My Little Pony LI: FE

[Aotrs Commander]

Fifteen?

One of those rare moments where you realize the difference in age, geography and perspective means you might as well be from another world.

I've been wargaming since I was eleven, remember...

I know it's about fifteen years since we started using the cardboard terrain, since in 2000 my Dad actually ran a Stargrunt II competition at the World Wargames, and by that time we were well into the period. (In fact, as penance for nicking al my mates for the competition, he had to help me make a fold-flat nearly-half meter Escort Carrier for the 6mm Star Wars fighter combat game I was running at the same show. That still is the biggest fold-flat model we hava ever had - still got it, actually. Technically, it is a pop-up, rather than fold-flat, given the size. We had to build it on a plywood base. (Well, he did all the design work, I did all the decoration.)

I found a picture; not at that show, but I think this was taken shortly thereafter. Thoise are micromachines SW models, to give you an idea of scale.

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[Beacon of Chaos]

Huh. The dark pony story discussion/arguement is still going on. I don't know how I feel considering I inadvertantly started it.

And I can't think of a good name for him, so he is currently just Dr. Havoc. Anyone got any good names for an alchemist? :I

So, uh, no thoughts at all? How about you, Deadly? I threw you some Shadowbolts names, help me out.

Yeah I could see that. As I said from the start, it's more of an implication. I just feel like maybe Celestia has gotten set in her ways and wishes she could get out of all the formal custom, but I can't really prove it from show evidence.

I see what you mean. It's not shown, but it certainly is believable. That's a head canon for ya!

Am I jumping the gun here? (Also, is anyone else interested? )

I'm kinda interested. I tried reading the RiM rule book though, and got seriously bored part way through.

After that, what happens is up to the players, including ignoring the overarching story in order to go cause havoc.

I approve.

.....Or not. Err, RisM is not realy the bestist system for high adventure. I (enter opinon here) would suggest this as the better system to use in the creation of the adventure's of colorful equines in interesting enviroments. Simple but efficant mechanics are better than barely and mechanics at all.
(end opinon here)
"cue cheezy smile here"

I will add my 2 bits here and say that I had the urge to create a character with AoH before I even finished reading the rules, and RiM I got bored with, so maybe this isn't the game for me after all. :/

we learned at bronycon that "flick" is a swear in the same way most people use "buck", because having some pony flick your horn is flicking annoying!

*snerk*

Love the art style! What tools and program does she use? Could you bother her about brush settings for me?

Damn, I can't remember. I know it wasn't Photoshop or Sai. I'll send her an email and get back to you.


In the meantime, cosplays!

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Pretty awesome I'd say. Love the cutie mark and the hair.


She's so cute!


RAWR!

[Pendulous]

It's insane how excited people are getting over a simple cinematic. Forum's going crazy because "oh holy crap, Mist of Pandaria opening cinematic is being released". Really, people don't get this excited over anything else it seems. Not even the damn release of the game.

It rather pleases me to think that you burn a little more every time you see my screen name...

Huh, well, I have no idea what your name even means.

Lix and Lorn

Zorn and Thorn! Oh wait, no.

And maybe I came off a little hard there. Sorry.

But I do think it's a little unfair to call it OOC when many authors (I at least) put a lot of effort into staying true to the characters and the setting, to specifically not be OOC even if it's a different genre and different tone than the show.

I'm doing the same thing. It just doesn't feel right to have the characters act, well, out of character. I think that's why a lot of stories have a new character, one that the author can do with what they wish.

And speaking of, I read my first fanfic today. Granted, it was my roommate's, but still. I have no real desire to read anymore, so I still feel out of place.

[Deadly]

Dependent. I specifically made it the point when calling out this conversation, and because you keep listing trying really really hard as a salient point.

I do not, I specifically said that's not the point. I agree with you that trying really hard is not the point, that's what I said. I agree that you don't get to claim success without actually succeeding, but that's not the point of this discussion. We're not talking about trying really hard, we're not even talking about succeeding or not.

We're talking about whether something is, or just possibly might be possible.

I think you're successful too. And I never said it was impossible.

Sorry, this is still Sly's earlier discussion and arguments I'm dealing with, you just chose to continue the discussion so I'm directing it at you. If you agree with me that it's not impossible to write a dark pony story and make it work and be IC, then I don't honestly know why you're arguing with me still, because that's all I'm arguing about

Unfortunately, I'm American. My education system has even actively engineered to make people dumber, less questioning, more obedient, and better at being cogs in a greater machine. So teachers aren't the best example. I've net teachers who were deeply passionate and letaned on their subject, an still sucked as teachers. I've met teachers who hated their subject, had their credentials in another subject entirely, and we're still good at teaching their subject. Effort is important, but so is aptitude.

Well, then imagine a foreign teacher in some country where the education system actually works. Or imagine any number of other situations. Like, "it's not possible to cook clams and make them tasty, it just can't be done," despite the fact that there are probably chefs out there who pride themselves in their very successful and acclaimed clams.

Maybe you absolutely hate clams and can't imagine ever eating and liking one, but it just might be that one day some chef presents you with a mystery dish that you eat and love, only to find out afterwards that it was clams.

Or it may be that you can't imagine a dark pony story working and being IC, but then one day someone tells you to read a story, you read it and love it and it works, it's totally IC, but you have to admit that it was pretty dark.

Saying, in effect, that you can't possibly write a dark story involving ponies without making it utterly OOC, as was the impression I got from Sly's arguments, is not fair. It has nothing to do with what people try, or how hard they try, it's all about whether you might be proven wrong some day.

If you don't want to read these stories, that's fine, as I've said repeatedly, but you don't get to claim that they can't possibly work. And again, this is not directed at you, because I think you've said you agree. This was what I heard Sly say, and maybe it wasn't meant that way, but that's what I heard and what I objected to. Nothing else.

The bolded part? Unimportant.

Yes, so please look at all the rest of the sentence.

If part of what defines "pony" is a thing the author is actively working against and cutting out of their work, then it can be a great story, and have ponies in it, and not be a pony story. It happens all the time in real life. Dozens of science fiction books are turned away from publishing and told "you've got a great story, but publish it as [Genre] because this isn't science fiction."

