OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

[raymundo]

I don't know if this is still debated, but the spell did work. Belkar stopped stabbing him (I mean, this alone should be proof enough something manipulated him) and his eyes were all swirly.

The only question remaining is: If Nale utters another command after they regain hearing, will it count as a Suggestion? Rules say no, apparently, but it might be a neat twist. Though it won't happen, seeing as several people have already pointed it out and the Giant will just start his reality warping machine to make the story be something else anyway.

[EmperorSarda]

I don't know if this is still debated, but the spell did work. Belkar stopped stabbing him (I mean, this alone should be proof enough something manipulated him) and his eyes were all swirly.

Except Belkar stabbed Nale in the foot and in the last panel there are a couple of slashes. So no, Belkar didn't stop attacking Nale.

[raymundo]

Except Belkar stabbed Nale in the foot and in the last panel there are a couple of slashes. So no, Belkar didn't stop attacking Nale.

Well.. I never claimed he didn't proceed the stabby goodness ;) I was talking about panels 10 and 11, Belkar stopped stabbing without any good reason (and actually seems to have been knocked back).

Well, there probably is a point in saying it was Nale's round and that is why he didn't keep stabbin'.

[willpell]

I hope to see this exchange after the Linear Guild is mopped up:

"Good work, Belkar!"
"Wow, Roy, I don't think you've ever said that."
"And I probably never will again, so enjoy it like it's your last birthday cake."

[FujinAkari]

C) Breaks the rules/inserts house rules to make the comic funny.

Exhibit A: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html, and the following panel, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html

I'm pretty sure that is a documented case where Rich forgot the specifics of Control Weather, then had to explain it in the next comic after the forums exploded.

"extremely specific", "small rule" is kinda subjective.

But you do think Belkar still being "open for Suggestions" after he re-gained his hearing would blatantly violate the rules? Or did I get that backwards?

Yes, the wording of Suggestion very clearly states only a single suggestion can be made, and the comic has already abided by that back when V used it on the YBD.

[Kish]

Rich has always been very blunt about having no interest in the strict letter of D&D rules. He did not "have to" explain anything, he chose to have Thor announce a similar disregard for said rules.

(And there is certainly no indication anywhere that Rich "forgot" the specifics of Control Weather.)

Yes, people on the forums complain whenever anything he does isn't obviously from a D&D book. His response to this started at "I bend the rules when it makes it funny. Accept." very, very early indeed (before strip #50), and has only gotten less conciliatory since then.

[whiteboar]

Sorry, but that sounds like an awesome game, and I would buy it immediately if it came out.

For what it's worth, I don't think the previous poster was impugning your motives or saying that you didn't want to have fun. He was simply pointing out that in this instance, the desire for historical accuracy would necessarily make the game less fun. The same could be said about any damage model that wanted to realistically depict the way wounds affect people- if you used a realistic damage model, everyone in both parties would be incapacitated or dying within two rounds, and would need to rest for about a month to recover from their wounds, making rolls against infection every day. I doubt most people would find this realistic system as fun as the current one.

We actually had that game system. It was TSR's spy game, Top Secret and it blew worse than anything I ever played. It would take an eternity to run a firefight and everyone would die.

[SpacemanSpif]

I'm pretty sure that is a documented case where Rich forgot the specifics of Control Weather, then had to explain it in the next comic after the forums exploded.

While it's perhaps feasible that Rich forgot that Control Weather specifically couldn't cause lightning to strike, it is beyond feasible that he would "forget" that Control Weather can't make a thunder shockwave powerful enough to destroy all those Treants, and yet somehow focused enough that it doesn't destroy any of the commoners in the city, or visibly damage the characters right next to them.

I'll concede that the comic sticks to the rules most of the time; that's clearly true. But it is also true that the rules will not be thrown by the wayside if Rich thinks it'll make for a better joke or story.

Edit: Whoops, funny how one word will reverse the meaning of a sentence.

[Spiral159]

Question: if a GM wanted to go a campaign based off OoTS, would there be two teams of PCs? One for the Order and the other for the Guild, and the GM plays Xykon and everyone else? Or would there only be one team of players controlling the Order while the GM handles everyone else?

[FujinAkari]

I'll concede that the comic sticks to the rules most of the time; that's clearly true. But it is also true that the rules will not be thrown by the wayside if Rich thinks it'll make for a better joke or story.

Yes? Such a point was never in contention...

Question: if a GM wanted to go a campaign based off OoTS, would there be two teams of PCs? One for the Order and the other for the Guild, and the GM plays Xykon and everyone else? Or would there only be one team of players controlling the Order while the GM handles everyone else?

The order are the only PCs, the Linear Guild are NPCs without question.

[Kish]

Question: if a GM wanted to go a campaign based off OoTS, would there be two teams of PCs? One for the Order and the other for the Guild, and the GM plays Xykon and everyone else? Or would there only be one team of players controlling the Order while the GM handles everyone else?

"When it comes to being tagonists, we're more 'an,'"...

Why would you think the group of evil twins who literally exist for nothing but to oppose the strip's protagonists would be PCs?

[stsasser]

"When it comes to being tagonists, we're more 'an,'"...

Why would you think the group of evil twins who literally exist for nothing but to oppose the strip's protagonists would be PCs?

Other than the fact it would be fiendishly complicated and time-consuming, (the sessions would have to be segregated until one party encountered another,) why not?

In fact, why not have three parties of PC's by throwing in Team Evil?

