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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Remember, Z's build was optimized for beating V. Granted he can change his spell selection, so that's not a huge advantage, but Z also didn't know that V would be out of commission today, so it'd make logical sense of his spell selection today was focused on an anti-V strategy anyway.
    I would think though that based on how the last fight played out Z would now realize that prepping all his spells just for dealing with V is a losing strategy. Wizard with genius level intellect and all that. And even if Z is still completely focused on fighting V, dominating one of V's allies is a perfectly valid anti-V strategy (and nicely pays V back for doing the same to him in their last fight.) And if nothing else prepping that spell leaves Z with a ready counter-spell option in case V tries to Dominate one of Z's allies again.

    I don't recall what Z's banned schools are, but if he does have access to Enchantment I would be shocked if he hasn't prepped Dominate Person for this fight. And given Belkar's low will save, and the fact that the spell works through a telepathic link and thus will still work despite Belkar being deafened, there's a good chance Belkar is about to switch sides. And with V MIA and Durkon in melee with a powerful opponent, the Order won't have any immediate way to switch him back.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I love both this and the previous strip!

    However the battle ultimately ends up, Roy's initial ambush is nothing short of brilliant: In a matter of moments, he has leveled the playing field -- and more -- to balance out V's absence. And placing Belkar within range of Durkon's Holy Word (and thus giving him resistance/immunity to certain spells) was a masterstroke!


    EDIT: Oh yeah. I absolutely loved Roy's comment at the end. That was a laugh-out-loud moment.




    Quote Originally Posted by Whiffet View Post
    I love how Belkar was put in range on purpose. When I saw the name of the comic, at first I thought it was referring to someone in the LG. The real meaning is better.
    Ditto! It took me a moment to figure out why Belkar couldn't hear Nale, but when I did, I couldn't help but laugh out loud (again).
    Last edited by Martok; 2012-08-10 at 09:04 AM.
    "Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal




  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M.A.D View Post
    What's the range for Haley's arrows, then?
    Longbows have a range of 100 feet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk Monk View Post
    Every time Miko smiles, an angel commits suicide.
    CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD!!! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE!!! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!!!

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DougTheHead View Post
    Her face shone with a life and power that he had seen only a few times on the surface, when she was draining the most powerful or most innocent of her victims. She seemed at ease here in a way she never had on his home plane. Plus, with all the heat, she was wearing very skimpy clothing.

    "Sabine."

    "Welcome home, honey."....
    ^ That was hot. but I have a thing for torture so I can't say much.
    --

    Also, great strip. Wonder where Kilkil's gone.
    ░Avatar altered from sensate's░

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SpacemanSpif View Post
    Nale is level 16, he has at least 8 levels in Sorcerer (casts Dimension Door) and at least 2 levels in Rogue (has Evasion). At most, he has 6 levels in Fighter.
    What would inline mean: He shouldn't be lvl 16, because of 10% XP malus due to violation of multiclassing rules.
    Human = highest class does not count; all other classes shouldn't be more than one level apart.
    With your combo he'd have the 10%malus for at least three level ups, which IMHO forbids a total of 16 levels.
    I think more of 8/4/4 or 8/4/3.
    You know, Nale's "optimized" :D

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielmayer View Post
    What would inline mean: He shouldn't be lvl 16, because of 10% XP malus due to violation of multiclassing rules.
    Human = highest class does not count; all other classes shouldn't be more than one level apart.
    With your combo he'd have the 10%malus for at least three level ups, which IMHO forbids a total of 16 levels.
    What does your humble opinion say about Belkar being level 16?

    (Twelfth level was a barbarian level; Belkar has had the experience point penalty--which is 20%, not 10%--ever since then.)
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-08-10 at 01:00 PM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    such an awesome strip. really one of the better ones

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Anyone else find Sabine's "forever" remark kinda creepy?
    I don't know if anybody else in this thread mentioned it, but her 'forever' made me think she was worried about not coming back. Does the IFC know she was/is more loyal to Nale than to them? Is he worried about being punished?

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Not sure I agree with everyone who thinks Durkon is in a bad spot. He's got smoke for cover, an astronomical armor class and, no doubt, plenty of healing left. Not to mention plot armor against Tarquin specifically (as mentioned earlier in the thread). Even without the plot armor, I'd be surprised if Durkon couldn't go at least a few rounds with Tarquin before being beaten down -- plenty of time for the Roy to drop the next shoe. And Roy's shoes appear to be iron combat boots just now.

