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    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Animal Growth
    Transmutation
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Targets: One animal (Gargantuan or smaller).
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    A number of animals grow to twice their normal size and eight times their normal weight. This alteration changes each animalís size category to the next largest, the target gains a +4 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. All its natural weapons increase by one die size.
    This spell does not increase the effected creature's speed.
    The spell also grants each subject +2 bonus to its Natural Armour. If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing itó the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.
    All equipment worn or carried by an animal is similarly enlarged by the spell, though this change has no effect on the magical properties of any such equipment.
    Any enlarged item that leaves the enlarged creatureís possession instantly returns to its normal size.
    The spell gives no means of command or influence over the enlarged animals.
    Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

    Animal Shape
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: Up to one willing creature every 2 levels, all within 30 ft. of each other
    Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
    Saving Throw: None; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
    You transform up to one willing creature per caster level into an animal form selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), wolf, manta ray, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid; the spell has no effect on unwilling creatures. Use the alternate form special ability to determine each targetís new abilities. All creatures must take the same kind of animal form. Recipients remain in the animal form until the spell expires or until you dismiss it for all recipients. In addition, an individual subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell for that subject alone.

    Animate Objects
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One Small object per caster level; see text
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    You imbue inanimate objects with mobility and a semblance of life. Each such animated object then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate.
    An animated object can be of any nonmagical material. You may animate one Small or smaller object or an equivalent number of larger objects per caster level. A Medium object counts as two Small or smaller objects, a Large object as four. You can change the designated target or targets as a move action, as if directing an active spell.
    This spell cannot animate objects carried or worn by a creature.

    Animate Plants
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One Large plant per three caster levels or all plants within range; see text
    Duration: 1 round/level or 10 minutes/level; see text
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    You imbue inanimate plants with mobility and a semblance of life. Each animated plant then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate as though it were an animated object of the appropriate size category. You may animate one Large or smaller plant, or an equivalent number of larger plants, per three caster levels. A Huge plant counts as two Large or smaller plants.
    Use the statistics for animated objects, except that plants smaller than Large usually donít have hardness, and the animated plants are treated as plants instead of constructs for the purpose of any effect that depends on their type).
    Animate plants cannot affect plant creatures, nor does it affect nonliving vegetable material.
    Alternatively, you may imbue all plants within range with a degree of mobility, which allows them to entwine around creatures in the area. This usage of the spell duplicates the effect of an entangle spell. Spell resistance does not keep creatures from being entangled. This effect lasts 10 minutes per per caster level.

    Antilife Shell
    Abjuration
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: 10 ft.
    Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.
    The effect hedges out animals, aberrations, dragons, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, plants, and vermin, but not constructs, elementals, outsiders, or undead.
    Any creature of an effected type attempting to enter the area must attempt a will save. If the save succeeds, that creature may enter and leave the area normally and is unaffected by that casting of the spell. If the save fails, the creature cannot enter the shell with any part of their body, preventing them from approaching or attacking anything within the antilife shell for the duration of the spell.
    This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

    Antipathy
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: One location (up to a 10-ft. cube/level) or one object
    Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You cause an object or location to emanate magical vibrations that repel either a specific kind of intelligent creature or creatures of a particular alignment, as defined by you. The kind of creature to be affected must be named specifically. A creature subtype is not specific enough. Likewise, the specific alignment to be repelled must be named.
    Creatures of the designated kind or alignment feel an overpowering urge to leave the area or to avoid the affected item.
    A compulsion forces them to abandon the area or item, shunning it and never willingly returning to it while the spell is in effect. A creature that makes a successful saving throw can stay in the area or touch the item but feels uncomfortable doing so.
    Antipathy counters and dispels sympathy.
    Arcane Material Component: A lump of alum soaked in vinegar.

    Antiplant Shell
    Abjuration
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 10 ft.
    Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    The antiplant shell spell creates an invisible, mobile barrier that keeps all creatures within the shell protected from attacks by plant creatures or animated plants.
    Any plant creature attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack creatures within the shell, or move through the shell's area, must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the creature can attack normally and is unaffected by that casting of the spell. If the save fails, the opponent canít follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it canít directly attack anything within the shell, or enter the shell for the duration of the spell.
    This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

    Arcane Eye
    Divination (Scrying)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: Unlimited
    Effect: Magical sensor
    Duration: Concentration (Maximum of 1 minute)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    You create an invisible magical sensor that sends you visual information. You create the arcane eye in your own square, but it can then travel outside your line of sight without hindrance. An arcane eye travels at 10 feet per round (100 feet per minute) if viewing an area ahead as a human would (primarily looking at the floor) or 5 feet per round (50 feet per minute) if examining the ceiling and walls as well as the floor ahead. The arcane eye may only see in as much detail as a normal mundane human.
    The eye can travel in any direction as long as the spell lasts. Solid barriers block its passage, but it can pass through a hole or space as small as 1 inch in diameter. The eye canít enter another plane of existence, even through a gate or similar magical portal.
    You must concentrate to use an arcane eye. If you do not concentrate, the eye winks out of existence.
    Material Component: A dead fly.

    Atonement
    Abjuration
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 hour
    Range: Touch
    Target: Living creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    This spell removes the burden of evil acts or misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds. Many casters first assign a subject of this sort a quest (see geas/quest) or similar penance to determine whether the creature is truly contrite before casting the atonement spell on its behalf.
    Atonement may be cast for one of several purposes, depending on the version selected.
    Reverse Magical Alignment Change
    If a creature has had its alignment magically changed, atonement returns its alignment to its original status at no cost in experience points.
    Restore Class
    A paladin who has lost her class features due to committing an evil act may have her paladinhood restored to her by this spell without the usual required time of repentance.
    Though the spell description refers to evil acts, atonement can also be used on any creature that has performed acts against its alignment, whether those acts are evil, good, chaotic, or lawful.
    Material Component: Burning incense worth 25 GP.

    Bear's Endurance, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass bearís endurance works like bearís endurance, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Black Tentacles
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
    Duration: 1 round/level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfootóincluding water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength.
    Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to half your caster level and a Strength score of 16. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to half your caster level +7. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.
    Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.
    Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who arenít grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed.
    Material Component: A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid.

    Blade Barrier
    Evocation [Force]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Effect: Wall of whirling blades up to 20 ft. long/ level, or a ringed wall of whirling blades with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels; either form 20 ft. high
    Duration: 1 round/level (D)
    Saving Throw: Reflex half or Reflex negates; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades shaped of pure force springs into existence. Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 6d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.
    If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall (ending up on the side of its choice) and thus take no damage by making a successful Reflex save.
    A blade barrier provides cover (+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus on Reflex saves) against attacks made through it.

    Blight
    Necromancy
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude half; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    This spell withers a single plant or plant creature of up to large size. An affected plant creature takes 1d6 points of damage per 2 caster levels (maximum 5d6) and may attempt a Fortitude saving throw for half damage. A plant that isnít a creature doesnít receive a save and immediately withers and dies, though its remains may still be in place unaffected.
    This spell has no effect on the soil or surrounding plant life.

    Bull's Strength, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass bull's strength works like Bull's Strength, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Cat's Grace, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass cat's grace works like Cat's Grace, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Chaos Hammer
    Evocation [Chaotic]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous (1 round); see text
    Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You unleash chaotic power to smite your enemies. The power takes the form of a multicolored explosion of leaping, ricocheting energy. Only lawful and neutral (not chaotic) creatures are harmed by the spell.
    The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 3d8) to lawful creatures and slows them for 1 round (see the slow spell). A successful Will save reduces the damage by half and negates the slow effect.
    The spell deals only half damage against creatures who are neither lawful nor chaotic, and they are not slowed. Such a creature can reduce the damage by half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.

    Charm Monster
    Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: 3
    Target: One living creature
    Duration: Ten minutes/level
    This spell functions like charm person, except that the effect is not restricted by creature type or size.

    Confusion
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Targets: All creatures in a 10-ft. radius burst
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    This spell causes the targets to become confused, making them unable to independently determine what they will do.

    Roll on the following table at the beginning of each subjectís turn each round to see what the subject does in that round.

    d% Behavior
    01-10 Attack caster with melee or ranged weapons (or close with caster if attack is not possible).
    11-40 Act normally.
    41-60 Do nothing but babble incoherently.
    61-80 Flee away from caster at top possible speed.
    81-100 Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subjectís self).
    A confused character who canít carry out the indicated action does nothing but babble incoherently. Attackers are not at any special advantage when attacking a confused character. Any confused character who is attacked automatically attacks its attackers on its next turn, as long as it is still confused when its turn comes. Note that a confused character will not make attacks of opportunity against any creature that it is not already devoted to attacking (either because of its most recent action or because it has just been attacked).

    Arcane Material Component: A set of three nut shells.

    Detect Animals or Plants
    Divination
    Level: 0
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 60 Ft
    Area: Cone-shaped emanation
    Duration: Concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    You can detect a particular kind of animal or plant in a cone emanating out from you in whatever direction you face. You must think of a kind of animal or plant when using the spell, but you can change the animal or plant kind each round. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you search a particular area or focus on a specific kind of animal or plant.
    1st Round
    Presence or absence of that kind of animal or plant in the area.
    2nd Round
    Number of individuals of the specified kind in the area, and the condition of the healthiest specimen.
    3rd Round
    The condition (see below) and location of each individual present. If an animal or plant is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.
    Conditions
    For purposes of this spell, the categories of condition are as follows:
    Normal
    Has at least 90% of full normal hit points, free of disease.
    Fair
    30% to 90% of full normal hit points remaining.
    Poor
    Less than 30% of full normal hit points remaining, afflicted with a disease, or suffering from a debilitating injury.
    Weak
    0 or fewer hit points remaining, afflicted with a disease in the terminal stage, or crippled.
    If a creature falls into more than one category, the spell indicates the weaker of the two.

    Each round you can turn to detect a kind of animal or plant in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

    Eagle's Splendour, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass eagle's splendour works like Eagle's Splendour, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Enlarge Person, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One humanoid creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass enlarge person works like Enlarge Person, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Fox's Cunning, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass fox's cunning works like Fox's Cunning, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Freezing Sphere
    Evocation [Cold]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Target, Effect, or Area: See text
    Duration: Instantaneous or 1 round/level; see text
    Saving Throw: Reflex half; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Freezing sphere creates a frigid globe of cold energy that streaks from your fingertips to the location you select, where it explodes in a 10-foot-radius burst, dealing 1d6 points of cold damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each creature in the area.
    If the freezing sphere strikes a body of water or a liquid that is principally water (not including water-based creatures), it freezes the liquid to a depth of 6 inches over an area equal to 100 square feet (a 10-foot square). This ice lasts for 1 round per caster level. Creatures that were swimming on the surface of frozen water become trapped in the ice. Attempting to break free is a full-round action. A trapped creature must make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 15 Escape Artist check to do so.
    Focus - A small crystal sphere.

    Globe of Invulnerability
    Abjuration
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 10 ft.
    Area: 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you
    Duration: 1 round/level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 2nd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 3rd level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.
    Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.
    If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.
    Material Component - A glass or crystal bead that shatters at the expiration of the spell.

    Hallucinatory Terrain
    Illusion (Glamer)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 10 minutes
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: One 30-ft. cube/level (S)
    Duration: 10 minutes / level (D)
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
    Spell Resistance: No
    You make natural terrain look, sound, and smell like some other sort of natural terrain. Structures, equipment, and creatures within the area are not hidden or changed in appearance.
    Material Component - A stone, a twig, and a bit of green plant.

    Holy Smite
    Evocation [Good]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous (1 round); see text
    Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You draw down holy power to smite your enemies. Only evil and neutral creatures are harmed by the spell; good creatures are unaffected.
    The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 3d8) to evil creatures and blinds them for 1 round. A successful Will save reduces the damage by half and negates the blind effect.
    The spell deals only half damage against creatures who are neither good nor evil, and they are not blinded. Such a creature can reduce the damage by half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.

    Ice Storm
    Evocation [Cold]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: Cylinder (20-ft. radius, 40 ft. high)
    Duration: 1 full round
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Great magical hailstones pound down for 1 full round, dealing 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage plus an additional 1d6 points of cold damage per two caster levels to every creature in the area. A -4 penalty applies to each Listen check made within the ice stormís effect, and all land movement within its area is at half speed. At the end of the duration, the hail disappears, leaving no aftereffects (other than the damage dealt). A successful fortitude save halves the cold damage taken.
    Arcane Material Component - A pinch of dust and a few drops of water.

    Illusory Wall
    Illusion (Figment)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Effect: Image 1 ft. by 10 ft. by 10 ft.
    Duration: 1 Hour / level
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
    Spell Resistance: No
    This spell creates the illusion of a wall, floor, ceiling, or similar surface. It appears absolutely real when viewed, but physical objects can pass through it without difficulty. When the spell is used to hide pits, traps, or normal doors, any detection abilities that do not require sight work normally. Touch or a probing search reveals the true nature of the surface, though such measures do not cause the illusion to disappear.

    Incendiary Cloud
    Conjuration (Creation) [Fire]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Effect: Cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Reflex half; see text
    Spell Resistance: No
    An incendiary cloud spell creates a cloud of roiling smoke shot through with white-hot embers. The smoke obscures all sight as a fog cloud does. In addition, the white-hot embers within the cloud deal 1d6 points of fire damage to everything within the cloud on your turn each round. All targets can make Reflex saves each round to take half damage.
    As with fog cloud, wind disperses the smoke, and the spell canít be cast underwater.

    Locate Creature
    Divination
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: Circle, centered on you, with a radius of 100 ft. + 10 ft./level
    Duration: 1 min./level
    This spell functions like locate object, except this spell locates a known or familiar creature.
    You slowly turn and sense when you are facing in the direction of the creature to be located, provided it is within range. You also know in which direction the creature is moving, if any.
    The spell can locate a creature of a specific kind or a specific creature known to you. It cannot find a creature of a certain type. To find a kind of creature, you must have seen such a creature up close (within 30 feet) at least once.
    Running water blocks the spell. It cannot detect objects. It can be fooled by mislead, nondetection, and polymorph spells.
    Material Component - A bit of fur from a bloodhound.

    Minor Creation
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: 0 ft.
    Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter, up to 1 cu. ft./level
    Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    You create a nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter. The volume of the item created cannot exceed 1 cubic foot per caster level. You must succeed on an appropriate skill check to make a complex item.
    Attempting to use any created object as a material component causes the spell to fail.
    Material Component - A tiny piece of matter of the same sort of item you plan to create with minor creation.

    Order's Wrath
    Evocation [Lawful]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous (1 round); see text
    Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You channel lawful power to smite enemies. The power takes the form of a three-dimensional grid of energy. Only chaotic and neutral (not lawful) creatures are harmed by the spell.
    The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 3d8) to chaotic creatures and causes them to be dazed for 1 round. A successful Will save reduces the damage by half and negates the dazing effect.
    The spell deals only half damage against creatures who are neither lawful nor chaotic, and they are not dazed. Such a creature can reduce the damage by half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.

    Owl's Wisdom, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass owl's wisdom works like Owl's Wisdom, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Phantasmal Killer
    Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Target: One living creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with), then Fortitude partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subjectís subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spellís subject can see the phantasmal killer. You see only a vague shape. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or take 6D6 damage, with a fortitude save for half.
    If the subject of a phantasmal killer attack succeeds in disbelieving and is wearing a helm of telepathy, the beast can be turned upon you. You must then disbelieve it or become subject to its deadly fear attack.

    Polar Ray
    Evocation [Cold]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Effect: Ray
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    A blue-white ray of freezing air and ice springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage to a target. The ray deals 1d6 points of cold damage per caster level (maximum 8d6).
    Focus - A small, white ceramic cone or prism.

