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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Yea, Forceful evolution doesn't actually say damage there [from what I can read], however assuming that it is damage, no one would sacrifice several levels of HP to give someone else evolution points. Unless they give them to itself, as they can self embrace/assimilate/or be otherwise, and they technically controll themself...
    You might want to make a clause that the swarmlord cant self improve, unless you allow that [However Improving constitution may grant more HP than is used, up until they hit the cap as to how many evolution points they can spend on one ability.]

    Also [For Lix], How does Spirit Force interact with the Swarmlord Manifesting, does it stack to impove it as if they where psions, or does it give them a additional pool to draw from?
    Last edited by Erik Vale; 2013-03-18 at 06:05 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Might want to phrase it as reducing maximum HP instead of as never-recoverable damage. It comes to the same thing for conventional usage, but calling it never-recoverable damage opens up exploits regarding things that can only be used when below a certain percentage of your max HP (I'm sure there must be something) and allows it to be mitigated by having an ally around to give you temporary HP right before you take it.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    Also [For Lix], How does Spirit Force interact with the Swarmlord Manifesting, does it stack to impove it as if they where psions, or does it give them a additional pool to draw from?
    The latter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Might want to phrase it as reducing maximum HP instead of as never-recoverable damage. It comes to the same thing for conventional usage, but calling it never-recoverable damage opens up exploits regarding things that can only be used when below a certain percentage of your max HP (I'm sure there must be something) and allows it to be mitigated by having an ally around to give you temporary HP right before you take it.
    Oh, That...might get scary, Well, glad you pointed that out before I submited it to a Powergamer for homebrew review.

    [QUOTE=Erik Vale;14920340]Yea, Forceful evolution doesn't actually say damage there [from what I can read],nope, not said. however assuming that it is damage, no one would sacrifice several levels of HP I would, being as though my swarms are going to be attacking, and i'm going to be in my nice fortress.to give someone else evolution points. Unless they give them to itself, as they can self embrace/assimilate/or be otherwise, and they technically controll themself...
    You might want to make a clause that the swarmlord cant self improve, unless you allow that [However Improving constitution may grant more HP than is used, up until they hit the cap as to how many evolution points they can spend on one ability.]
    [/QUOTE



    [QUOTE=Lix Lorn;14919969]Hmm. Well, as an Epic PrC, it doesn't need BAB or saves.
    I use Realms of Chaos Explanation.

    Enhanced Swarm seems like an odd way to do it. They already gain points from each level...
    They do, but that adds more.
    The problem with giving more Adaptions is that there may or may not be enough adaptions to support epic play.
    Yeah, that be the only problem.
    AD! Coming soon with Shady-brew, More Swarmlord adaptions!
    'This Fortress is Mine' and 'Swarm of Terror' are badass epic adaptions!
    Heh, I made the Terror to annoy the heck out of one guy whose main idea of attacking IS knowledge, So That...will be fun.

    The problem with the other two is, adaptions are meant to improve the Swarmlord herself, or the swarm as a whole, rather than granting power to specific members of the swarm.[/QUOTE
    I can kind of understand that, but IMO, Infested really seem like a waste of HD when you have a lot, and fluff wise, It could be that the Infested are'nt Strong enough to handle the power.

    Quote broken for bold.

    Oh yeah, i forgot to add something, is that there is One thing in the Tyranid Codex that you can't make; The Tervigon
    Last edited by ShadowFireLance; 2013-03-18 at 09:10 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Your infested should never really be a legitimate threat to things of your level. They should be the massive swarm of weak minions.

    As for the tervigon, I've already said why that's hard, although I really should get to writing that evolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Your infested should never really be a legitimate threat to things of your level. They should be the massive swarm of weak minions.

    As for the tervigon, I've already said why that's hard, although I really should get to writing that evolution.
    I have my own take on it, mayhaps you get a idea?

    Minion horde
    Each point in this ability adds one Disposable Minion, with 3 Hp, 10 AC, and All stats except mental at 10, and mental at INT 1 Wis 1 Cha 1, That can be spawned in each round, when they attack, they automaticaly explode, dealing (Number of points/4) D6 Damage.
    The so Created Minions last for a number of rounds equal to the "Parent"'s Con Score/2 To a max of 5 rounds, at which point they dissolve into a pile of inert flesh, you may only create a number of minions equal to triple Con score of parent, destroyed Minions may not be replaced for 24 Hours, And require 1 Pound of food to replace each Minion (Or energy, Or something, If you do not eat)
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    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Hmm. Disposable minions are an interesting way to do it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Hmm. Disposable minions are an interesting way to do it...
    Though, Termagaunts aren't exactly Disposable, but I think something like every 10 points placed in it, They gain 1HD?
    "All things must end, and you will be among the first."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymme View Post
    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    So Lix Lorn, I was requested to do a bloodline specifically made for this class but before so I shall ask your approval since I will be using your material :)
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Sounds cool to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Just figured I'd make sure :)
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Cerebrate
    {table=head] Level |
    Minor
    |
    Intermediate
    |
    Major

    1 | | | +2 on intimidate checks
    2 | | +2 on intimidate checks| I am the swarm...
    3 | | | +1 charisma
    4 | +2 on intimidate checks| I am the swarm...| I am the swarm...
    5 | | | Swarmlord affinity +2
    6 | | +1 charisma| Obey the hive...
    7 | | | +2 on psicraft checks
    8 | I am the swarm...| I am the swarm| Obey the hive...
    9 | | | +1 constitution
    10 | | Swarmlord affinity +2| I am the swarm....
    11 | | | Swarmlord affinity +4
    12 | +1 charisma| Obey the hive...| Ultimate evolution
    13 | | | +2 on concentration checks
    14 | | +2 on psicraft checks| I am the swarm...
    15 | | | +1 intelligence
    16 | I am the swarm...| Obey the hive...| Obey the hive...
    17 | | | Swarmlord affinity +6
    18 | | +1 constitution| Obey the hive...
    19 | | | +2 on all knowledge checks
    20 | Swarmlord affinity +2| I am the swarm...| Ultimate evolution
    [/table]

