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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    That last comment really elevated Roy's position in my eyes. I've never disliked him, but not much of a fan either.
    Brewing a new setting (3.5 ed D&D). The setting is complete and ready to play.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoC175 View Post
    Unlikely. He has nowhere near enough hp to survive the half damage from both V's and M's spells you suggest (assuming he saves against both)
    Assuming they hit. Both are touch spells, I believe, and require a successful attack roll.
    Last edited by Fish; 2012-08-10 at 12:26 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    There's one thing I don't understand. Why can Nale cast spells and not Z?

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    20% chance of spell failure for deafness. Nale's dice like him better, at the moment, than Zz'dtri's dice like him.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LordofNaught View Post
    This of course does not take Malack or Quarr into account because of of them being behind a solid metal wall, and there's a chance Quarr got banished too.
    It's possible, but I think unlikely. Qarr (note spelling -- there's no U in his name) probably has more things to do in upcoming strips. But there's also the line of effect rules that may come into play. You do not have to hear the Holy Word to be banished by it, but you probably have to be in the line of effect of the spell. In an actual game, that would be the DM's call.

    Malack may also have been affected by the Holy Word, but that remains to be seen since the Giant seems to want us to keep guessing at his alignment. When the reveal finally comes, its going to be amazing.
    Malack may not be Evil, but he's definitely not Good. So he'd be subject to the Holy Word if he could actually hear it. Unlikely that he can on the other side of that door. And even if he could, there's also the level effect. He could be the same level as Tarquin, so it wouldn't damage him at all.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by silvadel View Post
    Here is something kind of odd with tarquin...

    Elan wouldnt accept the ring of regeneration because he was really worried about where it came from.... BUT

    If circumstances had instead come down to defeating Tarquin and looting his stuff, the OOTS would have no compunctions about using items based on where they came from.
    Elan is taking a very extreme Good position that he might be encouraging Tarquin to make other evil acts by accepting the ring. It is an argument of ambiguous value, but it is not ridiculous in the least.

    However, taking stuff from a defeated enemy is seizing and re-purposing the benefits the evildoer presumably intended only for himself. It is unlikely that the moral voices in OotS (Elan, Roy, Durkon) would bother to overthink to the point of "hey, what if this evil guy did evil to acquire this item, so we could loot it?"

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I love it when a plan comes together.
    And seriously "It's not a bug, it's a feature" is now one of my favourite quotes.
    The grin emoticon describes my state of being so well right now.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-08-10 at 01:39 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    It's damn satisfying to see things go so well for the Order, it's been way too long since they had any meaningful successes (beating up desert raiders doesn't count). I'm fully aware that things will no doubt go belly up sooner than later, but still, I'm savouring every moment of it while it lasts. :D

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    What about sorcerous arrows?
    How about sorcerous sword-wielding arrows?
    Hey, what's wrong with an ordinary sword-wielding arrow?
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    I don't know if anybody else in this thread mentioned it, but her 'forever' made me think she was worried about not coming back. Does the IFC know she was/is more loyal to Nale than to them? Is he worried about being punished?
    I think it's also been more or less blatantly telegraphed that Tarquin and Malack intend to kill Nale as soon as he's outlived his usefulness to them -- they've had regular references to "the usual protocols", Tarquin telling Malack to look forward to the end of the mission, etc.

    Nale has higher intelligence, but Sabine seems to have more wisdom (which is used for sense motive and such), so I wouldn't be surprised if she picked up on this and he didn't.

    She might also be worried about having him alone with Quarr, given their last conversation. The imp could say all sorts of things to him.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-08-10 at 01:57 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Am I the only one seeing the humor in Belkar yelling to Roy about a supposed silence spell. If you were affected by silence, Roy would not be able hear you Belkar...

    Sometimes our resident hafling psychopath fails to think things through

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    ...I think that this strip is the first time that Eugene Greenhilt would not have anything bad to say about Roy having an MBA.
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  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiander View Post
    Am I the only one seeing the humor in Belkar yelling to Roy about a supposed silence spell. If you were affected by silence, Roy would not be able hear you Belkar...