    Polymorph
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The new form must be within two size categories of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 6 HD at 6th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.
    You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).
    You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.
    If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.
    You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, gills and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal. If your new form grants you a Fly speed, your manoeuvrability is one grade worse than normal (to a minimum of clumsy).
    You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
    You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesnít change the creature type or subtype.
    You can freely designate the new formís minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new formís significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new formís kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new formís race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.
    When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and canít wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

    Reduce Person, Mass
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Targets: One humanoid creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
    Duration: 1 round / level
    Mass enlarge person works like Reduce Person, except that it affects multiple creatures.

    Resilient Sphere
    Evocation [Force]
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Effect: 1-ft.-diameter/level sphere, centered around a creature
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: Reflex negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the creature is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. Nothing can pass through the sphere, inside or out, though the subject can breathe normally.
    The sphere has a hardness of 20 and 100 hit points. Creatures can hit the sphere automatically. Should the sphere's hit points drop to 0 it is breached and winks out of existence. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 25 + caster level.
    The subject may struggle, but the sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within.
    Material Component - A hemispherical piece of clear crystal and a matching hemispherical piece of gum arabic.

    Restoration
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, M
    This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it also restores 1D4 points permanently drained from a single ability score (your choice if more than one is drained). It also eliminates any fatigue or exhaustion suffered by the target.
    Material Component - Diamond dust worth 50 gp that is sprinkled over the target.

    Rusting Grasp
    Transmutation
    Level: 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One nonmagical ferrous object (or the volume of the object within 3 ft. of the touched point) or one ferrous creature
    Duration: See text
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Any iron or iron alloy item you touch becomes instantaneously rusted, pitted, and worthless, effectively destroyed. If the item is so large that it cannot fit within a 3-foot radius a 3-foot-radius volume of the metal is rusted and destroyed. Magic items made of metal are immune to this spell.
    You may employ rusting grasp in combat with a successful melee touch attack. Rusting grasp used in this way instantaneously destroys 1d6 points of Armor Class gained from metal armor (to the maximum amount of protection the armor offered) through corrosion.
    Weapons in use by an opponent targeted by the spell are more difficult to grasp. You must succeed on a melee touch attack against the weapon. A metal weapon that is hit is destroyed.
    Note: Striking at an opponentís weapon provokes an attack of opportunity. Also, you must touch the weapon and not the other way around.
    Against a ferrous creature, rusting grasp instantaneously deals 3d6 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +15) per successful attack.

    Silence
    Illusion (Glamer)
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
    Duration: 1 minute /level (D)
    Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
    Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)
    Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. Unwilling creatures in the area of effect can attempt a Will save to negate the spell's effect on them and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creatureís possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.

    Solid Fog
    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: 3
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. level)
    Effect: Fog spreads in 20-ft. radius, 20 ft. high
    Components: V, S, M
    Duration: Concentration +1 round / Caster level.
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No
    This spell functions like fog cloud, but in addition to obscuring sight, the solid fog is so thick that any creature attempting to move through it is reduced to half its movement speed, to a minimum of 5 feet, and it takes a -2 penalty on all melee attack and melee damage rolls. The vapors prevent effective ranged weapon attacks (except for magic rays and the like). A creature or object that falls into solid fog is slowed, so that each 10 feet of vapor that it passes through reduces falling damage by 1d6. A creature canít take a 5-foot step while in solid fog.
    Only a severe wind (31+ mph) disperses these vapors, and it does so in 1 round.
    Material Component: A pinch of dried, powdered peas combined with powdered animal hoof.

    Unholy Blight
    Evocation [Evil]
    Level: 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: 20-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous (1 round); see text
    Saving Throw: Will partial; see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You call up unholy power to smite your enemies. The power takes the form of a cold, cloying miasma of greasy darkness. Only good and neutral (not Evil) creatures are harmed by the spell.
    The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 3d8) to good creatures and causes them to be sickened for 1 round. A successful Will save reduces the damage by half and negates the sickening effect.
    The spell deals only half damage against creatures who are neither good nor evil, and they are not sickened. Such a creature can reduce the damage by half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.

    Core Spells modified to attempt to make them compatible with E6 principles. As ever, the goal is to expand options and include iconic spells without greatly increasing the power level, so if anyone has suggestions on whether these are okay or need further tuning, it would be a appreciated.
    Last edited by Kholai; 2012-08-19 at 08:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Why not just go Pathfinder and remove the XP cost altogether? Exchanging it for a hit points sucks for classes who already have low hit points.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either.

    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Primarily because I want there to be an actual cost for the creation of magic items. If it's gold only, then magic items will by their very nature be common, because why wouldn't a mage make a few whenever they had some downtime? Why wouldn't every mage take at least one crafting feat to guarantee themselves a lucrative profession?

    As you've said, to low hitpoint mages (I have followed Pathfinder in that no PC class spellcaster has lower than a D6 hitdie at least) 1 HP is a big deal, so the number of magic items (and the number of mages willing to sacrifice their lifeforce to make them) is low and the items they create are special (and expensive!).

    This would probably be coupled with a one-off feat which gives a reserve of 10 "phantom HP", which only applies to Item creation. After which they can take Toughness feats over and over like everyone else, feats aren't in short supply after all.

    It has similarities to the craft points UA alternative system, but with health instead.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    no, just no. making somthing required to be effective make you pay somthing so that you get killed by a cat is a bad plan. I would suggest the removal of all item creation feats, and legitamize WBL.

    also the meta magic feats... once per day? once per flipping day? I guess at E6 there is only so many spells you can cast but still...
    I do like trading caster level for the benefit though, means I would actually use metamagic without cost decrease.

    I honestly don't see the harm in letting them use the meta at will this way. the minor boosts in damage are counter balanced by the lost caster level(s), which allow it to be countered, resisted, and dispelled more esaly.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Well, this would make magic very, very rarer.

    Considering a feat in E6 = 5 000 XP, a single potion would cost 1 667 XP to create. I'm pretty sure no spellcaster will sell one for less than 10 000 gp. For a potion!

    also the meta magic feats... once per day? once per flipping day? I guess at E6 there is only so many spells you can cast but still...
    I do like trading caster level for the benefit though, means I would actually use metamagic without cost decrease.
    Bobthe6th is right. Did you hear about Sudden Metamagic from Complete Arcane? This is an excellent alternative if you want to remove the ''higher spell slot'' from the rules. Sudden Quicken Spell can be used once a day, Sudden Silent Spell thrice, etc. If you increase the casting time and lower the caster level, there should be no limit.

    For background, the system planned will be based around E6 assumptions with rebalanced core classes and a moderate rework on magic.
    What do you plan to do, exactly? The class that needs the most modifications in E6 is probably the fighter, though. Magic is not that powerful in the first few levels either, but the fighter is crying because he only has bonus feats and nothing else.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-16 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Alright, thanks for this.

    I'll bring it back to the drawing board then, probably have each Item Creation feat add an amount of a pool of Crafting Points, and make it a flat 1 point invested per item made, using HP when you exceed your crafting pool.

    Concerning metamagic feats, daily limitation is removed unless it causes problems.

    My primary concern for unlimited use metamagic is actually extend spell, with a -1 CL and a round casting time literally every spell cast out of combat that can be extended will be extended. Heroism doesn't really care if it's CL 5 or CL 6 after all, but I'm prepared to see how it goes.

    What do you plan to do, exactly? The class that needs the most modifications in E6 is probably the fighter, though. Magic is not that powerful in the first few levels either, but the fighter is crying because he only has bonus feats and nothing else.
    Replacing Wizards, Clerics, Druids and Sorcerers with the Mage class, which follows more after the Beguiler/Warmage format with limited spell lists and abilities based on their speciality but full spontaneous access to their fields, combined with PF-style cantrips and a few other features I liked from PF.

    Standardising familiars/animal companions/mounts into the same overarching system, with standard features and variations being applied to it in a case by case basis rather than with three near identical variations being overlaid on top of one another.

    Non-mage classes gain a minimum of one ability per level, front loading reduced where possible and class features given a slightly faster progression in some cases. Capstones applied at level 6 in each class, and full BAB classes count as fighters of their level -2 for the purpose of Fighter feats.

    Where possible feats that offer tactical choices rather than numerical ones will be modified to become compatible with the system and new feats incorporated as necessary, and major class features that consist of gaining a bonus feat to do the job are instead handled as abilities which can then be stacked on top of those feats.

    The ranger's fighting style choices are expanded and rather than specific favoured enemies they gain a favoured terrain, and a smaller bonus against all types of enemies native to those terrains. The Paladin gains smite as an encounter ability along with auras that grant unique benefits that actually make them worth having along in a party.

    And yes, the Fighter receives a unique class feature on every single level.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    Concerning metamagic feats, daily limitation is removed unless it causes problems.

    My primary concern for unlimited use metamagic is actually extend spell, with a -1 CL and a round casting time literally every spell cast out of combat that can be extended will be extended. Heroism doesn't really care if it's CL 5 or CL 6 after all, but I'm prepared to see how it goes.
    well, they did spend a feat on it. so letting their spells last longer seems ok to me.
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Well, this would make magic very, very rarer.
    While gramatically icorrect, this.

    What cleric is going to craft a heal potion if it costs 1 hp to make. Crafting 7 of any kind is the same (using statiscal averages for d6 hitdice and 10 con) as losing 2 levels worth of hitpoints.
    Why craft a potion?
    There would be almost litterally no NPC or PC enchanters, or all of the enchanters finding ways to replace said HP, or a new enchantment method.

    Maybe making it a semi-permanent but larger drain would work better, say d6/whatever(Perhaps 1 hitdice, balancing low HP and high HP classes) for 1 week/(or other), otherwise your worlds magic gets restricted to actual casters.
    Unless your aiming at low magic, in which case you have achieved.

    Or you could have a enchanter specific class that grants large hp and a toughness feat every so often to replace hp.

    You could also make it be based on a chance, say a spellcraft check with a dc based on the items power.
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    Maybe making it a semi-permanent but larger drain would work better...
    I like this. Actually, that could be done with negative levels, rather than just pure HP, to make the impact more even across your attributes. Craft an item, take a negative level for as long as it took to craft. That way, the more minor potions wouldn't be rarer than the expensive ones, and you wouldn't worry that you've screwed your future self over by making a magic item you want. Sacrifice in the present for gains in the present; don't let players sacrifice the future for the immediate. Also, people who craft, like the classic dwarven smith, can exist again.

    Also, not to derail the thread, but:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    And yes, the Fighter receives a unique class feature on every single level.
    Awesome. Might I suggest the "True Grit" class feature from jiriku's fix as inspiration? I think it captures the feel of the fighter's ability to fight through negative influences rather nicely. For my system, I renamed it to "Discipline" and tweaked the condition list slightly, but I think it's a great idea.
    Last edited by Vadskye; 2012-08-16 at 08:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    I like this. Actually, that could be done with negative levels, rather than just pure HP, to make the impact more even across your attributes. Craft an item, take a negative level for as long as it took to craft. That way, the more minor potions wouldn't be rarer than the expensive ones, and you wouldn't worry that you've screwed your future self over by making a magic item you want. Sacrifice in the present for gains in the present; don't let players sacrifice the future for the immediate. Also, people who craft, like the classic dwarven smith, can exist again.
    Oo, I do like that, you've been energy drained by the item you've made. I might up it to twice as many days as it took to make though - If you're crafting potions you'll be at momentarily two negative levels down, rather than your negative level disappearing just in time to receive the second one.

    Worst case you'll take a week or so to make something, two days to make something else and a potion the day after, leaving you at a very vulnerable level 3, and stopping you from crafting nice things until your level picks up again.

    Awesome. Might I suggest the "True Grit" class feature from jiriku's fix as inspiration? I think it captures the feel of the fighter's ability to fight through negative influences rather nicely. For my system, I renamed it to "Discipline" and tweaked the condition list slightly, but I think it's a great idea.
    Heck, it's my thread and I'm happy that my original purpose for it is largely fulfilled, so derail away.

    This is so far what I've got for the fighter (apologies in advance, this is a lot better laid out in my google doc):

    Spoiler
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    Fighter
    Hit Die: D10
    Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
    Good Fort.
    High BAB
    Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier)

    Ferocious Defender (Ex): Enemies provoke an attack of opportunity from the Fighter whenever they make a melee attack against a target that is not the Fighter. In the case of a full attack action, each individual attack provokes its own attack of opportunity.

    Bonus Feats: At 2nd level the fighter gains a bonus feat and an additional bonus feat every two fighter levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as [fighter] feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

    Parry (Ex): At second level the Fighter gains the ability to better defend themselves from assailants. Whenever an attacker attacks him in melee and he is not denied his dexterity bonus to AC, he may make an attack roll with any melee weapon they are holding as an immediate action, Should this attack roll be higher than the attacker's then the attack misses. The fighter may choose to parry an attack after learning the result of the opponent's attack, but not after damage is rolled.

    Disrupt (Ex): At third level, whenever a Fighter successfully hits with an attack of opportunity granted by their Ferocious Defender ability, the target gets a -4 attack penalty on the attack that provoked the attack of opportunity.

    Interpose (Ex): At fourth level, so long as the Fighter is conscious and capable of actions, they may choose as a free action during their turn to grant one ally within 5' Soft Cover from all ranged attacks until the next turn. Should any attack beat the ally's regular AC but miss due to this Cover bonus, then the attack strikes the Fighter, even if their attack roll would not normally be enough to do so. Should the ally move more than 5' away from the Fighter then this bonus is lost.
    The fighter may only grant one ally cover in this way per round.

    Steel Wall (Ex): At fifth level, a Fighter may choose to automatically succeed at a reflex save against an effect that allows a reflex save for half damage. They may only use this ability if they are wearing heavy armour.

    Momentum (Ex): At fifth level the Fighter may make an additional attack of opportunity per turn. This stacks with any additional attacks of opportunity provided by Combat Reflexes.

    Warmaster (Ex): At sixth level, the Fighter may Take 10 on a single attack roll per round, this may be on a Parry roll, an Attack of Opportunity or any other special attack requiring an attack roll.


    Rather than giving them anything mystical at all, I just wanted a business-like master of combat, nothing mystical, just a serious threat that requires the enemy to focus on them or suffer.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    Oo, I do like that, you've been energy drained by the item you've made. I might up it to twice as many days as it took to make though - If you're crafting potions you'll be at momentarily two negative levels down, rather than your negative level disappearing just in time to receive the second one.

    Worst case you'll take a week or so to make something, two days to make something else and a potion the day after, leaving you at a very vulnerable level 3, and stopping you from crafting nice things until your level picks up again.
    I am amused - when I originally wrote that, I put it at two days of drain per day of crafting. I changed it because taking two days to recover from a single potion of cure light wounds feels a bit wrong to me, but I do like it in general. Maybe the normal rule is two days per day of crafting, but if the item only took a full day to craft because that's the minimum, it only takes a day to recover. That way, you can still make one cure light wounds potion per day, which I think is necessary if you want a world where it has the same price that it currently does.



    Heck, it's my thread and I'm happy that my original purpose for it is largely fulfilled, so derail away.

    This is so far what I've got for the fighter (apologies in advance, this is a lot better laid out in my google doc):

    Spoiler
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    Fighter
    Hit Die: D10
    Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
    Good Fort.
    High BAB
    Skill Points: (4 + Int modifier)

    Ferocious Defender (Ex): Enemies provoke an attack of opportunity from the Fighter whenever they make a melee attack against a target that is not the Fighter. In the case of a full attack action, each individual attack provokes its own attack of opportunity.

