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2012-08-25, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.
If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).
The best answer is always to ask your DM.
Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.
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2012-08-26, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Texas
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-26, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Last edited by eggs; 2012-08-26 at 12:43 AM.
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2012-08-26, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
So judges don't see till it's decided by the chairman
Spoiler
I wouldn't say you're that guy. I believe he is confusing an evil alignment with the evil subtype. I am unable to find any errata to suggest that, and have never heard anything about that. After my initial readthrough of the build, I too see that he fails to qualify for FoC. I agree it's a shame, I enjoy the flavor and theme of his build and thought it was interesting, but he doesn't have the evil subtype.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-26, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Chicago Suburbs
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
GAH. I so badly did NOT want to work tonight. Craptastic.
Well, having missed the deadline, I was working on a Beguiler 2/Human Paragon 3/Mindbender 1/Flayerspawn Psychic 4/AotS 10 design. All I needed was formatting and assembly, too.
Poo.Last edited by TroubleBrewing; 2012-08-26 at 01:35 AM.
Iron Chef Award!
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2012-08-26, 06:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
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2012-08-26, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
The inquiry regarding Luc's qualification has its answer right in Luc's entry. Clarifying:
Originally Posted by Luc
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2012-08-26, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Ehh... seems a little fishy to me.
Means that you're dependant on the Rituals being allowed (as in a practical game they're 3.0 material and so DMs might not allow them). Like some builds are dependant on a certain item, that one's reliant on a certain Ritual.
I mean, I love the build and all, but it just still seems a little... twisty.
*applauds anyway*
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2012-08-26, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
And that makes four folks who may be competing and have gone on record with which build is/isn't likely to be their own.
Knock it off.
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2012-08-26, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Never got time to submit my second build, which I'll leave until after the contestants are revealed due to its similarity to another entry.
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2012-08-26, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Lots of imperious commanders, huh? I predict a collective smiting in Originality.
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2012-08-26, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-26, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.
If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).
The best answer is always to ask your DM.
Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.
-
2012-08-26, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-26, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-26, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Fixing the reply glitch, and also, it's after the fact, but I did continue to toy around with the Thayan Slaver build that I couldn't quite get off the ground. Here is where it has more or less been left:
Human, Spellthief 5/AotS 10/Thayan Slaver 5
1- Martial Study (Devoted Spirit), Willing Deformity
3- Practiced Spellcaster (Spellthief)
6- Abominable Form
9- Snatch Trophy
12- Bloodsoaked Intimidate
15- Deformity (madness)
18- Master Spellthief
Fluff was going to be a slaver who is known for skinning and flaying those who displease him, and who one day skinned a barbazu and wore that skin as his own. He uses Snatch Trophy to steal bits of his opponent's skin as a trophy, and Bloodsoaked Intimidate to get off swift action demoralize attempts as much as possible (which, thanks to his Thayan Slaver levels, have the bonus of dealing Wisdom damage every time he wins the check by 10 or more).
Thus far, that's the best I could come up with... I also messed around with a half-orc version using Half-Orc Paragon, but it was tough fitting all the necessary components together, and ended up requiring a lot of dips to fit everything. It was theoretically a good bit stronger, but it would have gotten slammed in elegance (three one-level base class dips). And I had another version that involved familiars, with some cool tricks on that end, but it was too feat starved.
Oh well... my own fault for waiting until the last minute to start putting things on paper.Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-26, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Kitchener/Waterloo
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
There were a few early qualifications, but I'm surprised nobody tried to qualify early with racial features. Genasi and Duergar can both manage it. Problem is, both get penalties to Charisma, so I couldn't think of anything to do with their builds beyond that (and the fluff of the Duergar being a wannabe Durzagon).
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
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2012-08-26, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Hmm... Could maybe do something with that, although the LA means that without LA buyoff (which almost always results in a small hit to Elegance in IC), you're not actually coming out ahead any even with the early entry. Still, could be fun to toy around with.
Since intimidating builds were common, maybe something with Dread Tyranny on a cleric base? That gives you Intimidate as a class skill and lets you add your Strength bonus to your Intimidate checks, making the Charisma penalties a little less painful. The Fiendish Glare's save would be a little lower, which is a shame since it would hurt that nice stun effect, but the 10 minute shaken would still kick in.
EDIT: Actually, thinking on it more, the Aventi from Stormwrack could do it without a Charisma penalty and without any LA, as could the Dream Dwarves from Races of Stone....Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2012-08-26 at 05:25 PM.
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-26, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
I considered entering using a Pixie with the SLAs somehow, but that eats up a lot of levels and was sure that someone would go "I wonder who that could be."
Yes, failed my save against the Illusion of Transparency.
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2012-08-26, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Just so you know that I deliver: 2 of the 10 builds (a whole 1/5th of the competition) has been judged.
And, as usual, the statistics thus far: using Word Starter, the document is already 9 pages, 5,719 words and a whopping 26,616 characters (without spaces). I did mention you guys to "expect a long read", and I'll be darned if I don't deliver!
Can't say much, though. I don't wish to keep you on the expectative, but after I complete 80% or so I can give a few details about the judging. If things go right (given that I have to work), I expect judging to be done in a week and a half. I wish to aim for, as a bare minimum, 5 days if I do 2 builds per day, but not even I'm that amazing!Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th Edition
On Lawful Good:
T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.
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2012-08-26, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
in contests past, assuming LA buyoff usually means more than a small hit.
has anyone ever actually taken dread tyranny? it seems like it would be useful, but I've never really been able to make it fit.
aventi plus other tricks for early entry could get you in two levels early instead of one. that's a really good catch, plus you could fluff it as a selkie like thing since they wear skins as their shtick.
congrats! good job on placing that time around.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-26, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
That's good... You'd have to use something that boosts CL that also works on [Water] spells, but that's not hard. I don't know of any Illusion, Necro or Enchantment [Water] spells, so that nixes a couple of the tricks used in this particular IC, but Spell Thematics should still work. An aventi cleric with the Creation domain would have a CL of 5 on the Create Water spell, and I'm sure one of the reserve feats would also do the trick.