    Sometimes our resident hafling psychopath fails to think things through
    ain't exactly the sharpest cookie in the tackle box.
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ramspite View Post
    D&D is a sword and sorcery game, it has, and will, never bother with the flight time of arrows, or of coconut laden african swallows.
    True. Which is why the rule SHOULD be that ranged weapons have ranges appropriate to light scirmishing combat. AKA at most two increments for things like bows. It's simpler than the current rule, and gives better results.

    I'd probably actually go for even shorter range than than, something like full effect up to 30' (sneak attack maximum range), and attack at a substantial penalty up to 100' or so (reasonable maximum for light skirmishers vs. other light skirmishers) and end up with 4th edition type ranges.

    That way the ranged fast movers don't completely dominate in outdoor combat to the extent that it might as well be a different game.

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    True. Which is why the rule SHOULD be that ranged weapons have ranges appropriate to light scirmishing combat. AKA at most two increments for things like bows. It's simpler than the current rule, and gives better results.

    I'd probably actually go for even shorter range than than, something like full effect up to 30' (sneak attack maximum range), and attack at a substantial penalty up to 100' or so (reasonable maximum for light skirmishers vs. other light skirmishers) and end up with 4th edition type ranges.

    That way the ranged fast movers don't completely dominate in outdoor combat to the extent that it might as well be a different game.
    Eh, I don't know. Why shouldn't they? What's wrong with having a certain character archetype shine some of the time?
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Eh, I don't know. Why shouldn't they? What's wrong with having a certain character archetype shine some of the time?
    Because the best practitioners are almost all flying monsters or teleporting outsiders who can strike from beyond the PCs maximum effective reach.

    The problem is that if the monsters exist then they should completely dominate the world given that archery is effective against single targets at a third of a mile. Look at Erinyes for example.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    If Belkar was hiding in the trapdoor and was affected by the Holy Word, where do you suppose the Order is keeping Mr. Scruffy? The cat has 4 1/2 HD at most, and that's instakill territory for Holy Word. Maybe he's with Elan.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    If Belkar was hiding in the trapdoor and was affected by the Holy Word, where do you suppose the Order is keeping Mr. Scruffy? The cat has 4 1/2 HD at most, and that's instakill territory for Holy Word. Maybe he's with Elan.
    Bag of Holding with a bottle of air?
    Or maybe, maybe Mr. Scuffy is More Than He Appears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Because the best practitioners are almost all flying monsters or teleporting outsiders who can strike from beyond the PCs maximum effective reach.

    The problem is that if the monsters exist then they should completely dominate the world given that archery is effective against single targets at a third of a mile. Look at Erinyes for example.
    That's what fly spells are for. Or break out a bow yourself. A good Strength bow is pretty cheap and a full BAB type who hasn't actually tanked his Dex should be able to hit things while not as good as a dedicated archer at least half decently. All that strength means it will hurt when it hits.
    You're not playing to your strengths, but then neither is an archer in a crowded hall way, all those soft cover untyped bonuses to AC add up fast, or a Medium mounted character just about anywhere but an open plain.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoC175 View Post
    Unlikely. He has nowhere near enough hp to survive the half damage from both V's and M's spells you suggest (assuming he saves against both)
    Save vs. disintegrate knocks damage all the way down to 5d6, not half (it would be 30d6 or more if the save was failed given V's known minimum level).

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    If Belkar was hiding in the trapdoor and was affected by the Holy Word, where do you suppose the Order is keeping Mr. Scruffy? The cat has 4 1/2 HD at most, and that's instakill territory for Holy Word.


    ...I can see Belkar going into Rage and getting himself killed over this.
    Last edited by Emperordaniel; 2012-08-10 at 04:28 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I think the chances that Roy's plan resulted in Durkon accidentally killing Mr. Scruffy are very, very slim.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Best one in a while.