    Bonus Feats: At 2nd level the fighter gains a bonus feat and an additional bonus feat every two fighter levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as [fighter] feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

    Parry (Ex): At second level the Fighter gains the ability to better defend themselves from assailants. Whenever an attacker attacks him in melee and he is not denied his dexterity bonus to AC, he may make an attack roll with any melee weapon they are holding as an immediate action, Should this attack roll be higher than the attacker's then the attack misses. The fighter may choose to parry an attack after learning the result of the opponent's attack, but not after damage is rolled.

    Disrupt (Ex): At third level, whenever a Fighter successfully hits with an attack of opportunity granted by their Ferocious Defender ability, the target gets a -4 attack penalty on the attack that provoked the attack of opportunity.

    Interpose (Ex): At fourth level, so long as the Fighter is conscious and capable of actions, they may choose as a free action during their turn to grant one ally within 5' Soft Cover from all ranged attacks until the next turn. Should any attack beat the ally's regular AC but miss due to this Cover bonus, then the attack strikes the Fighter, even if their attack roll would not normally be enough to do so. Should the ally move more than 5' away from the Fighter then this bonus is lost.
    The fighter may only grant one ally cover in this way per round.

    Steel Wall (Ex): At fifth level, a Fighter may choose to automatically succeed at a reflex save against an effect that allows a reflex save for half damage. They may only use this ability if they are wearing heavy armour.

    Momentum (Ex): At fifth level the Fighter may make an additional attack of opportunity per turn. This stacks with any additional attacks of opportunity provided by Combat Reflexes.

    Warmaster (Ex): At sixth level, the Fighter may Take 10 on a single attack roll per round, this may be on a Parry roll, an Attack of Opportunity or any other special attack requiring an attack roll.


    Rather than giving them anything mystical at all, I just wanted a business-like master of combat, nothing mystical, just a serious threat that requires the enemy to focus on them or suffer.
    Hmm. My first reaction when anyone starts making a fighter fix is to make sure you read this marvelous analysis of the fighter. I think it has some good ideas (though I don't actually like the builds it comes up with) on how to think about fixing it.

    Second, this fighter seems strongly devoted to a particular theme - that of the AoO master who focuses on defending his allies. I don't think fighters should have a particular theme like this. When I want to make a martial character, I have a bunch of options that are specialized in different ways - barbarian, paladin, ranger, hexblade, etc. Each of those classes comes with additional "baggage" in terms of fluff and the mechanics that ties them down to specific roles, whether in combat or in the game world as a whole. None of them fit many of the classic archetypes of "fighter", such as "Guy who shoots arrows without loving nature", or "polearm wielder", or "Ally defender" (which your fix assumes), and so on. The fighter must be the class that covers all of those roles without significant preference for some over others, just like the rogue class must be able to cover all of the myriad variations on "rogue" without prejudice. Specializing is what what prestige classes and other base classes are for. You need "generic" classes, or else players can end up with perfectly reasonable character concepts that have no logical way to exist. Therefore, the fighter should be defined by one thing: his ability to fight.

    Third, even putting that aside, this seems really annoying to play with. Let me get this straight: Whenever a fighter is in melee with someone, the fighter can make an attack roll once for every time an opponent attacks, no matter who they attack? Holy game slowdown, batman! This is definitely not a mechanic that I'd recommend using; it will take way too long to resolve. Plus, Parry is incredibly powerful. AC (intentionally) doesn't progress at the same rate as attack bonus in D&D as you add more iterative attacks. Using an attack roll as AC can make a well built character nearly invulnerable. Plus, just slap two levels of this fighter on a barbarian and watch him go absolutely NUTS.

    I think that's enough for now - I'm curious what you think.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Ferocious Defender (Ex): Enemies provoke an attack of opportunity from the Fighter whenever they make a melee attack against a target that is not the Fighter. In the case of a full attack action, each individual attack provokes its own attack of opportunity.
    It seem nice, at least until someone uses a fighter rush. Then character is attacked three to seven time every time he attacks, not counting normal attacks of his opponents. With the Leadership feat, that's not something PCs can't come up with (if this feat doesn't exist in E6, a mercenary army fit nicely).
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-17 at 03:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Alright, I'll try potions with a pass for now, it seems reasonable that a wand with a CL 1 level 1 spell should be more exhausting than a single use potion, so crafting rules are now:

    Spoiler
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    Whenever someone crafts a magic item, they gain a negative level. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as Hit Dice, they die. Each negative level gives a creature the following penalties: -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). In addition, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from the highest spell level castable.
    Unlike regular negative levels there is no risk of permanently losing a level, and these negative levels cannot be recovered by any means short of waiting for them to recover naturally.
    Negative levels from crafting last for two days for every day spent creating the item.
    Should a crafter's caster level be below the caster level required as a prerequisite for a metamagic, item creation or mage feat then they may not use that feat until they recover.

    Special:
    A "potion" refers to any single use magical item that is expended after a single use and may be used by anyone. The crafter may instead qualify with any "Craft" skill in place of Craft Alchemy, and modify the resultant item accordingly.
    Unlike other items, crafting a potion only gives a negative level for a single day.


    Hmm. My first reaction when anyone starts making a fighter fix is to make sure you read this marvelous analysis of the fighter. I think it has some good ideas (though I don't actually like the builds it comes up with) on how to think about fixing it.
    Wield a sword and shield
    Blocks attacks with his shield
    Blocks dragon breath with his shield
    Is nimble on his feet

    I like it. I've adjusted Steel Wall to use either a shield or heavy armour (since that was exactly what Steel Wall is for), and parry to use a shield or a sword (and be mechanically better with a shield).

    You need "generic" classes, or else players can end up with perfectly reasonable character concepts that have no logical way to exist. Therefore, the fighter should be defined by one thing: his ability to fight.
    The main problem, and one that is covered in the article you've linked: Anyone can fight.

    With feats, anyone can shoot a bow without loving nature, with any full BAB class anyone can fight as near to as well as the fighter, shoot a bow as well as the fighter, and gets bonuses that the fighter cannot.

    One may have substitutions for the fighter's explicit abilities, but it must have explicit abilities, otherwise it will fail as a class. If you're replacing specific abilities, then you may as well replace the whole class.

    None of them fit many of the classic archetypes of "fighter", such as "Guy who shoots arrows without loving nature", or "polearm wielder", or "Ally defender" (which your fix assumes), and so on. The fighter must be the class that covers all of those roles without significant preference for some over others, just like the rogue class must be able to cover all of the myriad variations on "rogue" without prejudice. Specializing is what what prestige classes and other base classes are for. You need "generic" classes, or else players can end up with perfectly reasonable character concepts that have no logical way to exist.
    Prestige classes do not meaningfully exist in E6, characters are defined by their race, stats, their skills, the feats they select, and the six class levels they select.

    #1: A ranger refluffed fits most lightly armoured combat style specialists, including archery. A ranger does not need to like nature, to track anything or anyone, or to take Survival as a class skill.
    #2: The Fighter shown actually makes great use of polearms - the increase of reach makes their ability to AoO even more effective. In fact, it means they can't 5' step away from the Fighter to avoid the AoO.
    #3: They cover this one, and most "heavily armoured defensive class" features.

    They're quite capable of getting other features through feats.

    I suppose the major question is "why must the fighter cover every role"? A rogue isn't the be all and end all of rogues, the Rogue class specifically embodies a stealthy character who uses sneak attacks for precision damage.

    Not every rogue is an assassin, not every rogue is nimble, not every rogue lacks booksmarts into the secrets of arcane, religious, historical or natural issues. Not every character in the Rogue class is a roguish character at all.

    Strip away the fluff, and every class is simply a collection of abilities that can be ignored or used to support your desired character. This is why multiclassing exists.

    Third, even putting that aside, this seems really annoying to play with. Let me get this straight: Whenever a fighter is in melee with someone, the fighter can make an attack roll once for every time an opponent attacks, no matter who they attack? Holy game slowdown, batman! This is definitely not a mechanic that I'd recommend using; it will take way too long to resolve. Plus, Parry is incredibly powerful. AC (intentionally) doesn't progress at the same rate as attack bonus in D&D as you add more iterative attacks. Using an attack roll as AC can make a well built character nearly invulnerable. Plus, just slap two levels of this fighter on a barbarian and watch him go absolutely NUTS.
    The ability to AoO targets who attack non-you targets already exists - Defensive Rebuke, if your attack hits a target then if they attack anyone else then you get an AoO unless they move away.

    Parry also already exists. Wall of Blades, Tome of Battle, level 2 Manoeuvre immediate action, and works against Ranged attacks as well.

    I may tie parry to use up an attack of opportunity however, so there's an opportunity cost for it.

    Concerning its power, you are forgetting that this is E6; AC does not outscale BAB, plate is always +8, BAB is at absolute most +4. Parry is 6 BAB + Strength (+5 for 20 Str), +5 for a +1 Tower Shield, or +3 for a Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, +1 weapon, +1D20.

    That's 6 + 5 + 5 +1-20 (17-36 AC) or 6 + 5 + 3 + 1-20 (15-34 AC).

    An average AC of 26.5 or 24.5, 26 / 24 if you take 10 on the parry.

    In comparison, full plate, 13 Dex and a tower shield is 23 AC.

    Concerning tying the game up, I'm not certain it will, the most nimble fighter possible (20 Dex elf) with Combat Reflexes gets at absolute most 7 AoOs a turn. That's a lot, but it's pretty doubtful that anyone will be able to successfully trigger all seven - this is, again, E6, the TWF specialist attacks at most five times with haste, full BAB gives a single iterative attack, things are quicker all around, there's room for the fighter to attack outside of his turn a few times, or a maximum of once to try and block a lucky shot.

    You've convinced me to move around the abilities though.


    It seem nice, at least until someone uses a fighter rush. Then character is attacked three to seven time every time he attacks, not counting normal attacks of his opponents. With the Leadership feat, that's not something PCs can't come up with (if this feat doesn't exist in E6, a mercenary army fit nicely).
    Well, if the fighter goes from a joke to a class you'd actually want multiples of, at least its a step in the right direction, eh?

    Thematically speaking, I actually rather like this; someone has been cornered by the city watch, they are surrounded by eight mad looking dudes pointing spears at them (we've all seen this scene before I'm sure).

    What do they do?

    They surrender, because they're outnumbered and surrounded. If they were to attack someone then the others would instantly stab and skewer them.

    In D&D what would they do?

    Well, they'd probably power attack for 5, take out one of them, then with their second iterative stab another. They're only level 2, they attack once each at maybe +5 to hit. You have a good chance of killing them all in one or two hits apiece, which is 4-8 rounds, taking four or five hits in return.

    If they're "Ferocious Defenders" then they react quite reasonably - the criminal attacks, and the seven survivors *all* take their swing. In their turn, they all take another swing, giving them actually a real chance against a target they outnumber.

    Mechanically, it's actually fairly reasonable as well. I think you may be overestimating the ease of setting up a situation where you reliably outnumber an opponent versus the downsides of such an activity.

    - You need to set up positioning.
    - You need to be in a state where they can't just 5' step into an unAoOable spot.
    - Your opponent needs to be a melee specialist.
    - Your opponent needs to not possess Crowd Control. Entangle, Sleep, Grease, Pyrotechnics, Sound Burst, Burning Hands, Colour Spray, let alone Fireball will all wreck an army of low level fighters.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Interpose (Ex): so long as the Fighter is conscious and capable of actions, they may choose as a free action during their turn to grant one ally within 5' Soft Cover from all ranged attacks until the next turn. Should any attack beat the ally's regular AC but miss due to this Cover bonus, then the attack strikes the Fighter, even if their attack roll would not normally be enough to do so. Should the ally move more than 5' away from the Fighter then this bonus is lost.
    The fighter may only grant one ally cover in this way per round.

    Bonus Feats: At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus feat. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd, 4th and 6th level. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as [fighter] feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

    Ferocious Defender (Ex): At second level, enemies provoke an attack of opportunity from the Fighter whenever they make a melee attack that does not target the Fighter. In the case of a full attack action, each individual attack provokes its own attack of opportunity. Attacks of opportunity do not provoke attacks of opportunity from Ferocious Defender.

    Parry (Ex): At third level the Fighter gains the ability to better defend themselves from assailants. Whenever an attacker attacks him in melee and he is not denied his dexterity bonus to AC, he may make an attack roll with any melee weapon or shield they are holding as an immediate action (using the shield's Armour Class as an attack bonus), Should this attack roll be higher than the attacker's then the attack misses. The fighter may choose to parry an attack after learning the result of the opponent's attack, but not after damage is rolled.

    Disrupt (Ex): At fourth level, whenever a Fighter successfully hits with an attack of opportunity granted by their Ferocious Defender ability, the target gets a -4 attack penalty on the attack that provoked the attack of opportunity.

    Steel Wall (Ex): At fifth level, a Fighter may choose to automatically succeed at a reflex save against an effect that allows a reflex save for half damage. They may only use this ability if they are wearing heavy armour or wearing a shield (not a buckler).

    Momentum (Ex): At fifth level the Fighter may make an additional attack of opportunity per turn. This stacks with any additional attacks of opportunity provided by Combat Reflexes.

    Warmaster (Ex): At sixth level, the Fighter may Take 10 on a single attack per round, this may be on an Attack of Opportunity or special attack if they wish.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Expending maximum HP is very harsh; if you want to go that route, you might as well go with what I hear was done in 2E and require 1 point of CON for each item.
    My general 3.5 balance fix.
    My psionics remix.
    My common-sense houserules.
    More minor homebrew (weapons, races).

    Complete system remake (under construction, barely started)

    Ever want to try your hand at optimizing, but dislike heavy emphasis on splatbooks and/or the rocket tag phenomenon?
    Come visit the Core Coliseum today, for a totally different style of optimization.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Expending maximum HP is very harsh; if you want to go that route, you might as well go with what I hear was done in 2E and require 1 point of CON for each item.
    Not to worry, this has been replaced by temporary negative levels.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    - Your opponent needs to not possess Crowd Control. Entangle, Sleep, Grease, Pyrotechnics, Sound Burst, Burning Hands, Colour Spray, let alone Fireball will all wreck an army of low level fighters.
    I don't know how bad ass is a 6th level wizard, but he doesn't have Contingency (or any Symbol spell, for that matter). He will likely have to deal with 8 Attacks of Opportunity a round, not counting the seven bonus Attacks of Opportunity because he's attacking someone. He can cast defensively, but the Concentration check would be way high with all the damage he receives in a single round (from normal attacks, of course).

    The 1st level fighters are elite soldiers, of course, so they have Dodge and Mage Slayer on the top of this. Not counting their fighter bonus feat.

    The build is already effective against small and medium-sized characters. It is even more so if they are tinier or larger, or in a 3D space.

    Edit : Just see they doesn't fulfil the prerequisites of Mage Slayer. Just replace it with Iron Will. Dodge is a fighter bonus feat, so they have another free feat.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-17 at 10:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I don't know how bad ass is a 6th level wizard, but he doesn't have Contingency (or any Symbol spell, for that matter). He will likely have to deal with 8 Attacks of Opportunity a round, not counting the seven bonus Attacks of Opportunity because he's attacking someone. He can cast defensively, but the Concentration check would be way high with all the damage he receives in a single round (from normal attacks, of course).

    The 1st level fighters are elite soldiers, of course, so they have Dodge and Mage Slayer on the top of this. Not counting their fighter bonus feat.

    The build is already effective against small and medium-sized characters. It is even more so if they are tinier or larger, or in a 3D space.
    I'm not sure how you're getting to this point, even assuming that Ferocious Defender hadn't been moved to level 2 a few posts back. Could you please explain?

