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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Awesome, that seems like a good compromise and also another question. Are biollurgical chassis blocked by violet filters? It says that it blocks living and undead but constructs are let through... Since biollurgical chassis are a mix of both... it is somewhat hard to tell
    Technically speaking biostructure is treated as both an 'object' and a 'creature' in game terms. Constructs (as in, the type) are the only creature type specifically allowed through a Violet filter. Since a chassis is an Aberration, it is blocked like any other living thing.

    EDIT

    And yes orichalcum is really really broken IMO as it almost completely negates the purpose for other generators.
    Haha, yeah, some stuff you just don't realize until someone else points it out to you. I like the idea of having a battery in the system, but people were right when they said it was totally gamechanging. So now you can have it, but at at a prohibitive cost.
    Last edited by Kellus; 2012-08-24 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    When preparing a principle, can you choose to get a lower effective roll than you actually rolled other than a one?

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    When preparing a principle, can you choose to get a lower effective roll than you actually rolled other than a one?
    This has never been officially addressed, but based on the precedent of being able to choose to fail things like saving throws, I feel that it's a safe assumption that a skill check represents the maximum potential that you can work to. You can always choose to work at a level below your best, and claim any result on a skill check lower than what you actually rolled.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    So...

    Out of curiosity, how many manipulator limbs does the basic chassis get? And what kinda magic item slots/body slots do they have?

    I know you want to be open-ended, but you could design a creature with NI manipulators, and have it wield NI weapons...

    Also, if you have a PrC that gives you more options for grafts, could you add them to the chassis? You know, so I could make it grow shadow limbs or whatever.

    Also, a Grammarist//Xenoalchemist is pretty damn potent, what with free access to any damn graft of up to 4th level.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post
    Technically speaking biostructure is treated as both an 'object' and a 'creature' in game terms. Constructs (as in, the type) are the only creature type specifically allowed through a Violet filter. Since a chassis is an Aberration, it is blocked like any other living thing.

    EDIT



    Haha, yeah, some stuff you just don't realize until someone else points it out to you. I like the idea of having a battery in the system, but people were right when they said it was totally gamechanging. So now you can have it, but at at a prohibitive cost.

    Kk that makes sense.

    Oh and I didn't even notice the change to the Orichalcum .
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    So...

    Out of curiosity, how many manipulator limbs does the basic chassis get? And what kinda magic item slots/body slots do they have?
    Ah, good call! The default is two manipulator limbs as you might expect, and the regular allotment of body slots. But if you want to make something weird you can remove some body slots in favour of others at a rate of 2 sacrificed to 1 added. Extra limbs can be granted with a 4th level graft I believe. I'll edit that in there shortly, thank you.

    Also, if you have a PrC that gives you more options for grafts, could you add them to the chassis? You know, so I could make it grow shadow limbs or whatever.
    Erm... Tough call. I'm going to go with no for that particular case, because the text of the class feature reads:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me, a while ago!
    Starting at 5th level, whenever you attach a graft using shadow material harvested with your harvest shadow ability the graft works differently than normal.
    The shadow explicitly needs to come from the harvest shadow class feature. Now, if you had (hypothetically) a prestige class that just taught you six new grafts to add to the list, they would be perfectly fine to add to your creations.

    Also, a Grammarist//Xenoalchemist is pretty damn potent, what with free access to any damn graft of up to 4th level.
    Yes, it would be pretty awesome, since you could grow the grafts you want and then cut it open to harvest them and put them on other people. That actually sounds like a killer character concept...

    But it's actually not unbalanced, since the assumption going into xenoalchemy is that you'll be able to find the material you want to make the grafts you want. That's why people starting at higher levels can just claim any grafts they want from their past, since the grafts are reasonably balanced. Anyway, like anything in gramarie it takes hours to do any of that, and even longer to harvest and install grafts, so it's not like it's something you can do at the drop of a hat to slot out grafts. It's a useful trick, and has some neat applications, but it's not like it's gamebreaking or anything.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Hey more of a question with grafts than Magitek but I felt it relevant. Would you rule that a biollurgical chassis with the eye of antimagic graft would qualify for feats that a beholder can take to adjust its own antimagic eye?

    Also can you adjust their feats they get from their first HD?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Hey more of a question with grafts than Magitek but I felt it relevant. Would you rule that a biollurgical chassis with the eye of antimagic graft would qualify for feats that a beholder can take to adjust its own antimagic eye?
    This is the old Beholder Mage question, because most of those feats, like Focused Antimagic, have a prerequisite of "Beholder". Actually what a beholder is that makes it fundamentally different from any other creature (and thus eligible for the feat or prestige class) is never clearly explained, which is all the more problematic given that the Beholder Mage is one of the most ludicrously overpowered prestige classes ever written. There are a million arguments about it, but I would tend in this scenario towards saying that even a biollurgic chassis shaped exactly like a beholder and with the antimage eye graft still isn't actually a beholder for the purposes of the prerequisites.

