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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    I think someone said something about brevity once.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonRoach View Post
    There going to be a summation at the beginning? Not that keen to read a whole essay you've repeatedly mention is liable to be vitriolic at various points
    Sorta. More like it'll be spoilered several times, then there's gonna be a brief bit explaining the score. It'll be pretty brief, but if you want the whole meat, you'll have to open the spoilers within the spoilers, which hold all the content and whatnot.

    Here are some examples of earlier judgments I did. That's how it's gonna be presented to you, so judge yourself whether it's brief or necessary. At least I tell you how advanced I am every single time, and unless some catastrophic thing happens, judgings shouldn't be later than late Monday/Tuesday at most.

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    I think someone said something about brevity once.
    I...distinctively recall that, which is what made me frown from judging some time ago. But I feel that a brief judging doesn't make justice to the competitor, because it feels too mechanical. Well, that and my usual inability to post anything with fewer than 500 words whenever it has to deal with exposition. Regular posts generally are more than 150-200 words at most. Definitely not 2 or 3, much less 20 or possibly 30.
    Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
    Now with a comprehensive guide for 3.5 Paladin players porting to Pathfinder. Also available for 5th Edition
    On Lawful Good:
    Quote Originally Posted by firebrandtoluc View Post
    My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.
    T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.

  3. - Top - End - #183

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    8 judgments so far, so soon you'll see my results. That said, I promised I'd deliver some data after 8 judgings were done, and I'm a man of my word.

    [...]

    Finally, the tally of content thus far. Will I break my earlier records of content? We shall see once I deliver:
    Pages: 29
    Words: 19,059
    Characters (without spaces): 88,904
    Alright then, let's see my previous estimate: 37 and a half pages, nearly 23,000 words, and almost 109,000 characters (without spaces).

    With these new numbers you've given us, the new estimate is: 36.25 pages, nearly 24,000 words, and 111,130 characters without spaces.

    I'm... not quite sure how the estimate of words and characters went up, but the estimate of pages went down. Are you using a lot of small words in the most recent judgments?

    Anyway, I can't wait to see this monster of a judging you're going to be handing down... but at the same time, I fear it shall bring about the end of the world.
    It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.

    If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).

    The best answer is always to ask your DM.
    Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Argh blargh.

    Two weeks out of the loop, and THIS is the contest I miss? The one we've been talking about since, like, ever? Wonderful.

    But hey, at least I get to read over some tasty entries. Heh.
    Awesome fremetar by wxdruid.

    From the discomfort of truth there is only one refuge and that is ignorance. I do not need to be comfortable, and I will not take refuge. I demand to *know*.
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    Also, this is the internet. We're all borderline insane for simply being here.
    So I guess I have an internets? | And a trophy. | And a music cookie (whatever that is).

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Incoming judging! Since I don't know how many posts it'll take, please refrain from posting before I finish. You'll know I finished when I give my final thoughts about the competition and the total amount of pages, words and characters (without spaces).

    Bloody Hands Butcher
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    Originality
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    Let’s take this at face value, because this is a quite unusual entry. Barbarian, by definition, has this strong fluff of not depending on spellcasting, and usually relying on brute strength. Hexblade, on the other hand, is the opposite; relies on curses and spellcasting to debuff the enemy and equal combat grounds. Suel Arcanamach is distant from both, as it’s a magician that uses its spells to slay other, more powerful spellcasters, but it’s steeped in a very strong tradition.

    I consider these components separately because the backstory could have explained the reasons for each transition. I can see this as a problem that fits entirely towards Power and Elegance (there are reasons why it fits Power, but doesn’t fit Elegance), but as I said; I’ll take it on face value. It is, as I mentioned, a very unusual choice, because the expectations are that full spellcasters (and particularly Warlocks, as the fluff is strongly aimed towards them) enter the class, not Arcanamachs. I see the thematic link between Hexblade and AotS, but you get so little from Hexblade that it doesn’t support the idea of taking the class (something I’ll consider in Use of Secret Ingredient, or perhaps Elegance). The real kicker here is the introduction of Barbarian, which is by all means the class that provides the double-take: you don’t expect a class that, by fluff, has some resentment against magic, to embrace said dark magics and make a pact with the creatures it least favors (I’d have expected a pact with the Unseelie), so it really plays with the idea of why a Barbarian would travel the dark path to become the Butcher. Here is where the backstory would have truly made the decision shine: how the transition from Barbarian to Acolyte was done should have been more than just toyed at.

    Which leads to the backstory. What little bits it has make the character mysterious, enigmatic…but doesn’t explain the build at all. There is a suggestion which I believe is the core of the backstory, and it’s how the Butcher got its hands on the weapon of a Mage-Knight. It toys with the idea that the Butcher is the Mage-Knight…however, upon close examination of the build chassis, it leads me to think that it makes no sense to follow that clue. The Butcher is someone who killed the Mage-Knight and took his weapon, because there’s way too little regarding the Mage-Knight’s story to suggest a savage background (or rather, a rough background at the edges of civilization, perhaps even INSIDE civilization but not on its higher echelons), which then embraced dark magics and the ancient Suloise art of extermination. With the Butcher effectively orphaned of an origin story, the addition of the Barbarian seems to fulfill two reasons: one, adding Pounce; second, adding shock value. It certainly adds shock value, but had it been explained the transition, it would have felt a bit more natural and thus would have truly brought shock to the build.


    Score: 3.5 (It’s mostly “wait, Barbarian!?” and then “wait, why Barbarian???” TL;DR, the use of Barbarian was quite impressive for a dip, but without the reasoning behind it, it feels more tacked on for Originality cookie points than as a means for the class. Good enough Power has something to say regarding this.)

    Power
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    Wow, it’s been hard to explain this without delving on the others, but I’ll attempt so. Just notice that my biggest beef is Elegance, and then there’s some things that go better in Use of Secret Ingredient, but that relate directly to Power.

    Here’s the deal: the first 10 levels of the build are great, the last 10 builds scream “why!?” The first two levels, as a Barbarian, deliver enough HP and arm power to survive those crucial levels. The 4 levels of Hexblade begin to stir the theme of a strong man that weakens his opponents (let’s face it; a bully by any other name), what with the Curse + Dark Companion combo working well (Curse has a max DC of 17 ranging just from base DC and stat increases, so that means one [un]lucky individual per day will have the misfortune of suffering from the worst debuff around), and Arcane Resistance/ Mettle providing nice defenses. Arcane Resistance flows real well into your next bit, which is Suel Arcanamach, where you get self-buffs and another set of debuffs for D&D’s archetypal nerd: the full spellcasters. By 10th level, the build works great, what with having Dispelling Strike (only one, of course) striking right where it matters, and having enough attacks and power to strike where it matters.

    Then you enter Acolyte of the Skin. Here’s where I say “why!?”, and the reason why this would go better in Use of Secret Ingredient. Power-wise, I see two HUGE delays here; first, Arcane Strike is delayed to 12th level in order to get Shock Trooper, and then you get Imperious Command at 18th level, right where…well, most of the people with immunity to fear are located. Note that I said “delay”? Arcane Strike at 12th level and Imperious Command at 18th would have really, really, REALLY made a difference. Shock Trooper is used, of course, for the Heedless Charge maneuver, so that you could use your AC in order to keep your attack bonus high enough for the attack to hit; however, between Arcane Strike and your Dark Companion debuff, you could have reached a high enough attack bonus to make at least the first hit matter: with the Arcane Strike extra damage, by 12th level it would have really meant a solid hit that can essentially drop any enemy in one shot. This is crucial, as one of your spells is Wraithstrike: hitting as a touch attack makes dropping your AC less meaningful, and only necessary at higher levels, which means you could easily maximize your damage earlier on (though you’d have gone nova even faster). Imperious Command comes on-line way too late as well, particularly because you have to give space to Improved Bull Rush (which you barely use, only as a pre-req for Shock Trooper), particularly as Never Outnumbered comes quite early, where the trick could have been useful.

    Now, Arcane Strike has the requisite of casting 3rd level spells. Acolyte of the Skin forcefully delayed that point, which means you have to wait until 15th level to get Arcane Strike, which means that until then you’re more than forced to rely on Shock Trooper, but without the extra damage to really justify betting all your defenses on your charge. IMO, the move was unnecessary and detrimental to your build. Likewise, on your effort to make Shock Trooper come online earlier on, you made the best chance you had for reliable lock-down appear very, very late in game. Given that you maxed Intimidate (and had a great Charisma to make it unstoppable), it’s almost unforgivable that a reliable tactic comes so late. Here’s more of an Elegance hit than a Power hit, but it hits Power because the delay makes your build weaker.

    Just so you don’t mention it later: I noticed you have Draconic Polymorph. That’s a fantastic spell. Really fantastic. It would have been more fantastic if you had a second use of it by 16th level, right? So, because of the lack of Charisma by that level, you’re forced to wait until 20th level for it. It’s another example of the delay problem by which I’m penalizing you.


    Score: 2.5 (the first 10 levels are great. The last 10 levels make me cringe. But it’s the decision of delaying a great boost to damage and a reliable lock-down for entry into AotS and Shock Trooper that really make me hit Power).

    Elegance
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    Finally, the crux of the build. This build has some serious Elegance penalties. Allow me to explain.

    First, I don’t recall Suel Arcanamach’s entry requirements perfectly, but one thing I DO recall is its need for Ancient Suloise. The fluff for the Arcanamach suggests that Ancient Suloise is a dead language, so you need Speak Language to access it. There are two ways to settle this, and you didn’t do anything for them. One is having learned it as a 1st level character, which is dubious at best; however, you have no bonus languages, because your Int is 10 (and remains at 10). That means you can’t learn Ancient Suloise at 1st level; it hits harder with your barbarian upbringing, as you would have needed to explain why your barbaric tribe had access to Ancient Suloise without depending on literacy (when Suel was a powerful spellcaster empire). The other is to spend levels in Speak Language (Ancient Suloise), which would have been the main way to tackle this problem. And…after a cursory revision at 6th level, the verdict calls for…no points in Speak Language. There’s no background explanation indicating how the character knew ancient Suloise without bonus languages or Speak Language, so that means you shouldn’t be able to enter the Suel Arcanamach class.

    However…let’s set that aside. It is, after all, a fluff problem. Let’s go with the serious one. To enter Acolyte of the Skin, you need a caster level of 5th. You only have four levels of Suel Arcanamach; as far as I recall, that means that your arcane caster level when casting Suel Arcanamach spells is 4th, not 5th. The arcane caster level for Hexblade spells would be 2nd, not 5th. So, explain in simple terms how did you have access to Acolyte of the Skin without the requisite caster level? That means, good sir, that 14 levels of your whole build are illegal. That’s…reckless, and enough to deliver the dreaded 1 point (if not outright 0).

    However, as I mentioned, the crux of the entire build relies on Elegance. Let’s see how the other bits really push the score right into the negatives and furthermore. Excuses if I sound harsh.

    First, the issue mentioned in Originality. Your Barbarian follows the spiritual totem of the Lion, making it at best Neutral (but there’s no forced alignment for it, so that’s not the issue). Thematically, how does someone who draws power from a totem end up using ancient and dark magics? The background story does not explain it.

    Second, the issue mentioned in Power. The build was gearing up nicely for a sort of mage-killer that used spells to self-buff itself, perhaps dabbled in a bit of the dark in order to gain further resilience against the arcane. Then, why do I see so many delays that really hurt the build more than they help it? Imperious Command at 18th, spellcasting delayed every 2 levels (which means you get that awesome Draconic Polymorph at 20th level, Bite of the Werewolf by 14th level (but then you have to choose between increasing damage or great defenses), Arcane Strike at 15th when you could have had it at 12th (and after a second look, you COULD have gotten it at 12th without problems).

    Third, the issue that shall come in Use of Secret Ingredient. What does the Acolyte provides that becomes the foundation of the build? Why is it necessary to drape yourself in the skin of a fiend in order to advance your skills as a mage-slayer who also happens to easily slay monsters, warriors and rogues? Aside from Fiendish Glare, none of the other skills really provide anything. Spellcasting, at most, but that’s not enough.

    And finally, the issue that truly pertains to Elegance. Why does the build seem so fractured? It’s great at 10th level, it’s almost unrecognizable at 20th! It’s…not very obvious, so I give you that (the first few levels are good enough), but the last 10 levels really don’t mesh well.

    By now, that would have meant a -4 on the score, perhaps the lowest score around. However, because of contest rulings, that means I must give you a…


    Score: 1 (14 of your 20 levels are invalidated, but even then, you’d have enough problems with your build to merit a 1. That gaping fracture right at the middle of your build, cleverly hidden because of how nice the first 10 levels are, is dismaying)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    So, the question here is what can the Bloody Hands Butcher draw from draping itself in the skin of a fiend, right?

    Let’s go bit by bit, shall we? An inherent bonus to Dex, +1 to natural armor and the ability to cast Poison as an SLA once per day (oh, and darkvision)? The build has some decent Dex, but it doesn’t rely on Dexterity, so no big deal. Natural armor…well, you wear armor, so it’s not so bad, but two levels later you disregard AC for sure hits. Poison’s save DC is pretty much fixed, but since you have ways to debuff your enemy, it can hit the worst one you face (later on, the worst two guys you face) pretty easily (Dark Companion, then Hexblade’s Curse, then debuff for 1d10 points of Con damage). And the darkvision…well, that’s decent enough, but nothing surprising.

    Then you get resistance to fire, but you have ways on how to temporarily get it, and where it matters. It’s way too small to matter. Fiendish Glare…well, that’s the ability you can play with the most. Between Dark Companion, the Curse, and Intimidate, plus a high Charisma, that’s enough to stun anything in your path, and by the level you get it, it means 2-3 rounds of proper stunning, which prevents the enemy from running away frightened. It’s a pretty sick combo…but its 1/day trait really makes it an “emergency only” trick.

    By 5th level, you get bonuses to Constitution, more NA and better darkvision. To me, only the Con boost matters, because that brings a whopping 15 hit point increase, plus that extra Fortitude; the rest is chump change. Cold resistance is just as good (read: not good) as fire resistance, as you could have gained it earlier on through Resist Energy (which, exactly at THIS level, would have granted resistance 20). Glare of the Pit is…well, kinda meh, since you don’t really seem to empower it, so it feels tacked on. Summon Fiend? Well, being CE, and if you chose for a demon, that means a babau, which is more of a rogue than anything else; that means you get a partner for reliable damage, which with your Dark Companion means you get one bit short of a one-man army (all you need is a divine spellcaster!). However, the Babau is way too weak: it’s a CR 6 creature against CR 17-20 creatures, so it’s hopelessly outmatched.

    Then comes Fiendish Symbiosis. You become an outsider, you get DR 10/good, so that means you get a degree of resistance. What really matters here is that you can finally cast 5th level spells, and with it, Draconic Polymorph (since, who needs Cloudkill that late on?) With Alter Self, that means you’re planning to use it for 5 HD transformation into other Outsiders: that’s a good use out of it, so consider it a nice move. However, you get Draconic Polymorph. The ability to turn into a frickin’ dragon. That’s the sound of “why, oh by the love of Pelor, WHY!?” echoing from the distance. Basically, you waited several levels for a nice trick that gets invalidated the moment you get it.


    Score: 2 (you get some mileage out of the BAB [gish BAB!!!] and the glare. You chose a spellcasting class that provided swift progression, so you ended up pretty close to topping off that class. However, some of the choices you make early on invalidate those you make later on, hurting part of your progress: note the feats and the Alter Self into outsider trick).