    1: Ferocious Defender doesn't give you additional Attacks of Opportunity per round.

    2: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity by casting defensively, you do not add anything to the concentration DC for damage received prior to beginning to cast defensively.

    The DC of the check is 15 plus the spellís level. With just 9 in Concentration, Skill Focus Concentration and a 14 Constitution you have a 10% chance to fail to cast a level 3 spell defensively.

    3: Mageslayer requires a BAB of +3?


    Even assuming they did somehow start adjacent to the mage in this manner, this literally is a case of "cast fireball". Assuming elite array, their +1 Reflex save means they save on a 16 or better, and their ~14 HP isn't a guarantee against death even then. Dodge doesn't really help there.

    Even an unoptimised Bard, with a single Sound Burst, has a great chance of stunning over half of them, which means an unarmed squad of fighters.

    I'm not seeing any situation where you can reliably get a group of level 1 fighters into melee range (with reach and I assume Studded Leather) that would work out better than getting a group of eight level 1 mages to just cast Magic Missile on someone for an automatic 16-40 damage per turn.

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I don't know how bad ass is a 6th level wizard, but he doesn't have Contingency (or any Symbol spell, for that matter). He will likely have to deal with 8 Attacks of Opportunity a round, not counting the seven bonus Attacks of Opportunity because he's attacking someone. He can cast defensively, but the Concentration check would be way high with all the damage he receives in a single round (from normal attacks, of course).

    The 1st level fighters are elite soldiers, of course, so they have Dodge and Mage Slayer on the top of this. Not counting their fighter bonus feat.

    The build is already effective against small and medium-sized characters. It is even more so if they are tinier or larger, or in a 3D space.

    Edit : Just see they doesn't fulfil the prerequisites of Mage Slayer. Just replace it with Iron Will. Dodge is a fighter bonus feat, so they have another free feat.
    That was informative post but still I have some doubts I don't get your points of provoke attacks, I mean they are kind of opportunity for letting rival down.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    1: Ferocious Defender doesn't give you additional Attacks of Opportunity per round.

    2: You do not provoke attacks of opportunity by casting defensively, you do not add anything to the concentration DC for damage received prior to beginning to cast defensively.

    The DC of the check is 15 plus the spellís level. With just 9 in Concentration, Skill Focus Concentration and a 14 Constitution you have a 10% chance to fail to cast a level 3 spell defensively.

    [...]

    Even an unoptimised Bard, with a single Sound Burst, has a great chance of stunning over half of them, which means an unarmed squad of fighters.
    1-Combat Reflexes and at least 14 in dexterity is really all you need.

    2-They just have to prepare their action. Nothing really great.

    Sound Burst won't work if the fighters are deaf.

    I'm not seeing any situation where you can reliably get a group of level 1 fighters into melee range (with reach and I assume Studded Leather) that would work out better than getting a group of eight level 1 mages to just cast Magic Missile on someone for an automatic 16-40 damage per turn.
    They can move 60 ft. per turn. No problem with this one. Eight level 1 mages? They inflict 8d4 +8 damage (12-36), and it wouldn't work for more than three rounds per day. Eight level 1 fighters with battle axes get 8d8 damage, not counting their Strength modifier, so if we count AC they will probably inflict just as much damage every round.

    I'm not sure how you're getting to this point, even assuming that Ferocious Defender hadn't been moved to level 2 a few posts back. Could you please explain?
    Okay, if its moved to level 2, it's harder to get.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-18 at 12:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    Alright, I'll try potions with a pass for now, it seems reasonable that a wand with a CL 1 level 1 spell should be more exhausting than a single use potion, so crafting rules are now:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Whenever someone crafts a magic item, they gain a negative level. If the subject has at least as many negative levels as Hit Dice, they die. Each negative level gives a creature the following penalties: -1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, ability checks; loss of 5 hit points; and -1 to effective level (for determining the power, duration, DC, and other details of spells or special abilities). In addition, a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from the highest spell level castable.
    Unlike regular negative levels there is no risk of permanently losing a level, and these negative levels cannot be recovered by any means short of waiting for them to recover naturally.
    Negative levels from crafting last for two days for every day spent creating the item.
    Should a crafter's caster level be below the caster level required as a prerequisite for a metamagic, item creation or mage feat then they may not use that feat until they recover.

    Special:
    A "potion" refers to any single use magical item that is expended after a single use and may be used by anyone. The crafter may instead qualify with any "Craft" skill in place of Craft Alchemy, and modify the resultant item accordingly.
    Unlike other items, crafting a potion only gives a negative level for a single day.
    Cool. I think this is the fix I needed to allow crafting back into my games. Thanks!

    The main problem, and one that is covered in the article you've linked: Anyone can fight.

    With feats, anyone can shoot a bow without loving nature, with any full BAB class anyone can fight as near to as well as the fighter, shoot a bow as well as the fighter, and gets bonuses that the fighter cannot.
    Oh, I'm not saying the fighter doesn't deserve improving. You're right that, as currently written, there is nothing that really separates the fighter from other classes; anything he can do, they can do too.

    One may have substitutions for the fighter's explicit abilities, but it must have explicit abilities, otherwise it will fail as a class. If you're replacing specific abilities, then you may as well replace the whole class.
    Yes, it should have explicit abilities. But I maintain that those abilities do not need to - and should not - "pigeonhole" the fighter into a specific role.

    Prestige classes do not meaningfully exist in E6, characters are defined by their race, stats, their skills, the feats they select, and the six class levels they select.
    Good point; I forgot about the E6 issue (I was wondering why you only provided six levels of fix!). I have never played E6, and my interests naturally lean towards creating a fighter fix for the first ten to fifteen levels instead. I'll try to keep that in mind as I look at your ideas.

    #1: A ranger refluffed fits most lightly armoured combat style specialists, including archery. A ranger does not need to like nature, to track anything or anyone, or to take Survival as a class skill.
    I see two issues here. First, what does a ranger actually contribute to your ability to two-weapon fight or use archery? They get bonus feats that a fighter can take too. They have a worse hit die and Favored Enemy, which is pretty strongly fluff-specific to the ranger. If you ignore their nature-themed abilities, they're worse than a fighter except for their (largely nature-themed) skills.
    Second, a fighter has one role: fighting. If you become better at fighting by also gaining an animal companion, tracking, and a several other abilities (that yes, you are free to ignore), the fighter is clearly not fulfilling his role as a class. From my perspective, if a ranger was a better fighter than a fighter when both use two-weapon or archery style, that would just prove that the fighter was broken. You seem to see that as a desirable outcome.
    #2: The Fighter shown actually makes great use of polearms - the increase of reach makes their ability to AoO even more effective. In fact, it means they can't 5' step away from the Fighter to avoid the AoO.
    #3: They cover this one, and most "heavily armoured defensive class" features.
    Yes; the fighter you created does cover a couple of roles extremely well, as long as they all share "being a tank and protecting allies" in common.

    They're quite capable of getting other features through feats.
    Is this an E6 thing? I feel like it is, so I'll leave it alone.

    I suppose the major question is "why must the fighter cover every role"? A rogue isn't the be all and end all of rogues, the Rogue class specifically embodies a stealthy character who uses sneak attacks for precision damage.

    Not every rogue is an assassin, not every rogue is nimble, not every rogue lacks booksmarts into the secrets of arcane, religious, historical or natural issues. Not every character in the Rogue class is a roguish character at all.

    Strip away the fluff, and every class is simply a collection of abilities that can be ignored or used to support your desired character. This is why multiclassing exists.
    He has to be able to cover all the fighting roles because if he doesn't, no other class can. Barbarians and rangers are specifically for lighter armor, and they each have their own set of unique abilities that give the class an identity independent of the fighting style they choose. The only core class that can mechanically serve as a "generic fighter of any type" other than the fighter is the paladin, since it has no abilities which preference one type of fighting over others - but that obviously has huge fluff requirements, so you can't use it as a go-to class.

    When you suggest using the ranger and ignoring the nature-themed abilities, you're ignoring the reason the ranger exists. That's like being a paladin and ignoring the divine-themed abilities, or being a barbarian and ignoring the rage-themed abilities. Yes, you could. It might end up being a useful character - particularly if you started splashing around, taking the first few levels of each class. But it makes a mockery of the reason that classes exist. You should be a ranger because you want to be a ranger, not because you want a particular fighting style. That's why the fighter has to be generic; he is the firewall against class pollution.

    To illustrate this, let's say I want to be an archer. Nothing fancy; I just want to shoot a bow. (Like many new players, I might be trying to mimic some classic character that I really like; Legolas is a popular choice). Well, there are four full BAB classes; let's see which one fits best. Barbarian doesn't fit at all - being filled with rage doesn't mesh with shooting targets from a distance, and the nature of Strength bows means I won't get any real benefit from Rage. Okay, that doesn't work. Next up is the fighter; by the name, that seems fitting. But wait... I don't care at all about most of these class features. I don't take attacks of opportunity with a bow, and I try to avoid melee, so half of the abilities are useless. Also, I won't use heavy armor (too slow!), so Steel Wall doesn't work. Interpose could be useful to protect the mage; okay, I like that, but it's not much. Warmaster is cool, though. But let's keep looking; I feel like I'm ignoring half the class features. If I could be good with a bow in this class, couldn't I be way better if I was actually using these abilities?
    So we look at paladin. But I don't particularly feel like playing a holy warrior; that's not something I can just ignore. Ranger, then? The name seems fitting. But I wasn't planning on being all nature-y. I don't have any particular grudges against any creatures, and I don't need a cute animal companion. I mean, that's cool, but not really relevant. And I don't see any abilities that actually help me shoot a bow, just some feats I could have taken anyway. Guess it's the fighter, then - but I still have all this really powerful stuff that I have to write down that I'll never use. It will just sit there on my character sheet, reminding me about how much cooler I could have been if I didn't pick an archer.

    Ranged combat is the best example of a fighting style without a home, but I could also point out how much ridiculously better this fighter is as a two-handed wielder than as a two-weapon wielder (because of how attack of opportunity-focused he is; the two-weapon wielder takes penalties on all the extra attack rolls and does a little over half the damage on the attacks of opportunities), and how you should never use any weapon other than a spiked chain (because Ferocious Defender with reach is dumb).




    The ability to AoO targets who attack non-you targets already exists - Defensive Rebuke, if your attack hits a target then if they attack anyone else then you get an AoO unless they move away.

    Parry also already exists. Wall of Blades, Tome of Battle, level 2 Manoeuvre immediate action, and works against Ranged attacks as well.
    Yes, and Defensive Rebuke lasts for 1 round, while Wall of Blades lasts for a single attack. Because they're incredibly annoying to have as constantly active effects.

    I may tie parry to use up an attack of opportunity however, so there's an opportunity cost for it.
    That would definitely, definitely help, though I'm still not sure I like it.

    Concerning its power, you are forgetting that this is E6; AC does not outscale BAB, plate is always +8, BAB is at absolute most +4. Parry is 6 BAB + Strength (+5 for 20 Str), +5 for a +1 Tower Shield, or +3 for a Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, +1 weapon, +1D20.

    That's 6 + 5 + 5 +1-20 (17-36 AC) or 6 + 5 + 3 + 1-20 (15-34 AC).

    An average AC of 26.5 or 24.5, 26 / 24 if you take 10 on the parry.

    In comparison, full plate, 13 Dex and a tower shield is 23 AC.
    You are completely correct; I forgot this was E6. But you're choosing the wrong base for comparison. Sure, parry works fine compared to a AC optimizing full plate wearer - but that isn't who benefits from Parry. It's the 14 AC raging Barbarian who sees massive returns for Parry. Sure, you need 3 fighter to get it. That's a bit of a downside; or at least, you'd think so. Of course, if Extra Rage exists in E6, why not just take 1 barbarian and 5 fighter? You can use all your feats for Extra Rage, and use the fighter bonus feats to make up for that. You are now far better than a barbarian 6. But that's not the worst part; you are not only a better fighter than a barbarian, but you are a better barbarian than a barbarian. You get more rages per day, you are more survivable (thanks to Parry), and you are more devastating in combat (thanks to Ferocious Defender).

    Concerning tying the game up, I'm not certain it will, the most nimble fighter possible (20 Dex elf) with Combat Reflexes gets at absolute most 7 AoOs a turn. That's a lot, but it's pretty doubtful that anyone will be able to successfully trigger all seven - this is, again, E6, the TWF specialist attacks at most five times with haste, full BAB gives a single iterative attack, things are quicker all around, there's room for the fighter to attack outside of his turn a few times, or a maximum of once to try and block a lucky shot.

    You've convinced me to move around the abilities though.
    Game slowdown is a matter of personal preference, so I'm not going to argue about this too much; some groups wouldn't mind this, but others would get bored quickly by the fighter so often acting outside his turn. I think this is the sort of thing that is best seen in action to see if it is as bad as I expect; it may not be!


    Well, if the fighter goes from a joke to a class you'd actually want multiples of, at least its a step in the right direction, eh?

    Thematically speaking, I actually rather like this; someone has been cornered by the city watch, they are surrounded by eight mad looking dudes pointing spears at them (we've all seen this scene before I'm sure).

    What do they do?

    They surrender, because they're outnumbered and surrounded. If they were to attack someone then the others would instantly stab and skewer them.

    In D&D what would they do?

    Well, they'd probably power attack for 5, take out one of them, then with their second iterative stab another. They're only level 2, they attack once each at maybe +5 to hit. You have a good chance of killing them all in one or two hits apiece, which is 4-8 rounds, taking four or five hits in return.

    If they're "Ferocious Defenders" then they react quite reasonably - the criminal attacks, and the seven survivors *all* take their swing. In their turn, they all take another swing, giving them actually a real chance against a target they outnumber.

    Mechanically, it's actually fairly reasonable as well. I think you may be overestimating the ease of setting up a situation where you reliably outnumber an opponent versus the downsides of such an activity.

    - You need to set up positioning.
    - You need to be in a state where they can't just 5' step into an unAoOable spot.
    - Your opponent needs to be a melee specialist.
    - Your opponent needs to not possess Crowd Control. Entangle, Sleep, Grease, Pyrotechnics, Sound Burst, Burning Hands, Colour Spray, let alone Fireball will all wreck an army of low level fighters.
    I agree that Ferocious Defender doesn't make low-level fighters game-breakers. I'd just say that I think this classic situation reflects two flaws in D&D mechanics that can be fixed much more elegantly than making every guard a fighter. First, flanking doesn't stack, and it should. If you're surrounded by 8 guards, they should all have +8 to attack. Now kobolds and guards are scary!
    Second, the "withdraw" action is flawed. Let's say you're surrounded by 7 guards. No problem! Withdraw; your first square doesn't provoke, so you'll only take two attacks of opportunity, and from that square neither guard is flanking. That's dumber than Truenaming mechanics. Solution: Withdraw lets you ignore attacks of opportunity from a single target. Now 7 guards will get AoOs if you withdraw, and those attacks will all be at the +8 flanking bonus. Now criminals have a lot more trouble escaping the long and pointy arm of the law.
    With these two fixes, being surrounded is scary again, whether you're surrounded by barbarians, city guards, or kobolds.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    1-Combat Reflexes and at least 14 in dexterity is really all you need.

    2-They just have to prepare their action. Nothing really great.

    Sound Burst won't work if the fighters are deaf.
    What? Why on earth are they deaf?

    That seem very.. coincidental.

    And how did they get so close to them in the first place?
    Life is an illusion. Please make a will save to avoid disbelieving yourself.

    This PSA brought to you by Beholders for a less monkey infested future.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    1-Combat Reflexes and at least 14 in dexterity is really all you need.