    Also can you adjust their feats they get from their first HD?
    Yes, along with picking their initial skills. That's just part of assigning Hit Dice, like normal.
    Last edited by Kellus; 2012-08-24 at 05:49 PM. Reason: g/p

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    I keep forgetting to ask this, can spectroconstruction be used to make arms and armor? Or mine?

    If it can be used for those things, do you need the appropriate craft or profession skill? Can I make a bunch of masterwork swords and armor for nothing but the cost of iron?

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    I keep forgetting to ask this, can spectroconstruction be used to make arms and armor? Or mine?

    If it can be used for those things, do you need the appropriate craft or profession skill? Can I make a bunch of masterwork swords and armor for nothing but the cost of iron?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lyre of Building
    ...magically construct buildings, mines, tunnels, ditches, or whatever...
    While an argument could be made for the ambiguity of the term 'whatever', it's fairly clear that it's intended to be used for actual construction or engineering projects and not skilled craftsmanship. It's not a fabricate effect.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post
    While an argument could be made for the ambiguity of the term 'whatever', it's fairly clear that it's intended to be used for actual construction or engineering projects and not skilled craftsmanship. It's not a fabricate effect.
    I figured it wouldn't work for crafting, but man-hours required to build a tank being on the list made me question it.

    So, even with the appropriate skills, I couldn't use spectroconstruction to make weapons and armor? Just making sure. (Honestly, I'm only asking this so that I can definitively say no [barring DM alteration] if this comes up in the campaign thread)

    Also, can it only be used to create a mine, or can it do actual mining as well? I'm not sure that falls under of a construction or engineering project or not.
    Last edited by Omnicrat; 2012-08-24 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Could a single cu ft of Silver be used for both a transformer and an ascending engine?

    Or would I need two distinct cu ft?

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Could a single cu ft of Silver be used for both a transformer and an ascending engine?

    Or would I need two distinct cu ft?
    No, material can be used for multiple simultaneous purposes like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat
    Also, can it only be used to create a mine, or can it do actual mining as well? I'm not sure that falls under of a construction or engineering project or not.
    It's a very broad subject, and there's a million what-if's that you could bring up, but the easiest guideline is that it's 7,200 hours of unskilled labour. If it's something that 1st-level commoners could do, you can use spectroconstruction to do it.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post
    It's a very broad subject, and there's a million what-if's that you could bring up, but the easiest guideline is that it's 7,200 hours of unskilled labour. If it's something that 1st-level commoners could do, you can use spectroconstruction to do it.
    Alright. Sorry if I was bothering you with my many questions about a small aspect of this incredible class.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnicrat View Post
    Alright. Sorry if I was bothering you with my many questions about a small aspect of this incredible class.
    No problem, I'm glad that you like it, and I'm happy to answer any questions I can about the system. I mean, I wrote it, but I'm not going to claim to know everything you can do with it, not even close.

    For those interested, I've also been bouncing around some other ideas for player options today, and I wrote a first draft of a new base class suitable for adventures in a gramarie-enabled setting, the saboteur. The idea is that it's a skilled character who specializes in disassembling and mucking around with other people's gramarie. Assuming all goes well, it should be up in the next couple of days. Sorry for the delay on the rest of the prestige classes, but we'll get there!

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post


    Thanks! I'll try to get the arcanitect and the graughtsman done today.

    EDIT: Sorry, you said alchemetry. I'll move the contractor in front of the arcanitect on the queue, then.
    Great, Thanks!
    Oh, good call. A chassis can have unlimited one free 0-level graft, and they're partially mutated in offspring, so that children look similar but slightly different to their parents. Thank you for reminding me, I'll update that!
    Oh, Thanks for this as well. And for teh body slot swapping too. Oh my, now I want to play as Biollurgical Biollurgist.
    Last edited by Salbazier; 2012-08-25 at 07:59 AM.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Out of curiosity, do the Artisan feat from the ECS have any interaction with Gramarie? It would be nice to have that 25% reduction in preparation time for principles, but it seems the terminology is distinct between the two.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    If semi-spaces are tethered to, say, a mount's saddlebags, and there were people standing upright in the semi-spaces so that their upper bodies were sticking out, would the weight affect the mount? Would the people sticking out of the semi-spaces affect the bulk of a cart they are tethered to? What about semi-space armor?
    Speaking of Yggdratectural exploits, what about semi-space armor? It wouldn't weigh anything at all, projectiles would usually end up in the semi-spaces, and it would provide virtual immunity to melee attacks.
    Also, are semi-space portals transparent from behind? If they are, a character could be completely covered in semi-spaces and be nigh invulnerable.
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    If my opinion counts for much, I'd say that semi-spaces would follow similar rules to bags of holding in that it is destroyed if it gets punctured in any way. What that means for energy damage is still up in the air, however.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanoblack View Post
    If my opinion counts for much, I'd say that semi-spaces would follow similar rules to bags of holding in that it is destroyed if it gets punctured in any way. What that means for energy damage is still up in the air, however.
    Oh really? I figured they worked more like portable holes that couldn't be folded up.
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    You might be right, but then that means we could do the same thing with portable holes. Are there any rules for damaging extra-dimensional spaces other than what's listed for the bag of holding?