    Let's see, if I were Roy, what would I pull out next? Time for the bag of tricks?
    ~Xel

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    Longbows have a range of 100 feet.
    But that's only the first "range increment." An archer can add addiional range increments, up to 10, with a cumulative -2 penalty to attack. So, for example, between 101 and 200 feet, -2; between 201 and 300, -4; etc.

    The Far Shot feat increases the range, as does the distance special property for bows.
    John Ling
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    NOW THAT is how you use friendly fire to your own advantage
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm surprised Rich didn't go with Gustav Wind. Ah, well.

    I wonder how many programmers are going to bookmark this strip.

    Also, as ever, any time Belkar is genuinely smiling, you know some bastardry is going to go down.

    Oh, and "everyone not on the side of the angels" - that's another neat way to allude to alignment ICly.
    Last edited by FlawedParadigm; 2012-08-10 at 09:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I really would rather Tarquin finally just went all George R. R. Martin on Nale.
    That's right - George R. R. Martin; a writer so ruthless, his name is a verb akin to Samuel L. Jackson. Valar morghulis.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It has long been a joke that every bug in Microsoft products was defended by the PR in Microsoft as "it's not a bug, it's a feature" no matter how annoying/dangerous the bug was ("my files disappeared" "It's not a bug, it's a feature: self-cleaning OS!")....
    Indeed.

    When I worked for Coleco, I noticed that ColecoVision game instruction booklets usually ended with something like:

    "The Thrill Of Discovery
    This game has other features and opportunities than those explained in this booklet. Enjoy the thrill of discovery!"

    I don't recall the exact words but it sure was a handy way to explain bugs!
    Last edited by rewinn; 2012-08-10 at 09:41 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xel View Post
    Let's see, if I were Roy, what would I pull out next? Time for the bag of tricks?
    Thumbs up to you, good sir. Bag of tricks, ahoy!
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    Disintegrate. Gust of Wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    …you do understand how stories work, right?
    (Snipped from this post.)

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Here is something kind of odd with tarquin...

    Elan wouldnt accept the ring of regeneration because he was really worried about where it came from.... BUT

    If circumstances had instead come down to defeating Tarquin and looting his stuff, the OOTS would have no compunctions about using items based on where they came from.

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    The best thing to do at this point is isolate Tarquain somehow and take out Z. At the moment Tarquain is the priority threat, but Z still has some chance, however slim, to pull off a successful spell. And I'm willing to bet he has at least one Flesh to Stone on standby, and an anti arrow spell. So at least isolate and/or distract Tarquain, and get rid of the drow.

    This of course does not take Malack or Quarr into account because of of them being behind a solid metal wall, and there's a chance Quarr got banished too. Malack may also have been affected by the Holy Word, but that remains to be seen since the Giant seems to want us to keep guessing at his alignment. When the reveal finally comes, its going to be amazing.

    Oh yes, and this also doesn't take Team Evil into account, because I'm of the opinion that they're already at the Desert Gate. Otherwise we'd already have seen or heard them. Xykon isn't exactly quite when it comes to his spell choices.

    And that's my two cents and such on this. Here's to no wars being born of my post like last time.
    I am the Lord of Naught, the ruler of the empty throne. I rule over nothing, I have nothing. Therefore, what have I to lose?




  17. - Top - End - #257
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    once the fog lifts completely if haley peppers Z with arrows, between that and the 20% spell failure its questionable whether or not Z will even be able to cast at all. and that ignores the possibility of Belkar finishing off nale in the next round and indulging himself in a little wizard killing.
    Quote Originally Posted by theinsulabot;
    so before roland shows up and six guns us all, i would just like to say.....

    six guns is not actually a verb.
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
    1 I do wonder about the last entry in the list of Holy Word effects. Anyone more than 9 levels below the caster's level are "Killed, paralyzed, blinded, deafened". Aren't the last three kind of superfluous? Or do they apply to the spirit of the character in the afterlife?
    It's possible to be immune to death effects, in which case you'd still be paralyzed, blinded, and deafened.
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    He didn't? Remember, he thought he'd sent Vaarsuvius to the Demiplane of Extremely Painful Torture.
    And this is why Qarr has probably been spared by the spell. Zz'dtri will be upset to notice V running around, and realize his familiar has betrayed him.
    Last edited by Fish; 2012-08-10 at 10:41 AM.
    The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Beautiful. Simply beautiful.
    Petition for the Giant to make more "The World" articles!