And I will argue that what defines "pony" is not "it ain't dark". Sure, that's part of the show, and I've never claimed you can write an episode of the show that is truly dark, because that's not the show, but that doesn't say anything about the setting. I think Sly and I pretty much ended up agreeing to disagree on this point, however.

I also never said it was impossible. I made sure to add a "but it's cool, it still works" to EVERY post on this topic.

If you agree it can be done, then we have no reason to argue, because that's what I've said all along. Nothing else.

It is taking me a lot of effort not to get casually vicious. I politely concede.

Perhaps we should just leave it at this, then, because I don't want this to turn sour or for anyone's feelings to get hurt. I do think we agree, Siuis, so I'm frankly a little confused that this discussion is happening at all. I'm just trying to clear things up.

Since I agree with SiuiS and still think I can avoid being insulting, I choose to take up his mantle for the moment.

The unfortunate reality is that life isn't always fair, and sometimes people try really hard at things and they still don't turn out right. The conversation here has never been that all dark stories fail at being pony. Rather, it has been said that writing a dark story that is also pony poses a significantly increased challenge, one that is also deceptively difficult because it's not always obvious right away why the tone is off.

Can it be done? Absolutely, yes. But lots and lots of authors have tried really hard and failed. It's like trying to become a gymnast and setting up your balance beam 30 feet off the ground. If you're perfect, it makes no difference, but if you mess up, the consequences are way worse.

I repeat: If you agree it can be done, then we have no reason to argue, because that's what I've said all along. Nothing else.

[SiuiS]

Huh. The dark pony story discussion/arguement is still going on. I don't know how I feel considering I inadvertantly started it.

It's almost entirely semantic, and my fault. I delayed my quote posting so I coul get out of work at a decent hour.

So, uh, no thoughts at all? How about you, Deadly? I threw you some Shadowbolts names, help me out.

Couldn't actually open that spoiler. Every time I tried it crashe my browser. I'll work on it now that I don't have a bunch of multiquotes to protect.

I'm kinda interested. I tried reading the RiM rule book though, and got seriously bored part way through.

I will add my 2 bits here and say that I had the urge to create a character with AoH before I even finished reading the rules, and RiM I got bored with, so maybe this isn't the game for me after all. :/

Role playing is magic is a sort of kiddie game. The season one edition had a problem that was literally, a pony tryin to get his kite out of a tree. So at the low end, these are the kinds of situations that require rolls. On the high end, I was going to use it for a dark, alternate universe take where Celestia banished everyone to the moon and they developed their own pulp noir culture there. So it can handle more important things as well.

The problem is, Aspirations of Harmony is a completely combat base system. There is no support for non combat stuff except "feel free to make it really hard because ponies can get up to like, +50 if they nova". The combat system is neat, but then you end up with a game structured to throw you into fights, and absolutely no support outside of it. In which case why not just play 4e D&D and call a spade a spade?

Role playing is magic strikes me as having a system which matters outside of combat, isn't entirely different from combat in a mechanical sense, and has a whimsical appeal. I like the possibility of my pony being bullied to the point of "dying" from courage loss. That's neat, and very in line with the show. Dash didn't get upset that a boulder crushed her wing, so much as she lost faith and broke.

The book is very wordy. Even I have trouble with it. I skipped to character creation because that's what matters to me at first. I'll do a quicksy write-up for that later. The general swing of RiM however, is that the DM doesn't roll. Stuff happens, characters react. Either you succeed and take no/little damage, or fail, suffer damage and possibly end up in a worse spot. Like Dashie dodging the avalanche rocks in DragonShy.

What do we have from memory?
Pick a pony base (age and type)
Pick stats
Pick job
Pick skills
Pick special talent
Add unicorn/earth/Pegasus template
Spend XP

And that's a character. At start, that gives you +5 for any given task, plus tools, and cutie mark lets you add half the original roll. Lot of swing that last one, but only upwards. I don't te know what one uses to determine the difficulty though...

What makes the choice for me iss thinking, what would I do in AoH outside of combat? And the only answer is putz along until the next exciting combat. *shrug* a great combat engine with terribad noncombat pales compared to great noncombat and good enough combat.

Damn, I can't remember. I know it wasn't Photoshop or Sai. I'll send her an email and get back to you.

Appreciate it.

In the meantime, cosplays!

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Pretty awesome I'd say. Love the cutie mark and the hair.


She's so cute!


RAWR!

dat Gilda!
I love how the low rise pants totally make it look like she's got a gut, though. Pants go at the waste, honey. The waste XD

It's insane how excited people are getting over a simple cinematic. Forum's going crazy because "oh holy crap, Mist of Pandaria opening cinematic is being released". Really, people don't get this excited over anything else it seems. Not even the damn release of the game.

I somehow missed this part of your post o_O
People are silly, yes.

I'm doing the same thing. It just doesn't feel right to have the characters act, well, out of character. I think that's why a lot of stories have a new character, one that the author can do with what they wish.

And speaking of, I read my first fanfic today. Granted, it was my roommate's, but still. I have no real desire to read anymore, so I still feel out of place.

That cool. If its not your thing it's not your thing.

[BlasTech]

I would be interested in this, though I'll have to familiarize myself with the system. Are we talking high adventure, mature ponies, or more along the lines of what we see in the show?

Character would probably be my Avatar: a green scientist pegasus with a quest to find new knowledge.

The tone is basically aiming for only a step or two above the show in terms of maturity. On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the show, 10 being Fallout Equestria) it will rate about a 3. Best guides I can give are the fanfics "It's a Dangerous Business going out your door", "One last quest" and "Off the Edge of the Map".

Basically, it's not all sunshine and happiness but at the same time there will be no grimdark. Creatures may resort to violence, and the PC's may get hurt.

But ... that said, the fight with bandits will end with them K.O'd, not killed. Falling down a canyon is more likely to result in a battered PC rather than one with broken bones. Most of all, this is still Equestria, so friendship is still a powerful magic force, the Princesses are wise, just and caring, and most of the rest of the world is populated by fundamentally decent creatures.

They may just be looking out for themselves slightly more than you, that's all

Death may be brought up, but it will be rare and only if narratively appropriate (and most likely "offscreen"). E.g. the pursuing monster getting hit by a rockfall.