    Overall: 9 (2.25)
    I think I mentioned it all on Elegance, but let’s review it again. The first few level s are quite impressive, even if not very well explained. However, those last 10 levels have so many problems, it feels like you had a breakdown and tried to finish it on time before checking it out, so it ended up dull and reeking of a fracture. Given some time, fixing those mistakes, and going a bit further into the “mage-killer” theme would have made for an awesome character; because of that, it feels like Acolyte of the Skin wasn’t meant for it. The flavor would have been nice, but the backstory really never delivered that flavor that could have saved it at least a bit more. I really would have loved to see this with more levels of Hexblade and Suel Arcanamach, perhaps with a detour into Occult Slayer so that you could maximize the full extent of the build’s power, but sadly that wasn’t the case.


    Captain Wyrmbeard the Damned
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    Originality
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    Wow, color me impressed! I would have never expected to see a Rashemi (which comes, IIRC, from a cold climate far from the sea), which took levels in Dragonfire Adept, THEN entered Acolyte of the Skin, become a pirate. Really, that came out of left field. I usually bind up fluff with the crunch of the class, but this take on a Dragonfire Adept is truly unexpected. There’s a little problem with your fluff as you have no Knowledge (arcana), the necessary topic of study for dragons; this is more evident because the goal of the character (raiding the Planes) is perfectly explained (through mastery of Knowledge: the Planes). Surprising bit about Knowledge (geography), though, because it expands your horizons (no pun intended) away from Rashemen.

    The second bit where I say “darn, that’s a great story!” is how he decides to become an Acolyte of the Skin. I know of Ashardalon for some reason, so bringing that bit of information and making it an integral part of your story makes it all the more impressive. It makes Wyrmbeard feel part of the world.

    However, aside from backstory, I want to praise you for many other original bits you took into consideration. The first were the tidbits which I’ll go further in Elegance (namely, the lava thing. Classy!). The second is how the build’s focus stands out from other builds I’ve seen (so far, that is) in other competitions: Wyrmbeard’s a sailor, first and foremost, so all the info dump on how to be a better sailor defines his home territory, giving important tools to the DM in order on how to use him on a campaign.

    Oh, and one more thing: again, Dragonfire Adept was truly unexpected. The reason I make it stand out is because Dragonfire Adept has no native support outside of the game. This is more of a Use of Secret Ingredient matter, but the fact that you remembered there’s another invocation user brings a smile.


    Score: 5 (really, does it deserve any lower? The fluff takes centerfold, as it not only explains why such an unusual build is meant to work, but also gives the DM enough tools to use the build in their campaigns. It’s a different take from classical monsters and villains; you really don’t expect that combination to work out, and yet it does, at least in terms of fluff. A Dragonfire Adept with Entangling Exhalation can lack originality, but the feel of the class still can rescue it from the heap)

    Power
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    A breath weapon of 7d6 (just three dice shy of full) is nothing to chafe at when you’re at 20th level, which would be the main concern in here. Wyrmbeard doesn’t need to engage in combat in order to be dangerous, with Entangling Exhalation and Slow Breath serving as brutal debuffs, and then topping it all off with several stages of fear.

    By itself, it’s a pretty strong build. That, however, is not why the build is quite powerful. What makes it powerful, however, is that it nudges you into entering his home terrain. In land, Wyrmbeard relies on his breath weapon and fear effects just like on sea: however, it’s on sea where he becomes more dangerous, because he’s relying on destroying the terrain you stand on to ensure victory. Make Wyrmbeard stand on water, and he can utterly crush you by having its breath weapon(s) affect you as normal, then kindly introducing you to the dangers of drowning (as broken as it may be).

    I must admit, it was surprising to see tidbits that I didn’t notice. Wyrmbeard is effectively immune to lava? I’m watching this, straight from the SRD, and I still refuse to believe it. That means, in volcanoes or under the effect of a Transmute Rock to Lava spell, Wyrmbeard ALSO has the advantage. Come cold climate, and Wyrmbeard STILL has the advantage.

    I insist on this because it shows a nice trick behind Wyrmbeard: he doesn’t set up the battle conditions that best suit him; he leads you to think that you can choose them, and then he drops off a curve when he suddenly reveals he can swim almost perfectly (you probably don’t), he can swim on lava (you definitely don’t), he can survive very cold climates (you probably can, but perhaps forgot to do so), and even on land, he has a trick to improve his damage (nice going with the oil trick, by the way: anything that makes a PHB item stand out and shine gets cookie points in my book). He can fight well on marshes, plains, volcanoes, the Frostfell…pretty much anywhere. He can tackle various terrains, and he adapts to them, using them as part of his skills. It’s definitely not wizard-level power, but it’s still an impressive use of your brain and an invitation for tactics rather than brute force.

    Now, it’s a trick that never gets old, but there’s a slight problem with it. It still feels like a one-trick pony on the few occasions where the terrain stacks against him. If on land, on a perfectly flat plain, you still rely on your breath weapon and your saves to win the battle. I won’t say that Chilling Fog isn’t excellent (it’s one of the few occasions where it feels you do something different, because you’re impairing movement not just against enemies, but against ships, a clever use of that invocation outside of battle), or the utility of Wingstorm outside of battle is excellent, but it feels like you have way too little tools to play with. Your power is certainly reasonable; it’s the versatility you lack.

    However, I’ll err on the side of how much utility you draw from each of the abilities you get. In my book Sorcerers are Tier 2 because they lack the versatility of the Wizard, but can reach the same amount of power through their utility. You have less options than a Warlock or pure DFA, but what you can do with them (specifically thinking outside the box and applying those options to ship-to-ship combat) really shows that the right person can draw a lot of utility, and thus power, out of the build. The build is deceptively strong, but it has a harsh learning curve (one made less harsh because the build is explained very well), but requires some more set-up than the norm.

    Oh yeah, I also forgot: nice way to use the Babau. It’s not a strong warrior, but it works great as a scout, and since it lasts for 1 hour, and has excellent teleportation abilities, it makes for a surprisingly decent minion. Again: it’s not that the Babau is inherently powerful, but the way it is used. It’s the utility you can draw from that ability.


    Score: 4.5 (we all know how Dragonfire Adept works. We also know that combat is not the most important thing in the game. That said, the build is surprisingly powerful because it has a great deal of utility in and out of combat, particularly on a specific form of combat where terrain is more important than raw power. The only reason this isn’t close to 5 is because of the learning curve; it’s well explained, so it doesn’t lose much, but even then it relies on familiarizing a lot with the game and understanding the reasoning behind every movement. It plays exactly as a Sorcerer does, and the Sorcerer is quite powerful when played correctly, so that influences a lot on its power).

    Elegance
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    I have little to say in here, so I expect this to be just as good, but brief. If there is a problem I have, it’s relying on DM fiat and magic items, because you’ll never know when you get them. The build has to be good on its own in order to be a good build; redundant as it seems, what matters is that the build can function on its own without depending on something to be good. There are two problems I see here, but they really don’t harm the build as much as they’d harm others.

    The first problem is its reliance on items. You need oils, you need some magic items, and you need more than anything a ship. This can be a HUGE problem if you’re not on an aquatic campaign, because it invalidates your build’s main focus (though it delivers a surprisingly good way to play a campaign; someone who’s itchy to return to home base). Why, then, this isn’t a HUGE problem at all? While it can’t certainly enter into all campaigns, when it enters a campaign that fits, it can work with little problem even with the worst ship around (or a skiff). The only problem I’d see is the dependence on a Dimensional Sextant when traveling the planes; however, it’s less “you depend on a magic item for your build to be good” and more “you depend on a magic item for the campaign to progress”. This is an example of what I mean: the use of magic items doesn’t make the build, but instead are necessary tools for the campaign, one which even the stingiest DM may consider. Perhaps not the awesome ships, but if you have a planar-able ship along (something you’ll need when facing the planes; with Wyrmbeard’s focus, there’s a huge chance that the ship he gets isn’t his…), you’ll probably need the Sextant, and maybe you’ll get enough funds to improve eventually into what you want. So that merits a minor notch, but not something noticeable.

    The second is how the build relies on the proper terrain to excel. That’s just an equal problem as relying on magic items: if you’re not on the proper terrain, a lot of your tools will be useless. For example: on land, Profession (sailor) and Swim will either be useless or have limited uses. This is the problem of a thematic focus rather than a general focus regarding builds. Once again, and as explained in Power, the impact is minimized because Wyrmbeard can work well on various terrains (not just seas), working to adapt the terrain while adapting to the terrain. The notch I’ll remove here is because of the complexity when playing Wyrmbeard in non-favorable terrains, because a great deal of Elegance is not just how well the build flows, but also how simple it is to build and play with.


    Score: 4.25 (alright, so I wasn’t really “brief”, but when I judge, this is as brief as it can get. Reliance on magic items and complexity are enemies of Elegance, but the way these problems present in your build minimize their impact. Complexity is the big offender here, however)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    Acolyte of the Skin is a bad PrC to work with, I will admit. However, there were some pleasant surprises that your explanation brought to light.

    The first, and I’ll dare say the most important, is that fire resistance implies immunity to lava. Really, in all my years of play I never saw that in play. Essentially you treat lava like water, and then you get Aquatic Adaptation to treat water like air, so you can navigate on lava like nobody’s business. This is perhaps the cleverest application of this class feature, so kudos for pointing it out.

    Another trick I noticed was how oil, a common material, aids one of the class features. Sure, the idea is that oil boosts the power of your fire breath, but what about Glare of the Pit? It’s an attack that deals up to 8d6 per ray, once per day, so anything that boosts it must be important. So, why not douse the targets in oil, so that they get burned one round later (for less damage, of course, but still interesting) from your Glare? That doesn’t mean it’s any more powerful, but it IS a clever use of a PHB item that people forget after 6th level.

    Another nice thing to point out is that Acolyte of the Skin essentially completes your natural armor progression. 2 points in natural armor doesn’t mean much, but 5 points (which scale with Barkskin or Amulets of Natural Armor) quickly scale up. The bonus to Dexterity isn’t so noticeable, but the bonus to Constitution helps the most important tactic you have (and also on your lifeforce).

    However, the big problem I have with the class is that it’s chock-full of 1/day abilities. That really makes it suck, because Fiendish Glare (one of the best abilities out there) only works once per day. Enter Travel Devotion: while at first it’s a nice doppleganger, later on it becomes a quasi-real version of you. The way the Project Image spell works is quite interesting, as it allows any spell to work off the shadowy duplicate other than yours. The way you suggest it works seems to give it extra uses of your 1/day abilities, and if that’s true, then it’s perhaps the best boost the class could have.

    …However, I don’t see that mentioned anywhere. What it mentions is that any spell you can cast with a range of touch or higher can be cast from the duplicate, and that it has phantom versions of your equipment. In no means it mentions it’s a perfect duplicate, as, say, a Simulacrum. Had it been an effect just as Simulacrum, you had the ability to duplicate all of the AotS’s abilities several times per day; by strict reading, it doesn’t. It points out how much you thought of ability duplication, but it doesn’t seem to work that way. From what I see, the supernatural abilities that can only be used once per day could be used from the shadowy duplicate (thus increasing the range of Poison to “where your eye can see and where your duplicate has line of effect to you”), but if the shadowy duplicate used them, you can’t use them.

    The final bit is the many layers of fear Wyrmbeard has. Why here and not in Power? Well, it’s because Fiendish Glare really doesn’t do much, because all your fear-stacking effects are already in play. Between Dreadful Wrath (which only requires an attack), the Frightful Presence invocation, and the Imperious Command/Never Outnumbered trick, you can reliably make them cower in fear for up to 10 minutes. Think of it: first, you use Imperious Command with Never Outnumbered. Everyone is cowering, so they can’t move. Second round, you use your breath weapon on all of them, with Entangling Exhalation: their movement is halved, but they’re now frightened. Now, make a charge against the closest enemy: with their weakened Will save (against a DC that relies on Charisma, which you have at least with a +3), that means they have good chances to be frightened. Fiendish Glare has really two main purposes; one, ensuring important enemies are cowering in fear after two attempts, or combined with Scourge of the Seas for maximum distance cowering. It’s one of the reasons Wyrmbeard’s build is so powerful, but makes Fiendish Glare less important. Since you’re pre-shaking them, that means a lower Will save, so better chances to make them stunned. What’s more important: since your fear effect relies on dealing damage, that means you have higher chances to make that stun effect last for a long time, in case the enemies are not cowering in fear. The feeling that Fiendish Glare isn’t really necessary for your lockdown comes into mind, but after some analysis, you can realize it plays a key part at the moment you use it. It’s a shame you can’t boost it any further, or else the stun would be even more dangerous than the cower (and less people are immune to stun than to fear).


    Score: 4 (the clever uses of fire resistance, the boosts to important abilities, the feel that Dragonfire Adept wasn’t weakened with this build…all of these matter. However, what worries me is that Trickery Devotion, your key to duplicate some of the 1/day abilities of the class, really doesn’t work as intended. This is a huge let-down, because it’s false advertising. That, plus the feel that Fiendish Glare isn’t really needed when you have a proper fear-based lockdown build, dent the score quite a bit. Still, it doesn’t feel like Acolyte of the Skin was tacked on just for the competition; quite the contrary; the fact that it works for a Dragonfire Adept means great news!)

    Overall: 17.75 (4.4375)
    Striking the balance between entertainment and utility on a build can sometimes be hard to do, especially when only a few builds really shine through the game. The Cap’n feels right at home as a villain, with clever and inviting uses of rules from the Dungeons & Dragons supplements to throw a curve to the mighty wizard and his group of cohorts (read: the other PCs that aren’t Tier 1). I’m impressed by how the fluff stands out on its own, and evokes toward the DM in every player, the guy who wishes to see his adventures come to life. It’s a complex build to play, but as a villain, it really steals the show. However, it’s not bad as a player either, with reliable moves and clever ways to surpass obstacles and force enemies to face him on unfavorable terrains, and drawing the most of its small toolbox. It relies on a few tricks, but the mileage you draw from them makes the build exceptional. Well done, great job!


    Ash’okk Lar
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    Originality
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    Hard to say on this one. On one hand, you have a pair of classes that aren’t what you’d expect for an Acolyte of the Skin; you have a Fighter, and then you have a Paladin. Of Slaughter, of course. While I can debate for years the offensiveness of the word “Paladin” mixed with the alignment “Chaotic Evil”, this isn’t the forum (pun, haw!) to speak of it. Skarn is an unusual choice, particularly for what it offers: spine natural attacks, which are pretty awesome…if you know how to use them.

    The first thing that comes to mind is that you’ve entered the class without a single level in an arcane spellcasting class, taking advantage of the class’ open way of spellcasting advancement. However, the advancement from the Paladin (of Slaughter) class is pretty limited, so the idea isn’t to advance your spellcasting. The idea is to take it as a path towards Thrall of Juiblex, which is your main goal.

    There are some problems that I’ve found, though, which I find that have some merit. A Chaotic Skarn is definitely different, but it’s only used as a stepping stone, not as something integral to the build. The shock factor is there, but it’s not entirely enough to matter: dig a bit deeper and you might get a race that has exactly what you need (in terms of mechanics) and fit the build a bit better. I’d love to mention it’s a minor thing, but just by looking at the way you mention the Skarn…it’s only vaguely mentioned. What’s with the “perfection of form” all Skarns seek? Mentioning that the Skarn was raised by humans probably addresses that, but there’s no particular reason why it feels the Skarn is necessary there, aside from a mechanical perspective which isn’t entirely clear? High Str, but no loss of Wis or Cha, and without LA? I could mention a few other choices, and given how story-wise it’s explained, it wouldn’t make a difference. Here’s where flavor should be king, and…it’s kinda bland.

