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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    To the mother dragon- immediately after doing it:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html
    Calling that "bragging" is an incredibly loose interpretation of the word.
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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    To the mother dragon- immediately after doing it:

    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html
    Oh, ok. Wanted to make sure it was just that, and nothing relevant had actually been said. Gloating about a mistake before one realizes it IS a mistake is entirely immaterial. Of COURSE V would gloat about it then, he very clearly wasn't thinking things through.

    If he had actually gloated about it to Haley or Roy or -anyone once he came to his senses- then that would actually go to prove what Kish is apparently trying to prove. However, as I recall, he has maintained a shamed silence as to the entire affair.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Actually, it matters because the spell has the [language dependent] tag.
    Ding ding ding! We have a winner:

    A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or cannot hear what the caster of a language-dependant spell says the spell fails.
    However, the deafness won't last long, and then Durkon might be in trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Oh, ok. Wanted to make sure it was just that, and nothing relevant had actually been said. Gloating about a mistake before one realizes it IS a mistake is entirely immaterial.
    It would be nice if you would bother to read my post, instead of just chanting, "Mistake mistake mistake."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

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    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    I took the fact that her final words in the strip weren't in a speech bubble to mean that they were basically just an echo of her voice.
    This. The way the text is displayed is analogous to sound effects (splorch) and background noise (rumble), so it probably came out like a whisper/echo, not understood by anyone. I doubt Tarquin would be focussing on the whispers from an unseen succi when the party is under attack.

  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?

    It's possible, if Nale thinks back on the event later when he gets a more quiet moment, that he could puzzle out what her lips were saying.

    But perhaps I'm being a bit too charitable. After all, I can't wait for the entire LG to kick the bucket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    If he had actually gloated about it to Haley or Roy or -anyone once he came to his senses- then that would actually go to prove what Kish is apparently trying to prove. However, as I recall, he has maintained a shamed silence as to the entire affair.
    Will this do?

    Here's V, standing in front of Inky, wearing one of her very very few [satisfied?] smiles, explaining that she "vanquished the dragon." Should you doubt that she is gloating here, compare her gloating to Roy and Miko about her previous accomplishments in dragon-slaying. Note also that she said this line after losing Haerta due to Inky's shock to her mental system.

    Oh, and Kish? Next time find your own citations.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-08-16 at 05:39 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoul-n View Post
    Why do you all hate V so much
    I don't hate V. I just think that her value to the party has declined drastically from the moment s/he/it ran away at Azure City. The feedback loop of his mental problems interfering with her performance, which increases its mental problems, has about rendered all of the above useless...and absent.
    Last edited by stsasser; 2012-08-16 at 05:47 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Will this do?

    Here's V, standing in front of Inky, wearing one of her very very few [satisfied?] smiles, explaining that she "vanquished the dragon."
    Uuuuh... no? That is VERY much not "after he came to his senses." He didn't truly consider the gravity of his actions until about here, and even then it is unclear whether V is forlorn over casting familicide itself, or in blowing his chance to end Xykon by not approaching the problem intelligently.

    Actually, let me talk a bit over familicide itself. I think most everyone agrees that Familicide is a terrible, terrible spell and would still be so even if it did nothing BUT kill Black Dragons.

    However, a lot of people are taking that and applying it against V incorrectly. V lives in OOTSland, a land where Goblins are farmed for XP by PC races, where kobalds can and will be slaughtered with nothing but a bounty on their head, and where Dragons are "color coded for your convenience!" to let you know if you can kill them or not. Even snapping a demon's neck while helpless and imprisoned doesn't get so much as a bat of the eye from a Paladin-jailer because, hey, its a demon

    The world of OOTS is very explicitly set up to follow and subvert D&D conventions and I hope and expect V to slowly come to realize how incorrect these conventions are... however what I -don't- accept is this bizarre hatred of V for following the rules and conventions of the whole bloody setting.

    Yes, V was wrong. No, I don't think V realizes that killing only Dragons would still have been wrong, and no I don't think it is reasonable to expect V to realize that.

    To parallel with the real world slightly... there are a number of cultures that do a number of things which I disagree with, and I will be very vocal in my disagreeance. However, I don't consider everyone in that culture evil hideous people for behaving in a way which their culture has taught them is ok, I consider them human beings. I will disagree and try and rationally tell them why I think they're wrong, but I won't condemn them for acting exactly as they have been trained to act every moment of their life up until that point.
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  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I hope the other mummies weren't destroyed by the Holy Word, but rather fell in another pit and on top of V, either crushing or mummy rotting the prick.
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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Actually, it matters because the spell has the [language dependent] tag.
    That's what I said, more or less.
    Last edited by Emperordaniel; 2012-08-16 at 09:22 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoul-n View Post
    Why do you all hate V so much
    Thank you so much for waking up the V hatedom

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    Default Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?

    The kobold goes first.
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    Thank you so much for waking up the V hatedom
    Seconded. Regardless of one's feelings about Vaarsuvius, I'd hoped that debating hir morality had settled down for the moment.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Seconded. Regardless of one's feelings about Vaarsuvius, I'd hoped that debating hir morality had settled down for the moment.
    Rumor has it the next Kickstarter Stretch Goal was going to be new, numbered smilies for facilitating intractable forum debates, e.g. "HateVaarsuviusReasonNumber17", "MikoMorallyJustifiedReason6".

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorator View Post
    The thread on the subject says she's at least 15th level, yes (she has Improved Precise Shot).

    Also, the bow is +5 icy burst, so you can bump that up a bit. Nice estimate, on the whole.
    It's interesting that the linked page shows her passing up a bow with the seeking enchantment, which would have negated the miss chance from the smoke, with the reasoning that "she has a feat that can do most of that already."