    2-They just have to prepare their action. Nothing really great.
    So all eight of them are just teleporting in next to this hypothetical mage, because otherwise they've had to double move, and can't ready an action? Try out the different kinds of movement you would need for this on a board, on a few different types of terrain,

    Sound Burst won't work if the fighters are deaf
    They're deaf now? You've crippled your mercenary contingent because you're worried about a level 2 spell? I'm pretty sure this is not a sound strategy.

    They can move 60 ft. per turn. No problem with this one. Eight level 1 mages? They inflict 8d4 +8 damage (12-36),
    8D4 + 8 is 16-40, with a mean of 28, not 12-36. And they can do it from 110' away, three times a day before they're reduced to spamming 1D3 Ranged Touch with a range of 25'.

    Eight level 1 fighters with battle axes get 8d8 damage, not counting their Strength modifier, so if we count AC they will probably inflict just as much damage every round.
    And here I was assuming they had reach, because moving eight units so they occupy every square from even 35' away is actually pretty well impossible outside of a theoretical standpoint.

    So they're light armoured level 1 fighters with I assume you're using the elite array for them, so:

    Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

    With Dodge, Iron Will and I'll assume Weapon Focus instead of Combat Reflexes they have a +4 to hit, so against an unarmoured commoner with 10 Dex they have a 75% chance of hitting. Against a mage with only 14 Dex and Mage Armour we're talking a 45% chance to hit, 16.5 damage per round average after the first "setup" round of just double moving into position (assuming they even get to start within 60' of them).

    Like I said, it's a decentish plan (and has realistic advantages for hiring an army to fight your battles for you), but if you have to invest 8 Mercenaries per potential target, you're seriously investing a lot into this, and your attrition rate of mercenaries is going to be pretty high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Cool. I think this is the fix I needed to allow crafting back into my games. Thanks!
    Neat, glad it's helpful for you.


    Yes, it should have explicit abilities. But I maintain that those abilities do not need to - and should not - "pigeonhole" the fighter into a specific role.
    I'm not really finished with the base system yet, but as stated, I'm happy to incorporate substitute class features once I've finished.

    I see two issues here. First, what does a ranger actually contribute to your ability to two-weapon fight or use archery? They get bonus feats that a fighter can take too. They have a worse hit die and Favored Enemy, which is pretty strongly fluff-specific to the ranger. If you ignore their nature-themed abilities, they're worse than a fighter except for their (largely nature-themed) skills.
    Fighter wasn't the only class to be overhauled, every core class has been changed, every core feat being rewritten, and homebrew feats covering as many non-core staple mechanics as necessary.

    Rather than reply to most of your post's points, I've included at the bottom of this post the Rogue, Ranger, Barbarian and Paladin in their current (in flux) state so you're not working from a vacuum. Once you know which archetypes can be covered, then it would be easier to discuss covering any that were missing. I'll put up the Bard and Mage when I finish overhauling the entire magic system.

    Is this an E6 thing? I feel like it is, so I'll leave it alone.
    Yes, E6: You stop levelling at level 6, and you take feats every 5000 XP you gain after this point. Part of those feats can include feats which essentially replicate Prestige Class acquisition.

    Yes, and Defensive Rebuke lasts for 1 round, while Wall of Blades lasts for a single attack. Because they're incredibly annoying to have as constantly active effects.
    Parry lasts for a single attack as well, it's an immediate action. Both manoeuvres are fully accessible every other round though, with recovery, and Wall of Blades every single round if you're willing to Adaptive Style (for example Spiked Chain, Thicket of Blades Stance and 5' stepping away from your opponent down a corridor, Adaptive Styling every round to let you parry lucky hits, AoOing when they move up to attack, and if you don't need to Wall of Blades on a turn, getting to use a manoeuvre to attack instead).

    This said, it's a fair point. I've been thinking about how to allow Parry to operate every-other turn or a limited number of times an encounter instead, would that make it a touch better?

    I'm reluctant to significantly alter Ferocious Defender however, the idea that the fighter is too dangerous to ignore in combat is fundamental.

    Ranger:

    Spoiler
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    Track (Ex): The Ranger gains the Track feat as a bonus feat.

    Favoured Terrain (Ex): A ranger may select a type of terrain from the Favoured Terrains table. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Spot, Listen, Move Silently, Hide and Survival skill checks when they are in this terrain. A ranger traveling through their favoured terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).
    A ranger gains half their Favoured Terrain bonus towards Bluff, Knowledge, Sense Motive, Survival and Wild Empathy checks against creatures native to his favoured terrain, as well as on weapon attack and damage rolls against them (for rangers who select Urban terrains, they may select a single humanoid subtype for this bonus to apply to as well as domesticated animals associated with that race).
    At 3rd level and 5th level, the ranger may select an additional favored terrain. In addition, each time they select a new favoured terrain, the bonus in any one favored terrain (including the one just selected, if so desired), increases by +2.
    If a specific terrain or creature falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.

    Tough as Nails: At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, the Ranger gains a +2 bonus to their maximum hitpoints.

    Combat Style: At 2nd level, the Ranger chooses a fighting style in which they specialise. The benefits of their combat style only apply so long as they are not wearing heavy armour or using a tower shield.
    Bestial: The Ranger gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a bonus feat, and their unarmed strike deals damage equal to a Monk of their level.

    Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two hands, the ranger may take a -1 penalty to an attack roll in order to gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. They may increase the penalty to -2 at level 4, and -3 at level 6 for +4 and +6 to damage rolls respectively.

    Archery: When attacking with a ranged weapon, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls against any enemy within 30', and no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for firing or reloading ranged weapons.

    Twin Weapons: The ranger gains a +2 bonus to hit on any attack that would have a two-weapon fighting penalty applied to it, including double weapons, fighting with a weapon in each hand, or throwing a weapon from each hand.

    Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a Ranger gains a faithful animal companion, chosen from either a: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf.
    If a ranger releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished.
    Treat their companion as a familiar for the purposes of determining special features such as bonus hitdice and natural armour bonuses. The ranger's animal companion does not gain the "Speak with Master" ability, and their intelligence score is normal for a creature of their type. Instead they gain a number of bonus tricks equal to the intelligence score they would have if they were a normal familiar. An animal companion is considered an animal, not a magical beast.
    Should a ranger have levels in another class which has a familiar or familiar-like companion, they may choose whether to have an animal companion or familiar of the type granted by the other class. Their levels stack for the purpose of determining the strength of their companion.

    Spells: A Ranger casts arcane spells, which must be drawn from the Nature spell list. He knows all level 1 spells in this list, and can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Rangerís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Ranger's Wisdom modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a Ranger can cast only a certain number of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When the table indicates that the Ranger gets 0 spells per day, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level.
    A ranger may cast spells in medium armour and use a shield (except for a tower shield) without any chance of Arcane spell failure.

    Evasion (Ex): At 5th level, a ranger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Advanced Combat Style: At 6th level, the Ranger becomes an expert in their chosen fighting style:
    Bestial: The Ranger gains the ability to Shapeshift as though they were a 6th level mage with an Arcane Focus in Nature.

    Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two-hands, a ranger adds 5' to their reach.

    Archery: When attacking with a ranged weapon, the ranger does not have any penalty for firing into melee. Once per encounter as a standard action they may make a single attack with a ranged weapon as a ranged touch attack.

    Twin Weapons: The ranger gains an additional +1 bonus to hit on any attack that would have a two-weapon fighting penalty applied to it, including double weapons, fighting with a weapon in each hand, or throwing a weapon from each hand.

    Special: A Ranger counts as a Fighter of their level -2 for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
    Special: A Ranger counts as a level 1 Mage for the purpose of qualifying for feats.


    Paladin:

    Spoiler
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    Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level. Spells with the "Healing" descriptor cast within 10' of the Paladin (including by the Paladin themselves) gain a +1 to their caster level.
    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if they are unconscious or dead.

    Detect Evil (Sp): A paladin can use detect evil, as the spell, as many times per day as their Charisma modifier (to a minimum of 1). Their caster level for this ability equals their Paladin level.

    Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. They add their Charisma bonus (if any) to the attack roll and deal 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day. At 3rd level they may smite evil twice per encounter, and at 5th level they may smite evil three times per encounter.

    Lay on Hands (Su): At 2nd level a Paladin may heal wounds with a touch. Each day they may heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to their Paladin level ◊ their Charisma bonus (or x1 if their Charisma is 12 or lower). A paladin may choose to divide their healing among multiple recipients, and they do not have to use it all at once. Using Lay on Hands is a standard action.
    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesnít provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of their daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

    Aura of Grace (Su): At 2nd level the Paladin gains a bonus to their saving throws equal to their Charisma modifier (if any). Allies within 10' of the Paladin gain a +1 sacred bonus to all saving throws.
    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if they are unconscious or dead.

    "Aura of Courage (Su): At 3rd level the Paladin gains immunity to fear. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
    "
    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if they are unconscious or dead.

    Turn Undead (Su): At 4th level a Paladin can turn or destroy undead creatures. A paladin may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Charisma modifier (to a minimum of 1). A palain with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

    Spells: A Paladin casts arcane spells, which must be drawn from the Healing spell list. He knows all level 1 spells in this list, and can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a Paladin must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Paladinís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Paladinís Charisma modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a Paladin can cast only a certain number of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score. When the table indicates that the Paladin gets 0 spells per day, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
    A paladin may cast spells in armour and use a shield without any chance of Arcane spell failure.

    "Aura of Purity (Su): At 5th level the Paladin gains immunity to disease. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws against diseases.
    "
    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if they are unconscious or dead.

    Paladin Mount (Su): At 5th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil.
    Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a level 2 spell. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and may remain for up to 12 hours; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service to gain the service of a new one.
    Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.
    Should the paladinís mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
    The Paladin may choose between a warhorse (Heavy or light), a warpony, a Riding Dog, or other appropriate mount compatible with their setting. Treat their mount as a familiar for the purposes of determining special features such as bonus hitdice and natural armour bonuses. The Paladin's mount does not gain the "Speak with Master" ability.
    Should a Paladin have levels in another class which has a familiar or familiar-like companion, they may choose whether to have a mount or a familiar of the type granted by the other class. Their levels stack for the purpose of determining the strength of their companion.

    Aura of Glory (Su): At 6th level, a Paladin projects an aura of glory, driving their allies on to greater and greater accomplishments. Allies within 10' (not including the Paladin themselves) gain a +1 Sacred bonus to attack and damage rolls.
    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if they are unconscious or dead.

    Special: A Paladin must be Good in alignment, and should they willingly perform an evil act will lose all their class features except for weapon and armour proficiencies, and must spend 24 hours in meditation and atonement before they regain use their class abilities again.
    Should a Paladin ever become non-Good in alignment, then they may not regain use of their class abilities again unless they become good again.

    Special: A Paladin counts as a Fighter of their level -2 for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
    Special: A Paladin counts as a level 1 Mage for the purpose of qualifying for feats.


    Rogue:

    Spoiler
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    Sneak Attack (Ex): If a rogue can catch an opponent that is unable to defend itself effectively from their attack, they can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
    The rogueís weapon attack deals extra damage any time their target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks their target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.
    Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
    With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. They cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.
    A rogue can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomiesóundead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

    Trapfinding (Ex): Rogues can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.
    Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
    Rogues can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
    A rogue who beats a trapís DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with their party) without disarming it.

    Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If they make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, they instead take no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Trap Sense (Ex): At 2nd level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts them to danger from traps, giving them a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 4th level, and +3 when the rogue reaches 6th level.
    Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

    Unerring Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, a Rogue's ability to deliver precise blows increases. The rogue may subtract dice from their Sneak Attack damage for an attack to gain an additional +1 precision bonus to their attack rolls for each sneak attack die subtracted in this way. For each die subtracted, they may ignore 1 point of Damage Reduction of any type.
    The rogue may use this ability at any time where they would normally be able to deal sneak attack damage to a target, even if the target would not normally be susceptible to sneak attack damage. They must declare the use of this ability prior to making the attack.
    They may not subtract more Sneak Attack dice than they actually have.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level a Rogue retains their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still lose their Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a rogue already has uncanny dodge from a different class, they automatically gain improved uncanny dodge instead.

    Skill Mastery (Ex): At 5th level, a Rogue may select any 3 skills in which they are trained. They may always take 10 on these skills, even if they would not normally be able to do so.

    Death Attack (Ex): At 6th level, a Rogue becomes able to make a single devastating attack. To perform a death attack, the Rogue must first spend the three rounds prior to the attempt observing the target (taking at least a standard action to do so). After this point, the rogue may make a single strike as a standard action against the target either in melee or with a ranged weapon from within 30'. If they hit, then the rogue automatically deals full sneak attack damage, plus an additional 3D6 bonus damage. If the target is ordinarily immune to sneak attacks then they still take the additional 3D6 bonus damage.
    The rogue may forfeit their ordinary sneak attack damage on this death attack through their unerring strike ability as normal. They may not forfeit any of the additional bonus damage dice granted by a successful Death Attack.


    Barbarian:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Fast Movement (Ex): A barbarianís land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarianís speed because of any load carried or armor worn.

    Rage (Ex): As a free action a barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but take a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarianís hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when their Constitution score drops back to normal. While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can they cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function.
    They may use any feat they have except for Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the barbarianís (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end their rage as a free action. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, canít charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter.
    A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level they can use the rage ability once per day. At 4th level they may use it one additional time per day.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At second level a Barbarian retains their Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, they still lose their Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, they automatically gain improved uncanny dodge instead.

    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the barbarian takes each time they are dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 5th level this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

    Trap Sense (Ex): A 3rd level barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. This bonus rises to +2 at 6th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

    Stalwart Recovery (Ex): A 3rd level Barbarian becomes better able to recover from the after effects of raging. They are only fatigued for one round after their rage ends, rather than for the remainder of the battle.

    Raging Vigour (Ex): A 4th level Barbarian gains the ability to shrug off injuries whilst in a rage. Whilst raging they gain Temporary hitpoints equal to half the bonus hitpoints they receive from raging. For example, a 4th level Barbarian will gain 8 Hitpoints, and 4 temporary hitpoints whilst raging.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking them. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

    Rampage (Ex): At 6th level a Barbarian may make an additional attack at their full base attack bonus whilst they are raging. If they do, all attacks made this round are at a -2 penalty to hit.

    Special: A Barbarian counts as a Fighter of their level -2 for the purpose of qualifying for feats.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Vadskye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Okay, I think I have a better idea of the overall context for the fighter now. I am a bit less worried about the power level issues now. I also misread Parry originally, and somehow missed the bit about it being an immediate action - that does help. I do think that two-handed weapons are vastly more powerful than dual-wielding in your system, though. And I can see the utility of Ferocious Defender, but I think there is a more effective means of getting across the theme of "don't ignore a fighter" than the mechanically problematic mechanism of granting attacks of opportunity on a one-for-one basis with enemy attacks; the impact it has with slowdown and encouraging two-handed fighting is too great. Plus, I think there's a feat that covers the exact same ground already: Overwhelming Assault, from PHB2. Basically, if you spend a turn threatened by a fighter and ignore him, he gets +4 to hit against you during his next turn. That doesn't add any extra rolling, it works well no matter what weapon style you're using, and there's no huge power difference when you give the fighter a reach weapon.

    The added information doesn't change my core argument, though - that the fighter should be generic. Your ranger is still a ranger, your paladin is still a paladin, and your barbarian is still a barbarian. They still have fundamental roles that they play, and character archetypes that they require - and that they don't support. My hypothetical Legolas still doesn't have a comfortable home.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Okay, I think I have a better idea of the overall context for the fighter now. I am a bit less worried about the power level issues now.
    The general theme I got from a lot of standard D&D classes is that they're not actually fulfilling what they should. By level 6, they are supposed to be heroic, skilled and experienced, yet some of them still haven't even got all their basic talents by that point, hence the power level should be a bit higher for some classes, but more consistent overall.