    The other thing that comes to mind is: how does Acolyte of the Skin mingles with this, anyways? How does a Paladin of Juiblex (or rather, an Anti-Paladin of Juiblex, but who am I to speak of trivial matters such as semantics?) ends up being an Acolyte of the Skin? Other builds have made their intention of getting into the class an important matter, making their introduction into the class an essential part of their story; you, on the other hand, mention it as a perk for your main deal, which is becoming a Thrall of Juiblex. It feels like Acolyte of the Skin was added just because it was necessary for the campaign (or in this case, the competition) but it wasn’t part of your build whatsoever. This is troubling, because it suggests a double meaning: in the story, the character aims to become a servant of Juiblex, but build-wise, the character doesn’t really manage to complete it. It feels like Acolyte of the Skin is stealing levels that should have gone for Thrall of Juiblex. What’s more important, it doesn’t seem to follow the focus of making a character focused on Juiblex.

    Now, why do I insist on these trifles? Any story, even one that’s been told one too many times, can be made original by adding new elements, but having those elements become important to the story. That’s the bit I felt missing with Ash’okk: it feels like disparate elements were forcefully blended in the name of making something new and unseen. This may seem like a thing for Elegance (and certainly, it is), but that line of thought isn’t original; it’s… I wish I could say the right word for here, but it’s pretty close to “completely missing the point”. The theme is there, but it really makes no effort to follow it, hoping that all elements are rare and disparate enough to be considered one-of-a-kind. Sure, it is one-of-a-kind…but not in the way you’d expect.

    Score: 3.25 (it’s a bunch of things that doesn’t seem to follow the theme you’ve suggested. Separately, each component is unusual enough to merit appreciation; the problem is how everything meshes together, because it makes some elements clash with others, thus giving the impression that the element could be changed into something even more distinct and original than offered. This extends to the race: a Skarn is unusual, and one that aims for Chaos instead of the racial paradigm of Law is twice as unusual, but it feels as irrelevant to the story, since it feels like any other race would have fit in, perhaps one that’s twice as strange. In the end, the story doesn’t seem to fit the build’s theme, making all of the build’s choices mutable enough to suggest different, and potentially better/more original choices.)

    Power
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    The best way to define it is “a late bloomer with a really small bloom”. How did I end up with that definition?

    Well, the first thing I notice is that it’s eerily similar to another build (the Butcher, namely). Its two main tricks rely on Imperious Command/Never Outnumbered fear lockdown and a steady source of damage through Power Attack/Shock Trooper. The latter comes pretty early, right as it starts to feel the brunt of low BAB because of AotS’s poor BAB progression. Because you lack ways to increase your attack bonus any further, and because you don’t care too much for AC (or so I believe), Shock Trooper is a bit more useful for you than for the Butcher. Imperious Command, on the other hand…comes somewhat late, and lacking Never Outnumbered altogether. That makes it weaker, particularly since you could have taken it right at 6th level, given that you have access to Spellcraft from VERY early on. Willing Deformity adds only a mild boost to Intimidate (good early on, but you already have a steady Intimidate bonus), so it’s not the best feat around. Those are your two main tricks, because the spellcasting is negligible (only about 3 spells, of which one is essentially flavor).

    As you get into AotS, this point becomes quite evident. The abilities from AotS barely offer a synergy with your main attack methods (barring Fiendish Glare + Imperious Command, but without Never Outnumbered you never manage to mass stun everybody), so it’s hard to see what else you can do using AotS as a support.

    Only later, in between the Fiendish Symbiosis and the Alter Self spell-like ability from Thrall of Juiblex, you see a pretty strong boost, but it falls really short. You have Alter Self as if cast by a 4th level caster, which means you’re limited to 4 HD outsiders (essentially mephits, imps, quasits, lemures, nupperibos, dretches…really low HD outsiders) and humanoids, which grants a reasonable amount of flexibility. Aside from that, you still rely on a good hit and fear-locking, the former which is decent but lacks pounce, and the latter which lacks proper area of effect. What’s frustrating is that, despite getting a low score in others, there’s another build that pulls it better, because it considered the other options. Your Intimidate is higher, but it matters only a little if it affects only one creature and doesn’t have another way to boost it up. Frightful Presence comes WAY too late, when most creatures start having immunity to fear by default.

    One nice trick is the fact that you get two summons, not one: the ooze and the babau. Both are hilariously weak, but at least you get 4 rounds worth of an ooze, which can flank nicely with you and your babau…well, at least with you, because the babau will be dismissed swifter than you can say “sneak attack!”

    There’s one thing that hurts me the most: where is the synergy with your spines!? Pounce would have allowed you to get one or two attacks worth the spines, even if they wouldn’t get the bonus from Power Attack. That could have made the difference.

    Score: 2 (you’re a man of two tricks: hit hard, and bully people. Someone else did it better. The nudge is because you end up with Alter Self at will, which is pretty decent…but someone else thought of it better, even with limited resources. Alter Self is ridiculously good as an at-will ability, tho: a few more levels and Warshaper, and you got yourself a better character. Oozes to complement you in battle are nice, however.)

    Elegance
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    Yeah, so you expect to clearly land in an Otyugh Hole because Juiblex himself sent you to? Erm, no. Even if it’s mostly a suggestion, it’s clearly something you considered as part of your main build, so it’s decking time.

    I can see why Willing Deformity and Thrall to Demon are so important to get before 16th level, and it feels natural that you delay your Alter Self acquisition until AFTER you become an evil outsider, AND getting a viable combat tactic before anything else. However, there are some questionable moves out there. Paladin of Slaughter is…perhaps the biggest one. Aside from the Dark Blessing ability and PERHAPS the Debilitating Aura, I see little to justify getting it: the spells, maybe, but a different dip would have worked better. Some judges penalize for very obvious or excessive dipping, but I don’t mind unless it feels unnatural, and here’s one example.

    The build feels fractured for some reason: chaotic I’d say, because it seems to tumble between reasons. It’s obviously meant to be a fighter that becomes an outsider to gain access to the powers of other outsiders, so I’ll consider that application to be, if flavor-inclined, a nice move (and with Alter Self, it becomes a powerful move as well). Yet, the way it becomes a warrior is what feels chaotic: does Ash’okk seeks force of arm, or demonic strength? It doesn’t feel organic, in the sense that you give it a glimpse and notice “darn, everything fits just as it should: the first levels establish the theme and give a lead to why the secret ingredient is important, and every addition is just a garnish to the secret ingredient”. In here, the secret ingredient seems tacked (an issue for Use of Secret Ingredient) as an end to a means, in this case the Alter Self trick. Those 10 levels could have been used, perhaps, on another class that had “turn into Outsider” as a capstone, which while there are few, DO exist and perhaps could fit the theme better. The backstory doesn’t help in anything to support that theme. It’s chaotic because there IS a theme, but it doesn’t feel like it fits, even if it’s pretty obvious it’s that theme, because of the methodology. I can say that there are a few levels that make no sense there, and could have been shifted to something a bit more worthwhile.

    What comes to mind are polka dots: there are MANY abilities spread out right there, each of them useful, but only a few seem to follow a pattern or show some synergy. The rest exist on their own, spread out, much like polka dots. That’s why it feels so chaotic: it doesn’t have that build aesthetic which leads to trick-building, instead feeling like you have to trudge through trash to get the nifty stuff).

    Score: 2 (the build doesn’t feel elegant, even if the theme is right there. It hides on plain sight, muddled by bad moves in terms of progression. It feels like you’re nitpicking the tasty nibbles and left a mess in the plate, which doesn’t feel so good. There are some things that feel like they connect, though.)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    I mentioned it on Elegance: most of the build feels like you just went for the tasty nibbles. There are some thematical links there, but none that are truly surprising.

    The first “thematical link” is AotS’s Poison SLA and Thrall of Juiblex’s Contagion SLA. You have a filthy, venomous touch that can take you from healthy to rotting in a heartbeat. It’s a shame the save DC feels so low, or otherwise you’d have a competitor in the midst. That it also depends on two different scores (Wisdom for Poison, Constitution for Contagion) really blows, even if the increase to Constitution boosts Contagion by 1 point.

    The other I mentioned already, and it’s the ooze and the babau combination. Early on, it could be pretty amazing, because the babau can be a dangerous little sneak, and it gets better with a strong flanking partner and an ooze that turns any armor into nothing, weapons into acrid fumes… You have more access to the ooze than to the babau, which reveals a glaring problem with that ability.

    The third is Alter Self and Fiendish Symbiosis. It’s your capstone, and it’s well used (pretty well used). Alter Self at will adds a lot of utility, such as defensive capabilities, fight and natural attacks to exploit. That seems to be the second half of your build, and the one that feels a bit more powerful.

    The fourth is Fiendish Glare + anything that causes fear. You have Imperious Command (and a BIG, but not LARGE or HUGE Intimidate bonus) and later on Frightful Presence for when you charge. It’s a 1/day trick, so it’s not entirely a staple to lock people in fear (it lasts a long time, however).

    That said, as I mentioned, you basically took the tasty nibbles and ignored the rest. Getting the fiery gaze, the resistances, the bonus to Dexterity…they don’t feel as meaningful to your build (and much less the damage reduction). Likewise, while you have a good synergy with Contagion, it doesn’t feel like you’re going to constantly use your Poison SLA, so it feels wasted. You were here for Fiendish Glare and Fiendish Symbiosis, and that’s very obvious.


    Score: 2 (There’s an effort to mix parts of Acolyte of the Skin with Thrall of Juiblex, but it doesn’t feel like you can exploit every ability, or at least make meaningful sense out of the existing ones. Had you another PrC that delivered the ability to turn into an outsider but better abilities, you’d have chosen it? I can’t answer for you, but the build screams YES!)

    Overall: 9.25 (2.3125)
    It’s a shame that the two builds that aim for using Acolyte of the Skin while aiming for melee warriors really don’t feel so nice. This is the worst of the pair, because it feels like a patchwork of things trying to garnish a known trick: to use Alter Self to become other kinds of outsiders. The Skarn race aims for perfection; you, on the other hand, willingly chose to stray far from it.
    Last edited by T.G. Oskar; 2012-09-07 at 11:33 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #186
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    The Sacred Demon
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    Originality
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    I will chuckle now. Ready?

    GWAHAHAHAHAAH!!! Aasimar!? That came out of nowhere! There are some impressive choices, but going straight for the “goody two-shoes race” and corrupting it… Granted, it’s not something entirely original, but what is it? It depends on how you play with it, which leads to part two…

    The Malconvoker. This is another staple of stories: don’t play with fire, or you’ll burn off! And, of course, you got burnt: you took a skin from a fiend and tore it off, just to wield it and draw power from it. And you can summon way lot more fiends from where that came from.

    Where it hurts a bit is where it leads. Evidently, what you expect would be that the goody two-shoes played a lot with demonic fire and it got burnt, so he got a skin graft from a fiend. That load of fiendish influence made him a dour Knight Templar, doing questionable actions but still believing he’s doing them for good. That was the natural choice. Instead…the guy got possessed. Somewhat. It’s more “symbiosis towards multiple personalities” than actual possession, but it goes there.

    But you know what? That goes into Elegance. The backstory, told as a tale of precaution (as many fairy tales, actually), suggests the conflict between both sides, and the obvious consequences of playing with fire and getting a bad quality graft. He got duped, but he managed to retain a good deal of his cool to make a decent comeback, but that wasn’t enough.

    Then, for purposes of the story, they act like pals. Yet another curve right there.

    Score: 5 (this is a refreshing new twist to a combination of staple stories, going with the race you’d least expect to enter there and then getting into the class that has a serious reason to get into the secret ingredient. The twist of possession rather than Knight Templar made it interesting, because it’s a different take on the purpose of the class. It makes you forget that one of the expected entry points is Sorcerer, because it really doesn’t feel like an evil Sorcerer at all.)

    Power
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    There’s little to say here: you’re a Sorcerer, and one specialized in one of the strongest schools of magic around. That leads to a lot of potential power. How is this applied, then?

    Binding and summoning creatures to your bidding, of course: the best application of Conjuration around. Sure, you might go Mailman, or perhaps jaunt and frolic freely, but you went straight for the hot stuff: the bindings. With Malconvoker giving you access to an extensive pool of beings with which to deal with, not to mention the bonuses to safely (maybe) deal with them, gives you a staggering set of options to play with beyond your spell list, which is obviously expanded through the Celestial Bloodline feat).

    Acolyte of the Skin, on the other hand, provides a good set of defenses, oddly enough. Between the bonuses to natural armor (coupled with Mage Armor and Mirror Image, perhaps), the bonus to Dexterity (better AC and reflexes, not to mention better initiative which with to win battles alongside Nerveskitter), the bonus to Constitution (more hit points!) and the damage reduction (not to mention [re]claiming Outsider, meaning you just cheated the right way with LA), you got a wide set of defenses running around while your bound fiends mop up the opposition.

    The one thing where I must mope up at you is as follows: why no list of known spells? That makes you a wild card: while you have the chance of potentially choosing the best spells (and you’ll have stuff like Magic Circle against Evil and all three Planar Binding spells essentially at-will alongside all Summon Monster spells), the rest is an enigma. That can make or break the Sorcerer’s power.


    Score: 4.5 (while a Tier 2 class, the Sorcerer can end up being quite powerful. Specializing in Conjuration makes it doubly so, a place where the Malconvoker shines. Acolyte of the Skin is there for the defenses, which are very important for a summoner character. But, any bad choice in your list of known spells ruins you, so I must give you a stern reprieve for that)

    Elegance
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    It’s amazing just how natural the build feels. It’s quite simple: start as Sorcerer, rack up your celestial bloodline, get into Malconvoker because you want to give the good fight using the enemy’s weapons, and then into Acolyte of the Skin because the fiend you just summoned bluffed you real badly.

    As I mentioned before, I have a qualm with how the backstory flows, because it seems that you took a detour for Originality by sacrificing your Elegance. A proper backstory helps explain the reasons of your options, which is important to justify WHY you’re choosing X class and not Y class or more levels of earlier classes. How the fiend duped the young mage into binding their essences was a great move, but the end result leaves something to be desired.

    However, where I want to go is on the Adaptation section. It’s quite long, full of options, but one thing struck me hard: it doesn’t matter how the build progresses, so as long as you end up choosing the right amount of levels, you’re set. You can take some levels earlier than presented, or later than presented, and it won’t affect the build. That’s a pretty nice observation, particularly if you want better defenses or better spellcasting and summoning. That is the hallmark of an elegant build, when you don’t feel forced to follow that one path or else suffer the consequences.

    One thing I must say, though, is Empower Spell-Like Ability. Yes, you can access it: no, you can’t use it. That is because Poison is a 4th level spell, and the caster level for the SLA is fixed, so it’s impossible for you to empower said SLA.


    Score: 4.5 (Very nice flow, feels complete early on and from there you can choose how you wish to play the build. Everything is explained very nicely, but I still have some qualms as to the end result of the bond).

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    Amazing as how the build flows into the class, it means nothing if the secret ingredient only imparts flavor. The first thing I will mention is that entering Acolyte of the Skin feels very natural given the backstory, as the magician wishes to lay off the “taint” of his celestial bloodline to better dupe the fiends, not knowing he was duped back.

    That said: there are some very nice ways to support some of the class options. Empower Spell-Like Ability is a stupendous move: the only problem is that it doesn’t specify exactly WHERE it must be used, so I can imagine it’ll be used on the ability that you expect to use the most (Poison, obviously), which cannot happen. While you’re technically free to access the feat, you can’t really use it because of how both feats work. This could have made Poison VERY powerful (10 +0…5 points of Constitution damage, with the same exact result one minute later? Fail your Fortitude save and prepare for a minute-long death); instead, it doesn’t. The spirit of the choice, however…it merits some points.

    The second is that, despite being a weak ability, your specialization with summoning indirectly improved the fiend you summoned. As with everybody, it’s a Babau, but this one will end up being slightly more resilient and dangerous, particularly since you can pair it with a more powerful fiend for a brutal double-take.