    I am the swarm...
    As a Cerebrate grows in level, it grows in power. Every time I am the swarm... shows up, they get 2 bonus evolution points that may be either added to her swarm or herself

    Obey the hive...
    As the cerebrate grows in level, its swarm becomes more to her whim and does her every command...and so do other people. The cerebrate gets 3 extra power points added to her pool each time this comes up

    Ultimate evolution
    you may pick one adaptation from the swarmlord list that you meet the prerequisites for, you gain it immediately. Once this is picked, it cannot be changed

    Ok so...thoughts?

    P.S. this is also in my bloodlines thread where it was requested by Shadow :)
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Looks good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    no changes?
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Well, I'd alternate the Obey the Hive and the I Am The Swarm bits, and try to have them have an effect for people who don't take swarmlord.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    they are alternating AA BB AA BB

    and for the I am the swarm... you can add the points to yourself

    and for the obey the swarm, just take psion :)
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Yeah... 8 Evolution points aren't really worth mentioning [perhaps gaining a swarmling as a companion, oh wait, level 0 swarmlord...], and 9 power points are ganted, a single level 5 power... Which the bloodline gives no access to.

    Bonus to intimidate doesn't make sense given Gentle queen, especially as intimidate is the granted ability of the bloodline. What at that point is scary about them? [I personally play mine as people who persuade them to recieve something that will empower them, telempathic projection and attraction power use optional, with the possibility of saying: I'll trade this much work [trivial amount of safe stuff] for a permanent and rather useful power boost.] Of course, gentle queen is kinda neccessary to avoid the whole destroy the soul thing, meaning that that is your level 3 feat.
    Knowledge makes more sense, however Bonus int makes no sense as their manifesting is from charsima. Concentration bonus makes sense [all the chittering/the hive mind], psicraft a little less so but understandable.

    I would suggest more along the lines of the Xenoalchemist Bloodling [Emmergent Atrocity], making it so that the bloodline grants some useful perks for a swarmlord [stat bonuses, bonus evolution points and power points are nice], while being able to stand alone. Such as granting a single power, or a effective swarmlord level for the purposes of the bloodline. Also, if your going to grant power/evolution points, 8 by level 20 is not worth the levels given up by any stretch of the imagination.
    Last edited by Erik Vale; 2013-03-19 at 01:58 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Agreed.
    I'd use Diplomacy, Sense Motive, or perhaps Autohypnosis as the skill.
    My OCD side would always use ABAB over AABB, but that's minor.
    I'd consider giving them psionic and evolution point progression of some kind. Make I Am The Swarm... give one effective swarmlord level for swarmlings and evo point, and Obey the hive... give +2 cha for the purposes of bonus PP/evo points.
    (I'd also make the Swarmlord Affinity apply to all swarm beings, with a clause that specifies it needs to be at least a similarly fluffed swarm. So a zerg could use the affinity to talk with a tyranid, but not with the weird Selesnyan cult crunched as a swarm.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Do you all know what would make this class Epic beyond what it already is? Well, do you?
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    Well, then, let me tell you.
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    What if you could make Slivers with this class?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymme View Post
    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    shadow, how do ye like yer bloodline?
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    shadow, how do ye like yer bloodline?
    It's pretty awesome, I forgot exactly how the bloodlines built off of classes worked, so that is a farily awesome reminder of it.
    "All things must end, and you will be among the first."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymme View Post
    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    I actually have no idea either, this was a shot in the dark, its my first class bloodline ;)
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFireLance View Post
    Do you all know what would make this class Epic beyond what it already is? Well, do you?
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    Well, then, let me tell you.
    Spoiler
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    What if you could make Slivers with this class?
    Then the world ends with a whimper.

    Cool for a villain or a solo campaign, pretty much literally impossible to balance for group play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Hey, I read through, and I was wondering how one might make a prestige class or class feature based off drones and making buildings.
    Last edited by pieman2945; 2013-03-28 at 11:11 PM.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by pieman2945 View Post
    Hey, I read through, and I was wondering how one might make a prestige class or class feature based off drones and making buildings.
    I am working my ass off on that one, and it's a lot harder then you would think to make it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymme View Post
    You've got good reasoning, though the Akastarepti is never the best example.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    If you would like any help, I might be able to try.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by pieman2945 View Post
    Hey, I read through, and I was wondering how one might make a prestige class or class feature based off drones and making buildings.
    I made one based on the drones from Sins of a Solar Empire, if that counts. Can't promise buildings though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Question [While I think of it. Minor thing, I probably wouldn't take Swarmlord as anything but pure unless I was entering late or there was a prestige class I wanted to play with], would you be opposed to the making of a feat similar to focused manifestor but acting for swarmlings, evolution points and/or HD cap?

    I'm thinking along the lines of: Given over to the Hive. The feat wording could well be a rip word for word from Practiced Manifestor/Spellcaster but mentioning Evolutionpoints/Swarmlings/HD Cap instead of spell-casting.
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  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    I'd call it Practiced Swarmleader, but yeah, seems fine to me.
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  30. - Top - End - #330
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    I'll be testing this class in an upcoming game. I'll post thoughts soon enough. :)

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