This makes it sound like it will be all action-y and fighting, but I do want to emphasise that a good 70% of the time is likely to be spent in conversations, environmental challenges or PC develpment.

For instance, intimidating or bluffing said bandits into leaving you alone is a perfectly valid approach to resolving a hold up (and probably would work better than an out and out fight). Taming the monster would also work if you have a pony with the appropriate skill set.

Singing at it might only make it chase you faster though ... unless you specialise in sleep music or something.

Thank you for typing all that up.

Hmmm.

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I don't like the system.

RPG-Design Philosophy:

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These days when I assess systems, my first and only question is "Why would I use this system rather than Heroquest?"

Knowledge of the Heroquest system is an excellent tool to have as a storyteller. As far as a completely generic conflict resolution system goes I don't think you can do better. Heroquest works with everything. Ponies. Exalted. Space cyborg ninjas fighting Galactus. DC superheroes. It's a pure conflict resolution mechanic which promotes good storytelling through it's fundamental success/failure structure. Heroquest also takes twenty minutes, tops, to teach a new player everything they have to know.

There are better systems than Heroquest. The World of Darkness Storyteller System, for example, is utterly optimised for the task of being a horror game. Bonuses and penalties are easy to assess, and creeping reductions to your dice pool as a horror scene drags on is intimidating. Combat is fast and bloody. The game will rarely, if ever, get dragged down in minutae. Supernatural powers are discrete, flavourful and interesting to advance. Merits allow a vast swathe of customisation. WoD is way better at being a horror game than Heroquest could ever be.

Using that same system for something else, like Exalted... well, you get the clusterfrag of Exalted 2E. Storyteller is not good at being a generic system. That's okay, so long as it does the one thing it's meant to do well.

Now, this system? It feels like it's an attempt to reverse-engineer the show as a roleplaying game. All the choices in it feel really limited, with so few points that it doesn't seem possible to expand a character past their base competencies. There's no fun for me to had in gaming the system.

And I do like gaming systems. All my characters tend to be very optimised for a task - I really like the concept of being the very best at whatever it is that I do, even if it means I have to make some costly trade-off. This system lacks the ability to do that through it's super specific character creation process, limited array of choices, and lack of an effective benchmark. WoD I know 13 dice is fantastic because Joe Average rolls 4. This... bluh?

It just wouldn't be fun to make a character in this system. It wouldn't hurt, but I'd get no joy out of it. It'd just be a thing I did so I knew what to roll when conflict resolution time came and it wouldn't cover all aspects of my character (particularly the character I was tossing around).

A small thing? Maybe. But I've got Opinions, I've refined them over time, and these days I don't have time for things I don't find interesting.

So if that's back to Plan A for you I guess Mirror Flag will wait in my back pocket a while longer

Hmm, well I guess that's fair enough. I'll make a note to check out Heroquest on the weekend if I can get a copy of the rulebook, but if RiM isn't your cup of tea I'm not going to force you to use it. I will, however, want to corner you sometime so I can pillage your brain for ideas to make the players suffer more game more interesting.

Re your question about benchmarks; the guidance for setting task DC's is as follows;

Pick a type of pony;

• Normal; (Guardpony #12) (+5 modifier)
• Specialist; (Mr Cake if it relates to baking) (+15 modifier)
• Legendary; (Twilight if it relates to magic) (+25 modifier)

Then on a scale of 1-10, add how tricky it would be for that pony to do.

Then add situational/gear modifiers as appropriate (typically no more than +5).

Total is the guideline DC for the task. So if you're packing around 20 from your attributes/job/talents/tools etc etc, you're pretty much one of the best in your field.

E.g. Rainbow Dash is probably a 8 on body, 10 on aerobatics, a level 5 weatherpony, and has taken the ability that counts wings as a +2 tool for flying. All this is before taking into account bonuses from friends (up to +15), talents and cutie mark.

She'd be high level though, most ponies at creation will probably pack only a 15 bonus to one specific area at most. (Where Job/Primary Attribute and special abilities all overlap)

Stars an Fire!
Ah well. Bridle shores eludes me. I do not have a character who could interact with them, except in the grimdark parts and then it would just be a contest of egos between me and the other self-styled gods quad members.

One of these days, one of my plans to strip myself of power an start anew will succeed, Damn it.

Well so far Quaver appears to be playing the part of straight-mare in semi denial about all the bizzare shenanigans that go on there.

She still thinks Mystic's Zergpony just likes wearing her Nightmare Night costume constantly.

You just couldn't get it to work, huh?

... Nope.

Your poem honestly made me tear up. Good show, wee beetle.

I'm*Having a slow time making it through the rules, because doing ANYTHING ELSE resets the app to page one.

Huh, that's odd. It doesn't do that on my phone. Still, ouch ... that's alot of text to scrawl through on a small screen ><

I have Starry Notions worked out, kind of. Enchantment doesn't seem to be a viable pony thing, nor the usual techniques he uses.

Thistle Ponisdottr is slated for a creation, but she shares traits with both Pegasus and Earth ponies.

Starry has been considered just for completeness, but likely wouldn't see play.

I'm sure you can put "item enchanter" as a job, might need to take magical aspects relating to the types of enchantment you want (e.g. if you specialise in automating golems or something, you'd need animate and earth aspects or the like)

Or am I thinking of a different definition of enchanter here?

Heh. Ah well. What we lose in player base we gain in brains for Blastech to pick?

Indeed

[One Tin Soldier]

Well, I'm about halfway thought the RiM rules, and I'm definitely intrigued. They did a good job making it feel like its own game, particularly the magic system. It's complex, and not all of it is intuitive, but it is very flexible and distinct from any other magic system I know.

There are only a couple things that I don't like about it so far. One is the Guiding Element of Harmony; it feels tacked on, and they don't give enough character examples outside of the mane 6 for it to feel relevant to every character. The other thing is the racial bonuses to primary stats. I expected them to be balanced between the three races. There's no reason for earth ponied to be the only ones with a Heart bonus. I would make it: Earth +1 Body +2 Heart, Pegasus +1 Mind +2 Body, Unicorn +1 Heart +2 Mind.

Aside from that, I'm liking this system, and I'm interested in the game.