    Extending Fiendish Glare is also a superb option. While it’s a 1/day ability, the fact that you can turn anyone within range shaken during 20 minutes and potentially stun someone for 2 minutes (or at least 2 rounds) essentially doubles the power of this ability.

    Fiendish Symbiosis, on the other hand, is a nasty way to claim Outsider heritage. Most likely you’ll have Polymorph, but this makes Alter Self pretty viable when the Polymorph spell slots run out. Between Black Tentacles and Summon Monster IV, you can be pretty sure you might not have enough Polymorph slots.

    There’s a few things that I don’t see used (the resistances), but trying to optimize those are impossible. You end up getting resistances to just about everything (fire, cold, electricity and acid), so you’re maximizing your Outsider heritage that way. The other is the Glare of the Pit ability, considering you could have at least attempted Empower Supernatural Ability for it (that way you dealt 8d6 x 1.5 damage against two enemies) or somehow impose a vulnerability to fire in order to make it worthwhile. I feel that you could have boosted it, while providing the meta-SLA feats as optionals if Poison’s CL could increase.


    Score: 5 (despite the blunder with the feats, I cannot really punish you for thinking of EVERYTHING in this PrC. Whether optimizing your outsider heritage or enhancing your existing abilities, the class really feels like it fits. This is true particularly on the fluff, a crucial part of the build, as even the entry method was thought of).

    Overall: 19 (4.75)
    Holy mother of all that’s good and sacred, you are SO CLOSE to a perfect score, it hurts! Despite the blunder with the feats (which hurt, but not as much as you thought) and the trouble with the spell list and the fluff’s direction, this build really works at all levels. It is full of flavor, but packs a more than serious punch by taking one of the most powerful options in D&D and running forward with it. Sure: taking more levels in Malconvoker would have ended up with a more powerful summoner, but given how everything fits, you can’t say Acolyte of the Skin was tacked on. Quite the contrary: it’s a great plate made better by adding the secret ingredient. Congrats!


    Eshpaunsuud Zhirvaush
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    Originality
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    Most people would chide you for choosing Illumian, as it’s one of the most exploitable races around. You’re fortunate I’m not one of them.

    In fact, there’s very little for me to chide upon. This build really draws upon the idea of the Acolyte of the Skin’s theme, or at least the theme of the ritual used to become one: essentially, to become one with the fiendish essence impregnated in the skin. There’s a HUGE problem with the half-fey template tacked on, which is more of an Elegance penalty than anything else, but it’s a way to get a good template blend in nicely with the fluff you seek: this is important, because if you were to find another way, you could easily get a load of power through roleplaying (the problem lies in crossing the boundary between the rules and DM fiat).

    The connection between the theme’s fluff and the end goal of Esh is also wonderful. This is really a deadly villain, nothing short of a genocidal nihilist hell-bent on the destruction of the Multiverse. There’s a theme within the character of transcendence, corruption and absolute power deftly handled by the name itself: Expunged Avarice. It has some calls to a favorite villain of mine (Kefka, of course), but that’s no breach of originality in my book: the goals and the methodology, as well as what would happen if he were to turn into a true Elder Evil, are usually more than enough to make a build feel unique and original.

    Class-wise, the entry method was by all means bizarre. Spellthief’s spellcasting is by no means powerful, but it has a solid amount of spell choices, not to mention a spell list that increases essentially with every book they throw. Swordsage is a typical entry class for many builds, and evidently it’s used as an entry class; however, it is used to enter a class that’s not known for combat, that doesn’t use Wisdom as a main score, and that progresses none of the Swordsage’s combat abilities. They’re there to boost Spellthief. Four more levels in Spellthief would have made a world of difference, so you’re using a repeat offender of this contest for what could have been a pretty decent Spellthief entry. Clearly this is an issue best dealt somewhere else, but it affects because you’re not justifying enough the need for Spellthief aside from purely power reasons.

    Score: 4.5 (the only thing that doesn’t make this stand higher is the addition of Swordsage, if only because it has no connection to the fluff. Your claim to Originality hinges within Acolyte of the Skin, Illumian [another repeat offender], Half-Fey and Pandorym, so Swordsage feels odd here. I’d like for you to pay attention on how a repeat offender can and cannot be original, because the fluff and how it binds with your choices make a huge difference.)

    Power
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    For a class with so-so options and an entry method that’s not so powerful spell-wise, it’s quite surprising. As I mentioned, Swordsage was not chosen because it fit the fluff, but because it provided a good leap of power. However, there are three choices that really crank up the power of this build.

    The first, obviously, was half-fey. For 2 LA, you get the ability to fly, immunity to enchantments, bonus to various scores (mainly your main attack score and your main spellcasting score), and SLAs. The SLAs are definitely nice, because you get a more than fair share of SLAs. Some might be weak, but some are pretty powerful (Glitterdust, Charm Person AT WILL, Protection from Law giving you temporary immunity to any mental effect, Mass Invisibility), and they advance based on your Hit Dice, so that means that, despite the LA, you get pretty strong spellcasting ability. The fact that it was used to enter the class was…well, classy. That’s Elegance, however.

    The second was Godsblood Spelltheft and the Spell domain. Clearly you chose Mystra judging from the domain/deity relationship; otherwise, I don’t see how that would work. While Mage Armor isn’t really that powerful (a chain shirt + your Wis score adds a lot more), stuff like Break Enchantment and ANYSPELL really make your day. It’s a shame you couldn’t get a larger share of Spellthief levels, because otherwise you’d have gotten your hands on Limited Wish, which would have been insanely powerful. This hurts a lot, because between Anyspell and Limited Wish, you’d have gained nearly unparalleled breadth of versatility from 1st to 6th level, even if it took XP from you (but you’ve shown to disregard that if it helps you). It really hurts, given that Anyspell’s description is pretty questionable (again, an issue with Elegance), given that you could have justified getting Limited Wish for less trouble. In any case, Godsblood Spelltheft is not a bad choice (you can essentially get Break Enchantment any time you sucker-punch a mage).

    The third, of course, is the use of Swordsage as a booster to many things. You have a pretty decent Wisdom score for various reasons (namely, to have a decent save DC for Anyspell), but you maximize it so that it applies to your AC, which gets a nice boost with light armor. Because of Shadow Hand, you make Dexterity your main attack score when striking with the right weapons, which is important if you want to steal spells. Because you depend on sneak attack dice for damage and you get so little, it’s obvious that Assassin’s Stance was on your list. Distracting Ember grants a temporary flanking buddy so that you can steal spells at your leisure, while Flashing Sun essentially makes you flurry, which means one more chance to steal spells or deal SA damage. Burning/Searing Blade and Burning Brand make DR a thing of the past and give you superb damage potential, at least for 1 round and as long as the enemy isn’t immune to fire, with enough range to be considered safe. No matter where, you can see that the Swordsage added a lot of punch.

    I see yet another build that uses Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered (I wonder if I should strip some points in Originality for it…), but this one stacks fear in a very different way. Abominable Form is a surprising way to bully weaker people, and the feat makes Intimidate stronger to boot. Since it’s based off the amount of deformity feats you have, you’ll want to have as many as possible, which means you need a good one. Tall makes you get reach while remaining Medium, which means yet another increase if you become Large (Y U NO GET ENLARJ PURSON!?), so you can strike people from 20 feet with a sick Deformity (tall) + Enlarge Person + Burning Brand combo. That’s a very creative way to deal with sneak attack, though it works best somewhere else.

    Oh, and Mortalbane. I don’t think it works like you think it does, but if it does…that’s a sick amount of Constitution damage! Or, at least, hit point damage + Con damage. That’s…vile


    Score: 4 (between half-fey, Godsblood Spelltheft and Swordsage you have a pretty strong character. What it hurts is that a little bit of thought could have led to accessing a very powerful spell which you could manifest just from striking spellcasters, since you have enough attack power and resources to strike them. That, plus Anyspell might not work as you think, so the flaw becomes a bit more noticeable. Fear-locking is the least of your worries).

    Elegance
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    The build is great, don’t get me wrong. But it has quite a share of problems, actually.

    The first is the lingering feeling that some abilities don’t work as advertised. This is bad, because a specific reading in one of them may dent the potential of the build almost severely. That is, of course, Anyspell: by strict reading, the new spell occupies your domain spell slot, which you don’t have. This is really, really, REALLY bad. Like, tons of bad. That means you CAN steal Anyspell, but it will never work fully because it prepares the new arcane spell into a non-existent domain spell slot, particularly since you DON’T prepare spells (you keep them in your mind). Because of this, the Spell domain becomes less palatable, since you can’t use Rary’s Mnemonic Enhancer for jack.

    The second is the “Swordsage comes out of the blue with no explanation” thing. As I mentioned in Originality, the fluff of the build matters because it makes each choice hold some meaning. Illumian was the first of your experiments meant to attain greater power; half-fey was the second of your experiments, whereas Acolyte of the Skin was the third. It was reasonable to have each choice apply. Swordsage, on the other hand, was not explained at all. There’s no evident reason to explain the motive, the reason for why Swordsage HAS to be in the build other than a mechanical dunk. Sure, 4 levels might not seem much, but there’s no explanation WHY it has to be there. How did Esh became a Swordsage in the first place? Why did it dropped the study of the Sublime Way in order to learn the power to steal spells?

    A third is the amount of Spellthief levels. One more level would have allowed for Absorb Spell, which is really nice to get if it works. Master Spellthief could have helped nicely, because the more powerful your spells get, the better they work: right now, you’re standing in a CL of 11th (perhaps 13th), which isn’t bad but isn’t awesome either. Even Practiced Spellcaster would have sufficed…

    My biggest qualm, though, is how you become a half-fey. One thing is fluff; the fluff is awesome, taking a gloura’s wings and grafting them so that you gain fey powers; the other is justifying them by crunch. Rules-wise, half-fey is an inherited template; that means, you HAVE to be born a half-fey. There IS a way to add a template, but it’s in Savage Species, which is neither a good book in terms of Elegance (but not off-limits) nor mentioned in your sources. Because of that, you CAN’T be a Half-Fey, which is yet another bad hit to Power. This once again extends to Illumian, though at least fluff supports you in here. This is why it hurts, because you could have explained everything by the rules (given that you know of various transformation rituals) but you neglected to explain half-fey through the rules.

    I would have sassed you for the feats, but it shows a clever trick: by indicating exactly HOW you know about Pandorym and becoming a servant of his, you get bonus feats. That’s borderline cheesy (even more if Dark Chaos Shuffle is in play), but I’ll incline towards accepting it because it’s an integral part of your build. I feel other judges won’t tolerate that abuse, but given that you’re doing two things right (assuming the rules are in play and thus integrating it to your build, and making sure you meet the right requirements to study and find info about Pandorym, thus offering allegiance and gaining the feats), I don’t feel I have to deck you for this. It’s more of a “clever trick” than “cheating”, even if it feels and tastes like cheat.

    Oh, there’s another thing. You immediately assume LA buy-off is allowed. Sure, it essentially IS allowed; whether your DM allows it is another matter entirely. It’s much like with the half-fey issue: you explained that the list of items is not important but rather suggestions, but you didn’t build anything for LA buy-off, aside from “Unearthed Arcana says so”.


    Score: 2 (some of the things that grant you Power are negated by Elegance. Half-fey cannot be accessed that way except through DM allowing it, Swordsage comes out of the blue and without a proper reason to exist, and you assume LA buy-off will happen in the book. The other assumptions, such as the minor Errata, are reasonable enough, but the LA buy-off isn’t always gonna be on the books. Those two failures in Elegance hurt your power immensely.)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    Being an unusual entry method (using Spellthief + Swordsage) on a class that’s mostly meant to be a spellcasting-focused class, I’ll have to consider each point carefully, but from what I can see, the reason you entered is more fluff-wise than anything. Let’s see if I’m wrong on that one.

    First, the actual process. The end result is to become an outsider, and by rule of template stacking and progression, you pass from Humanoid to Fey to Outsider, with the latter having more prominence than the former two. You still have the half-fey abilities, but you’re no longer considered fey, instead being an outsider. This works well, as usual, with Alter Self, but you already bring to the table most of the things that you’d be using anyways. The shift means that Alter Self becomes always useful, but that’s not a class ability.

    The second bit is the bonuses. You already have a solid amount of AC, and your main attack method depends on Dexterity; that makes the 1st level ability all the more useful. The second boost to NA and Constitution are less important than that first one. As for the energy reduction abilities…well, I have the nagging feeling that you made them useless, if only because you can steal energy resistance even if only for a minute. You have no other innate immunities nor Resist Energy so you can count on two forms of energy resistance that apply at all times, but you got this ability much, much earlier than others of your kind. Makes losing the levels of Spellthief hurt a bit more because getting 11 levels would have net you the ability to steal energy resistance 20.

    The third bit is the abilities. The one that, by all means, comes to mind is how Poison is upgraded. It depends on how you read Mortalbane, though. One interpretation makes the damage dealt by a Mortalbane-improved ability increase by 2d6, which is what I believe you’re aiming at. That is…well, brutal beyond belief, because if it works that way, your poison just deals 1d10+2d6 points of Constitution damage. To explain further: that means you deal approximately 12-13 points of Constitution damage on average if the creature fails its save, which means around 6 points of Fortitude lost and 6xHD points of damage lost. That can REALLY hurt, particularly one minute after where there’s the chance of losing another 12-13 points of Con, which is enough to make anything die. Of course, you can only deal half Con damage against some other creatures (outsiders, mostly, because constructs and undead are immune to ability damage), so you’re shooting yourself whenever you meet outsiders (as constructs and undead are already immune to Con damage). The other application is less brutal, but has its own charm: you deal 1d10 points of Con damage and 2d6 points of damage. While the Con loss is not modified, you’re adding some extra damage to the HP loss by lower Constitution, which may be enough to kill a creature dead on its tracks. I’m not sure if it applies once or twice (Mortalbane is very sketchy on how it works), but it can be pretty interesting…so as long as the enemy fails its save. It’s perhaps the best thing I’ve seen attached to Poison thus far, so it’s good to see you considered it.

    The rest…well, it doesn’t see much improvement. Or use. Fiendish Glare has been improved, as usual, by Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered, turning even more dangerous if the enemy has less HD because it goes from shaken to frightened almost automatically (you have a base Will save DC of 21 because of Willing Deformity, Abominable Form and Deformity [tall], and any other deformity feat will essentially boost that save. The problem with the feat is how HD stacks, so eventually you’ll find yourself without a very nice trick to use, so it’s an ability to use against mooks and only once per day. I don’t see any attempt to improve Glare of the Pit, and Summon Fiend using a babau has the same problem as the others: unless you can boost the babau, it’ll get killed real fast. At least you get a sneak-attacking partner for your awesome SA/Assassin’s Stance/Craven combo, but it won’t last long.


    Score: 2.5 (Definitely the PrC is making you no justice. If I could, I’d make a better Acolyte of the Skin for you. Sadly, that’s not the case here, but it reflects what I feel: aside from a few things, your build really doesn’t improve that much by Acolyte of the Skin, since most abilities feel useless or redundant. I can’t imagine Esh missing on Acolyte of the Skin, but that’s because it fits the fluff very nicely; thus, the class isn’t doing justice to your build. That makes me get inspired to homebrew; whenever you have an awesome idea but really can’t execute it properly.)

    Overall: 13 (3.25)
    While really full of the flavor, Esh has a few problems that would need to be fine-tuned before moving on. By itself, it’s a pretty strong and useful class, so I could say you don’t really need AotS to make the build; on the other hand, the way you handled his progression into an eventual “soul of Pandorym’s body” really makes dabbling into the Acolyte something sensible. Because of the LA, however, you can’t take as many levels, and because more levels of Spellthief would have been better, the build feels like it sacrificed power for flavor, and not in the Lightning Warrior kind of way.