A dream dwarf cloistered cleric would also qualify by level three, without needing any other feats or anything. +1 to divination spells from being a dream dwarf, +1 for the Knowledge domain.Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-26, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
right. the only reserve feat that boosts spells with the water descriptor is drowning glance, which requires being able to cast 4th level spells, which is not feasible at a level that you could enter acolyte early. a cleric also has a divine CL, not an arcane one, so you'd need to drag southern magician into the mix too. since that requires mulan, which an aventi can't simultaneously be, I think that cleric's out.
I'm less familiar with dream dwarves, that was a good catch. in order to prevent the schroedinger's cat paradox that CWar invented regarding prcs, you'd have to never be out of contact with the ground, like Antaeus. If you could find a god that gave you knowledge and oracle (cdiv) domains, or were able to boost your CL that'd overlap with divination spells and just the oracle domain, you wouldn't have this issueI've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-26, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Suburban Dystopia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Interesting that only one build uses alternate caster progression. I'd have thought that would be the way to go with a 1/2 caster PrC.
I was working on a "Demon of the Forest" build combining Nentyar Hunter and Acolyte of the Skin. I was plugging the Kara Tur angle and had Knowledge Devotion and Shiba Protector powering it up in melee, but I couldn't quite finish it in time. Ah well.
Anyway, judging is underway. Results soon!.
Ding, You've Got Trophies!Spoiler
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens
Oh, and DFTBA.
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2012-08-26, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
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- Suburban Dystopia
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
.
Ding, You've Got Trophies!Spoiler
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens
Oh, and DFTBA.
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2012-08-26, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Well, since you're freely speaking of builds...as I mentioned, I didn't made a build for this one because it's not my plate, but you know what I missed seeing?
Nar Demonbinder. Really, the fluff just fits so nicely (though you'd get very late, 8th level at most, but you get 7 levels of the PrC), and the only thing you'd have lost would be the Baleful Energy capstone. Something like Binder 1/wizard or wu jen class 3/Anima Mage 4/Nar Demonbinder 2/AotS 10. That nets 8th level spells, manipulation of vestiges as a 5th level binder but using 4th level vestiges, a fiendish familiar and fiendish qualities.
How many of you guys thought of that? I'm terrible at spellcasters, but that idea dropped up recently and fits quite well: Binder 1, Improved Binding lets you bind 2nd level vestiges so one prereq is met, Intimidate and Knowledge (the planes) are class skills for the Binder, three levels in Wizard or Wu Jen nets you 2nd level spells (another prereq met), enough levels for Imp. Binding and a metamagic feat, so Anima Mage prereqs are met. From there, all you need is play with the cards so that you delay entry into Nar Demonbinder using 6th and 9th levels for Iron Will and Greater Spell Focus (conjuration), and finally dipping into Nar Demonbinder, saving all remaining levels for fulfillment of 8th level spells. I believe it could be done without using human, even.
But again, I thought of this right now, and it wasn't my plate. I'm still gunning for the other one. Still resting from judgment; I expect to finish one or two more tomorrow.Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th Edition
On Lawful Good:
T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.
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2012-08-26, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
As gbprime pointed out, AotS doesn't specify arcane versus divine - any caster will do (including shadowcasters, warlocks, et al).
And I was thinking of the acid and cold-based Reserve feats, which IIRC can be taken by third level. There has to be some low level spell with both the [Acid] or [Cold] tag and the [Water] tag, right?*
*Purely conjecture, I don't have a specific spell in mind. I'm just spitballin', thinking of all the different ways an aventi could qualify for the prestige class by third level.
Originally Posted by T.G. OskarOptimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
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Iron Chef Awards!
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IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2012-08-27, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
'Allo, poppet. 'Twas I!
Erp, sorry about that.
I stumbled across Snatch Trophy/Bloodsoaked Intimidate myself in Round XIX, as it coupled nicely with the Quick Draw required by the Secret Ingredient and the TWF it provided. Thayan Slaver is a great addition, however.
I thought about a few races that might be able to qualify without class levels, but I didn't want to waste the few additional caster levels this Ingredient gave. That caused me to look for monsters with innate spellcasting, but I didn't know any good low-level ones or whether PrCs could progress their casting.
I thought I thought of that, but just now realized that Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East) is different than Demonbinder (Drow of the Underdark). I was wondering what all the fuss was about, as Demonbinder didn't seem like the best PrC, so I dropped the idea. Whoops.
If you want to get really technical about it, you don't even have to use a casting class. According to the PHB, page 181: "A creature with no classes has a caster level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified." So any creature that just has 5+ HD and no class levels could qualify.
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2012-08-27, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
of course it was. like I'd forget
I stumbled across Snatch Trophy/Bloodsoaked Intimidate myself in Round XIX, as it coupled nicely with the Quick Draw required by the Secret Ingredient and the TWF it provided. Thayan Slaver is a great addition, however.
I thought I thought of that, but just now realized that Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East) is different than Demonbinder (Drow of the Underdark). I was wondering what all the fuss was about, as Demonbinder didn't seem like the best PrC, so I dropped the idea. Whoops.
If you want to get really technical about it, you don't even have to use a casting class. According to the PHB, page 181: "A creature with no classes has a caster level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified." So any creature that just has 5+ HD and no class levels could qualify.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2012-08-27, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Kitchener/Waterloo
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!