quirk of history. After all, Kringle/Odin/Vaderrung himself said that it's something that happens all the time. Hell, we watched it happen multiple times (to Harry, to Lily, etc.) now, so why can't it happen to an entire group/species if it can happen to individuals?
In the end, I suspect Mab may have been a mortal or changling who inherited the mantle of Queen after her predecessor went off the reservation, probably due to the Adversary. Mab (or somebody) learned what was going on, that the previous queen was endangering the status of the Outer Gates and either she took the role for herself one Halloween many thousands of years ago, or was thrust into it just like Molly has been now. And now Molly was picked as a replacement for Meave not because the crazy dredlocked psycho was actually a physical danger to Mab herself, but was certainly a danger to her ability to keep the Outsiders out. Putting Molly into that role, even if the girl is inexperienced, terrified, and way out of her league at this point and in extreme danger of becomming another Lily, lets Mab focus on not just putting her own house in order, but in preparing for, as Maeve herself put it, the oncoming Night, which I think has been oncoming for quite a while now.
I very much liked the angle of consequences coming back to bite one in the end. Even if your intentions were good, or even if your actions were the correct ones at the time, the consequences of what you done in the past are not something that you can escape. The consequences of Harry "saving the day" back in book four come roaring back in with a vengeance. Even if he did the right thing, he's getting smacked around by it now if for no other reason than he was sloppy back then. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that Mab and Titania (who, I suspect, might be a lot closer than we're thinking, like mother daughter close, or sisters close) are victims of the consequences of their own actions and the actions of their predecessors so many eons ago.
That's one of the major themes of the series right there for you. Actions have consequences, and just because you meant well doesn't mean you did well, and just because you did well doesn't mean everything will work out well. And as a corrolary, we must live with the fallout of the decisions made by those who have gone before us.
A good book, setting up a lot of things for the next few novels that I hope will pay off.
Last edited by hamlet; 2012-12-03 at 10:47 AM.
It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.
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2012-12-03, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
As I said above, I just finished the fourteenth book of the Dresden Files series, Cold Days.
SpoilerI really liked this book. Much better than Ghost Story, and while Changes is still the ruling masterpiece of messing things up, we did get to know a whole lot of stuff that changed our perspective.
First of all, the purpose of Fae. I can see what people would get annoyed over, and I can even agree that now when Fae are nominally working "for humanity", they might lose a bit of that eerie strangeness that are their signature. I just can't get over the fact that when I read it, it didn't upset me. I might not be more down the line, depending on how things get spun (the series have been known for villain decay), but right now, I'm Okay With This. After all, the Faerie wouldn't want reality (used broadly to encompass both Earth and the Nevernever) destroyed; it's where they keep their stuff.
More annoying is the focus on Outsiders. For one, I don't like the term Outsider, not connected to the representation they were given in the book. Okay, so they live on the other side of this great big gate. What about it? Oh, they want to destroy reality. As opposed to... wherever they live? They seem pretty damn real to me. They just happen to live on the other side of the gate. Since they are hostile and aggressive, of course we have to defend ourselves, but I fail to see what makes Outsiders so alien as they are made out to be. There's just an arbitrary line drawn around Earth + Nevernever.
Second, the aforementioned villain decay. He Who Walks Behind was, for the longest tome, freaking terrifying. I think I even had a nightmare about him once. This new outside, He Who Walks... Before? Really? Anyway, he's a villain of the week. Given that outsiders now come by the dozen, it's much less impressive. I understand that this is justified in that Harry has grown stronger, and it is actually a valid reasoning. Still... eh, I dunno.
What I do know is that I'm not a fan of the adversary. I've seen this in many places. The magical amulet corrupts its wearer. They aren't really themselves, they were being manipulated and influenced. And now this gets applied retroactively to most opponents Harry has fought over the years? I'm sorry, but **** that ****. Making the Outsiders responsible for everything is stupid. I can understand them being the biggest threat right now, but retroactively making them the only threat detracts from those books. It detracts from the realism that Dresden Files none the less has by removing the ability for people to be *******s all on their own. It creates a Sauron.
Or it might. I hope it doesn't. I'll admit, it was pretty well handled in the book. I guess we shall see in the coming ones.