    Reykja Skjar
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    Originality
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    First things first…squeeeee, Savant!!

    I have a soft spot for jacks-of-all-trades that actually do their work (which is why, on most of the games I’ve played, I’ve gone with hybrid classes, which attract me the most than single-focused classes), and the Savant is a nice little class that combines a lot of stuff. Thus, it warms my heart to see the Savant in play.

    Odd that I mention “warm”, as it leaps right into the Domovoi, which is a rare choice for a race. It has the two big “NO”s of race-choosing: racial HD and level adjustment. That said, it is one heck of a surprising race: loads of good bonuses to everything but Strength, and Produce Flame at will, plus a fire subtype so it is one hot race (pun intended).

    Then we see Jaunter, and we get yet another surprise. Jaunter is a nice little PrC that’s short, sweet and useful at every level, given its awesome teleportation abilities on what’s essentially a Rogue chassis.

    However, what really captures my attention is how the tale is split into two: a prologue where Reykja does one of his mischievous acts and apologizes, and then a complete PoV shift with the proper tale, indicating how the fiend was bound and then released into power. It explains quite well why a Domovoi, essentially a helpful spirit (or, if we’re going for appropriate allegories, the house elf from Harry Potter) becomes a Savant. It doesn’t explain how it ends up as a Jaunter, however, which is a bad idea because it leaves the PrC orphaned from the rest of the build. It’s twice as bad when you have a good option that’s not entirely explained because it doesn’t help you on its entirety.


    Score: 4 (Domovoi + Savant is an awesome combination, and Jaunter is another nice go. Yet, it’s not a full and refreshing surprise because Jaunter seems tacked in for Power and doesn’t add anything to the flavor)

    Power
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    Alright, so I already squee’d by the Savant. Now I have to frown.

    Evidently, the Savant does a lot of nice small things but has the trouble of not being very good at all of them. You get a lot of nice stuff to work with, such as the ability to make rolls for adjacent allies with Skill Assistance (Balance and Hide are very nice skills, the former being one that few people have access to and that usually is the best defense for Grease; Hide works well when you need to take a party incognito through some area) and the lone Sneak Attack dice with medium BAB meaning you’re a decent attacker. However, you don’t get most of the power behind the Savant’s Arcane Spellcasting, which is not extremely powerful but nonetheless quite decent. You get three great spells on your list (Grease, Alter Self, Glitterdust) and some extremely useful utility spells, but you don’t get much of a punch with them. Thus, you don’t get a lot of power from Savant, but a lot of utility which is just as good; with some effort, you can disarm traps, fight reasonably well, cast a few utility spells and some strong debuffs, and help allies with some of their saves.

    Thus, we have to see the remainder of your power through Jaunter and AotS, as well as what Domovoi offers. Right from scratch, you get very useful SLAs through Domovoi. Produce Flame is a nice attack spell combined with a torch source, and you can use it at-will; Flaming Sphere is another decent attack power which can be used to goad people towards a specific area or else suffer fire damage. However, it’s nice to see a very useful spell such as Pyrotechnics on the list, which is where you can draw a lot more power. You get two debuffs for the price of one, and not insignificant ones either (blindness against Fighters, Strength and Dexterity debuffs against Rogues and potentially Wizards), all of which need a fire source, and guess what? You have a permanent fire source. Pyrotechnics is a spell that few people use, but to which I have a deep sense of respect, so Domovoi adds quite a bit to power. Plus, immunity to fire can’t be bad, nor the +2 NA.

    Jaunter is, as I mentioned, a nifty little PrC. You get the Travel Power abilities, which is like the ninja’s Ki Power but used differently (plus, you get a +1 bonus to AC if you keep at least one daily use). It has some excellent crowd control abilities (because you switch between places or switch enemies into the range of allies to give them their whuppin’), but it’s the uses of Teleport, Dim Door, Plane Shift and Freedom of Movement that really shine. The more Dex you have, the more travel power daily uses you have, which is even better. You don’t lose much, and instead get even more Reflex which is formidable.

    Which leads us to Acolyte of the Skin, which…offers a bit, but nothing really surprising. AotS barely brings anything new, aside from using Glare of the Pit’s range to activate Pyrotechnics from a long distance, or Fiendish Glare to shaken and stun enemies, so there’s no big deal of power there. Most of your power actually comes from the earlier choices, plus the feats. I see Darkstalker, Bind Vestige (which can be decent if using the right vestige) and Accurate Jaunt (who would have thought I’d see a Spelltouched feat in play), which makes a lot of sense with Jaunter.


    Score: 3 (the build has a lot of nice tricks and relies on debuffing and striking the enemy using your mobility, but it starts to lag at the latter levels because Acolyte of the Skin offers way too little. Its power comes from its utility and focus on teamwork, with a large variety of useful tricks, but nothing that really screams powerful. Jaunter is what grants a lot of power to the build, and it shows, but it’s because of the power of Teleport and similar spells).

    Elegance
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    I see a big and glaring flaw in here, good sir. From what I see, Reykja shouldn’t be capable of entering Acolyte of the Skin, because it lacks caster level 5th. You see, Reykja has only four Savant levels, and Arcane Focus is acquired at 5th level. Up until 4th level, a Savant has no caster level whatsoever. Had you taken the 5th level in Savant, entry would have been assured. It was so close, I have to blame the racial Hit Dice for that. I also have to blame that the racial Hit Dice for your spell-like abilities is fixed at CL 3rd, because that would have been another entry method (and a clever one at that). That alone should disqualify you from entering. My suspicion is that you entered through Jaunter, but there’s a wee little problem with it: you’re not 4th level when you enter, and while Baleful/Benign Transposition are spell-like abilities, they aren’t similar to the spells on Spell Compendium, so you can’t tag an arcane caster level for them.

    Another big and glaring flaw is that you assume right up that LA buy-off is valid. I have no qualms with Accurate Jaunt: it’s a feat, and one that could easily be added to any feat list if you want to (I know I’ve wanted to use some of those feats, because they feel nice and work well at times; it’s like the reserve feat’s better cousin); however, while you could make a good story for Spelltouched Feats, you can’t do the same with LA buy-off. That nicks you yet another set of points, which would have been great.

    Yet another thing is that you don’t explain much about how you became a Jaunter, which conflicts with one of its key requirements. What other planes, aside from the Material Plane, you have visited? This hurts your build immensely, because the best Jaunter powers are at 3rd and 4th level, the ones you decided to sacrifice in case LA buy-off isn’t allowed.

    Finally, there’s Bind Vestige (and its Improved format). Bind Vestige can be an awesome ability, but I find a big problem right here: how do you use it? Why it is needed? How do you use Amon, Ronove and the available vestiges’ powers? How does it blends with your build?

    Wait, there’s something else. The build is quite MAD, requiring Dexterity, Intelligence and Charisma (Dex for AC, initiative, Reflex and uses of Travel Power; Intelligence for Savant spellcasting and Charisma for many of the save DCs of your spell-like and supernatural abilities) in addition to Constitution. The qualm, more than just the MAD trouble, is that you focused a lot on Charisma when you should have focused on something else. Dexterity would have been an awesome candidate, as Dex 22 would have meant 10 daily uses of Travel Power at ECL 22nd (remember I’m not counting LA buy-off), +6 to AC, +6 to Reflex, an initiative modifier of +6 and bonuses to Hide and Balance, the skills that you provide assistance with. They went for Charisma which only applies to DCs, and not all of them. If you had qualified with Savant spellcasting, you would have used Intelligence for the Poison SLA, so there’s only two abilities that use Charisma: Fiendish Glare and the Domovoi SLAs (well, more like one ability and one ability set). You’re essentially powering Charisma but don’t link anything to it, which hinders you quite a lot.


    Score: 1 (there’s a huge lot of mistakes over here, particularly since the way you handled Reykja suggests you’re skilled at making builds. The assumption of LA and the focus on Charisma when Dexterity would have been the proper choice makes your power plummet, and the choices made at each level don’t help. Aside from the feats, which I believe is the best organization I’ve seen thus far, but the losses overcome the victories)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    I see some clever uses of the class’ features, but as I mentioned in Power, the class doesn’t offer a lot to you. The Fiendish skin works well with Jaunter as it gives you a free daily use of Travel Power (kudos for essentially using one class to boost another unintentionally!), and seems to be what you took advantage the most. Your NA bonus merges well with the increase from the skin, and the note where DR acquired through these means doesn’t bring a glaring weakness from alignment (and the fact that you entered as Chaotic Neutral, a very clever choice) makes me think your focus was on the skin’s abilities.

    There are some other surprises here. Fire resistance is worthless for you, but you’ve managed to counter one of your weaknesses with a buffer. You’ll still take twice the amount of damage from cold spells, but at least you can survive 10 points out of it, which might be enough to use your Jaunter powers for safety. Another surprise is that you’re the first one I’ve seen such far (given that I see the builds in order) that chose a Kyton. Unlike the Babau, the Chain Devil is surprisingly resilient (Regeneration!), plus it has a nasty set of attacks (the chains, which act as if they were spiked chains. That said, the Chain Devil unfortunately isn’t as strong at the level you get it, so you need something to boost it…which you don’t have. Even then, you have to beat its spell resistance, which is pretty high if you come to think about it.

    From what you DON’T use…Poison is, sadly, unfortunately weak. If you entered through Savant, your primary ability modifier should have been Intelligence, and while you have the ability to move and attack as a full round action through Spring Attack, I don’t believe you can use Poison in the same way. So, you don’t really use Poison in the best of ways. Ditto for Fiendish Glare: sure, you have one mondo hard save, but it’s for a 1/day ability, and unlike with other builds you don’t focus on improving its effects.

    From what you neglected to mention…when you mentioned Fiendish Gaze, I believe you were trying to mention Glare of the Pit for purposes of how it mingles with Pyrotechnics. It’s a shame you didn’t thought how to improve it, because adding a way to cause the targets to catch fire would have made them a homing target for Pyrotechnics. This hurts me so badly because it’s essentially an unusual way to make Glare of the Pit actually useful. Grease doesn’t spontaneously combust (Incendiary Slime does), so it’s not like you can make it work. This is a wasted chance to make a rather insignificant ability of the PrC work.


    Score: 3.5 (you take some advantages from taking the class, particularly those related to the skin. Likewise, you’re one of the few who went Kyton and made good use of cold resistance. However, Poison not acting as intended hurts, and I weep for how you could have turned Glare of the Pit from a mere blasting attack to a wonderful homing beacon for your Pyrotechnics debuff)

    Overall: 11.5 (2.875)
    After a good look, I’m a little bit disappointed in you. Reykja has the merits to be a decent build, one that aims to help a party with its great mobility, skill assistance, spellcasting and feat choices; however, some mistakes tarnished that. My disappointment comes because I feel I learned a few nice tricks by watching your build, but the failures made them lose part of their shine. I’d recommend taking a good second look at them and see how you can improve, particularly regarding how to better take advantage of those Jaunter levels. It has the things needed to be a great, flavorful build for an NPC (not a villain, sadly, and neither a hero), but it gets marred by bad moves.

  7. - Top - End - #187
    Troll in the Playground
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    May 2009
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    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Luc
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    Originality
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    Hmm, where do I start? I like your style. Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil…classy.

    What’s not that classy is having a gnome bard. Well sure, it’s good that you didn’t gun for Shadowcraft Mage or any of the classical Gnome tricks, but you went with the classical Bard tricks: Dragonfire Inspiration for damage, for example, using a race for the one explicit purpose of shifting the damage type. It’s kinda boring if you think about it.

    Fiend of Corruption, on the other hand, is classy. It’s one of the few builds that thinks about its new progression a bit further, ending up with a powerful PrC even if you weren’t meant to get it by normal means. It’s definitely chock-full of powers, and fits your build idea very nicely. It’s evident you were gunning for it.

    Gnome Paragon…well, it’s a bit of both. Paragon classes are not usually my cup of…well, I don’t drink coffee and much less tea, so we’ll go with “yogurt” for now…, but they don’t see a lot of use. It’s a class meant to make a particular race stronger (and I despise the fact that the Tieflings get a paragon race, but Aasimar don’t), and since you entered as a Bard, it’s obvious that it guns for bardic progression. Thus, it’s not something that’s refreshing or obvious, since you’re gunning to take advantage of the paragon class at its fullest, so that you get more advantage of the class itself.

    One odd surprise was to take the devil’s path, which is a lawful path, with a class that’s mostly known for being chaotic in nature. By all means, you’re going NE from what I can see, but it’s interesting to see the juxtaposition between the devil’s lawful nature and penchant for guile and bargain with the “devil’s musician” feeling of passionate music.

    Score: 3 (it’s not surprising, but it’s not boring either. Some of the choices are pretty obvious, but the fluff’s inclination towards ethical neutrality and how a creature with a bit of chaos in its heart can end up being a master bargainer definitely surprises. A refreshing twist on the “devil’s musician” and “deal with the devil” tropes by becoming the dealer yourself. By the way, did the poor gnome’s psyche broke entirely, did it merge, or did it simply mimics the fiend’s psyche but exists nonetheless?)

    Power
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    For being a Bard, you get a surprising set of power. The first indication of something done right is the Gnome Paragon granting you Mirror Image as an SLA. You get it at the same level as a Wizard, and even if it lasts less than the norm, you get a solid defensive capability right there. Dragonfire Inspiration is also a brutal choice, because it adds extra damage to yourself and allies, and being acid damage, that means it’s not very easy to resist.

    On the middle, however, your progression somewhat halts. The spells you get are better suited for non-battle purposes (save for Improvisation and Glitterdust), which means you don’t focus that much on battle rather than on preventing battles in the first place or get unlikely allies in the case battle can’t be prevented. Against certain creatures, you’re limited to Dragonfire Inspiration (which doesn’t seem to increase: it stays at 1d6, usable only once per day, and with no Inspirational Boost/Song of the Heart to make it stronger), which means you get killed easily. True story. At least you have Invisibility in case you need to escape… The Devil-Touched feats (particularly Devil’s Sight) are nice boosts to power, but Devil’s Flesh appears a tad too late, something that could have boosted that part of the build a bit better (more NA which stacks with your own, plus a stronger Intimidate for Imperious Command).

    Then, when you get to Fiend of Corruption, you get powerful all of a sudden. You get something like Alter Self at will, but with a caveat: it only works with humanoid forms. That’s no problem, as since you’re an outsider now, that means you can eventually get Alter Self to turn into outsider forms, or Alternate Form to gain humanoid forms. Fiend’s Favor ensures you get a load of followers with some time, because they’ll get dependent on your buffs and thus you can blackmail them. Eventually, with Grant Wish, you gain the ability to cast 1/day one of the most powerful spells around, though only for others. You can, though, indirectly use this power for yourself, so that means eventually you can get many things for your own. I mean, you can get someone to request a Manual of Health +5, and then claim its soul before it uses the manual, which ends up with a Soul Gem and a free item. That kind of ability is pure evil, if used correctly.

    But again, there’s a gap in power right in the middle, coincidentally where the Acolyte of the Skin lays. Fiendish Glare is there, and fully extended it can be pretty powerful; with Imperious Command, a bit more so (and it has some solid DC because of your high Charisma), and with Devil’s Flesh, you get a pretty decent Intimidate. Glare of the Pit is somewhat boosted, which means you get a decent attack whenever you need it; your spells improve, and you eventually get to become an Outsider, which is the core of becoming a Fiend of Corruption. However, from the strong start and the strong end, it feels like the middle is just lacking. That’s a problem that may reflect on Use of Secret Ingredient, but we’ll see about that.