    I do think that two-handed weapons are vastly more powerful than dual-wielding in your system, though.
    THF is always more powerful than TWF, THF doesn't need any feats, deals 1.5 x Str 2x Power Attack...

    My closest attempt to making TWF worthwhile is that Rangers get a +3 / +3 bonus to TWF without feats. With the TWF feat, they're at +1/+1, with ITWF they're at +7/+7/+2/+2 attacks in a round for two feats.

    The Raging Barbarian only gets +4/+4/-1 with their Two-Handed Sword, the Fighter only gets +6/+1 with their Spiked Chain (this reminds me that I'll be needing to overhaul weapons as well). Attacking twice as often for a better attack bonus rather than at -2 or worse is a better deal than TWF used to get.

    And I can see the utility of Ferocious Defender, but I think there is a more effective means of getting across the theme of "don't ignore a fighter" than the mechanically problematic mechanism of granting attacks of opportunity on a one-for-one basis with enemy attacks; the impact it has with slowdown and encouraging two-handed fighting is too great.
    As a theoretical - What would happen if the spiked chain didn't exist, and a Fighter had to choose between Reach and adjacency?

    Plus, I think there's a feat that covers the exact same ground already: Overwhelming Assault, from PHB2. Basically, if you spend a turn threatened by a fighter and ignore him, he gets +4 to hit against you during his next turn. That doesn't add any extra rolling, it works well no matter what weapon style you're using, and there's no huge power difference when you give the fighter a reach weapon.
    Not a bad idea actually, just make it a flat bonus.

    Pressure (Ex): At second level, if an opponent that the Fighter threatens attacks or otherwise targets anyone other than the fighter on their turn, the Fighter gets a Circumstance bonus to attacks equal to half their Fighter level against that opponent until the end of their next turn. This bonus does not stack with itself.
    Opponents threatened by the fighter are aware of this ability.

    Disrupt (Ex): At third level, any target the Fighter threatens suffers an attack penalty equal to half the Fighter's level on attacks or abilities against targets other than the Fighter.
    Opponents threatened by the fighter are aware of this ability.

    The added information doesn't change my core argument, though - that the fighter should be generic. Your ranger is still a ranger, your paladin is still a paladin, and your barbarian is still a barbarian. They still have fundamental roles that they play, and character archetypes that they require - and that they don't support. My hypothetical Legolas still doesn't have a comfortable home.
    Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2.

    Fire bows in melee without provoking AoOs.
    Fast movement, with the uncanny ability to dodge blows nimbly.
    Favoured Terrain is underground and urban (Humanoid target of choice being other humans), with the extra +2 bonus to the urban.
    +2 Hitpoints and reduced damage taken for being Tough as Nails, D12 + 3D8 + 1D10 HP.
    And they can put themselves between incoming ranged attacks, letting them protect important targets.
    Two Bonus Fighter feats invested into archery.

    Skills include some points in: Balance, Climb, Craft (Fletching), Jump, Knowledge (Local), Spot, Tumble.

    Ignored features:
    They have a bit of a temper.
    They can theoretically track people, despite having no points in survival to do so (Effectively a non-ability).
    They can, but probably don't, use heavy armour and shields.
    They're pretty good in melee combat situations.

    No nature love, no cute animal buddy, ranged combat ability out the wazoo.

    Single classes are for being specific archetypes. If your desired archetype doesn't fit, then multiclassing is for being generic.

    If an archetype cannot be fulfilled by multiclassing, that's when a new class to fulfil that archetype becomes necessary.
    Last edited by Kholai; 2012-08-18 at 06:35 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    The general theme I got from a lot of standard D&D classes is that they're not actually fulfilling what they should. By level 6, they are supposed to be heroic, skilled and experienced, yet some of them still haven't even got all their basic talents by that point, hence the power level should be a bit higher for some classes, but more consistent overall.
    Makes sense to me as a design goal.

    THF is always more powerful than TWF, THF doesn't need any feats, deals 1.5 x Str 2x Power Attack...
    Oh, true; this isn't a problem unique to your system. But if you're remaking everything else, why not try to address this too?

    My closest attempt to making TWF worthwhile is that Rangers get a +3 / +3 bonus to TWF without feats. With the TWF feat, they're at +1/+1, with ITWF they're at +7/+7/+2/+2 attacks in a round for two feats.

    The Raging Barbarian only gets +4/+4/-1 with their Two-Handed Sword, the Fighter only gets +6/+1 with their Spiked Chain (this reminds me that I'll be needing to overhaul weapons as well). Attacking twice as often for a better attack bonus rather than at -2 or worse is a better deal than TWF used to get.
    Your numbers confuse me. I assume they represent "6th level character, ignoring all bonuses except BAB and class features". In which case, sure, the ranger has +7/7/2/2, and the fighter has +6/1 with the spiked chain or greatsword. But how does the barbarian have only +4/4/-1? By my count, he should have +6 BAB and an extra +2 from rage strength, making it +8/3.

    And I was actually just thinking about zweihander ranger 6 with a greatsword vs 2WF ranger 6 with two shortswords. They do the exact same damage each round if they both hit with all their attacks. The 2WF ranger gets a +1 attack bonus relative to the zweihander ranger, and can distribute the damage more evenly among multiple targets. Okay, that's not nothing, but it's not much. Also, he had to spend two feats for this. The zweihander ranger, on the other hand, has 10' reach, guaranteeing him attacks of opportunity against every humanoid foe that dares to approach him. He's a ranger, so he's probably got a decent dex, and he's got two feats that he didn't have to spend just to use his weapon, which means he can take Combat Reflexes. But even without that, just getting one attack of opportunity against a given opponent would more than offset the +1 attack bonus the 2WF ranger would get in most fights, I think. Mages can't 5' step back from the zweihander like they can from the 2WF ranger, he can fight from behind the fighter, and all sorts of goodness opens up.

    My point here is basically: Reach is scary. Attack of opportunities are scary, and interact weirdly with a lot of things. If you just changed zweihander's 6th level bonus to be less good, the two would be more even - for the ranger, at least.
    (Personally, I'd suggest wrapping "Improved two weapon fighting" and "Two weapon fighting" into one feat. That feat would be called "Two weapon fighting".)

    As a theoretical - What would happen if the spiked chain didn't exist, and a Fighter had to choose between Reach and adjacency?
    Then the world would be a much happier place. And I think most fighters would take adjacency, as they should; it's normally a bad idea to try to fight a guy with a sword in your face when you have a weapon that's designed to be used in mass combat lines.

    Not a bad idea actually, just make it a flat bonus.

    Pressure (Ex): At second level, if an opponent that the Fighter threatens attacks or otherwise targets anyone other than the fighter on their turn, the Fighter gets a Circumstance bonus to attacks equal to half their Fighter level against that opponent until the end of their next turn. This bonus does not stack with itself.
    Opponents threatened by the fighter are aware of this ability.

    Disrupt (Ex): At third level, any target the Fighter threatens suffers an attack penalty equal to half the Fighter's level on attacks or abilities against targets other than the Fighter.
    Opponents threatened by the fighter are aware of this ability.
    Yeah, I like this a lot better. It still makes the opponent want to hit the fighter, but it's smoother in play. And scaling it to the fighter's level prevents dipping for it - good call.

    Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2.

    Fire bows in melee without provoking AoOs.
    Fast movement, with the uncanny ability to dodge blows nimbly.
    Favoured Terrain is underground and urban (Humanoid target of choice being other humans), with the extra +2 bonus to the urban.
    +2 Hitpoints and reduced damage taken for being Tough as Nails, D12 + 3D8 + 1D10 HP.
    And they can put themselves between incoming ranged attacks, letting them protect important targets.
    Two Bonus Fighter feats invested into archery.

    Skills include some points in: Balance, Climb, Craft (Fletching), Jump, Knowledge (Local), Spot, Tumble.

    Ignored features:
    They have a bit of a temper.
    They can theoretically track people, despite having no points in survival to do so (Effectively a non-ability).
    They can, but probably don't, use heavy armour and shields.
    They're pretty good in melee combat situations.

    No nature love, no cute animal buddy, ranged combat ability out the wazoo.

    Single classes are for being specific archetypes. If your desired archetype doesn't fit, then multiclassing is for being generic.

    If an archetype cannot be fulfilled by multiclassing, that's when a new class to fulfil that archetype becomes necessary.
    I think that build is a good solution within the system. But doesn't that strike you as being unnecessarily convoluted, with a fair number of features being intentionally ignored (and favored terrain, while not bad, being largely irrelevant to the archetype)?

    I guess this is a difference of style more than a any flaw that would make your system bad, but I would disagree with the idea that a single class is for being a specific archetype. Some are, yes. But I see two types of classes in core D&D. Barbarians, bards, druids, monks, rangers, and paladins are "specialist" classes. They fit specific archetypes, like you're saying. But clerics, fighters, rogues, sorcerers, and wizards are "general" classes. They have fewer class features, and the ones they do have are far more generic. That's not a bug; that's a feature. It's intentional! You can make them into whatever you want. Imagine if all sorcerers got an ability like Warmage Edge. Players would feel pressured to make their sorcerers into blasters. Sure, they could just ignore it - but that feels weird. People respond to incentives, and what they think they're "expected" to do.

    As it is, you can make an illusionist, a blaster, an enchanter, or whatever your role is without having to ignore any signals telling you that you're doing it wrong. Your cleric can be a scholar, a healer, a buffer, a tank - whatever you want - without worrying about ignoring his class features. I think that's it's really important to keep those "generic" classes. And I think the popularity of wizards and clerics shows that "generic" doesn't mean boring, and it doesn't mean weak. It just means flexible.

    Multiclassing can be for fulfilling a specific archetype, yes. But that is usually reserved for archetypes specifically about blending two other roles. You have to multiclass if your archetype is "Casts cool spells and hit stuff". You have to multiclass if your goal is "Love nature in a really angry way". That's what multiclassing is great at. But "shoots people from range" isn't an obscure niche. It's not something that should take three classes to describe accurately. It's something that is mainstream enough to get support on its own terms in a way that a more specific idea, like "uses a polearm in light armor", doesn't need.

    Basically, feats, specialist classes, and spell or other ability selection are generally reserved for defining precise sub-archetypes like "protecting people"; there are multiple different ways to protect people. It doesn't need a class with major features specifically for protecting people. Or maybe it could have one - but then that's more of a "knight" or "guardian", not something with a generic name like "fighter". It's not that your class is a bad class! I just wish it was a fighting class instead of the fighting class.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Your numbers confuse me. I assume they represent "6th level character, ignoring all bonuses except BAB and class features". In which case, sure, the ranger has +7/7/2/2, and the fighter has +6/1 with the spiked chain or greatsword. But how does the barbarian have only +4/4/-1? By my count, he should have +6 BAB and an extra +2 from rage strength, making it +8/3.
    Oh, you're right. Barbarians would be +6/+6/+1 whilst raging (Check out their Rampage ability).

    And I was actually just thinking about zweihander ranger 6 with a greatsword vs 2WF ranger 6 with two shortswords. They do the exact same damage each round if they both hit with all their attacks.
    What if both of their weapons are +1 flaming? That's 8D6 +4 + 3x Strength Bonus versus 6D6 + 2 + 3x Strength bonus. If it's against an enemy they have a bonus against? 8D6 + 16 + 3x Strength Bonus versus 6D6 + 8 + 3x Strength Bonus.

    TWF always gets more out of bonus damage than THF, and at -1/-1 the TWFer can TWF with two one-handed weapons and power attack too against high HP, low AC targets.

    ...he can fight from behind the fighter, and all sorts of goodness opens up.
    If the fighter's between him and his target then the target gets +4 cover AC against him. But you've reminded me of an oversight, I wanted the Ranger's level 6 to be like the Bo9S stance of which I forget the name Dancing Blade Form (if it's not self-evident, the spirit of the Bo9S translated non-scary, non-"spell-like" terms is another thing I'd like to bring in).

    Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two-hands, a ranger adds 5' to their reach, but only during their own turn. Outside of their turn their reach is as normal for the wielded weapon.

    How's this?

    (Personally, I'd suggest wrapping "Improved two weapon fighting" and "Two weapon fighting" into one feat. That feat would be called "Two weapon fighting".)
    Seems fair. Done.


    Then the world would be a much happier place. And I think most fighters would take adjacency, as they should; it's normally a bad idea to try to fight a guy with a sword in your face when you have a weapon that's designed to be used in mass combat lines.
    I'm strongly leaning to pulling it out, bring in a Haft Grip feat (THF feat tax?) to be able to use reach weapons in melee at a -2 penalty or so.
    I'd probably make the quarterstaff usable at reach during your own turn if you don't use it as a double weapon though, that one always bugged me.



    Yeah, I like this a lot better. It still makes the opponent want to hit the fighter, but it's smoother in play. And scaling it to the fighter's level prevents dipping for it - good call.
    Grand. Implemented.

    I think that build is a good solution within the system. But doesn't that strike you as being unnecessarily convoluted, with a fair number of features being intentionally ignored (and favored terrain, while not bad, being largely irrelevant to the archetype)?
    Tracking isn't an ability.
    Being good in melee is universally common, it's a flaw of the BAB system.
    If you used the fighter, you're ignoring armour anyway, now you have a valid benefit to doing so.

    Really the only thing being ignored is a single rage per day.

    Is favoured terrain irrelevant? I would rather enjoy it, the character shown is a soldier, he's better against humans because he's a soldier and been in the wars. If he were a Katniss-archetype then he'd get a bonus in temperate forests instead, to represent the fact that he learned to be that good through a career hunting animals.

    I believe this is indeed a stylistic difference; to me, an ability is only its mechanical application, and any way the player wants to paint those mechanics is up to them:
    - Monk being a Queensbury rules Boxer? Easy.
    - Rogue being a shady.... Accountant? Actually completely simple to do.
    - Paladin being a cleric? Yes.
    - Mage being a cleric? Again, yes.
    - Bard being a cleric? Yes again, their inspirations are sermon-based.
    - Ranger being a Druid? Yes and back again.
    - Barbarian being a noble samurai? Actually yes. Raging becomes "battle focus", and they take Craft (Calligraphy).

    The biggest issue overall in Core is that you can't take Trapfinding without being a sneak attacker, everything else, totally doable.

    However, if Animal Companion were part of the Bestial Fighting Style, and the Ranger didn't get spells at all (I think they should be powerful enough on their own to do without 2-3 level 1 spells a day), what would be an appropriate Zweihander/Archery/Twin Weapon benefit to substitute?


    Fighter renamed to Warrior, it's a better name anyway.


    Still working on the Mage and their Spell List, but here's what they've got so far:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mages are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a mageís gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

    Spells: A mage casts arcane spells which are drawn from the spell list associated with their Arcane Focus. They can cast any spell they know without preparing it ahead of time.
    To learn or cast a spell, a mage must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mageís spell is 10 + the spell level + the mageís Charisma modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a mage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table. In addition, they receives bonus spells per day if they have a high Intelligence score.

    Familiar: A mage can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.
    The mage chooses the kind of familiar they get. As the mage advances in level, their familiar also increases in power.
    If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the mage, the mage must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means they takes 2 points of Constitution damage; success reduces the loss to half that amount. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.
    A character with more than one class that grants a familiar combines the levels for both classes for determining the strength of their familiar, however they may have only one familiar at a time.

    Cantrips: Mages begin play knowing all cantrips on their spell list. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots when cast and may be used again.