Well, that was a lot of complaints. What was good?
Also a lot. As I've said, just Harry being back is great. Even if he's not in Chicago, he's still on Earth, and he's growing in power all the time. I also liked Molly's transition into Winter Lady. I can't help but imagine how hers and Harry's mantles' instincts will make that particular relationship all the more awkward, provided that Maeve was influenced by her mantle and not just being Maeve. The fight scenes were good, the awesome moments were plentiful and the detective themes were intricate and well handled.
In conclusion, it's easier to criticise than praise, but I really liked the book. I'll think I'll start with the next one right away... oh. Right.Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
Pony avatar by the Great and Powerful DirtyTabs. Lotsa hugs!
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2012-12-03, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
So ah,
-cough-
I appear to have been misinformed.
By the internet, no less.
The next book is not called 'Mirror Mirror'.
The Jim Butcher forums had the following:
So there was a Q&A at the LA signing last night, and one of the last questions he asked led to a bunch of interesting facts, including some lovely information about the next book! (Video here, relevant at 57:51.) (I know he starts off saying 16 in the video, but he corrects himself to 15 at the end.)
First off, the two likely titles:
•Bag Man
•Skin Game
Plot information:
•It's a heist!
•He doesn't outright say so, but the implication is that he's heisting with the Denarians. ("The problem won't really be the heist so much as the people he has to do the heist with. Because this is a book number that's a multiple of five, so the Denarians are back.")
•Michael's likely coming off the bench.
Last edited by Somebloke; 2012-12-03 at 01:48 PM.
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2012-12-03, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Did anyone else catch the various references/callbacks to some of the short stories in Side Jobs? One in particular jumped out at me because of some interesting connotations:
Spoiler
The Venatori, that Thomas is an occasional agent of...it's mentioned in his story that the Fae were a major loss in the Oblivion War, primarily thanks to the publishing of the Grimm stories (that Mab evidently had a hand in). The Fae, Winter in particular, are revealed in this story to be a key element in keeping the entire world from being obliterated. Are the Venatori as good as they believe themselves to be? Or have some of their 'victories' actually made the world worse off, the way it would be if the Fae had been exterminated? Are any of the prisoners of Demonreach casualties of the Oblivion War, either because they lost or because the Venatori won and removed the only thing keeping them in check?
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-12-03, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerThe way I read it was that the forces at the Outer Gates were pretty much their own separate organization. Any losses the Fae might have suffered would have been to their local, Earthbound forces. Given that those forces were described as significantly smaller than those at the Outer Gates, I don't think there was any risk of the lines breaking due to that, even if it of course hurts Winter as a whole. Particularly when you consider that Summer seems to reinforce the Outer Gates forces, at least in certain areas.Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
Pony avatar by the Great and Powerful DirtyTabs. Lotsa hugs!
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2012-12-03, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerSo. I've been thinking.
Molly as the new Winter Lady.
Ummmmmm....
Will she get the Same Induction Ceremony with Mab that Harry got?
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2012-12-03, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Spoiler
The Venatori were trying to wipe out all Fae, though, not just Winter - the way It's My Birthday Too presented it, the key element was that causing mortals to forget they ever existed would weaken or destroy them - old gods and demons, but the Fae apparently followed similar enough rules that they needed the G-Men to save them.
Besides, Maeve as Winter Queen would have had the authority to call forces off the Gates back to Earth, so they can't be entirely separate groups.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-12-03, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerDoubtful. Doing so would imply that Maeve had to go through that too, and since she's Mab's biological daughter...
It might only be standard procedure for Knights. In fact, do we even know if it is?
Given what Maeve said in her last battle with Harry, however, I'm inclined to believe the UST between Molly and Harry is going to grow significantly. We don't know how much of Maeve's behaviour was her mantle and how much was just Maeve, but she had been the Lady for a long time.Last edited by Weimann; 2012-12-03 at 04:03 PM.
Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
Pony avatar by the Great and Powerful DirtyTabs. Lotsa hugs!
Scourge Caste avatar by the illustrious Akrim.elf. Thank you!
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2012-12-03, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
Pony avatar by the Great and Powerful DirtyTabs. Lotsa hugs!