    He's a suave Amish cyborg who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a manipulative mute safe cracker with the power to see death. They fight crime!

    *facepalm*
    *facedesk*
    *facewall*



  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm pretty sure Roy already knows it's Tarquin, or at least suspects it. He knows that not-thog is:

    1. A human male

    2. Meele focused

    3. High enough level to fight off the entire order

    If he didn't know before, he'll know it now.

    And as for Nale, I predict that he'll be in a bodybag before this arc is done. There's one gate left, and the side-villains are going to be dying like flies to make way for the final battle.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    They're finally learning how to use Belkar
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorSarda View Post
    Longbows have a range of 100 feet.
    That's 1000 feet, you can fire up to 10 increments. And it's 1100 feet for a composite longbow. And it's 1650 feet if you have a feat. And there are magic items that can increase this further.

    3.x ranges were written by someone with no concept of the idea of "flight time". An arrow going a third of a mile would arive several rounds after it was shot, with little or no force behind it, and coming slowly enough that you could see it coming and dodge (assuming that you hadn't just randomly moved out of the way). The maximum effective range against non-massed targets SHOULD be a couple hundred feet at most with maybe another few hundred feet against massed targets, but in D&D land sensible armies should open up at the maximum range they can get line of sight at and count on the odd 20 to actually hit.

  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    My favored turn of events:
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    Dimension Door! ... Ha ha, I escape the...

    Disintegrate!

    Ahhh! Dimension Door!

    (He flees.)

    Ha ha, I escape again from the...

    :malack: Harm!

    AAAAHHH! Dimension Door!

    (He flees again.)

    ...Ha ha, I finally escape again from the...

    Hey, look, it's ... it's ... Blond Guy!

    AAAAIAIAIEIEEE!!
    Unlikely. He has nowhere near enough hp to survive the half damage from both V's and M's spells you suggest (assuming he saves against both)
    Last edited by SoC175; 2012-08-10 at 11:57 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Roy may not know it's Tarquin, but he has good reason to suspect it is: the unknown fighter is much, much more powerful than the "leader" Nale, yet does not wish his identity known. That's Tarquin's standard shtick, the power behind the throne.

    As for thinning the herd, I predict a whole unveiling of betrayals on the side of Team Evil.
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    Tarquin probably won't last past the end of this Gate. If the Star Wars metaphor holds true, he'll save Elan by throwing somebody (probably Xykon) into a shaft, a la Vader and the Emperor.

    Zz'drti will realize Qarr fed him bad coordinates for the Plane of Ranch Dressing.

    Malack may take the opportunity to attack Nale.

    Nale may wonder if Sabine abandoned him; he didn't hear her say "I love you ... forever" nor his father's explanation of her banishment.

    If Xykon dies (as above) and must regenerate again, he'll discover that Redcloak switched the phylactery.

    There are, in short, a great many betrayals on the boil.
    The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.

  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoC175 View Post
    Unlikely. He has nowhere near enough hp to survive the half damage from both V's and M's spells you suggest (assuming he saves against both)
    Harm doesn't kill.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Did the Holy Word destroy the mummies we saw in 858? They don't appear to be a factor in 860.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    "Opportunities to do good are everywhere but the darkness is where the light needs to be".

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  28. - Top - End - #268
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    BlackDragon

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    cool Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    That's 1000 feet, you can fire up to 10 increments. And it's 1100 feet for a composite longbow. And it's 1650 feet if you have a feat. And there are magic items that can increase this further.

    3.x ranges were written by someone with no concept of the idea of "flight time". An arrow going a third of a mile would arive several rounds after it was shot, with little or no force behind it, and coming slowly enough that you could see it coming and dodge (assuming that you hadn't just randomly moved out of the way). The maximum effective range against non-massed targets SHOULD be a couple hundred feet at most with maybe another few hundred feet against massed targets, but in D&D land sensible armies should open up at the maximum range they can get line of sight at and count on the odd 20 to actually hit.
    D&D is a sword and sorcery game, it has, and will, never bother with the flight time of arrows, or of coconut laden african swallows.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    What about sorcerous arrows?
    How about sorcerous sword-wielding arrows?
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Goblin

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    Default Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread

    Brilliant. I love it.

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