    Arcane Focus: At first level, a mage must select the area of magical study in which they specialise. This determines which schools of spells they have access to, and the benefits they receive in this area of study as they increase in level. A mage knows all the spells in the school spell lists of their arcane focus. Depending on their Arcane Focus the mage may use a different attribute for determining which spells they are able to cast, their DC, and their bonus spells per day.

    Nature
    Improved Familiar (Ex): At 2nd level, Mages with an Arcane Focus in Nature's familiars improve beyond standard norms. These familiars now consider their Hitdice to be magical beast Hitdice for the purpose of determining HP and Base Attack Bonus.

    Extended Summons (Ex): At 4th level, Mages with an Arcane Focus in Nature may increase the duration of their Conjuration(Summoning) spells by a number of rounds equal to half their Mage level.

    Shapeshifter (Su): At 6th level, Mages with an Arcane Focus in Nature gain the ability to shift into a bestial form once per day. When they shift, they may choose an aquatic, avian, predator or prey form. The Mage may remain in this for for up to one hour and may revert to their normal form as a standard action. The mage may not use spells or spell-like abilities whilst shifted. The physical appearance of these forms (outside of the requisite gross physical changes necessary for their new abilities) is up to the mage.
    Aquatic: Gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, and a Swim speed equal to their base land speed, the Mage may freely breathe water as easily as they breathe air,
    Avian: Gain +4 Dexterity and a Fly speed equal to twice their base land speed with average manoeuvrability.
    Predator: Gain +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity and +2 Constitution, two claw natural attacks (1D4 for a medium creature) and low-light vision out to 30'.
    Prey: Gain +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity and +2 Wisdom, and a +10 bonus to the mage's base land speed. The mage also gains a climb speed equal to half their new base land speed.

    Healing
    Turn Undead (Su): At 2nd level a mage with an Arcane Focus in Healing can turn or destroy undead creatures. A mage may attempt to turn undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + their Charisma modifier (to a minimum of 1). A mage with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

    "Lay on Hands (Su): At 4th level a mage with an Arcane Focus in Healing may heal wounds with a touch. Each day they may heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to their mage level ◊ their Charisma bonus (or x1 if their Charisma is 12 or lower). A mage may choose to divide their healing among multiple recipients, and they do not have to use it all at once. Using Lay on Hands is a standard action.

    Alternatively, a mage can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesnít provoke an attack of opportunity. The mage decides how many of their daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature."

    Raise the Fallen (Sp): At 6th level a mage with an Arcane Focus in Healing may restore life to a deceased creature by touching them as a full round action. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than six rounds. In addition, the subjectís soul must be free and willing to return. If the subjectís soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesnít prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.
    A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creatureís equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.
    Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures canít be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
    This ability is incredibly draining on both the recipient and the Mage, and Constitution damage equal to the number of hit dice the raised creature possesses is divided between the two of them however the Mage wishes.

    Necromancy
    Rebuke Undead (Su): At 2nd level a mage with an Arcane Focus in Necromancy can rebuke or command undead creatures. A mage may attempt to rebuke undead a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier (to a minimum of 1). A mage with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

    Grim Familiar (Ex): At 4th level the familiar of a mage with an Arcane Focus in Necromancy becomes a foul, undead thing. It gains the undead subtype and loses its constitution score. Its hitdie changes to D12s and it gains all undead traits and immunities. It retains good Fortitude and Reflex saves whilst gaining a good Will save from its new subtype.
    Should the mage's familiar be killed, the mage no longer risks taking constitution damage, instead, so long as the mage is still alive, the familiar returns to life at the mage's side 1D10 days after its apparent death.

    Deathless (Ex): At 6th level a mage with an Arcane Focus in Necromancy becomes an undead creature themselves. They gain all the advantages and disadvantages of the undead subtype, losing their constitution score and replacing their Hitdice with D12s. They may no longer be theyaled by the use of the Heal skill, but may regain hitpoints from negative energy as standard for an undead creature. They may still recover hitpoint and ability damage at the same rate as a living creature. The mage gains a +3 racial bonus to will saves to resist turn attempts made against them.

    Mysticism
    Forbidden Knowledge (Ex): At 2nd level, a Mage with an arcane focus in mysticism taps into forgotten eldritch lore. They gain an insight bonus equal to half their mage level to all Knowledge checks, and may use all knowledge skills untrained.

    Prescience (Su): At 4th level, a Mage with an arcane focus in Mysticism develops a preternatural ability to sense danger. The mage may always act in the surprise round of any combat, if there is one, even if they would not normally be able to. They gain a +4 insight bonus to initiative rolls.

    Thought Before Action (Su): At 6th level, a Mage with an arcane focus in Mysticism may substitute their will save for their reflex save for any effect that would ordinarily require a reflex saving throw. Should the effect normally deal half damage on a successful saving throw the mage takes no damage instead.

    Warmagic
    Edge (Ex): A 2nd level mage with an arcane focus in Warmagic gains a competence bonus to attack rolls with spells and spell-like abilities, and to damage rolls of any spell that deals hitpoint damage, equal to half their mage level.

    Battle Training (Ex): A 4th level mage with an arcane focus in Warmagic gains a +1 bonus to attack, and proficiency with all martial weapons.

    Armoured Mage (Ex): A 6th level mage with an arcane focus in Warmagic gains light armour proficiency, and may cast spells in light armour without a chance of arcane spell failure.

    Shaping
    Perfectionism (Ex): A 2nd level mage with an Arcane Focus in Shaping gains a permanent +1 inherent bonus to a physical ability score of their choice.

    Shadowspell Study (Ex): A 4th level mage with an Arcane Focus in Shaping becomes able to weave reality into their illusion spells, enabling them to emulate a real spell with an illusion.
    The mage may select a single 1st of 2nd level spell of any spell list that isn't conjuration, illusion or transmutation. This spell is added to their list of spells known as an illusion spell with a Will save if interacted with. If this will save is successful, then the spell is only at 20% strength compared to the real spell. The mage themselves always automatically passes this Will save.

    Creation (Sp): At 6th level, a mage who has an arcane focus in Shaping may practise an arcane ritual to convert raw material into the form of their choice. This effect may manipulate up to 10 cubic feet of material to be converted into a form of the mage's choosing. The mage must make an appropriate Craft check to shape articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
    This ritual may be performed once per week, and requires an uninterrupted period of ten minutes for the preparation and casting of this ritual. The mage may double the length of preparation and casting to manipulate larger objects, increasing the material affected by 10 cubic feet each time the casting duration is doubled. The mage must provide all raw materials for this ritual.

    Arcane Focus - Casting Stat - Speciality Bonus 1 - Speciality Bonus 2 - Speciality Bonus 3
    Nature - Wisdom - Improved Familiar - Grand Summon - Shapeshifter
    Healing - Wisdom - Turn Undead - Lay on Hands - Raise the Fallen
    Necromancy - Charisma - Rebuke Undead - Grim Familiar - Deathless
    Mysticism - Intelligence - Forbidden Knowledge - Prescience - Thought Before Action
    Warmagic - Charisma - Edge - Battle Training - Armoured Mage
    Shaping - Intelligence - Perfectionism - Shadowspell Study - Creation

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Before I reply to this, I just want to say - Kholai, you're awesome. I love this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    Oh, you're right. Barbarians would be +6/+6/+1 whilst raging (Check out their Rampage ability).
    Right! I saw that, but forgot about it. The mechanic is a nice way of reinforcing the theme that barbarians use big weapons, too. I like it.

    What if both of their weapons are +1 flaming? That's 8D6 +4 + 3x Strength Bonus versus 6D6 + 2 + 3x Strength bonus. If it's against an enemy they have a bonus against? 8D6 + 16 + 3x Strength Bonus versus 6D6 + 8 + 3x Strength Bonus.
    You're ignoring the price issue; for less than the price of two +1 flaming weapons, you could get a single +1 flaming frost weapon. Then it's 8d6 + 4 + 3x Strength vs 8d6 + 2 + 3x Strength. You're in almost the exact same place.

    TWF always gets more out of bonus damage than THF
    TWF also suffers more under damage penalties (such as from being sickened) and doesn't benefit anywhere near as much from extra attacks (such as from attacks of opportunity!). TWF also a terrible time against enemies with DR.

    It's true that the two are best in different situations; if you've got a bard on your side, no damage penalties, and you're fighting enemies from your favored terrain without DR, you would rather TWF than THF, as long as you can stand still while fighting. But the situational modifiers are not enough to favor TWF over THF - and depending on the prevalence of DR and attacks of opportunity, I'd say that they still favor THF over TWF.

    But I think the killer problem is that TWF suffers so much from moving while fighting. If you assume a single round of "moving into position" in the above example (and there can often be more than that), where the ranger would only get a single attack, THF doesn't suffer much; it only loses its -5 attack. It still does 12d6 + 3 + 4.5x Strength over the first two rounds. TWF, on the other hand, does 10d6 + 5 + 4x Strength over the first two rounds. Assuming an 18 Strength, that's 63 damage for THF and 56 damage for TWF. TWF does 2 extra damage a round normally, so it will take a total of about five rounds of standing still and fighting the same things to even out the damage difference. That's harsh.

    and at -1/-1 the TWFer can TWF with two one-handed weapons and power attack too against high HP, low AC targets.
    So for the price of keeping a spare set of weapons around, the TWFer can use power attack too? Yay! Or if he uses two one-handed weapons for his main weapons, he's basically just under a constant power attack for 2 that he can never turn off. That doesn't seem very appealing to me.

    If the fighter's between him and his target then the target gets +4 cover AC against him. But you've reminded me of an oversight, I wanted the Ranger's level 6 to be like the Bo9S stance of which I forget the name Dancing Blade Form (if it's not self-evident, the spirit of the Bo9S translated non-scary, non-"spell-like" terms is another thing I'd like to bring in).

    Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two-hands, a ranger adds 5' to their reach, but only during their own turn. Outside of their turn their reach is as normal for the wielded weapon.

    How's this?
    Much shinier. And that's actually a great idea - even after talking to you about this for a while, I didn't think to look at ToB for ideas for my own martial fixes. It's got good stuff.

    Seems fair. Done.
    Yay! You'll have to word it carefully so you don't double extra attacks from haste effects - I used "You gain extra attacks from having a high base attack bonus with your off-hand just like you do with your main hand."

    I'm strongly leaning to pulling it out, bring in a Haft Grip feat (THF feat tax?) to be able to use reach weapons in melee at a -2 penalty or so.
    I'd probably make the quarterstaff usable at reach during your own turn if you don't use it as a double weapon though, that one always bugged me.
    That's one solution. I give everyone the ability to switch grips as a move action, and they take a -2 penalty when "short hafting" the weapon. For a feat, they can switch as a swift action and take no penalty when short hafting. It just depends where you want to set the balance point, but I'd recommend not having a penalty once they spend the feat.

    Tracking isn't an ability.
    Being good in melee is universally common, it's a flaw of the BAB system.
    If you used the fighter, you're ignoring armour anyway, now you have a valid benefit to doing so.

    Really the only thing being ignored is a single rage per day.
    I wasn't thinking being good in melee in the sense that BAB applies to both; I was thinking of the melee-only fighter class features gained at levels 1 and 2 (or just at level 2 now, possibly - not sure which version of fighter is most recent).

    And I think you are right that he is only ignoring an acceptable level of features. He doesn't get any sort of cool capstone like a pure class gets, but maybe that's okay.

    Is favoured terrain irrelevant? I would rather enjoy it, the character shown is a soldier, he's better against humans because he's a soldier and been in the wars. If he were a Katniss-archetype then he'd get a bonus in temperate forests instead, to represent the fact that he learned to be that good through a career hunting animals.
    Yeah, I think it can find a home. It's a litte odd, because the vast majority of the skill bonuses will likely be ignored, but it can fit without too much issue.

    I believe this is indeed a stylistic difference; to me, an ability is only its mechanical application, and any way the player wants to paint those mechanics is up to them:
    - Monk being a Queensbury rules Boxer? Easy.
    - Rogue being a shady.... Accountant? Actually completely simple to do.
    - Paladin being a cleric? Yes.
    - Mage being a cleric? Again, yes.
    - Bard being a cleric? Yes again, their inspirations are sermon-based.
    - Ranger being a Druid? Yes and back again.
    - Barbarian being a noble samurai? Actually yes. Raging becomes "battle focus", and they take Craft (Calligraphy).

    The biggest issue overall in Core is that you can't take Trapfinding without being a sneak attacker, everything else, totally doable.
    Well, there are some glitches (apparently, Queensbury rules Boxers are very wise, and apparently accountants are really good at knowing vital spots), but I absolutely agree with your general point: you can refluff classes to make them fit your needs. I can't wait to DM for the Arabic jihadist paladin riding a war camel for a special mount that one of my players will be playing this fall.

    But there are limits: you can take the class fluff out of the mechanics, but you can't take the mechanics out of the class. Dead weight class features bug me. Thus, the ability to refluff doesn't make me want generic classes any less; they are just that much more flexible and able to be molded to suit anyone's needs.

    For some context on what I think of when I think of a "generic" fighter, you can take a look at my Fighter rebuild, if you're interested. It's not too complicated. In my view, all fighters have three things in common: they use armor, they use weapons, and they are disciplined (and even that can be refluffed without changing the mechanics). Everything else is up to the player.

    However, if Animal Companion were part of the Bestial Fighting Style, and the Ranger didn't get spells at all (I think they should be powerful enough on their own to do without 2-3 level 1 spells a day), what would be an appropriate Zweihander/Archery/Twin Weapon benefit to substitute?
    That's interesting indeed - you're basically looking at making rangers the new "generic" class, sort of. Well, you'd want the ability to come at 4th level, right? Two weapon fighting needs mobility more than anything, so let's say that you can take one attack with each weapon as a standard action at normal TWF fighting penalties.

    Zweihander is already (in my view) still the king, so it doesn't need a really powerful ability. Ideally, I'd want something that "pointed to" its final ability, which is a cool one, so I'd want an ability built around threatening squares during the ranger's turn or gets better with reach. It should work with any kind of two-handed weapon, reach or otherwise (generic again!). Animal companions are good at flanking, so why not give a bonus that replaces what the animal companion used to do? "At 4th level, the ranger can designate an opponent that he threatens as a swift action. He can choose to count as occupying any other square he threatens for the purpose of determining flanking bonuses on that creature for him and his allies. He also occupies his current square for flanking an opponent." (stealing some wording from PHB2's Adaptable Flanker)

    For archery, I notice that there are a lot of bonuses for close-range and melee range archers, and not so much for the archers who actually shoot from a distance. I think that "you don't provoke for firing in melee" is sufficiently weird on a world continuity / suspension of disbelief level that I'd push it back to 4th level. Part of the 6th level ability you have ("You don't take any penalty for firing into melee") is a little confusing to me; isn't that Precise Shot, basically a necessity for archers, and something that should be gained early to keep them from suffering -4 penalties (but only if they are working with the rest of the party) for most of their adventuring career? Also, that seems like it needs to be a feat, not a ranger-only special ability; otherwise, it is way too harsh to non-rangers who have the audacity to pick up a bow. This is a lot of changes, so I'll just put my revised list here:
    2nd level: The ranger adds his Wisdom modifier to weapon damage rolls with ranged weapons.
    4th level: The ranger no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for firing or reloading ranged weapons.
    6th level: When using a ranged weapon, the ranger threatens adjacent squares. In addition, as a standard action once per encounter, they may make a single attack with a ranged weapon as a ranged touch attack.

    Personally, this is still too melee oriented for me, but based on your 2nd level ability, you're intentionally going for making that a viable option. The Wisdom modifier to damage helps offset the lower damage dealt by ranged weapons and has a nice fluff justification (Wisdom helps with seeing and observing - it's perfect for seeing the right location to hit).

