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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Tegu8788's Avatar

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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    While they're at it, Hexblade, Skald, Elementalist, and Berzerker would be nice. I'd love to snag that Pact Weapon, Skald Aura without spending the extra feat, Elementalist to get it's damage goodness, and Berzerker because a hybrid that is already mixed role would be great to see. Maybe they will release some in Drag Mag, but given the simplicity they are shooting for, combined with Next being in the works, I don't see it happening.

    Homebrew time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Well, for Skald, you can just take Bard class and the Skald Training feat. The skald aura lasts for the whole encounter and the feat doesn't change the number of heals you get.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    While they're at it, Hexblade, Skald, Elementalist, and Berzerker would be nice. I'd love to snag that Pact Weapon, Skald Aura without spending the extra feat, Elementalist to get it's damage goodness, and Berzerker because a hybrid that is already mixed role would be great to see. Maybe they will release some in Drag Mag, but given the simplicity they are shooting for, combined with Next being in the works, I don't see it happening.

    Homebrew time!
    Having played a couple berserkers, I'm not really sure what you'd gain from hybriding the class without possibly making the deal "too good." At least at low level they can be brutally effective as either defenders or strikers and they have the flexibility to switch roles at a moment's notice (at least from defender to striker). Plus, counting as either martial or primal gives them a lot of support on its own. Start adding in some goodies from other classes - teleports, condition-shedding & self-heals, additional marking mechanics, etc. - and it starts getting absurdly good quickly.

    WotC originally was going to let warlocks take a feat to get the pact weapon and pact weapon at-will associated with their pact. It didn't make it into the character builder, though. I would've really liked to see how it turned out, but I can sort of see why they scrapped the idea.

    As for the elementalist, I really think they should've just been folded it into the regular sorcerer as an additional spell source option (Con-focused instead of Str or Dex, of course). As it stands, their resistances come too late, the mobility-enhancers (burrow, flight, teleport, or swim) seem odd tacked on so late in a character's career, and them lacking the resistance-piercing of a standard sorcerer hurts for a class primarily based on one or two damage types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Well, for Skald, you can just take Bard class and the Skald Training feat. The skald aura lasts for the whole encounter and the feat doesn't change the number of heals you get.
    True, but that ends up being a fairly feat-intensive build. In order to really take advantage of the skald's aura you have to burn another feat or two just to get a decent MBA. Not that most hybrids aren't also feat-intensive builds, too.
    Last edited by ghost_warlock; 2012-11-08 at 09:02 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_warlock View Post
    True, but that ends up being a fairly feat-intensive build. In order to really take advantage of the skald's aura you have to burn another feat or two just to get a decent MBA.
    Any basic attack, actually, which does open things up a bit. I know sorcerer, wizard and warlock have 'em, just off the top of my head, and I'd be surprised if seeker didn't. Between warlock, sorcerer and paladin, you have at least three classes with a Cha-based at-will basic attack ... that's a decent basis for hybridizing with a bard.

    Come to think of it, one of the 1st-level psion attacks that benefits a lot from Cha is also an RBA when unaugmented. Hmm ... have to look into that myself. *devious eyebrow*
    Avatar by Meltheim: Eveve, dwarven battlemind, 4e Dark Sun

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    I recently threw together an Executioner|Fake Skald, that was able to do pretty consistent damage while constantly dishing out THPs. And give that whether or not you have an aura changes pretty much what Bard powers you pick, you either do it at level 1 or have to retrain a lot of powers later on. There are other examples of hybrid builds that allow for replacements, Cleric Lore for example, that doesn't require a feat. Finishing off the classes and make a hybrid for everyone else would nice.

    And I'm not saying the Berzerker needs anything, I'd just be interested to see how they convert it, whether it's weakening features or turning half the class into a Hybrid Talent.

    I think the feat got dropped because every Warlock would likely take it, because it's so cool and effective.

    I agree, the Hybrid Sorcerer is already pretty easy to customize, like the Hybrid Monk. They would just have to add Con like you mentioned to Str and Dex, but that wouldn't be too hard.

    Guide for starting 4E.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    You know, with the right domain feat, a hybrid of two divine classes could do some nifty things. Consider an Avenger/Invoker with the Skill domain -- a pair of at-will attack powers with 19-20 crit range, right out the starting gate.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Doubling down on divine classes actually hit most of the key points of hybrids. They all have use for Wis, the paladin less so, and stat alignment isn't too hard among them. You aren't doing a double class, so you are better at spanning the gap between and not a weaker version of a role. You also deal a lot of radiant damage from both classes, so keyword boosting feats are a good bet. It is awkward that you have to spent a hybrid talent to get Challenge Divinity despite both class having access to it, but depending on your hybrid you may not really need it for AC.

    I saw an Invoker|Avenger/Paladin that looked pretty strong. Source based hybrids seem to do better in some regards, Warlock|Swordmage, for example. Psionic classes get power points without worrying for both sides from the get go.

    Guide for starting 4E.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by Leewei View Post
    You know, with the right domain feat, a hybrid of two divine classes could do some nifty things. Consider an Avenger/Invoker with the Skill domain -- a pair of at-will attack powers with 19-20 crit range, right out the starting gate.
    What domain feats would you suggest?
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    "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering DM; to the last I argue with thee; from hellís heart I slay catgirls at thee; for Galgenhumorís sake I spit my last snark at thee. Sink all Sues and all katanas to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still gaming with thee, though ticked at thee, thou damned DM! Thus, I give up the logic!"

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    I believe he is referring to Power of Skill domain feat. Divine Bolts and Overwhelming Strike, not a bad pair to have.

    Guide for starting 4E.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    Hey everyone, I'm new to the forums here and new to DND 4e as well so I apologize if I'm not following forum customs on this post.

    Just interested to see if anyone has ideas for a dragonborn paladin/sorcerer(dragon) hybrid? My current heroic tier character is following this build. I chose to keep access to dragon spec'd sorcerer powers as my hybrid power and spent the feat to access heavy plate as well.

    Current playstyle is centered on playing up close as a defender and focusing on melee and close burst spells to put out the hurt.

    Thanks in advance!

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Optimizing Hybrids

    A classic build, the Dragonborn Sorcadin, but there a slight wrinkle. You can only take the Hybrid Talent feat once, so you choose between the dragon magic and plate armor (get the plate armor!) for this character. I made the same mistake on my first hybrid. A common suggest is to either MC or otherwise into a better weapliment, a paladin does benefit from the tiny damage of a dagger. Focus on Str and Cha, which means you can pick just about any paladin power and half the sorcerer ones.

    Guide for starting 4E.
    4E Hybrid Chart.
    My 4E Homebrew.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

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