[Deadly]

Speaking of which, here he is! My alchemist pony! Two versions because I'm still not sure which colour scheme I prefer.

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And I can't think of a good name for him, so he is currently just Dr. Havoc. Anyone got any good names for an alchemist? :I

So, uh, no thoughts at all? How about you, Deadly? I threw you some Shadowbolts names, help me out.

Oh, sorry, I completely missed that

I'm not very good at names, that's why I asked for advice myself. But if he's an alchemist, maybe look around on wikipedia for old alchemist terms.

Here are a few words and ideas: lead, gold, panacea, transmutation, esoteric, aqua vitae or aqua regia (actually those are not bad names), elements (earth, air, fire, water), magnum opus (or opus magnum, as I'd always heard it before) ... maybe you can work something out based on stuff like this

[Thanqol]

Hmm, well I guess that's fair enough. I'll make a note to check out Heroquest on the weekend if I can get a copy of the rulebook, but if RiM isn't your cup of tea I'm not going to force you to use it. I will, however, want to corner you sometime so I can pillage your brain for ideas to make the players suffer more game more interesting.

Re your question about benchmarks; the guidance for setting task DC's is as follows;

Pick a type of pony;

• Normal; (Guardpony #12) (+5 modifier)
• Specialist; (Mr Cake if it relates to baking) (+15 modifier)
• Legendary; (Twilight if it relates to magic) (+25 modifier)

Then on a scale of 1-10, add how tricky it would be for that pony to do.

Then add situational/gear modifiers as appropriate (typically no more than +5).

Total is the guideline DC for the task. So if you're packing around 20 from your attributes/job/talents/tools etc etc, you're pretty much one of the best in your field.

E.g. Rainbow Dash is probably a 8 on body, 10 on aerobatics, a level 5 weatherpony, and has taken the ability that counts wings as a +2 tool for flying. All this is before taking into account bonuses from friends (up to +15), talents and cutie mark.

She'd be high level though, most ponies at creation will probably pack only a 15 bonus to one specific area at most.

Okay, you've gone through all that and we've got a kinda metric to determine what the uppermost scale of Equestria looks like, which is inconsistent with character creation rules and the provided XP scale and implies that players will start off as comparative chumps.

We've used that all to work out that if we add this and that and that modifier and do this dance we'll be able to prove that Rainbow Dash is the best Flier in Equestria because she can hit this arbitrary DC. Okay.

In Heroquest, Rainbow Dash would have an Ability called "Best Flier In Equestria". Whenever she does awesome flying stuff she rolls off that.

Heroquest, you have three Keywords - typically Background, Occupation, and Supernatural Class/Race/Template Whatever. So Twilight might look like:

Princess' Student
Ponyville Librarian
Unicorn Pony

Under those she'd have Abilities, like so

Princess' Student 13
- Canterlot Connections
- Most Faithful Student
- Sister to the Guard Captain

Ponyville Librarian 15
- Dedicated Researcher
- Dragon Assistant
- Egghead

Unicorn Pony 17
- Telekinesis
- Element of Magic
- Teleportation

Etc. With this, we have skipped the ass-backwards reverse engineering numbers grind and gotten to the results that we actually want when designing characters.

[Lix Lorn]

dat Gilda!
I love how the low rise pants totally make it look like she's got a gut, though. Pants go at the waste, honey. The waste XD

Waist, honey. Waist.

[Eakin]

Waist, honey. Waist.

My favorite parts are how the typo happened twice, how he specifically drew attention to it the second time, and how it happened 36 hours after he pointed out my signature which warns of EXACTLY that kind of mistake.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Couldn't actually open that spoiler. Every time I tried it crashe my browser. I'll work on it now that I don't have a bunch of multiquotes to protect.

Couldn't open it? Hmm. Files too big maybe?

RiM vs. AoH

I see your point. Perhaps I'm still to used to looking at the combat mechanics in games. I have very little experience of "roll"playing. Nearly everything I've done is freeform, or cRPGs where combat is everything.

Appreciate it.

Well, I didn't have to email her after all, I found a screen shot. She used Painter Essentials and what I assume is the default brush with these settings:

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Though she changed the brush size frequently.

Also, here's the thread where she posted everything she did in the livestream.

dat Gilda!
I love how the low rise pants totally make it look like she's got a gut, though. Pants go at the waste, honey. The waste XD

Uh-

Waist, honey. Waist.

Yeah, that.

Oh, sorry, I completely missed that

No problem, just figured I'd prod you a bit. Folks are much more likely to respond when they see their name I guess.

I'm not very good at names, that's why I asked for advice myself. But if he's an alchemist, maybe look around on wikipedia for old alchemist terms.

Here are a few words and ideas: lead, gold, panacea, transmutation, esoteric, aqua vitae or aqua regia (actually those are not bad names), elements (earth, air, fire, water), magnum opus (or opus magnum, as I'd always heard it before) ... maybe you can work something out based on stuff like this

Dunno why I didn't think about Wikipedia. DERP. These are all pretty good ideas. Aqua Vitae and Panacea wouldn't be bad names, but I'm not sure they work for the character. I'll do some thinking. Thanks!

EDIT: Hah! Found my name!

Q. What does the alchemist pony do when he meets a pretty mare?

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A. Elixir

[Anarion]

Okay, you've gone through all that and we've got a kinda metric to determine what the uppermost scale of Equestria looks like, which is inconsistent with character creation rules and the provided XP scale and implies that players will start off as comparative chumps.

We've used that all to work out that if we add this and that and that modifier and do this dance we'll be able to prove that Rainbow Dash is the best Flier in Equestria because she can hit this arbitrary DC. Okay.

In Heroquest, Rainbow Dash would have an Ability called "Best Flier In Equestria". Whenever she does awesome flying stuff she rolls off that.

Heroquest, you have three Keywords - typically Background, Occupation, and Supernatural Class/Race/Template Whatever. So Twilight might look like:

Princess' Student
Ponyville Librarian
Unicorn Pony

Under those she'd have Abilities, like so

Princess' Student 13
- Canterlot Connections
- Most Faithful Student
- Sister to the Guard Captain

Ponyville Librarian 15
- Dedicated Researcher
- Dragon Assistant
- Egghead

Unicorn Pony 17
- Telekinesis
- Element of Magic
- Teleportation

Etc. With this, we have skipped the ass-backwards reverse engineering numbers grind and gotten to the results that we actually want when designing characters.