    Score: 3.5 (the build starts pretty strong, what with Mirror Image and Dragonfire Inspiration, then stagnates a bit, only supported by Fiendish Glare and spells. However, when you get into Fiend of Corruption, you slowly recover that power, until Grant Wish all of a sudden grants a great deal of power. Luc is the kind of guy you want on your side, not against; however, it’s a creature that can’t fight on its own, so you depend a lot on how well you can manipulate others)

    Elegance
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    I’ve begun to groan every time I see that the prereqs for Acolyte of the Skin are not followed. I was trying to figure how you did it. Thanks a lot for clearing that out. That’s a creative way to enter, because while you don’t have full access to all your spells at the higher CL, you get a good deal of them. I have to mention that it’s borderline cheesy because it depends on how the DM interprets the entry requirement, but for all purposes you have an increased caster level for (some of) your arcane spells, so it’s not wrong to consider you qualify because of this. The cheesiness of early entry to the class is what makes it somewhat inelegant, but its legal nonetheless, and I just happen to like how it’s managed; technically, you could have entered at 3rd level because your spellcasting level would have been 5th right there, but you went the extra mile for the 3rd level of Gnome Paragon and thus delayed the entry somewhat.

    A valid concern brought by the Chairman and spectators is the entry requirement for Fiend of Corruption, and the need for an Evil subtype. Having no access to the ritual can be harmful, because that way you have 6 levels lacking something. It’s such an important part of your build, that negating Savage Species essentially kills it. You depend a lot on it.

    Thing is? Screw it: I’ll allow it. It’s a clever entry trick for Fiend of Corruption, it fits the build so badly that negating that ritual essentially negates your entire progress thus far, and it only makes sense. Gaining a subtype should have been part of the capstone, if only because you’re slowly corrupting yourself with the skin until eventually you become a reasonable facsimile of the fiend whose essence is bound to you. If by that moment you aren’t completely depraved and evil, I dunno…it makes little sense to get all those powers and whatnot. The idea is to turn you, slowly, into a fiend, so… It’s there to complete something in order to get into a specific PrC which is the apex of your fluff, so it’d be unfair to negate that.

    The use of Devil-Touched feats, particularly Devil’s Flesh, is classy. Devil-Touched feats are part of that second generation of feats that scale based on how many you have, so having three feels only natural. It’s interesting to see how it boosts Intimidate, meaning it’s perfect for Acolyte of the Skin (I’d dare say it’s meant to be used with it). Another classy thing is to use a Chain Devil, because unlike others, you have a reliable way to boost it (DFI + Mirror Image), which fits pretty well with its defenses.

    I appreciate that you refrained from using flaws or LA buyoff, because despite how cheesy it feels to have early entry, you took the initiative to finish all three PrCs you entered. I don’t like that much to see something like the gnome bard racial substitution level without earning something important out of it, because Counter Fear is pretty much the opposite of what you’ll eventually do, and you can only go so far with the cantrips.


    Score: 4 (it’s nice to see a build that’s well-thought, delivering the correct answers to all of the potential issues, but I just can’t happen to take the bitter aftertaste of early-entry cheese. It’s nothing to punish, but nothing to praise either, so the score relies on how you dealt with everything else, and for that, the only qualm is that some choices could have shifted. It doesn’t feel heavy or chaotic, but lacks only a bit of organization to make it really classy)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    Obviously, you NEED Acolyte of the Skin. You want to become a fiend, and what better way to do so than absorbing a fiend’s essence through their skin? Becoming an Outsider is entirely necessary to get into Fiend of Corruption, so it’s not like you could have replaced it. However, the question then becomes: how does Acolyte of the Skin helps you become a better fiend beyond that single point? Or rather, what else can you draw?

    For starters, the bonus to Dexterity and Constitution don’t boost that much, at least compared to others. Gnomes get a healthy Con score, so you get lots of hit points and Fortitude; Dexterity, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to influence a lot. It’s a shame the class doesn’t boost Charisma, but Gnome Paragon provides for that.

    I like that you took some consideration for the supernatural abilities. Extend Su Ability works wonders for Fiendish Glare, as it makes the stunning effect last for a long while, whereas Empower Su Ability works wonders for Glare of the Pit in order to deal more damage than a Scorching Ray while aiming all three rays, against two people (or, if you feel nasty, concentrate all against one).

    For what it doesn’t see too much use…well, the resistances are there and you don’t have native resistances (and Bard doesn’t offer Resist Energy), so it’s not something extremely potent but nothing unnecessary. Poison is where I’m a bit ambivalent. You mention using Fiend’s Favor on yourself, but I’m not entirely sure the ability is meant to work that way. It’s meant to be an ability used on others, so it’s not used creatively on yourself (particularly after the penalty kicks in, since you depend a lot on Charisma). I feel that Poison could be used in a different way , one that you might not have considered: how about using Poison to hasten the death of those you’ve made bargains with? Give them a boost to Constitution, then when they get into Con junkies, grant them the wish in exchange for you touching them twice (maybe grant them a Manual of Health, instead of a direct inherent bonus?). Plead for them to let them honor the end of your bargain first, before they use their boon, and finally see if you can kill them before they use their boon. Between the penalty and their desperation, you might get a way to kill them before they can even take advantage of your perks. I see no mention of this, given that most of your abilities are geared towards the function of “tempter” and not the function of “warrior”, so I have to take a few notches from here.

    However, that gives an interesting insight. Your use of Acolyte of the Skin supports your combat functions pretty well, something that contrasts with the feel of empty levels right in the middle. It boosts your combat capabilities only a bit, so it feels like the build stagnates there, but on the other hand, it offers a series of capabilities that you’d otherwise lack. You take some advantage from the class features, so it’s not like it’s entirely lost.

    Score: 4 (the main goal of using Acolyte of the Skin was to get into Fiend of Corruption, but that doesn’t mean it’s largely ignored. I see a lot of great applications for many of the class features, such as the ability to summon a kyton and the glares. The lack of support for Poison is what makes it falter a bit.)

    Overall: 14.5 (3.625)
    This build is interesting because it takes the original fluff of the class (gain the powers of a fiend) for an ulterior purpose, which is essentially to do unto others what the fiend that gave its essence did to you. Basically, you’re the closest to a fiend there is. It’s a clever and nice little build, marred only because the PrC itself hinders you a bit. Some of the moves done with the build are good, the others not that much. It’s at its terrain when being the tempter, so your power and finesse lies on manipulating others. Alone, your weakness emerges and you get into serious trouble. That said, the fluff leads you to play as the manipulator, so it fits quite a lot with the mechanics used.


    Baby the Bearbarian
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    Originality
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    After the initial shock, I have to word this carefully.

    So, we got a Half-Vampire (nasty template), Voidmind (another NASTY template) Goliath (well-known race) Barbarian (expected for Goliath)/Spellthief (completely out of the blue for Goliath)/Acolyte of the Skin?

    Ow, my brain…

    Seriously, though: it was a fun little read. The story, that is. Just the part where it mentions a bloodthirsty berserker with a literal taste for blood sounds great, but then you overload it with a mixture of a fiend that willingly offers to aid you and then a trio of Illithids that make you their b…espectacled servant. Yeah.

    Interesting to know that you began your life as a spellthief, but the story mentions little of how you ended up as one. It only felt natural that you ended up as a Barbarian, and it’s interesting to see anything BUT a Spirit Lion Totem; no Pounce, but you’re aiming for a superior grapple technique, which goes the extra mile with Powerful Build and Mountain Rage. It makes Spellthief all the more unusual, because it’s not there entirely for the fluff and much less for the power (what it gives is just too small to, well…matter).


    Score: 4 (while a Goliath Barbarian is about as common as you might see, the mixture of Half-Vampire, Voidmind and the Bear Totem make your build unique. There’s a little bit of a problem in how Spellthief mingles into here, tho)

    Power
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    Evidently, what you get from Spellthief and Barbarian is not enough. The best thing to consider is how the templates boost the build, because it’s obvious that you get most of your power from the templates.

    Let’s start with Half-Vampire. You get three bonuses to important ability scores, those being Strength, Dexterity and Constitution; you get Blood Drain (Con damage to the enemy and temporary HP to you is good) and some minor immunities. You get a crippling weakness, which is the blood dependency, but it’s evident as we can see later that you’re attempting to be a master grappler, so that’s not much of an issue.

    Next comes Voidmind. Voidmind offers a pretty nasty set of abilities such as the cone of slime (acid damage, -2 to Will saves, stunned for 1d4+1 rounds), the ability to constrict (once again, suggesting grappling as a main technique), improved grab (ditto), sentient tentacle (yet again, ditto), SR and immunities, such as immunity to mind-affecting abilities (aside from those used through the mind flayer host quality), ability damage/drain and energy drain. You get yet another crippling weakness (being bound to a trio of squid-faces), but at least you can free yourself of that one. Oh, and that sweet, sweet tentacle.

    Now, after analyzing these, let’s go a bit further. It’s obvious you’re gunning for grappling, because between Mountain Rage (bonus to Strength and Large size), Bear Totem (Improved Grapple), Half-Vampire (Blood Drain + Str bonus) and Voidmind (Constrict + tentacle + improved grab + Str bonus) you’re aiming for a reasonable +13 to grapple (+17 with the tentacle) and constrict damage, then pin for blood drain. It’s a nasty little technique were it not for the two biggest flaws I can see: first, the BAB. Oh, the BAB! It’s way too little to matter, so eventually your main ability will begin to falter until it’s entirely useless. It really sucks when your BAB acts against you. The second, of course, is anything that has at least a bit of Freedom of Movement or a jaunting ability that requires no movement. That’ll cramp your style real fast.

    So, does it has any other nifty tricks? Well, between Fiendish Gaze and Cone of Slime, you get two ways to stun enemies, but stunned enemies don’t make you apply for sneak attack. I have to mention Sneak Attack, because once you enable grapple you can SA them at your leisure, but unfortunately you can’t usually rely on grapple. Aside from that, you’re relying mostly on grapple and having as many feats as possible apply to that grapple, so that you can end up stunning the enemy and then land lots of damage. It feels like a one-trick pony, which it isn’t (you get Fiendish Gaze, Glare of the Pit and Cone of Slime as secondary attacks), but it makes you seem less powerful when you’re not in your terrain (aka, not facing creatures with blood vessels, as your story proves) once they’re consumed.

    Ultimately, what hurts you more than anything is the loss of BAB. Being a martial character, having so little BAB hurts so badly it’s not fun, but that’s what happens when you lose six levels because of level adjustment. It hurts even more when you have two crippling weaknesses. It feels like you’re playing a Paladin, but you’re not a Paladin and you get even worse penalties for fa(i)l(l)ing.


    Score: 3 (it feels like a one-trick pony, but fortunately it isn’t. It has the swarms, elemental and natural attacks to help, but in the end you finish with grappling techniques, which can be countered easily, and which are affected by your severe lack of BAB. You need a lot of Strength to compensate, even if you have the size and technique to make it matter, but once you’re unable to grapple the enemy, you’re screwed. Or when you’re facing creatures with no blood vessels. Plus you need to depend on blood AND you’re the puppet of three Illithids, which is just as bad.)

    Elegance
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    Once again, I see a pattern here. Where, if I may ask, do I see a proper arcane CL in order to enter Acolyte of the Skin? This seems to be a pandemic in this competition! I feel I must be doing something wrong because I’ve seen a few builds that don’t qualify. You don’t take 5 levels of Spellthief, and your templates don’t grant spell-like abilities, so your only claim to fame is the Detect Magic SLA from Spellthief, which is based on your SPELLTHIEF class level; ergo, it’s not a valid entry method. That’s enough to net a bad score…

    …but it goes further than that. You also assumed you had all THREE of the special abilities from the half-vampire? I wish you had all three, because that way you could have gotten a bit more power. The story suggests all three, but the template reads differently. Essentially, you can only choose one of the three; either you drink blood, or you have a charming gaze, or you can call creatures 1/day. Not all three. That’s bad, because it’s hard to pin which would be more useful: the gaze works nicely with your other glares, the blood drain is the apex of your grappling mastery, and the ability to call swarms makes you less of a one-trick pony and merges well with your other summoning ability. All three are valuable, so it would have been awesome to have them. I would be tempted to make an exception for you, but sadly, the fact that you weren’t specific with that means I have to get the axe sharpened for more points.

    There’s also a discrepancy between your story and your build. In the story, Baby gets infused with the Fiendish Skin first, and THEN becomes a Voidmind creature. In the build, it’s the opposite: you get brain-devoured first, and then you get to become an Acolyte. In theory, you become an Acolyte the moment you get the skin, so you should have been an Acolyte first and THEN a Voidmind creature, because rectifying the choice wouldn’t have made a difference in the story’s outcome, instead making a bit more sense.

    Finally…tsk, tsk, tsk. You assumed I’d pay a blind eye to WBL? Yes, it’s an useful tool, but I want to see your character without assuming you get Manuals or Tomes for free, or heaven forbid, grafts! You already have a free graft (the skin, namely), but assuming you can become a patchwork of grafts is a big no-no in my book. Sure, they might make a difference…but what if you lose them? Fortunately the “shopping list” is not so big, but it does have an assumption, so that’d be a reason why points are lost. If you had any more points after this, anyways.

    Oh wait, one more thing…since I do this as a stream of thought, after doing UoSI, I noticed something else. Since you’ll be reading this before reading UoSI: HOW DO YOU QUALIFY FOR STUNNING FIST, ANYWAYS!? Stunning Fist requires a Wisdom of 13, while you have a Wisdom of 8. That’s one feat you could easily replace. Note how that cripples you even further?

    Score: 1 (between not qualifying for AotS, the slight dependence on WBL, and not paying attention to Half-Vampire, I’ve seen many a mistake. There’s even a fluff-born mistake, which leads me to think this was done a tad hastily, which is never good. It’s almost a miracle, and something I’d shed points for, that you didn’t decide to apply LA buy-off, but the penalties are too severe in order for me to grant it.)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    So, here’s the big question. How does AotS help a non-caster class? I’ve seen a tendency over here, and it definitely shows: trying to strong-arm martial prowess to AotS doesn’t work at all.

    For starters, with such a pitiful BAB, the acolyte’s medium BAB hinders your main trick, which is grappling. Furthermore, the Acolyte offers absolutely NO boons to grapple, save for Poison (which can be coupled with Blood Drain and Stunning Fist in order to finish a creature just through Con damage).

    However, it goes a bit further. The worn skin only offers a minimal improvement to your scores, because you’re not so reliant on Dexterity; Constitution is far more important because it defines the duration of Rage, plus the DC of your Cone of Slime), but the bonus to NA is pitiful at best. The DR is nice, though, because you have two sources of DR applying at once: you need to have a magic, good-aligned silvered weapon to get slain. Oh wait, you don’t: you missed that last level, so no DR (or spellcasting progression) for you!

    Regarding Fiendish Glare, Poison and Glare of the Pit, they’re not specifically improved, they don’t seem to pay a key part of your build’s development, but they see some synergies. Poison, of course, works well with Stunning Fist and Blood Drain, as in between the three you can lower Con enough to lock the enemy. Sadly, they rely on Charisma (mostly because, had you gotten the right amount of CL, you’d have depended on Charisma for spellcasting), which is not your strong point, and you have poor Wisdom which means a poor saving throw for Stunning Fist (which leads me to question HOW YOU GOT STUNNING FIST IN THE FIRST PLACE!?).

    And we end up with Summon Fiend, which is…largely unmentioned. Oh wait, you use them as vampire chow. That’s certainly a creative use of the Secret Ingredient, but not the best one. They’re weak, but as it stands, they could be more than a match for you. Still, vampire chow?