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanoblack View Post
    You might be right, but then that means we could do the same thing with portable holes. Are there any rules for damaging extra-dimensional spaces other than what's listed for the bag of holding?
    Well I thought the portable hole is two dimensional so I don't know how you could break that. And no I don't think there are. There are rules about putting them in antimagic fields though in which case you can't access them anymore.


    Question though. If you had a huge 40 by 40 by 40ft room filled with cursed lead and a smaller room with floor walls ceiling covered in quicksilver would the quicksilver room be affected by the anti magic?
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanoblack View Post
    You might be right, but then that means we could do the same thing with portable holes. Are there any rules for damaging extra-dimensional spaces other than what's listed for the bag of holding?
    Well I thought the portable hole is two dimensional so I don't know how you could break that. And no I don't think there are. There are rules about putting them in antimagic fields though in which case you can't access them anymore.


    Question though. If you had a huge 40 by 40 by 40ft room filled with cursed lead and a smaller room with floor walls ceiling covered in quicksilver would the quicksilver room be affected by the anti magic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazuki View Post
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Being a man of the Industrial age, I find biollurgy quite... lackluster.
    - CEO, Gramarie Manufacturing, shortly before he was persuaded to purchase some specimens for his, ahem, personal use


    A culture, specifically an Industrial Revolution-like era, enabled by Gramarie will probably look to biollurgy as a curiousity and definitely not worth granting equal rights. Especially since you can make them circuited and connected to the far more easily controllable Exotic Intelligence.

    Bodyguards and brute force, perhaps, although essentially limitless summons through the use of the Silver transformer is likely to be more cost efficient.

    The main point is that you can sculpt the thing quite easily, it can be of certain small sizes, you decide the appearance and you can give it mammalian reproduction...
    That allows rather more... well, let's just say that describing those uses will probably violate forum policy quite badly.

    And I can totally see a Gramarie-tech society using it that way. "Come on, we *make* the things, they're not people..."

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Having read through Biollurgy again, I think you should perhaps add a guideline for how much material makes a creature of which size.

    Also, my inner biochemist doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at seeing a creature that can breathe in nitrogen dioxide and exhale water vapor, and other such glorious madness.
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    Being a man of the Industrial age, I find biollurgy quite... lackluster.
    - CEO, Gramarie Manufacturing, shortly before he was persuaded to purchase some specimens for his, ahem, personal use


    A culture, specifically an Industrial Revolution-like era, enabled by Gramarie will probably look to biollurgy as a curiousity and definitely not worth granting equal rights. Especially since you can make them circuited and connected to the far more easily controllable Exotic Intelligence.
    However, Exotic Intelligence only has Telepathy and Mindsight within the radius of the bubble. Circuited Biollurgical Chassis can provide your Exotic Intelligence with access to other senses. With the Level 1-4 Xenoalchemist Grafts you can add Lowlight Vision, Detect Magic, Scent, seeing through natural and magical darkness, Blindsense 30 ft, Blindsight 60 ft, ability to see incorporeal creatures and things on the Ethereal Plane as they overlap with the Material Plane, Telepathy 200 ft, Tremorsense 60 ft or True Seeing. Also, there's the Mental Relay Graft you can add on top of the Telepathy.

    "A mental relay is an advanced graft which allows you to act as a go-between for other telepathic creatures. If you're in telepathic contact with an ally who can use mind-affecting abilities, they can use their abilities through your mind and senses, effectively using you as the source of the ability."

    By automating the production of Circuited Biollurgical Chassis with Telepathy 200 ft, Mental Relay, and then filling out the other slots with a variety of other senses, your Exotic Intelligence can become excessively aware of everything within like a mile. You could pretty much imitate System Shock 2 and have Xerxes linked with The Many who possess a hive mind. And that's awesome.
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Also, my inner biochemist doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at seeing a creature that can breathe in nitrogen dioxide and exhale water vapor, and other such glorious madness.
    Or worse still, inhaling hydrogen and excreting iron.