Scourge Caste avatar by the illustrious Akrim.elf. Thank you!
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2012-12-03, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Is there any need to put everything in spoilers? I'd think anyone in this topic would have read the book.
I can understand there being spoilers when there were books available despite it not being officially released yet, but it seems unnecessary at this point...and makes it annoying to read through messages when I have to open up every single spoiler box.
Anyway, having just finished, I'll say this was significantly better than Ghost Story. Looking forward to the next one, hope we don't have another 16-month wait. (which, to be fair, is a lot better than, say, A Song of Ice and Fire)
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2012-12-03, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
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2012-12-03, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Wish we had just put "spoilers" in the topic title to save ourselves the trouble...
Anyway! I happened to look at Amazon and see it's currently the #51 bestselling book. Anyone happen to know what its peak was?Last edited by Lord Seth; 2012-12-03 at 11:38 PM.
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2012-12-04, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerYou're thinking of Backup. It's My Birthday Too was with Thomas and the LARPers.
And unless some of the older gods or demons were actively protecting humanity in some way, it's probably no loss for humanity to forget them. (Actually, wouldn't it be ironic if the previous defenders of the Gates we accidentally neutralized by the Oblivion War, forcing Winter to step in and help? But that's probably too convoluted a plot twist even for uncle Jim.)Awesome fremetar by wxdruid.
From the discomfort of truth there is only one refuge and that is ignorance. I do not need to be comfortable, and I will not take refuge. I demand to *know*.
So I guess I have an internets? | And a trophy. | And a music cookie (whatever that is).
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2012-12-04, 04:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Thoughts, on Winter, and Dames:
SpoilerThough having Winter bear the brunt of the Outsider attacks does feel oddly lopsided, it does explain one thing very clearly: why the Unseelie Accords would be called the Unseelie Accords, and why it would be Mab of all people who would call together the various supernatural forces and get them to agree to a peace treaty of sorts. She did it so she and the world could (mostly) focus on the Outsiders.
And, yeah... far too much ogling going on here. I suppose it was to showcase the struggle of controlling the animalistic tendencies of winterfae, but I lost count of all the references to sex. In the first chapter alone we have Sarissa and Mab. Then Maeve naked soon after that, then miscellaneous fae women, then Sarissa again, then Andi naked, and Lily is attractive, and Maeve again, and he wants to take Molly, and also Murphy, there's a joke about nakedness with Lacuna the Hook Knight, more Murphy, and Harry ends up naked at the end just to cap it all off.
Also perhaps a little too much 'Harry summons something, it kicks his ass'.
Besides that, a passable entry to the series. Felt like it was retreading a lot of ground from Summer Knight, but it got some things out of the way so the series can move on.Last edited by SmartAlec; 2012-12-04 at 04:36 AM.
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2012-12-04, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-12-04, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerActually, I felt that, though there was a lot of it, it all had a point and was done as tastefully as that particular topic could. It was about lust and about the part of all of us that drives competition, consumption, and aggression. It is present in all of us (and we know from the books well prior to the time of Harry taking on the mantle that it's present in him), but in this instance, it's enhanced and he has to learn all over again, just as we all did (hopefully) in our teenage years, how to control it.
If Summer is compassion, the warmth and growth and life of Nature, then Winter, by it's nature, involves some of the more predatory and aggressive aspects, and thus it's going to come up when we jump off the deep end into the Winter Court.
Plus, as far as Maeve . . . well Little Miss Spanglecrotch is just freakin' insane, so you can't quite attribute anything she does to rationality can you?It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.
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2012-12-04, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
On Mac:
SpoilerI'm almost completely certain he's Merlin. I'm unsure on him not being human. He seems too aware of, and in-touch with, the human condition to be something not human. The short warning speech he gives Harry in Changes feels very human. Mac feels like a guy who's Been There, Done That.
The idea of Mac-as-Merlin makes me think of what Harry could end up being. Stubborn, tough, but burned-out. He's fought a long war and spent most of his life trying to keep people safe. His friends all died along the way. He erected the Sanctum under the island in Lake Michigan as his final act, and then retired nearby in Chicago and opened a bar. When he says, 'I'm out,' that's what he means. 'I've done enough; I'm empty inside. I'm tired. Someone else can fight the fight now'. He just wants to run his bar and be left alone and to not talk to anyone.