    And y'know, I feel kinda bad for Sabine and Nale.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tragic_Comedian View Post
    Best one in a while.

    And y'know, I feel kinda bad for Sabine and Nale.
    Yes, they are both evil and she is Evil, but that doesn't mean they don't love each other.
    It's very sweet actually.
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  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Don't post here often, but this was another really great strip.

    In the movie playing in my mind, the deafness in this scene is similar to the beginning of Saving Private Ryan, where Captain Miller is temporarily dazed by an exploding shell. Wooziness, ears ringing, complete shellshock. No wonder Nale can't think straight.

    Just my $0.02.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Bag of Holding with a bottle of air?
    Or maybe, maybe Mr. Scuffy is More Than He Appears.

    That's what fly spells are for. Or break out a bow yourself. A good Strength bow is pretty cheap and a full BAB type who hasn't actually tanked his Dex should be able to hit things while not as good as a dedicated archer at least half decently. All that strength means it will hurt when it hits.
    You're not playing to your strengths, but then neither is an archer in a crowded hall way, all those soft cover untyped bonuses to AC add up fast, or a Medium mounted character just about anywhere but an open plain.
    Fly! PLEASE try to fly! I mentioned Erinyes as a CR 8 example.

    Waste those actions and spells! And it is pure waste, they have fast flight and GREATER TELEPORT at will. You will NEVER catch one in the open. And their default equipment includes a +5 strength bonus composite longbow +1 flaming. They do MORE damage with a bow than any but the most specialized archers at level 8, they are more mobile out of the box than is POSSIBLE for level 8, and they have DR/Good which you probably can't bypass with a ranged attack. And if your party is somehow "winning" they teleport away.

    It shoots three arrows per turn for an average damage on a hit of 14 (without including crits).

    I can find other examples at other levels. There are monsters that are BETTER at this than a PC, enough better to be a serious threat of a TPK EVEN if the party has a dedicated archer and is at the same level (so they actually nominally outgun it 4:1). Because the CR rather obviously expects the creature to have to close at some point, and on an open plain (common terrain in the real world) there's no reason to close and you outrange the casters.

    DougL

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    Roy may not know it's Tarquin, but he has good reason to suspect it is: the unknown fighter is much, much more powerful than the "leader" Nale, yet does not wish his identity known. That's Tarquin's standard shtick, the power behind the throne.
    The Order has had no indication of Tarquin's leadership abilities since he has not been shouting. They have no reason to suspect it is him yet.

    Nale may wonder if Sabine abandoned him; he didn't hear her say "I love you ... forever" nor his father's explanation of her banishment.
    He saw her disappear forecefully. She can only plane shift or teleport elsewhere. This was unlike either of those. He won't she abandoned him.
    [/QUOTE]
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    @Doug Lampert:
    OK, we're getting way off topic, so I'll drop it, but I don't see how Greater Teleport wouldn't stop it from getting away even if you reduced bows to 'skirmish range'.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    The Order has had no indication of Tarquin's leadership abilities since he has not been shouting. They have no reason to suspect it is him yet.
    [/QUOTE]

    The presence of Kilkil?

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikhailangelo View Post
    The presence of Kilkil?
    We don't know if they have spotted Kilkil though. Before the smoke he was behind Nale, Sabine and Tarquin. Maybe they spotted him 50+ feet away, but we have no indication if they have or not. Nor do we know if Durkon caught Kilkil's voice among all the clamor when the smoke bomb went off.

    There is a good chance they didn't recognize Kilkil and thus may not know about Tarquin yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk Monk View Post
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    The Order has had no indication of Tarquin's leadership abilities since he has not been shouting. They have no reason to suspect it is him yet.
    Except Durkon, who is standing as close to him as Nale is.

    Admittedly, Durkon is less likely to figure it out than Roy, but I'd still say that if Roy hasn't figured it out yet, he will by the end of this battle.
    LGBTitP

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

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