    I wonder what that feat is and if it doesn't work against smoke.

  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by glissle View Post
    It's interesting that the linked page shows her passing up a bow with the seeking enchantment, which would have negated the miss chance from the smoke, with the reasoning that "she has a feat that can do most of that already."
    Probably Improved Precise Shot, which negates the penalties for shooting into anything other than *total* cover or concealment.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    I still think that it's possible that Malack and Qarr wereoutside the area of affect of the spell, and also possible, though less likely, that the mummies were, too.
    There is also a fair chance that the mummies will be vaporized by traps a little further down the corridor. These seem to be unintelligent undead, so without Malack to instruct them, a single trap could destroy each in turn, without the mummies bothering to learn from the annihilation of their comrade immediately before them.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    However, the deafness won't last long, and then Durkon might be in trouble.
    The usual ruling would be that if the Suggestion is not understood by the target, the target does not comply. And it is one single suggestion, limited to a sentence or two. Nale already tried to make his suggestion, and further input to Belkar is irrelevant.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    However, the deafness won't last long, and then Durkon might be in trouble.
    The usual ruling would be that if the Suggestion is not understood by the target, the target does not comply. And it is one single suggestion, limited to a sentence or two. Nale already tried to make his suggestion, and further input to Belkar is irrelevant.

    This is an area where the Giant sometimes bends the rules, which is okay because it is a topic that is (A) funny, and (B) often accidentally (or on purpose) misplayed at the table.

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    Default Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?

    Anyone else a bit creeped out by that line? From a mortal it would be an expression of devotion but from a fiend it sounds more like a euphemism for what is going to happen to his soul when it inevitably winds up in the lower planes...

    This is the same couple who saw betraying and ritually sacrificing someone as a romantic evening, after all

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    The shift in perspective is kinda awesome! In any earlier confrontation we as the Order preparing for stuff (or not) and then getting surprised / ambushed by the enemy. Now we see the "enemy" in the Order's place and they are doing the ambushing.

    It feels pretty unusual, but as I suddenly feel sorry for Sabine and Nale after I pretty much despised them every time they showed themselves before.. It works very good.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snails View Post
    The usual ruling would be that if the Suggestion is not understood by the target, the target does not comply. And it is one single suggestion, limited to a sentence or two. Nale already tried to make his suggestion, and further input to Belkar is irrelevant.

    This is an area where the Giant sometimes bends the rules, which is okay because it is a topic that is (A) funny, and (B) often accidentally (or on purpose) misplayed at the table.
    The reason for my worry is that, though Belkar can't hear Nale's commands, his eyes show that he's still under the compulsion. So once he can hear again it may take effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The reason for my worry is that, though Belkar can't hear Nale's commands, his eyes show that he's still under the compulsion. So once he can hear again it may take effect.
    I'm pretty sure that just shows that Belkar failed his save, to make it clear WHY the spell failed. I don't foresee Rich blatently violating the rules in multiple places just to drive the plot :P
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The reason for my worry is that, though Belkar can't hear Nale's commands, his eyes show that he's still under the compulsion. So once he can hear again it may take effect.
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read the SRD description of Suggestion is that the caster gets only one shot to make the suggestion understood, but if it is understood then the victim may spend the entire duration of the spell behaving as suggested. I don't think the duration (1hr/lvl) allows new suggestions later.

    On the other hand, Nale clearly disagrees with me, as he repeats the command to Belkar.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    [..]

    I don't foresee Rich blatently violating the rules in multiple places just to drive the plot :P
    Is that irony?
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by raymundo View Post
    Is that irony?
    No it isn't. Rich doesn't let the rules bind him, but he doesn't outright violate them either. In the entire comic, he only ever breaks the rules when he:

    A) Forgets about the specifics and doesn't look them up
    B) Runs into an extremely specific and small rule which he doesn't end up following as it is somewhat counter-intuitive.

    This is neither scenario.
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    No it isn't. Rich doesn't let the rules bind him, but he doesn't outright violate them either. In the entire comic, he only ever breaks the rules when he:

    A) Forgets about the specifics and doesn't look them up
    B) Runs into an extremely specific and small rule which he doesn't end up following as it is somewhat counter-intuitive.

    This is neither scenario.
    C) Breaks the rules/inserts house rules to make the comic funny.

    Exhibit A: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html, and the following panel, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    No it isn't. Rich doesn't let the rules bind him, but he doesn't outright violate them either. In the entire comic, he only ever breaks the rules when he:

    A) Forgets about the specifics and doesn't look them up
    B) Runs into an extremely specific and small rule which he doesn't end up following as it is somewhat counter-intuitive.

    This is neither scenario.
    "extremely specific", "small rule" is kinda subjective.

    But you do think Belkar still being "open for Suggestions" after he re-gained his hearing would blatantly violate the rules? Or did I get that backwards?
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    No it isn't. Rich doesn't let the rules bind him, but he doesn't outright violate them either. In the entire comic, he only ever breaks the rules when he:

    A) Forgets about the specifics and doesn't look them up
    B) Runs into an extremely specific and small rule which he doesn't end up following as it is somewhat counter-intuitive.

    This is neither scenario.
    Having Belkar's eyes turn spiral-y and glow with Nale's magic aura yet having it turn out the spell simply didn't work at all would violate the comic's internal logic (that altered eyes equals an enchantment spell was successfully cast and affected the target). I think the comic's own internal logic and consistency is more important than the game rules.

    Of course, the comic's internal logic can always be violated for the sake of comedy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

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