[ti'esar]

Other than the fact it would be fiendishly complicated and time-consuming, (the sessions would have to be segregated until one party encountered another,) why not?

In fact, why not have three parties of PC's by throwing in Team Evil?

If you actually think running PC-versus-PC combat is a good idea...

Well, make sure to tell us how it goes.

[Warren Dew]

Question: if a GM wanted to go a campaign based off OoTS, would there be two teams of PCs? One for the Order and the other for the Guild, and the GM plays Xykon and everyone else? Or would there only be one team of players controlling the Order while the GM handles everyone else?

I think it would be up to the gamesmaster, but the way the comic is written, the Linear Guild seems more composed of NPCs to me.

If you actually think running PC-versus-PC combat is a good idea...

Well, make sure to tell us how it goes.

Speaking from some limited experience, it can be very interesting, but the players don't tend to care for it.

[DreamingDragon]

Consider that the Creator of any work like this,a long narritive story with many subweaving plots,is ultimately a Reporter,and "what happens" IS what happens as the story unfolds.In that This Creator uses the Dungeons and Dragons rules system as a mechanic to govern what can happen within the confines of the World ,and as a long time DnD'er it works well and wonderfully. But its only a reference point,not the world's immutable law.

The Law is ever the Story. What the Story demands,it gets. How un DnD can you get with a Quasi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing? Unless it was in the Abyss or whatever the Chaotic Neutral plane was...But it fit right in!
I tend to agree in his interpretation of the rules when it comes to composing the comic,but the debates they inspire amuse me more!But...let the show go on...

[lio45]

Well, make sure to tell us how it goes.

FWIW, he did already: "fiendishly complicated and time-consuming".

Unless your players have got all the time in the world AND love it when things are complicated, no, it's not a good idea to run PC vs PC combat.

So, we all agree on this...

[ManuelSacha]

I think it's just a faint echo of her voice while she faints away.
The effect isn't there to indicate telepathy.
So no, the poor bastard didn't hear it.

[kickassfrog]

It's possible, if Nale thinks back on the event later when he gets a more quiet moment, that he could puzzle out what her lips were saying.

But perhaps I'm being a bit too charitable. After all, I can't wait for the entire LG to kick the bucket.

Agreed. Especially Nale.

OT, I agree with most of the people in the thread, it was probably just a whisper or an echo.
She may remember she had telepathy later as a throwaway gag.

[Kalrany]

FWIW, he did already: "fiendishly complicated and time-consuming".

Unless your players have got all the time in the world AND love it when things are complicated, no, it's not a good idea to run PC vs PC combat.

So, we all agree on this...

I actually played a game where PC v PC happend: it was no more complicated than the other combat senerios that we encountered. And it was run seperatly until the storylines overlapped. And then we spent several hours trying to destroy eachother. It was messy, but a lot of fun. You really have to have a good DM and need to trust them, though.

It takes forwever to read 17 pages of comments. Aweoms comic -- laughed a lot. :)

[Incom]

Aren't the party that invaded the LG afterlife PCs? They did mention XP...

Someone should have spent money and got their story told for the Kickstarter.

[Kish]

Aren't the party that invaded the LG afterlife PCs? They did mention XP...

Where do you get the idea that caring about XP is a trait limited to PCs?*

*In the no-fourth-wall world of OotS, of course. In anything with a fourth wall, there's no such concept as XP.

[MDay15]

Yes, the wording of Suggestion very clearly states only a single suggestion can be made, and the comic has already abided by that back when V used it on the YBD.

No; V ordered it to stop attacking, then vomit on Belkar, then communicate with the rest of the OOTS.

[Peelee]

No; V ordered it to stop attacking, then vomit on Belkar, then communicate with the rest of the OOTS.

No, V suggested that he perform no actions except those which she explicitly ordered of him. All other orders were covered under the original (and sole) suggestion.

[AbuSpud]

No, V suggested that he perform no actions except those which she explicitly ordered of him. All other orders were covered under the original (and sole) suggestion.

No fair! Denied under the "no wishing for more wishes" clause!

[Water_Bear]

No fair! Denied under the "no wishing for more wishes" clause!

No such rule in D&D 3.5. You can Wish for a Candle of Invocation, use it to call up a Noble Djinn, and demand it give you three Wishes. Then make the third one for another Candle of Invocation. And that's just the most well known Wish Loop.

That said, as a DM I wouldn't let the Suggestion "Follow my orders" to fly, even if it was rules legal. Still, ultimately it's Rich's comic and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be rules legal even in a real game.

[Fitzclowningham]

How does Nale know his father is talking in panel 4? Tarquin is wearing a helmet that covers his mouth and Nale can't hear him.

[factotum]

How does Nale know his father is talking in panel 4? Tarquin is wearing a helmet that covers his mouth and Nale can't hear him.

He might still have enough hearing left to tell somebody is speaking, just not enough to tell what they're saying.

[Boogastreehouse]

How does Nale know his father is talking in panel 4? Tarquin is wearing a helmet that covers his mouth and Nale can't hear him.

He might still have enough hearing left to tell somebody is speaking, just not enough to tell what they're saying.

"What? I can't hear you. Are you even—"

"—talking?"

[willpell]

"What? I can't hear you. Are you even—"

"—talking?"

Perhaps Nale saw Tarquin and Tarquin was moving in a way that suggested speech. Most people do some amount of gesturing (including things like angle of head or position of body, if their hands are full) in conjunction with speech.

[SaintRidley]

"What? I can't hear you. Are you even—"

"—talking?"

to me?

I think that would probably finish it off.