    Fighter renamed to Warrior, it's a better name anyway.
    Oh no! But the poor NPC class... :P

    Still working on the Mage and their Spell List, but here's what they've got so far:

    Cantrips: Mages begin play knowing all cantrips on their spell list. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots when cast and may be used again.
    Indefinitely spammable cantrips can have really weird effects on the game universe, as my magus in a Pathfinder game I played in was fond of demonstrating. I prefer "get Int mod extra cantrips per day" - it's still more than normal usage would ever need to worry about, but it prevents shenanigans. Unless you're doing this with the intention that mages use cantrips for combat - in which case, I'd advise reconsidering how much you want to nerf mages, because that's really harsh. Personally, I give my mages a refluffed Eldritch Blast called Magic Ray that they can use to not feel useless at low to mid levels.

    There's a lot there, and I'm not sure how to put it all together, but I'd just say - what is a mage's casting stat? I see a contradiction between the initial description (Int to cast, Cha for DCs) and a table at the bottom that lists different casting stats for different focuses.
    Last edited by Vadskye; 2012-08-19 at 01:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Before I reply to this, I just want to say - Kholai, you're awesome. I love this.
    Hey thanks!

    You're ignoring the price issue; for less than the price of two +1 flaming weapons, you could get a single +1 flaming frost weapon. Then it's 8d6 + 4 + 3x Strength vs 8d6 + 2 + 3x Strength. You're in almost the exact same place.
    E6 again, but I checked this, we're both wrong. The CL required to craft an item is 3x its enhancement bonus, or the CL required for the ability.

    So you can't have a +1 Flaming Frost weapon since it's +3, and can't have Flaming at all since it's CL 10th. You can have a +1 Merciful weapon in E6, anything beyond that you're looking at Epic Crafting.

    That's one solution. I give everyone the ability to switch grips as a move action, and they take a -2 penalty when "short hafting" the weapon. For a feat, they can switch as a swift action and take no penalty when short hafting. It just depends where you want to set the balance point, but I'd recommend not having a penalty once they spend the feat.
    Alright, I'll think on it. Almost done with rewriting core spells into spell lists.

    For some context on what I think of when I think of a "generic" fighter, you can take a look at my Fighter rebuild, if you're interested. It's not too complicated:
    Spoiler
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    HTML Code:
    <iframe src="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_lvuybFb5qORFZPUG1nb0FFUW8/preview" width="640" height="480"></iframe>

    In my view, all fighters have three things in common: they use armor, they use weapons, and they are disciplined (and even that can be refluffed without changing the mechanics). Everything else is up to the player.
    So what do I do if I want an unarmoured swordsman? You start focusing on any aspect and it seems inevitable you'll over-think it. Ultimately the only thing you can do for a truly generic class would be:

    Gain flurry like a monk with any weapon.
    The Fighter can flurry on their standard attack action.
    Gain fighter feats as normal.
    Gain a scaling AC dodge bonus like the monk that works in any armour at level 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20 which applies when they're flat footed.
    Give them a level 20 capstone adding a third attack to their flurry.

    Keep 2 skill points a level, D10 HP, and proficiencies.

    Attacks are always good.
    Armoured or not, the fighter gets benefits.
    Eight feats help him however he needs them to.

    He doesn't get boosts or class features, no spells, no buddy almost as strong as he is and he can't do anything someone else can't do better except hit and dodge more often.

    Ranger stuff....
    How about...

    4: Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two-hands, a ranger's weapon is considered one size larger for performing Sunder and Disarm attempts.

    2: Archery: When attacking with a ranged weapon, the ranger may add their Dexterity modifier to damage rolls, to a maximum of +1 per 2 Ranger levels.

    4: Archery: When wielding a ranged weapon, a ranger doubles its range increment.

    6: Archery: When wielding a ranged weapon, the ranger no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for firing or reloading ranged weapons, and threatens adjacent squares as though they were wielding a melee weapon.

    4: Twin Weapons: Whenever they are wielding two weapons or a double weapon, the ranger may attack with their offhand weapon whenever they make a standard attack.

    Indefinitely spammable cantrips can have really weird effects on the game universe, as my magus in a Pathfinder game I played in was fond of demonstrating.
    Having never played PF, I just thought it was a neat feature. I'll bow to your experience with the system and remove it. The difference between E6 mages in melee and a rogue in melee is 1 BAB.

    There's a lot there, and I'm not sure how to put it all together, but I'd just say - what is a mage's casting stat? I see a contradiction between the initial description (Int to cast, Cha for DCs) and a table at the bottom that lists different casting stats for different focuses.
    Told you it was under construction. The mage will have a different casting stat based on speciality.
    Last edited by Kholai; 2012-08-19 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kholai View Post
    E6 again, but I checked this, we're both wrong. The CL required to craft an item is 3x its enhancement bonus, or the CL required for the ability.

    So you can't have a +1 Flaming Frost weapon since it's +3, and can't have Flaming at all since it's CL 10th. You can have a +1 Merciful weapon in E6, anything beyond that you're looking at Epic Crafting.
    Huh, okay. I'm not totally sure what this does for the balance between the fighting styles, but I suspect it doesn't make it that different from normal?

    Alright, I'll think on it. Almost done with rewriting core spells into spell lists.
    As someone who just did this, I encourage you to push back Charm Person and Enlarge Person. I think those both have disproportionate effects as 1st level spells. Charm is 3rd in my system, as is Enlarge (but Enlarge now gives a full +4 Strength and no Dex penalty).

    So what do I do if I want an unarmoured swordsman? You start focusing on any aspect and it seems inevitable you'll over-think it. Ultimately the only thing you can do for a truly generic class would be:

    Gain flurry like a monk with any weapon.
    The Fighter can flurry on their standard attack action.
    Gain fighter feats as normal.
    Gain a scaling AC dodge bonus like the monk that works in any armour at level 4, 8, 12, 16 & 20 which applies when they're flat footed.
    Give them a level 20 capstone adding a third attack to their flurry.

    Keep 2 skill points a level, D10 HP, and proficiencies.

    Attacks are always good.
    Armoured or not, the fighter gets benefits.
    Eight feats help him however he needs them to.

    He doesn't get boosts or class features, no spells, no buddy almost as strong as he is and he can't do anything someone else can't do better except hit and dodge more often.
    Side note: in my system, everyone can full attack as a standard action. So no need to give that as a fighter-specific thing.

    I'd say "unarmored swordsman" is one of those particularly specific archetypes that I'm okay with a little multiclassing; Monk X, maybe with a Fighter 1 splash depending on preference, would do a perfectly fine job at it, though. All you're losing is the flurry; everything else works fine. With that said, I get your point - you can never make a truly totally generic class - but I think this covers a whole heck of a lot of bases really well.

    Extra attacks actually favor (guess who!) two handed fighters significantly more than two-weapon fighters. I rejected giving an extra attack as the greater weapon discipline bonus for exactly that reason; I tried to keep my version really, really combat style agnostic while still granting class features worth looking forward to. The trick is that your quick suggestion doesn't really have that "firewall" between the fighter and other classes; there is nothing he can really call his own. It makes the fighter feel less special, in my view. This way, the fighter is simultaneously special - no one can do the same things the fighter can - and generic - the fighter can be a wide variety of things.


    How about...

    4: Zweihander: When wielding a weapon in two-hands, a ranger's weapon is considered one size larger for performing Sunder and Disarm attempts.
    Why Sunder and Disarm? When I think "ranger", I don't really think "combat maneuver guy". I really doubt Disarm in particular will see much use, since it takes a 13 Int. Rangers are already a bit MAD - very few can afford the Int. That just leaves Sunder, which feels much more barbarian or warrior than ranger. Heck, even the paladin has a stronger fluff argument from my perspective - he might like being good at bringing people back alive.

    2: Archery: When attacking with a ranged weapon, the ranger may add their Dexterity modifier to damage rolls, to a maximum of +1 per 2 Ranger levels.
    Yup, that also works. Though in practice, the cap will basically always just mean "+1 damage per 2 ranger levels", since any archer worth his salt will have a solid Dex.

    4: Archery: When wielding a ranged weapon, a ranger doubles its range increment.
    Interesting. I like that - that makes a ranger a significant threat at long range., particularly in E6 where casters don't have such long range.

    6: Archery: When wielding a ranged weapon, the ranger no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for firing or reloading ranged weapons, and threatens adjacent squares as though they were wielding a melee weapon.
    This is a good capstone. It definitely gives the ranger something special - while still allowing more distance-focused archers to drop out at 4 or 5 to grab fast movement or a fighter bonus feat.

    4: Twin Weapons: Whenever they are wielding two weapons or a double weapon, the ranger may attack with their offhand weapon whenever they make a standard attack.
    Good catch on the double weapon.

    Having never played PF, I just thought it was a neat feature. I'll bow to your experience with the system and remove it. The difference between E6 mages in melee and a rogue in melee is 1 BAB.
    Cool. And... the poor rogue! I'm starting to feel like they're the ones who get the real short end of the stick here...

    Told you it was under construction. The mage will have a different casting stat based on speciality.
    Got it. I'm assuming you're getting rid of clerics and druids, then? Any particular reason why you decided to put it all in one class? It feels a little odd to have four different kinds of warriors, one rogue, and one mage - but that's not necessarily bad, just a change of pace.

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    Default Re: Magic and Item Creation (3.5ish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadskye View Post
    Huh, okay. I'm not totally sure what this does for the balance between the fighting styles, but I suspect it doesn't make it that different from normal?
    Basically "at most +1/+1D6 non lethal or +2" makes TWF get a slight benefit, since +3 is impossible, you can actually pay more for an advantage.

    As someone who just did this, I encourage you to push back Charm Person and Enlarge Person. I think those both have disproportionate effects as 1st level spells. Charm is 3rd in my system, as is Enlarge (but Enlarge now gives a full +4 Strength and no Dex penalty).
    I'd say "unarmored swordsman" is one of those particularly specific archetypes that I'm okay with a little multiclassing; Monk X, maybe with a Fighter 1 splash depending on preference, would do a perfectly fine job at it, though. All you're losing is the flurry; everything else works fine. With that said, I get your point - you can never make a truly totally generic class - but I think this covers a whole heck of a lot of bases really well.
    So unarmoured swordsmen have to be wise, lose their primary class features (flurry, punching like a freight train, magical fists...),

    Extra attacks actually favor (guess who!) two handed fighters significantly more than two-weapon fighters.
    What if Fighter Flurry applied to each hand separately?

    The trick is that your quick suggestion doesn't really have that "firewall" between the fighter and other classes; there is nothing he can really call his own. It makes the fighter feel less special, in my view. This way, the fighter is simultaneously special - no one can do the same things the fighter can - and generic - the fighter can be a wide variety of things.
    That's exactly it. The moment he's special at something, he's not generic.
    Your fighter example favours wearing medium or heavy armour, because that's what Mithril Full Plate is, and at level 9 he gets to move at full speed wearing it, and because if armour counts as Light when it's actually Heavy, then you'd obviously be using that over using light armour that counts as non-armour.
    It favours strong fighters, because Power Attack is the only real way to boost damage when you don't have something like manoeuvres or sneak attack dice to pump it.
    It favours fighters who have a high Constitution, because Fighter Godmode keys off it.
    Depending on the magic setting, it favours him specialising in a weapon type and generalising with armour, because Heavy Fortification is only 36,000 GP and that means he can always be wearing the best defence item with the least restrictions from it.

    Getting +3 from Weapon Focus favours THFing, because that's +6 to damage from Power Attack. Getting +3 to damage favouring TWF doesn't cover it.

    Taking 10 favours THF again, since you can take Slashing Flurry for a Greatsword and take 10 on three hits at full BAB -5 with Slashing Flurry and Weapon Supremacy.

    Maths:

    Spoiler
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    With +25 from BAB and taking 10, one assumes 28 Strength unbuffed for another +9, +3 from Weapon Focus, +1 from Greater Weapon Focus, +2 MWM, and a +5 sword? You can safely power attack for -10 damage against the Tarrasque for ~135 damage a turn before rolling your 6D6 damage dice, unbuffed.
    Slap on a Greater Heroism for an extra +24 damage, Haste for another +57, and you still have two chances to auto-crit (which also helps THF more, since when you can't hit you just pile on a full 20 to Power Attack and wait for your Scythe to roll a 20...).

    So 192 damage + 8D6 + whatever else you've got enchanted on that greatsword + any other buffs you care to put on, and you have two attacks which will probably miss but if either Threatens then it will auto-confirm and that's +16 Power Attack x 2 x 3 for a juicy 96 damage from Power Attack alone.

    Throw in Leap Attack, since full attacking is free, and you're dealing 180 damage a turn solely from Power Attack, basically making the Tarrasque roll Fort against Massive Damage four times a turn.


    And let's not forget that it favours 13 Intelligence, dump Wisdom, dump Charisma, just like always.

    It's a powerful and valid class, but the moment you step into adding something, even a +1 to hit, you step towards rewarding one archetype over others. It's an almost inescapable flaw in the D20 system.

    Why Sunder and Disarm? When I think "ranger", I don't really think "combat maneuver guy". I really doubt Disarm in particular will see much use, since it takes a 13 Int. Rangers are already a bit MAD - very few can afford the Int. That just leaves Sunder, which feels much more barbarian or warrior than ranger. Heck, even the paladin has a stronger fluff argument from my perspective - he might like being good at bringing people back alive.
    Because Sunder and Disarm checks are the only ones where weapon-size matters, and because I agreed that Zweihander doesn't need much more help after a free Power Attack (that combines with regular Power Attack), and because a disarm or sunder attempt with Reach against anything without reach is actually the equivalent of a free Improved X which stacks.

    Why is the full BAB class dedicated to combat styles not capable of Combat Manoeuvres when they're theoretically just as good as another full BAB class? An outdoorsy guy who goes into things swinging two swords around or shooting arrows is very, very different to an Urban ranger who tears through heavily armoured opponents with a two handed sword.
    Can't see an Aragorn-like knocking some guy's sword out of their hand, or shattering their sword with his? I sure can.

    Secondly, why do you think Rangers are MAD? A Zweihander specialist needs Strength, Constitution, and a little Dex for evasion purposes. There's no spellcasting anymore, not even Wild Empathy, there's no MADness left.

    Yup, that also works. Though in practice, the cap will basically always just mean "+1 damage per 2 ranger levels", since any archer worth his salt will have a solid Dex.
    Pretty much, I based it on the Duellist, and if someone wants to extend this into a full 20 levels, then things don't work out that way.

    the poor rogue! I'm starting to feel like they're the ones who get the real short end of the stick here...
    Yeah, I'm having real trouble making the Rogue viable (not that the original Rogue was), I may give them a few more scaled down versions of their level 10 specialties.

    Got it. I'm assuming you're getting rid of clerics and druids, then? Any particular reason why you decided to put it all in one class? It feels a little odd to have four different kinds of warriors, one rogue, and one mage - but that's not necessarily bad, just a change of pace.
    Yeah, Clerics and Druids being able to cast magic in armour whilst Wizards and Sorcerers can't and all the various niggles just struck me as incredibly arbitrary. Now there's Bards (who get limited numbers of spells in the Shaping and Healing spell lists), and there are mages.

    Honestly Mages could just as easily be written as five classes, but it saved space to just cover them as one.

    Rogue being the only roguish one is basically because this is based (at least mostly) off Core.

    All core spells have been modified, so in a terrible case of on-topicness I'll be replacing the OP with the spells that have been drastically lowered from Core for balance consideration prior to bringing out the Mage spell lists for review.

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