I don't know the Heroquest system (I have the PDF somewhere I think, haven't read it because the game I was downloading it for never happened). So seeing that list of numbers doesn't really tell me much. Does having a more specific set of traits mean the character can improvise less? Taking Rainbow Dash under the Heroquest vs. RiM rules, would RiM allow Rainbow Dash a greater variety of moves and tricks compared to her focus in Heroquest? That seems like an area where a system could differentiate itself, as the nature of the heroquest titles seems to make the player think along certain lines, whereas something like Stat A+skill B can make a player more inventive, unless the skills or stats are themselves too limited.

My favorite parts are how the typo happened twice, how he specifically drew attention to it the second time, and how it happened 36 hours after he pointed out my signature which warns of EXACTLY that kind of mistake.

Irony is always watching. Always waiting for the right moment to pounce.

[Soras Teva Gee]

My favorite parts are how the typo happened twice, how he specifically drew attention to it the second time, and how it happened 36 hours after he pointed out my signature which warns of EXACTLY that kind of mistake.

I've copypasta'd a spelling error in the ponymote post for like five ponythreads before.

[Eakin]

Q. What does the alchemist pony do when he meets a pretty mare?

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A. Elixir

I'll do you one worse:

Q: How do pegasi reverse encrypted password hashes?

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Rainbow tables

That one probably requires an explanation for the non-crypto set

[One Tin Soldier]

Looking back at the RiM rules, I see that I was wrong about the lopsided racial traits. I still think that Earth ponies should get the minor Body boost instead of unicorns, but they are evenly distributed. I guess I'll just chalk it up to reading the rules at 2 in the morning.

At any rate, I'm still liking the system. There are a few weak points, but it seems pretty solid overall.

[Thanqol]

I don't know the Heroquest system (I have the PDF somewhere I think, haven't read it because the game I was downloading it for never happened). So seeing that list of numbers doesn't really tell me much. Does having a more specific set of traits mean the character can improvise less? Taking Rainbow Dash under the Heroquest vs. RiM rules, would RiM allow Rainbow Dash a greater variety of moves and tricks compared to her focus in Heroquest? That seems like an area where a system could differentiate itself, as the nature of the heroquest titles seems to make the player think along certain lines, whereas something like Stat A+skill B can make a player more inventive, unless the skills or stats are themselves too limited.

What's a "move" or "trick"? There's no subsystem for it under RiM; you just roll aerobatics.

But yes, Heroquest is a narrativist system and explicitly not a simulationist one. Here's an example: Superman.

Superman has his "Last Son of Krypton" keyword. It covers his super strength, super speed, eye lasers, all that jazz. When Superman fights a mugger, he doesn't roll his Last Son of Krypton stat. He just wins. Because he's Superman. He rolls when he's fighting Lex Luthor in power armour.

The player might decide to rate the Last Son of Krypton keyword really low! That doesn't mean Superman sucks at being Superman. That means that, in terms of the story, whenever he cuts loose in the spandex he gets beaten down, and whenever the emphasis is on different parts - like his Clark Kent keyword - he does really well. He still beats Luthor in the end, because he's Superman, but he takes a very different route to get there.

So Rainbow Dash under Heroquest can do whatever tricks I describe her as doing. If there's a meaningful contest there, defined as an interesting and significant chance of failure, then it's a roll.

Yes, it's less good than having a customised and optimised subsystem to manage the ins and outs of her specific ruleset, in the same way as "Forces Mage" is kinda a bland substitute for playing Mage: The Awakening. But as generic systems go it does it's job really well. If an optimised system does a worse job than Heroquest then you should use Heroquest.

EDIT: And in terms of inventiveness, it's easy to branch out. Say Superman needs to put out a fire. He says, "Hey, GM, can I use... uh... super breath?"

The GM says "Uh, that's a bit of a stretch" and imposes a penalty because it's not a core part of Supes' powers.

Supes winds up re-using super breath a few times and eventually decides to pay a hero point and add it to his sheet as an Ability under Last Son of Krypton. The difference is that the inventiveness comes from character understanding and not mechanical progression.

[Alabenson]

There is no basis for Discord's imprisonment weakening due to the elements passing to new owners, or to being a continuous rather than instantaneous effect.

I'd have to disagree with you here: Celestia states that the spells that imprisoned Discord had broken down since she and Luna were no longer connected to the elements. That indicates that not only is the effect continuous as opposed to instantaneous, but that it does weaken when the bearers who used the elements against Discord lose their connection.

There is likewise no reason to believe the elements of harmony are the Biggest Baddest.

Aside from the fact that the series is called "Friendship is Magic" and the fact that the elements have defeated two of the series major villians and posed a significant threat to the third, no it hasn't been outright stated that the Elements of Harmony are the Biggest Baddest.
But I'd say there's plenty of evidence to infer that they are.

Different materials have different temperatures at which they evaporate, ignite and explode. Some objects will burn before they evaporate, some explode before they burn, etc.

It is entirely possible for an object to be disintegrated completely before burning at all. So where r not it burns is a meaningful distinction, however asinine the assertion may be.

At this point I think you're being overly pedantic even by my standards.
My point was that even if Discord isn't truly omnipotent, he's sufficiently powerful that the distinction is irrelevant with regards as to whether or not he could readily teleport back to Equestria should he be launched into space.

Replacemnt paint arrives, one week after ordering.

Paint is not grey but emphatically green.

Useless.

On inspection, stupid colour is apparently not only one of few in range that is not a close match, but one of the furthest apart.

@#*£ing typical. As I ordered two pots as all the other colours I'd bought were close enough.

Going to have to start mixing grey again. Only plus is that I ordered new white and black at same time.

*extremely fracked off*

Initiating Lich appeasement procedures

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Fun with RP

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You're not listening.
You are on the Darkspire. It eats your kind for breakfast.

Literally.

The Darkspire is an entity in it's own right and will consume your soul if you remain here long enough to attract it's attention, bodysnatcher. If you wish to speak with my Master, I will arrange for parlay on neutral ground.