    Score: 1.25 (some abilities see some use, but you don’t get too much power from the PrC itself. The 6 lost levels don’t help much, and you don’t get the last level. Seriously, with a way to get Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered from some other means, you could have skipped AotS entirely and the build would have been oodles better. Seriously. It feels tacked. The only reason you get cookie points is because of the hilarious use of Summon Fiend)

    Overall: 9.25 (2.3125)
    Definitely, Acolyte of the Skin doesn’t seem to be a worthy class for martial characters. Baby shows no exception to the rule. The class really doesn’t do anything for him, as the templates are what carry most of the build’s weight. The loss of 6 LA hurts like no tomorrow, but it’s the loss of BAB that hurts the most. Those 10 levels could have been used for something else, and that could have meant at least 1 or 2 points of extra BAB, which would have been nicer. I mean, as it stands, you could have taken Barbarian to 10 and Spellthief to 6 and you could have gone much better than currently so. I won’t say you should feel ashamed of your build, because it has some nifty tricks, but Acolyte of the Skin is just not cut for Baby.


    The Rag and Bone Man
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    Originality
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    Certainly a creative way to enter! Using a spontaneous specialist might be an expected entry point, but not one with conflicting themes. I mean, a Warmage certainly can feel like worthwhile because of fiends’ destructive impulses (tanar’ri, mostly) and a Beguiler because of the fiends’ malevolent guile (baatezu, mostly). But a Dread Necromancer? I can see it if you were a follower of Orcus (who revels on undead), but you clearly went the path of the baatezu, so it’s obvious you were gunning for something entirely different than the expectatives. That’s nice.

    I also like the “balance” between fiendish power and undeath, and what little care you have for your birth body, because you first wither it, then add a fiendish skin, then take one of your arms and graft an undead version into the stump. That’s pretty gory if you ask me.

    If there’s something I dislike, was that you chose a kyton. I know, the reference to cenobites and whatnot gives it a “Hellraiser” vibe (kudos on that one; given the horror references, though, I might suspect who of the competitors you are…), but I feel that the chain devil wasn’t the one that could have suited you. I mean, why oh why you didn’t go for the osyluth!? That’s a fiend that looks like a shriveled undead creature; the least you could have done is try to get as little skin as it could and take advantage of your shriveled body in order to look even more fiendishly undead! Bad competitor! Points drop!


    Score: 4.5 (a fiendish undead theme that doesn’t rely on Orcus is wonderful, and gives a whole new dimension to playing a Cenobite in D&D, almost equaling all references. What really made me cringe was that you could have gone for the bone devil; if you’re going for a theme, go for it as deep as you can! I mean, the bone devil is higher in hierarchy than a chain devil, so it makes sense that you could summon a chain devil as your lackey. Those bits count, after all.)

    Power
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    Just looking from your scores, you’re pretty balanced for a spellcaster. Having a decent Strength score, an excellent Constitution score and the all-important Charisma score really make it pretty decent. Aside from Intelligence (which you make little use of), all scores are over the average, and in order of importance. Well, you don’t use that much Wisdom, but hey, Arcane Disciple? Totally worth it.

    That said, the power of the build comes from what it can do, and much like another competitor, yours is focused on the sheer amount of creatures you can manipulate. You went for undead, which have a whole suit of resources, such as energy drain and ability damage/drain, incorporeality and others.

    Evidently, the core of your power is spellcasting, and it’s nice to see how much you focused on incrementing the small list of the Dread Necromancer with more choices. Spirit Worm is particularly nasty at any levels (Con damage per round!), and between Advanced Learning and the Deathbound Domain, you get a nifty amount of spells beyond what you’d normally get. It’s a shame about Arcane Disciple spells only usable once and only being capable of casting up to 4th level spells when you can cast 7th level spells: had you gotten your Wisdom to 17, you’d have gotten Revive Undead (to restore one of your super-undead to life), Awaken Undead (intelligent undead!? Sure, it can come bite you in the end, but if you know how to use them…) and Avasculate (touch the enemy, scrape half of its hit points, and a chance to stun for 1 round). That doesn’t mean you don’t have good 7th level spells (Destruction instead of Disintegrate, Finger of Death, etc.) or 6th level spells (Acid Fog, Circle of Death, Harm, Planar Binding) or 5th level spells (Cloudkill, Greater Dispel Magic, Lesser Planar Binding), but those would have been awesome spells to add. Then again, you did mention to seek ways to boost it up, so… Erm, it’s not an Elegance thing, but it’s a Power thing. Let’s just say that the drop was cushioned a bit, alright?

    So, what about Pale Master? For starters, Deathbound domain doesn’t apply here, so you don’t get the extension to Animate Dead, but you get two cool spells usable as 1/day abilities: your meat and bones spell (Animate Dead) and your “oh snap, something got wrong; need fixing!” spell (Control Undead). The latter is particularly nice, because you reduce the duration to less than 1/10th of normal to make it irresistible. At least it lets you run away, though some way to initiate diplomacy with the undead would be nice. The undead armor thing, as you clearly mentioned, isn’t as awesome as the rest. Now, the Paralyzing Touch? Nice move, because you’re stacking all kinds of debuffs and status effects here and there.

    Which is what leads to the big advantage of this build: between all the debuffs, the free healing/damage thing (Charnel Touch is especially beautiful), the status effects, and the myriad of undead creatures at your command, not to mention all those tasty save or die effects, you’re a threat to behold in the battlefield. Given that you have a series of innate resistances as well and not-bad scores (which are protected by your DN resistances to ability damage/drain), you’re one tough cookie (who can wield a mean martial weapon in case things get up-close and personal).

    Oh, and I couldn’t forget about this. I was this close to lambast you because you couldn’t get the most iconic thing a necromancer who dabbles in fiendish lore could do: Vile Death. That closeness became a big stomping WHOOO!!!! when I noticed Dread Necromancer gets it two (spell) levels earlier. I mean, not only you are an unholy blend of fiendish power and undeath, but your undead creatures are as well. That’s going beyond classy: nothing can be more frightening than having a 10-headed fiendish hydra skeleton and its pals, or ravenous fiendish ghouls, which could later be awakened and turned into the hapless population.

    Oh, did I forgot about UMD? How could I!? That’s yet another boost of power right there, even if it’s not as powerful as the norm as you need to dedicate some effort towards it. It’s at least good for Alter Self, tho.


    Score: 5 (spells, sound front-line combat skills, debuffs, status effects and fiendish undead. Alright, that bought me in. I can’t say that much; it’s a rich and varied build with a lot of options that are actually useful. If you can’t do it, let your awakened fiendish undead pals do the work for you.)

    Elegance
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    If there’s one thing that most judges like, is that everything is explained and dealt with. It saves a lot of problems.

    For example: I was gonna deck you the hardest for entering early. Then you mentioned Spell Thematics. SPELL THEMATICS! I actually despise that feat from the bottom of my heart because it was justifying the idea of making custom-looking spells, so I wondered how it was important for an optimal build. Then I notice the little “thematic spell cast at +1 CL” and how that makes you enter at 5th level, and then I notice “darn, it’s an early entry trick enabler!”, so it made me reconsider the feat. It went from “ugh, that feat!?” to “wait, how did THAT feat did that!?” in the blink of a second.

    Another thing was the entry point of Pale Master. Being a Dread Necromancer, it’s evident you want to have undead minions as soon as possible, likely after your fighting skills start to lag behind. Pale Master could have felt like a needless interruption, but Animate Dead is clearly part of your build (a key part of it, to be precise), so delaying that would have dented your overall power. Even once per day, getting Animate Dead earlier than usual (and without material components) allows you to get minions early on, which you can then heal through Charnel Touch (though you can’t buff). The spell progression doesn’t seem to bump or delay that much, as you get spellcasting progression at exactly the same rate as you would with Acolyte of the Skin, so it feels natural.

    It’s somewhat refreshing to see every trick carefully explained, such as how Fiendish Glare blends well with the Dread Necro’s plethora of fear spells, or how your acquisition of fire and cold resistance makes you less dependent on Resist Energy (which you don’t actually have…), or the reasons why you dipped into Pale Master before finishing Acolyte of the Skin and then AFTER finally finishing PM. The build rundowns are fun enough, and a chuckle is always nice to have.

    If there’s something I don’t like, though, is the lack of options. I mean, while I do appreciate that you have no dependence on items or flaws or LA buy-off, I could have liked to see a suggestion on how to alter your build a bit more. You have a lot of buffs for your animated creatures, but there’s no mention of how to snatch Corpsecrafter by exchanging a feat (likely Sickening Grasp), which would have made your undead creatures even MORE dangerous, as you’re an undead spellcaster. There’s a big difference between “optional” and “required”. It’s minimal, because there IS some use for Sickening Grasp, but sadly I could have seen a nod to better undead minions over here.


    Score: 4.75 (the build flows well and is well explained, with the most controversial choices carefully indicated. At first the lay-out seems confusing, but it eventually has everything in its place. The only thing I didn’t like was the lack of options for build variety, particularly one to make your undead minions even MORE dangerous…)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
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    With a nice build and a nice flavor, how does the Secret Ingredient flare? Well…truth be told, I see very little advantage from it, aside from following the trend of another build that had it as a necessary part of its fluff. As I said to that competitor, the PrC is making you no justice in that regard.

    Let’s start with the things you take advantage of. The skin, of course, is the first thing I can peg off: you have darkvision twice as long (first from AotS, then from Pale Master), a boost to Dex and Con (which eventually blends with a boost to Dex), natural armor bonus (making your skin tougher), and a source of DR that’s much better than the DR you have (although bypassed by good-aligned weapons, you still nudge a bit of them from your Dread Necro’s DR). Fiendish Glare also sees some use, because you’re a charismatic person who has ways to extend that fear effect WITHOUT using Imperious Command. I should salute you for that.

    However, the rest…doesn’t see too much use. Poison, as you mention, is only one more of your bag of tricks, but you don’t do something amazing with it: you could have at least mentioned that Sickening Grasp and your fear spells made it harder for the target to succeed on their save, then add Spirit Worm for a massive loss of Con. Twice per day, you could make one creature die a sorry death; if it had some awesome resistances and whatnot, you could end up with a brutal undead minion! I see this as a lost opportunity. Glare of the Pit is another ability you pay no attention to, which is bad because it gives the idea that you really paid no attention to the class abilities other than the skin and perhaps the summoned creature. Sure, you mention that you break the damage “cap”, but only if you do it 1/day and only if you aim both beams at the same creature, shortly before getting the even more powerful Harm and Greater Harm spells.

    Which leads us to the summoned fiend ability. I didn’t knew that Chain Devils were so hard to beat, but I do know that it’s no Babau, so that’s at least nice. It’s twice as nice that the theme of your build, and the fiend you took the skin from, is actually a relative of a Chain Devil, so bonus points for that thematic link. However, aside from that, the Chain Devil will feel like a mook to your best undead minions, particularly once Vile Death comes on-line at 20th level. Given that you have a few summoning spells, you could have found a way to boost summoning in such a way that you could end up with a menacing Kyton as a pal, plus make those summoned creatures even stronger. I speak, of course, of Augment Summoning.

    In the end, while it’s thematically appropriate (for the shock factor of guy + fiend + undead = fiendishly undead-ish guy but still not entirely fiendish or undead), the amount of feats you get betray you. With so many options at your disposal, trying to make them all useful would have been mad. This isn’t something to harshly punish you, but I feel that you could do something with, at least, Poison.


    Score: 4.25 (thematically, it’s necessary for you to enter AotS. Mechanically, it offers some nice perks but the core of your build doesn’t need it. You do a lot with what you get from the PrC, but I see some lost opportunities that could have made Poison a very deadly weapon at your disposal. Then there’s Glare of the Pit which sees only a modicum of utility when you have far more dangerous spells at your disposal.)

    Overall: 18.5 (4.625)
    This build is really creative in many ways, taking an already awesome class and adding it some punch. While it has a great deal of power within, it is the fluff that really takes the award here. Right from the start, I saw this combo would have been a great winner, and while it was short from the goal, it ended up as a nice, strong build nonetheless. It didn’t betray, but delivered what I expected. There were times where I felt that the PrC didn’t offered you what you truly needed, but you managed to rescue some of the PrC’s features from the slump.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Mother Morrigna
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    Very well, let’s see where this build will…UR PRIEST!?

    Quick, hand me the lansoprazole! No, you dolt, not omeprazole; that gives me the heebie jeebies!

    …seriously speaking, it’s obvious you aimed for power while using Ur-Priest. I mean, the name says it all: it’s the ur-priest…erm, that needs more explanation. You know how the term “ur-example” has entered the English lexicon, as in “the first example”. However, it is often misinterpreted as “THE definitive example that has to be given” (which is not wrong; the first example is the one that MUST be given so that something makes sense). The Ur-Priest is not the first priest, but it is THE definitive example…of a prestige class that has great flavor but it’s never used for it, rather being used for power and power alone. What really kicks it in is when you mix the second ingredient of the damned: Mystic Theurge. As you may know, if you’re trying to pull off a proper dual-casting build, one of the classes has to progress faster than the other, and thus Ur-Priest follows that example. I wish Apostle of Peace had the same love, but they have to swear a vow of peace, so…

    Generally, the third and fourth legs of the journey (Bard and Sublime Chord) are expected, so it’s natural to cringe at seeing one-fourth of the expected build (Bard, but as its savage incarnation) also making its appearance. By all means, this is a Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge build without Sublime Chord. That’s as least original as you can get. Now, I would have understood if you had a good class and went with Apostle of Peace for 9th level spells, but unfortunately the theme of the class is evil, so it’s more than expected that you want that quick path to power.

    That could be fixed depending on how well the story is developed, which is where I can see a glimpse of hope. The backstory is filled with..erm, midwifery connotations (phew, that was close), but having a distinct style hearkening to…say, La Celestina (hooray for Spanish Golden Age classics being pretty spicy but also distinctively brutal!), where the character brokers a deal that eventually goes wrong (the “deal with the devil” trope) but specialized towards a single trait (midwifery). However, the story somehow has nothing to deal with the build at all, because we don’t see any idea of how she does combat (other that she leads a group of “wolf-warriors” and that she chants using drums (which would suggest a performing act but also a ritual act that doesn’t require a specific form of performance), much less how that ends up with Ur-Priest or Mystic Theurge. It feels like the story and the build are divorced from each other and need a…well, cupid…to bind back.


    Score: 1.5 (it’s a Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge build without the Sublime Chord. It’s obvious what you’re gunning for, but it’s predictable nonetheless. The story could have rescued it, but didn’t. It’s great on its own, and it has a lot of stuff I like, but it doesn’t feel like it explains the build at all.)

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    Anything that gets 9th level spells (and a decent amount of them) is automatically powerful. Just getting 10 effective levels of Ur-Priest should lead to an automatic 5 to the category, because getting Miracle is as close as getting anything. Adding Mystic Theurge to it means you get even MORE spells, and a whole different variety of them.

    That said…compared to the typical build (Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge), it manages to be weaker. For starters, you sacrifice bard spells to become a Savage Bard, which gets a fraction of ranger and druid spells in replacement of a fraction of the bard’s arcane spells (particularly those that deal with written language, minor tricks, emotional control and detection) for natural spells related to traps, animals and movement. How that is supposed to help the build…well, I believe it’s more the flavor than anything else. I don’t see how summon nature’s ally is better in your case than summon monster, particularly when you don’t care about summoning spells in either case.

    Then we get into how Acolyte of the Skin fits in, and while there’s a strong thematic link to the PrC, there is no instance of power flowing through it. The SLA/SuAs and abilities you get don’t help your build or your story (or perhaps they help your build, but that’s best left for UoSI).

    As another competitor, you went for the “embrace” of an Elder Evil for more (vile) feats, this time with Ragnorra (instead of Pandorym), and what you got…quite frankly, what scares me of all them is Dark Speech, because it’s quite varied and fits the bardic theme nicely. The others are mostly defensive in nature (bonus on saving throws against divine spells, against good spells, and a mini-Death Knell effect if you coup-de-grace the enemy), but aren’t really all that hot (useful if you meet a good divine spellcaster, not so good otherwise) aside from the mini-Death Knell one.