But because of his titanic efforts in preserving the world, major supernatural creatures have included his bar in the Unseelie Accords as neutral ground. It's the least they could do for him to try and make sure he got a peaceful retirement.Last edited by SmartAlec; 2012-12-04 at 09:19 AM.
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2012-12-04, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Finally finished. Not as good as the better books, not as bad as the worse books.
On cat and mouse.
SpoilerOr, rather, Cat and Mouse. Am I the only one who is disappointed that Cat Sith and Mouse never fought, or were never even in the same scene together?
Cat: "I am the King Cat, I do not fear mice."
Dresden: "Oh yeah? This mouse is actually a dog."
I also imagined Kringle to be...Better? Is that the right word? Something about him disappoints me. I also feel like him being Vadderung is kind of a cop-out. As I distinctly remember very early in the first book Dresden mentions that Santa is a very powerful Fae...And I really wish that was the case, at least some kind of Winter King, in the way that Mab is the Queen.
I liked the Eldest Gruff cameo, that was fun.
From his initial description in this particular book, I thought the Gatekeeper might be Merlin - but he wasn't.
I was also under the impression from somewhere that we would see Ferrovax again in this book. Where did I get that from?
The amount of sex and sex-related sentences in this book annoyed me, even moreso than the pop culture references of the last book.
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2012-12-04, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Spoiler
That irony is sort of what I was getting at. The Venatori keep their war secret, meaning they don't talk to anyone ever. Which means they wouldn't know the Fae were crucial to protecting the Gates, and almost inadvertently doomed reality by wiping them out. So it has to be wondered how much damage, if any, their good intentions have caused before or after that.
Utterly random idea, with no backing except it'd be funny and in-character for the author and character:
Spoiler
So Maggie lives with the Carpenters. At some point, maybe even now, she'd want to know where her parents were or what happened to him.
Can you imagine Molly (pre-Cold Days) telling her that the Winter Knight killed her father?
Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-12-04 at 10:38 AM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-12-04, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
_______________________________________________
"When Boba Fett told Darth Vader, "As you wish," what he meant was, "I love you.""
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2012-12-04, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
On the character you thought might appear:
SpoilerThere was a lot of fan speculation on who the 'immortal' Mab would get Harry to kill was, when the dust jacket blurb became known. Many were expecting it to be Ferrovax, through process of elimination. Faulty process, as it turns out. Maybe you caught a bit of that?
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2012-12-05, 01:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
Ok, I finished this book a few days ago, so the following reaction is somewhat muted from what it was originally.
SpoilerHOLY GOD DAMN MOTHER****ING ****
But also,
SpoilerThis book was difficult. I loved the amount of Thomas in the book, since I missed him in Ghost Story, but I'm putting this book in the same category of Changes. Lots and lots of stuff happened that is very very important, and we learned even more of a lot of stuff, but it's not that good a reread. It's not as WHAM! the following times, and not good enough without the WHAM!
So many new areas for wild speculation and no time to comment. One bit though, it doesn't really make sense to me that Molly would be a "vessel of faerie"... but I haven't read Summer Knight in a while so I could be mistaken about the qualifications.
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2012-12-05, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
SpoilerTo me it seems the qualification for "vessel of faerie" is just having dealth with the fae to some extent. While Lily chose to become Fae when she accepted the mantle of the Summer Lady, Sarissa had actively chosen to be mortal, but still was able to become the new Summer Lady, because she was around the Fae a lot. Same for Molly and the Winter Lady mantle.CEO of Evil Incorporated: "Subjugating humanity for a better tomorrow."
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2012-12-05, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.
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2012-12-05, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-12-05, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dresden Files: Winter is coming
It's easy to miss. But, IMO, a bit critical.
Actually, that kind of describes so very much of the series in a nutshell: "easy to miss, but critical."
SpoilerLike how there's a chance that Harry has been infected by Nemesis/The Adversarysince, at the very least, Bianca's party way back in book 3 maybe. Possibly since his time with Justin du Morne.It doesn't matter what game you're playing as long as you're having fun.