Given that Silent Night hasn't had a soul for some time, I'd say that unfortunately he should be perfectly safe. Well, technically he does have a soul, it's just that nopony knows where it is at the moment.

Well, that sound lov-
"warp in reality"

-aaaah! Oh, hey, I know where I am! This is....actualy in a cult center.


Without any cultists in it.


Well, gosh.

Ah yes, right now you're in one of the cult center's my ninja army cleared out. But don't worry, you're not all alone there.

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By the way, I told them that you were hiding magic super-muffins in your ribcage. Have fun!
THE MUFFINS SHALL BE OURS!

"WHAT, CANTERLOT IN RUINS!?" Luchadore Mask raises a hoof to the sky, "I SWEAR UPON MY SECRET TECHNIQUE TO FIND THE ONE RESPONSIBLE BOFFINSPARK AND HEADLOCK HIM INTO SUBMISSION!"

Gah! This is just like magic kindergarten. Well, this time I have something I didn't back then.
You're not firing the OFC at a single insane Luchadore.
The OFC? Oh my no, I was referring to Igor.

*a portal opens next to Luchadore Mask, a masked orangutan in spandex hops out*
OOK!

[Topaz]

PonyTales: DnD

Wait, there's a "Pony Tales" based on D&D? Where?

Oh, and in honor of getting a spa makeover in the IRC RP, I've updated my avatar. Yay!

[Tiki Snakes]

Fun with RP

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Given that Silent Night hasn't had a soul for some time, I'd say that unfortunately he should be perfectly safe. Well, technically he does have a soul, it's just that nopony knows where it is at the moment.

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I have no idea how you got this frequency, but I can assure you that such a distinction is quite insufficient to have made the situation any less dangerous for him but as he has been returned to Equestria along with all our other unscheduled guests, that is no longer an issue that you need concern yourself with.
*Slurps latte, sighs contentedly*
You're the dangerous lunatic, right? It's so hard sometimes to keep track of you all.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'll do you one worse:

Q: How do pegasi reverse encrypted password hashes?

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Rainbow tables

That one probably requires an explanation for the non-crypto set

Is it wrong that I got that without the link?

[Kairaven]

I apologize, there are no news on the Faust sketch or JDL voice mesage at the moment, the parties are all busy, whether filming in Europe or working on new shows, or bringing bronies Classical music culture. I have been assured that I shall have a better answer after the film crew return from Europe. If the items are to be delivered along with the DVD, then we are looking at possibly December time frame. (Hopefully before Xmas)


While I am not ponied out, I am Ponythread-lost, and don't have much to contribute, sry.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I whole-heatedly agree and would assign you right this instant as Prime Minister if you could possibly show me a valid counter-metric that is not Bigger Beams or a poorly established notion of difficulty.

Achieved effect. The laser-power to slay a dragon is comparable to the diplomatic ability to convince it leave forever. The laser-power required to reduce a nation to smouldering ruins is comparable to the amount of political clout that will bring that same nation to ruin by driving it's allies away and crushing it economically in such a thorough manner that the existing social structure collapses entirely. For instance, I could (maybe) beat Bill Gates in a fight. He can probably destabilise the entire economy of the country I live in. I definitely can't beat up an entire country. Thus we see that Bill is more powerful that myself.

I'm not sure if this sort of thing falls under "poorly established notions of difficulty", though. It definitely has the problem of running into apples-and-oranges where the largest effect achieveable by one party is not comparable in any manner to the other parties best, but it's an infinitely better at comparing power than duke-it-out-on-an-infinite-featureless-plain.

And the childrens all think that's what power is.

And so we educate them.

That's motto say finding a Discord-in-space is easy, though. No. The effor is monumental. But it won't take a bajillion years if at all, which is where the assumed sense of relative ease comes from.

Oh, absolutely. Baseline, you'd need enough narrative mojo to counteract the narrative weight of the grimly determined attempt to banish Discord forever, which considering the suffering caused by Mr. D, is very far from insubstantial. Narrative Causality is on the side of the statue getting found, but not necessarily in favour of the statue being found in those particular circumstances, so you need to stack the odds a bit on that front. Spilling the blood of one of the banishers would be the typical solution.

This is unfortunately one of those topics where I sound like a sociopath if I get into it deep enough. [snip]

For what it's worth, you don't sound sociopathic to me!

(said the guy who just matter-of-factly suggested using Blood Magic to find the statue-prison of the God of Chaos)

It's almost entirely semantic, and my fault. I delayed my quote posting so I coul get out of work at a decent hour.

It does seem to be semantic at this point. But it takes two to tango, and you're not the only one dancing. Don't put this on you.

But onwards to the semantics:

Saying, in effect, that you can't possibly write a dark story involving ponies without making it utterly OOC, as was the impression I got from Sly's arguments, is not fair. It has nothing to do with what people try, or how hard they try, it's all about whether you might be proven wrong some day.

If you don't want to read these stories, that's fine, as I've said repeatedly, but you don't get to claim that they can't possibly work. And again, this is not directed at you, because I think you've said you agree. This was what I heard Sly say, and maybe it wasn't meant that way, but that's what I heard and what I objected to. Nothing else.

We've already agreed that we don't see eye to eye regarding the the show's flavour is inherent to the setting or not, which is a big chunk of whether or not "dark" can exist in equestria. There seems to be another side, which is what "dark" even means. So, semantics!

My definition seems different from the usual one. Cake Story carries a Dark tag, yet I do not think it is a dark story. I also think it has oodles of FiM flavour. Help me out here folks, is that story dark? If so, I need to recalibrate.

I think that by the tag-definition of dark it is perfectly possible to write a dark story that retains the character of Equestria. It's uphill work, but hardly sisyphean.(the hell, brain? pretentious much?) not impossible.

When you say "If you don't want to read these stories, that's fine, as I've said repeatedly, but you don't get to claim that they can't possibly work.", I definitely get to claim that they cannot possibly work for me. I would never presume to claim they can't work in general, not when discussing things as subjective as darkness and flavour in storytelling. People with different understandings of what makes a story dark, or what the setting's flavour really is, will no doubt find that such stories can work for them. I very much doubt that'll happen to me as long as I consider that the flavour of the show and the flavour of Equestria are the same.