    Fusion powered biology, now coming to your doorstep!

    (all right, ok, oxygen is one of them steps to iron, you can breathe that then)


    Oh, it would be a very VERY good idea not to kick the dog. If you want to, please tell me two weeks in advance so I can find a suitable replacement city to go to.
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    EDIT: I think I'll definitely laugh. Probably on the MUHAHAHA evil-overlord style.
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-08-25 at 06:43 PM.

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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Hm. Make a creature of diminutive size and graft the telepathy 200 ft., another sense and mental relay on it.
    Use it as a sling bullet to covertly use mind-affecting abilities on people.
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    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    Okay, some great questions about Yggdratecture! After thinking on it, I'm going to introduce three new clauses for semi-spaces:

    1. Anything protruding from a semi-space applies its weight to the object or creature it's tethered to. Fixed semi-spaces can hold maximum weight like an immovable rod, very much like a kaleidomantic filter fixed in space.

    2. A semi-space is destroyed when it sustains piercing or slashing damage total damage equal to the Forgery check. You can also repair it with further Forgery checks later on if it gets torn.

    3. Someone can use a portal as cover (although you can't see through the back of it), but any attack or effect that misses them because of the cover strikes the space instead. Open portals also leave a semi-space vulnerable to area effects.

    Thanks for the sharp reading and edge scenarios!

    Quote Originally Posted by General Patton
    By automating the production of Circuited Biollurgical Chassis with Telepathy 200 ft, Mental Relay, and then filling out the other slots with a variety of other senses, your Exotic Intelligence can become excessively aware of everything within like a mile. You could pretty much imitate System Shock 2 and have Xerxes linked with The Many who possess a hive mind. And that's awesome.
    Eeeeeeeheehee

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan
    Having read through Biollurgy again, I think you should perhaps add a guideline for how much material makes a creature of which size.
    There are already rules for volume and size categories here that describe size category based on height, length, and space. I don't think it needs too much more elaboration.

    Also, my inner biochemist doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at seeing a creature that can breathe in nitrogen dioxide and exhale water vapor, and other such glorious madness.
    Seems legit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva
    Well I thought the portable hole is two dimensional so I don't know how you could break that. And no I don't think there are. There are rules about putting them in antimagic fields though in which case you can't access them anymore.
    All gramarie by default is supernatural in nature, so it stops working in an antimagic field. Until 20th level, of course.

    Question though. If you had a huge 40 by 40 by 40ft room filled with cursed lead and a smaller room with floor walls ceiling covered in quicksilver would the quicksilver room be affected by the anti magic?
    Similarly, if the quicksilver was made by a gramarist that doesn't have the class feature The Architect, the quicksilver stops working in the area of an antimagic field, since the time-quickening is a supernatural effect.

    EDIT

    Quote Originally Posted by jseah
    And I can totally see a Gramarie-tech society using it that way.
    Haha, I guess it would depend on the society. But using our society as a model, I think you're pretty much spot-on.
    Last edited by Kellus; 2012-08-25 at 07:20 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: She Blinded Me with Science! (Magitek That Doesn't Make Me Cry Myself To Sleep)

    General Patton:
    Aha, I am unfamiliar with xenoalchemy grafts and so was unaware of their many useful features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post
    Haha, I guess it would depend on the society. But using our society as a model, I think you're pretty much spot-on.
    At my risk..
    Spoiler
    Show
    Custom-made prostitute slaves... Bad enough. =|

    Hint: small size. Even worse. =(

    I don't think our current society will tolerate that. Not for very long at any rate.

    A Gramarie-tech society freshly heading into a fantasy Renaissance-era world? If they are modeled off the actual steam Industrial Revolution, then yes they will tolerate it. Very much yes.


    On another note:
    Breathe water vapour, exhale nitrogen dioxide. Have native temperature be a hot 40-50*C. Put in hot and humid room.

    Collect nitric acid runoff, top-up water, add potassium (from bat****, which is in apparently unlimited supply given how free wizards are with their fireballs, or certain rocks) and get potassium nitrate.
    Or just neutralize with something else (let it chew on some metal, hint: magnesium is used in chlorophyll...; kaleidomantic filters will likely kill your nitrate and so cannot be used)

    You have a Gramarie-tech version of the Haber process, producing freaking nitrate fertilizer. A Gramarie-tech society is WELL on their way to the Green Revolution, which is arguably just as important as the Industrial one.
    Oh, and making gunpowder just got a whole hell of alot easier.

    EDIT:
    Oh, and the provision of ozone also allows from some rather interesting chemistry.
    Last edited by jseah; 2012-08-25 at 07:36 PM.

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