    Score: 4.5 (all I can say is: it gets 9th level spells. That alone makes it supremely powerful. On the other hand, compared to the sheer power of a Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge build, I find it lacking, and the servitude to Ragnorra really doesn’t seem to aid that much.)

    Elegance
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    After seeing so many blunders with early entry, it’s good to see the last few actually work. This one is a great example, having enough Enchantment spells to really matter. At the same time, in case I were another, much more unflinging judge, you offer the alternative of how it should be handled, hurting your build a bit more, but ensuring you get to enter the class nonetheless.

    While there are some entries that are compact and some that are descriptive, and some that claim both, yours happens to be a pretty compact and descriptive one; succinct is the term I’d use, a word whose root happens to resemble (but not equate) that of the succubus that the build’s essence binds with.

    That last comment offers a slight example of the problem I see: being an alteration of a cookie-cutter build, there’s little to remark regarding Elegance. I could speak about how you used Acolyte of the Skin to eventually enter Ur-Priest, or how most of the chosen feats follow a theme, but the build feels very vanilla, nothing that deserves a proper mention. That’s not bad, but it’s not good either.


    Score: 3.5 (it’s a vanilla build, and might seem a tad boring, but it’s succinct where it’s needed. There’s little in where the build can really show off, something that could become exemplary of build-making. Maybe the way you use one PrC to enter another and boost it, maybe…)

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    So Morrigna has made a pact with Malcanthet but really follows Ragnorra…how does this work with Acolyte of the Skin? Is there something that can be drawn from this class?

    For some reason, I think not. I really don’t see the PrC offers anything.

    The first thing that comes to mind as expertly used is how you apply a fast-improving class such as Ur-Priest to advance based on half-casting. That was creative, if I may say so myself, because that means you don’t need classes with all those levels, and you can take advantage of what truly matters without sacrificing spellpower: the class features.

    However, a cursory look reveals that…well, it’s not really the class that would fit the build. For starters, the build starts with poor Dexterity and Constitution, and those boosts really feel as minor. The natural armor also feels minor, and even the DR and ability to turn into an outsider through Alter Self feel minor. Wonder why…? Oh yeah, because Ur-Priest really seems to make that redundant (the DR/good comes MUCH earlier through Righteous Might, for example, and judicious use of Practiced Spellcaster makes it reach the top much earlier).

    The offensive features? Glare of the Pit really doesn’t seem like that powerful compared to others (even if by itself it’s hilariously weak), and Poison/Fiendish Glare doesn’t seem like they are any powerful either…but one thing changes everything. I mean, you’re yet another individual who uses Imperious Command (and nothing else…), but what really chilled me to the bone was Doomspeak. I mean, WHAT IN HEATHENLY TARNATION THEY WERE THINKING OF!? The DC for the ability is based on FULL character level! That’s basically a DC 20 at 10th level! Then, you get a -10 to a lot of things, including saving throws…which both Poison and Fiendish Glare depend on. Sure, it’s a 2-round thing, but if done correctly, you can end up making the class features actually work better, which is a plus. What’s NOT a plus, though, is that it’s not clearly mentioned. That trick would have gotten nice points in Elegance, mind you.

    Oh, yeah, and the Babau that doesn’t work as intended. Though you’re VERY fortunate you can buff that Babau, the fact that you get Planar Ally which essentially invalidates the Babau’s power sorta ruins it (not to mention you get all Summon Monster spells, even though the Babau counts as a 7th level summon…yeah, right). No focus on boosting these summoned entities, either, which could have helped the Babau even more.

    However, the biggest offense is how the build doesn’t seem to need Acolyte of the Skin in any case. The build really felt like it could use another PrC, but the book was not allowed. The way Morrigna works, it reeks of having stuff drawn from the Book of Erotic Fantasy, but of course that’s not allowed. The story could have saved it (particularly how and why Malcanthet agreed to make a pact with Morrigna when the latter doesn’t give a darn because she follows someone else, and even wears the skin of her daughters/servants but doesn’t care about her appearance), but the way the story was written, I could have seen some other PrC (and the wealth of options in that book) take the levels Acolyte of the Skin occupy.


    Score: 1.5 (really, of all the builds, this is the one that least feels like needing Acolyte of the Skin. You made a good effort to address some of the options, but the build could have gone better with some levels in another PrC. The story saved the choices of other builds, but in your case, that event didn’t happen)

    Overall: 11 (2.75)
    I won’t lie; the build showed some promise before I got deep into it. However, between just redressing a well-known build and forcing fluff without making that much sense, the build faltered. The name and the image are quite impressive in first place, but I wasn’t truly satisfied with the end result. It is quite probably one of the most powerful builds in the entire competition; it didn’t made the proper use of the secret ingredient, though, and relied on a well-known build to focus on power without providing enough twists to make it original enough or explain why such a difficult ingredient was necessary. Show it to me again after you read the BoEF and tell me whether Acolyte of the Skin was a good choice compared to the wealth of content the book offers a midwife character.


    --

    Alright, for the final pointers:
    I really felt disappointed that there were some attempts to make a martial Acolyte, but all of them, IMO, failed dismally. The best entry points were those who used spellcasting classes, but as you may see, not all of them have to be sorcerers, wizards or warlocks (one WAS a Sorcerer, but darned I'll be if I didn't prized going into Malconvoker!). I really felt disappointed because those who attempted a warrior-type sometimes had the right idea, but for some reason they couldn't take much advantage.

    Another thing I saw a LOT was the plague of Imperious Command. It's evident that Imperious Command, with its "cower 1st round, shaken next few rounds" blends well with Fiendish Glare. I feel other judges will either prize or punish the proliferation of builds with that feat, but I tried my best to judge each by the merits they achieve with the feat. It's obvious that Fiendish Glare is the best ability by far of the PrC, even better than the capstone.

    What really disappointed me was that few people paid attention and tried to boost Glare of the Pit. I'm especially disappointed that one build had the perfect trick for this ability and, IMO, just blew it. It's essentially a poor nova blast ability, but some builds showed that only one or two bits of extra effort could make it a nice damage option or even (despite me having to point that out), a brutal debuff ability. I mean, if Reykja and Wyrmbeard were to tag out, the combo of Slow Breath + Oil + double Glare of the Pit + Pyrotechnics would be frickin' hilarious!

    Now, for my final bit...here's how everything ended up in Word. Sorry if I burst your bubble, Fiddler, but the results were much lower than expected...
    Pages: 36
    Words: 23,344
    Characters (no spaces): 109,051
    Characters (with spaces): 132,118
    Paragraphs: 271
    Lines: 1,683

    ...alright, you can speak now. Was I too full of vitriol, or was it a fun read? Hehe, fun read...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar
    However, you get Draconic Polymorph. The ability to turn into a frickin’ dragon.
    Draconic polymorph doesn't work that way. polymorph already lets you turn into a dragon. Draconic polymorph just gives you a +8 to str and +2 to con for your polymorphed form.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Perhaps you should tone down the vitrol a bit, not all of us prepared Resist Energy this morning (or have Rings of Acid Immunity).
    Illumian Dread Necromancer Lich avatar by Tinymushroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Really wish we won't have so much fear stacking in the next ingredient. It has become so very frequent in IC it's almost boring.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Really wish we won't have so much fear stacking in the next ingredient. It has become so very frequent in IC it's almost boring.
    While I do agree with you, I believe that chefs this time around gravitated towards it to take care that one of acolyte's few class features didn't seem neglected or ignored. I don't think it's particularly likely to change in general, but if the next IC doesn't have a fear ability or intimidate as a class skill, it's unlikely to see much use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Responses to the first judge:

    1.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rag and Bone Man
    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar
    It’s twice as nice that the theme of your build, and the fiend you took the skin from, is actually a relative of a Chain Devil, so bonus points for that thematic link. However, aside from that, the Chain Devil will feel like a mook to your best undead minions, particularly once Vile Death comes on-line at 20th level. Given that you have a few summoning spells, you could have found a way to boost summoning in such a way that you could end up with a menacing Kyton as a pal
    I noted specifically in the table for my build (and in the backstory) that the Rag and Bone Man's skin came from a chain devil.

    From this and the rest of the write-up on the rag and bone man, it seems as though there is some confusion over "kyton" and "chain devil" being two monsters instead different names for the same creature

    So the suggestion of "ending up with a menacing kyton as a pal" is exactly what acolyte does for the rag and bone man, since it enables summoning a chain devil (kyton) as a SLA.

    Dread necromancer's planar binding spell, which he did take notice of, also allows calling a chain devil (along with other bigger, more powerful monsters) getting him as a "pal" since he's under the spell's 12HD cap, only possessing 8HD.
    2. For Ash'okk Larr, T.G. Oskar notes that Skarn are "by definition, Lawful" when this definition does not match the wording in Magic of Incarnum, where they are noted as "usually lawful. . . Chaotic Skarns are nevertheless tolerated and even welcomed in Skarn society"(p.16). The Originality deduction here appears based on a faulty premise and on a qualm with Elegance; the Chairman asks that the score be re-evaluated on that basis.

    3. I'd like to ask judges to refrain from comments like "If I could, I'd make a better Acolyte of the Skin for you" (quoting a comment under Eshpaunsuud Zhirvaush's judgment); regardless of intent, it reads as "I could have done a better job than you did," which is contrary to the spirit the competition is trying to engender.

    4. Next competition won't have a fear-stacking component built into the SI.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-09-04 at 08:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Thank goodness! Can we have a SI that makes people happy instead?
    Illumian Dread Necromancer Lich avatar by Tinymushroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

    Blood~

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSerpent View Post
    Thank goodness! Can we have a SI that makes people happy instead?
    Let us be realistic.

    There is no perfect ingredient.

    Irrespective of what is selected, *someone* will not be 100% happy.

    Thankfully the chairman's make good selections anyway, even if they aren't to everyone's taste.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSerpent View Post
    Thank goodness! Can we have a SI that makes people happy instead?
    What would you like to play next round? I'm just tickled pink that we finally got acolyte. thanks again, amph, you're the best.

    how about bloodhound? that one is pretty cool in a western type game. I'd ask for justiciar, but I think its hogtie ability makes it a little too useful for iron chef.

    I'd love urban soul, that's a class that I always thought had great potential but was too weird to use very effectively

    I honestly have no idea what the next SI will be. if I had to guess, I'd say primeval (I'd be jazzed for that) since there was talk of it earlier.

    any hints? if so, that's cool. if not, it makes speculating more challenging.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    any hints? if so, that's cool. if not, it makes speculating more challenging.
    It has no casting level whatsoever.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    It has no casting level whatsoever.
    oh ho! that narrows it down considerably. it also means bloodhound, urban soul, and primeval are all still on the table!

    also means more variety from contestants, honestly, and that's pretty exciting.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonRoach View Post
    Let us be realistic.

    There is no perfect ingredient.

    Irrespective of what is selected, *someone* will not be 100% happy.

    Thankfully the chairman's make good selections anyway, even if they aren't to everyone's taste.
    No, I meant happy as in "makes people IC happy". Also, no casting level... that will make it a touch easier on me for IC no. 2!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

    Blood~

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSerpent View Post
    No, I meant happy as in "makes people IC happy". Also, no casting level... that will make it a touch easier on me for IC no. 2!
    oh great, was this your first one? congrats! i remember I had a lot of fun back in shadowdancer. I hope you do well this time and next time.

    what're you hoping for? do you have a specific ingredient you'd like to see? it never hurts to ask, it was how we got acolyte, after all.
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Tallies After One Judge

    {table=head]Entry|Place|Total|Average
    The Sacred Demon|Gold|19|4.75
    The Rag and Bone Man|Silver|18.5|4.625
    Captain Wyrmbeard|Bronze|17.75|4.4375
    Luc|Fourth|14.5|3.625
    Eshpaunsuud Zhirvaush|Fifth|13|3.25
    Reykja Skjar|Sixth|11.5|2.875
    Mother Morrigna|Seventh|11|2.75
    Baby the Bearbarian|Eighth|9.25|2.3125
    Bloody Hands Butcher|Ninth|9|2.25
    Ash'okk Lar|Tenth|7|1.75[/table]

    Thanks, TG! You've given us plenty to read while waiting for any other judges. Speaking of, do we have any other judges with scores in the works?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Really wish we won't have so much fear stacking in the next ingredient. It has become so very frequent in IC it's almost boring.
    I second that emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Next competition won't have a fear-stacking component built into the SI.
    Excellent news!

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSerpent View Post
    Thank goodness! Can we have a SI that makes people happy instead?
    :goes to the splatbooks looking for 10-level PrCs that summons puppies and rainbows:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    It has no casting level whatsoever.
    Hmm, so it's not obscure (I'm guessing Core or Core + Completes, doesn't have any fear abilities (but does it have Intimidate as a class skill?), and has no casting progression...I feel like this is the most hints we've been given about a Secret Ingredient.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Hmm... there's a lot of cool prestige classes that could fit the bill, but what about Horizon Walker? Not obscure at all, although certainly not an optimized PrC, and it has no fear elements. It does technically have a caster level for the Shifting terrain mastery, though, so probably not.

    It could also be a psionic class, since it doesn't have any CASTER levels. That could be a lot of fun.

    But personally? It's specific enough that I doubt we'll ever see it, but I'd like to push for Eye of Gruumsh. I don't know why - I don't have any great ideas to go along with it or anything. It's just such a mess, I can't help but want to see it get some IC love.
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  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Hmm... there's a lot of cool prestige classes that could fit the bill, but what about Horizon Walker? Not obscure at all, although certainly not an optimized PrC, and it has no fear elements. It does technically have a caster level for the Shifting terrain mastery, though, so probably not.

    It could also be a psionic class, since it doesn't have any CASTER levels. That could be a lot of fun.

    But personally? It's specific enough that I doubt we'll ever see it, but I'd like to push for Eye of Gruumsh. I don't know why - I don't have any great ideas to go along with it or anything. It's just such a mess, I can't help but want to see it get some IC love.
    I like eye of gruumsh.

    zerth cenobite sucks in just the right way for IC, but still mind severely limits entry
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    I'm thinking kensai. Very unique with 2 different shticks and multiple ways to make use of those shticks. It would be a welcome break after the bunch of 1/day SLA Prc's that amph has been giving us.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by 123456789blaaa View Post
    I'm thinking kensai. Very unique with 2 different shticks and multiple ways to make use of those shticks. It would be a welcome break after the bunch of 1/day SLA Prc's that amph has been giving us.
    that would be cool! I know what I'd do for that. that would be quite the challenge. their bonus to str with concentration thing seems like there'd be a lot of cool tricks to optimize it
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Kensai has intimidate shenanigans, doesn't it?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Kensai has intimidate shenanigans, doesn't it?
    sure does. I don't really know if a bonus to the skill check qualifies as "fear stacking" though.

    I'd never noticed the "withstand" ability before. that seems pretty handy, if not exactly game-breaking. Why on earth is this class not full BA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Early 3.5, Designers thought Full BAB was equal or at least comparable to Magic, so it makes some sense they would limit the BAB of a class that could emulate a bit of magic.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Early 3.5, Designers thought Full BAB was equal or at least comparable to Magic, so it makes some sense they would limit the BAB of a class that could emulate a bit of magic.
    My reaction upon hearing this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXVI

    I'd guess the decision behind kensai being an average BAB class has something to do with the fact that it gets an in-class str boosting option with no usage limit beyond a player's ability to optimize concentrate, and the ability to get what would otherwise be a weapon of epic monetary cost before level 15 essentially for free.

    I honestly think it was a solid design choice, but that's just my opinion.
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