[Pokonic]

While Pony Tales would do much better at handling dark or gritty games, as is one I want to try at some point (it exists in my mind as an unapologetic, uncompromising and sharp granite grey, etched with enameled purple and soft red-pink ponies in the fresco style of the storybook, a thing from another age), it is not necessarily better. The rules system in RiM lens themselves more to an easy access game on PbP, faster, looser. I actually thought it would have made a better chassis for your dragon game, just yesterday.

And given how your dragon game has gone, I don't think I want suggestions from ya on a more realistic and "adventurous" system. I'd like one bright, shiny game in my PbP roster!

Grrrrrrrrrrwait, that's actualy a good point.

Fun with RP

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Given that Silent Night hasn't had a soul for some time, I'd say that unfortunately he should be perfectly safe. Well, technically he does have a soul, it's just that nopony knows where it is at the moment.



Ah yes, right now you're in one of the cult center's my ninja army cleared out. But don't worry, you're not all alone there.

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By the way, I told them that you were hiding magic super-muffins in your ribcage. Have fun!
THE MUFFINS SHALL BE OURS!



Gah! This is just like magic kindergarten. Well, this time I have something I didn't back then.
You're not firing the OFC at a single insane Luchadore.
The OFC? Oh my no, I was referring to Igor.

*a portal opens next to Luchadore Mask, a masked orangutan in spandex hops out*
OOK!

My little Roleplay: Roleplay is Roleplay

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Ladies, ladies, I can explain! Look, I don't have any delectible treats in my ribcage, look!

"Sqlurch, splich, widgle, plop"

.....Crap, that's a muffan, isn't it?

In the meantime, cosplays!

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Pretty awesome I'd say. Love the cutie mark and the hair.


She's so cute!


RAWR!

Dat Derpy.

[DigoDragon]

One of those rare moments where you realize the difference in age, geography and perspective means you might as well be from another world.

My wife said almost the same thing yesterday when I described to her what Ponythread topics usually are about.

dat Gilda!
I love how the low rise pants totally make it look like she's got a gut, though. Pants go at the waste, honey. The waste XD

So... throw out the pants? Waste?

[Deadly]

We've already agreed that we don't see eye to eye regarding the the show's flavour is inherent to the setting or not, which is a big chunk of whether or not "dark" can exist in equestria. There seems to be another side, which is what "dark" even means. So, semantics!

My definition seems different from the usual one. Cake Story carries a Dark tag, yet I do not think it is a dark story. I also think it has oodles of FiM flavour.

So. I think that by the tag-definition of dark it is perfectly possible to write a dark story that retains the character of Equestria. It's uphill work, but hardly sisyphean.(the hell, brain? pretentious much?) not impossible.

I'm not sure I agree that the definition of what is dark is actually important here. At least to me it seems rather unimportant.It's important in selecting which stories you read, and frankly I do think it's a real problem that the Dark tag is so all-inclusive, but I don't agree that it has anything to say about whether a dark story can be IC and true to the setting and characters.

I think we can all agree that Cupcakes is a dark story by any definition. Personally I don't think it's a terribly great story as it is, but I do reckon you could make something serious of the premise and write a proper story that just might be worth reading (for those who like that kind of story). And it would be very dark by any standards. You'd have to be a damn good writer to pull it off, I'm sure, but that's what it is.

And yes, I reckon just maybe that story could even be IC and true to both setting and story. Definitely not true to the show, but as I already said, that's different to me.

So whatever you consider "dark", I'm confident that you could write such a story involving ponies and make it work within the setting. May not be easy, but that's different from impossible.

But again, this is all because we disagree on that little distinction between show and setting, so I'll shut up about it now

When you say "If you don't want to read these stories, that's fine, as I've said repeatedly, but you don't get to claim that they can't possibly work.", I definitely get to claim that they cannot possibly work for me. I would never presume to claim they can't work in general, not when discussing things as subjective as darkness and flavour in storytelling. People with different understandings of what makes a story dark, or what the setting's flavour really is, will no doubt find that such stories can work for them. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and I will find the story that genuinely feels like MLP to me despite being genuinely dark as I understand it. But I very much doubt that'll happen as long as I consider that the flavour of the show and the flavour of Equestria are the same.

I suppose if you're speaking entirely for yourself it's alright. The problem is when you say something like "dark stories are OOC", it might very easily come off as a sort of general statement, a condemnation of dark stories in general. Being OOC is sort of rather negative to my ears, it's something as a writer you definitely don't want your story to be, unless you're writing a silly comedy or something where it's the whole point. You may just mean that you don't particularly care for this kind of story, and that's fine, but saying that it is OOC sounds ... worse I guess.

I don't know if I'm just being a little sensitive, but being told that the kinds of stories I write and like to write (some of the time) are OOC simply by virtue of their tone is a little hurtful. I have no problem if you tell me you don't like such stories, because you prefer your ponies with the show-flavor, but saying they're OOC just doesn't sound like a purely personal opinion.

I'm sorry if this discussion has gone a little off the deep end and especially if I've come off as too hard or defensive. I admit I sometimes get a little frustrated when things go on and on and I feel people misunderstand me, but I do try to stay civil and debate in a good spirit

[Alabenson]

We've already agreed that we don't see eye to eye regarding the the show's flavour is inherent to the setting or not, which is a big chunk of whether or not "dark" can exist in equestria. There seems to be another side, which is what "dark" even means. So, semantics!

My definition seems different from the usual one. Cake Story carries a Dark tag, yet I do not think it is a dark story. I also think it has oodles of FiM flavour. Help me out here folks, is that story dark? If so, I need to recalibrate.

I think that by the tag-definition of dark it is perfectly possible to write a dark story that retains the character of Equestria. It's uphill work, but hardly sisyphean.(the hell, brain? pretentious much?) not impossible.

When you say "If you don't want to read these stories, that's fine, as I've said repeatedly, but you don't get to claim that they can't possibly work.", I definitely get to claim that they cannot possibly work for me. I would never presume to claim they can't work in general, not when discussing things as subjective as darkness and flavour in storytelling. People with different understandings of what makes a story dark, or what the setting's flavour really is, will no doubt find that such stories can work for them. I very much doubt that'll happen to me as long as I consider that the flavour of the show and the flavour of Equestria are the same.

At this point, I think part of the issue we're having is that we don't really have a coherent definition of what constitutes a "Dark" story. If we go by the definition that FimFiction uses, whereby a story is considered "dark" if it contains elements that are dark, than one can make the argument that a not insignificant portion of the show itself can be considered "Dark" in spite of its underlying theme that any obstacle can be overcome via love and friendship.

On the other hoof, if one holds to a stricter interpretation of "Dark", limiting the designation to stories that run contrary to the show's positive message, such as Cupcakes or stories employing the "Iron Hoof" interpretation of Princess Celestia, then that changes the nature of the argument significantly.


RP on the Ponythread Express

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I have no idea how you got this frequency, but I can assure you that such a distinction is quite insufficient to have made the situation any less dangerous for him but as he has been returned to Equestria along with all our other unscheduled guests, that is no longer an issue that you need concern yourself with.
*Slurps latte, sighs contentedly*
You're the dangerous lunatic, right? It's so hard sometimes to keep track of you all.

So, what you're saying is that Silent Night was in serious danger while he was...wherever it is you are, but now that he’s been returned to Equestria he’s perfectly safe? Or at least as safe as anypony being attacked by muffin-crazed ninjas can be.
Clearly, this means I must return Silent Night to your location as soon as possible.

Also, I would like to state for the record that I am not a dangerous lunatic.
Actually, you really are.
No, no I'm not.
You kinda are.
No. I'm. Not.
Pinka!
Dammit, stop saying that! I most certainly am not a lunatic, dangerous or otherwise. Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have a dangerous, unstable retrovirus to test on a large number of captured cultists.

My little Roleplay: Roleplay is Roleplay

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Ladies, ladies, I can explain! Look, I don't have any delectible treats in my ribcage, look!

"Sqlurch, splich, widgle, plop"

.....Crap, that's a muffan, isn't it?

OPEN HIM UP! FREE THE DELICIOUS ONES!

My, this is certainly turning out better than I had hoped. *turns to Regeln* Popcorn?

[Eakin]

Is it wrong that I got that without the link?

Nah. Good twin/evil twin, remember?

My definition seems different from the usual one. Cake Story carries a Dark tag, yet I do not think it is a dark story. I also think it has oodles of FiM flavour.

Did... did they throw a Wait Wait Don't Tell Me Reference in there at the end of the second chapter?

That was great. I would have categorized it as a black comedy if the classification were available, but Comedy/Dark works too. Still, the fic gets a lot of its humor from skewering its own dark trappings so I'd say it leans a lot more towards the comedy side. If you dropped the dark tag I wouldn't feel it had been mislabeled especially given

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the happy ending

EDIT: I guess to me a dark fic has to revel in the pain and misery of the characters. I've written a fic where a pony had to give up her family, a fic where two ponies beat each other nearly to death, and a fic where the Mane 6 aren't even sure whether or not they exist or all their memories are lies. I haven't tagged ANY of them Dark even though those were major themes or plot points.

SECOND EDIT: Random idea, anyone know of any fics that cast Blueblood as the Bruce Wayne persona of Canterlot's equivalent of Batman?

[Deadly]

EDIT: I guess to me a dark fic has to revel in the pain and misery of the characters. I've written a fic where a pony had to give up her family, a fic where two ponies beat each other nearly to death, and a fic where the Mane 6 aren't even sure whether or not they exist or all their memories are lies. I haven't tagged ANY of them Dark even though those were major themes or plot points.

I wouldn't say "revel", but I think I agree with the basic idea.

A character dying, even a main character dying, isn't necessarily dark in my eyes. It may be sad or tragic, but not necessarily dark. Boromir dying was sad, but not dark. Likewise war and struggle doesn't necessarily make the story dark either.

There has to be a focus on the pain and misery, it has to permeate the story and the mood. If everything seems hopeless and everyone suffers throughout most of the story, if that's the focus, then it's dark. If there are just some scenes where there's some suffering and war and even death, but it's not the focus or not very explicit, then it ain't necessarily dark.

The same with the Sad/Tragic tags. If it's not the focus or doesn't permeate the whole story, if it's just a few sad moments here and there, should it really need the tag?

But because this is ponies, some people may want to be warned even about a few stray scenes that might sneak in in a future chapter. It's really rather difficult when you haven't planned the whole story in complete and excruciating detail.

I'm having serious doubt whether my story needs the Dark and Sad tags, but I'm sure if I don't give it both someone will complain that they weren't warned about one little scene.

[Pokonic]

My wife said almost the same thing yesterday when I described to her what Ponythread topics usually are about.

Heh.

RP on the Ponythread Express

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So, what you're saying is that Silent Night was in serious danger while he was...wherever it is you are, but now that he’s been returned to Equestria he’s perfectly safe? Or at least as safe as anypony being attacked by muffin-crazed ninjas can be.
Clearly, this means I must return Silent Night to your location as soon as possible.

Also, I would like to state for the record that I am not a dangerous lunatic.
Actually, you really are.
No, no I'm not.
You kinda are.
No. I'm. Not.
Pinka!
Dammit, stop saying that! I most certainly am not a lunatic, dangerous or otherwise. Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have a dangerous, unstable retrovirus to test on a large number of captured cultists.



OPEN HIM UP! FREE THE DELICIOUS ONES!

My, this is certainly turning out better than I had hoped. *turns to Regeln* Popcorn?

Ponythread Role-Play: It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time

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Guh, not there, I have rib's there!

"crack"

Gah! Come on! Do you know how hard it is to heal ribs! This is the last time I carry the Ghoul Scout snacks with me anywhere!

"Meanwhile"

Huh, guess that acidic water-beast did a number on the infrastructure. Hey, what's that masked ape doing?

"Also meanwhile"

Wait a moment, so Silent has been declared a failure in the eye's of the Nightmare, and was voted to be explunged from the cult?

Yep.

And your the new high priest until Silent can prove he is worthy again?

Yep.

But your not even a priest! Your a little six year old filly with a obsession with fleshcrafting that catches everything on fire!

Yep.

But, how-

They said I was the only rightful one to take up Daddies mantle. Also, I was in the room and everyone agreed as long as I did not hug them, so that counts right?

"Gibber.Twitch."

Yay! Play time starts now!