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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Well, you don't actually get a feat between level 4 and 6, so you'd have to take it at 6 anyway xD
    Then probably it would be best as an Evolution, since it seems to fit the theme better.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I return with more comments. After reading the abilities, I found a couple of weird mechanics and game-breaking abilities. Here are a compilation of those I found :
    This can, potentially, increase the mental ability scores. Since it's probably not intended, you may add ''These mental ability scores are a cap ; if the base creature has lower ability scores, they doesn't increase''.
    While it's odd, it's intended. They should have those specific scores. It's not their mind anymore.

    Evolutions-specific comments :
    As written, this doesn't affect the HD of creatures gained after the ability is selected. You also forgot to mention what kind of HD (Magical beast? Aberration?), not mentioning it improves non-mindless servants, which is something the DM and/or other PC may not like.
    Intentional. If it boosts future ones, you can infest something of your level and make it stronger.
    It adds HD that you already have.

    Overpowered ; this is one of the few evolutions that greatly improve the swarmlord, and it also increase her minions.
    Same problem. If you removed Resist, the Ironscale evolution would (probably) be balanced.
    I disagree. It's not a combative class as is. And the size will make you easier to hit.

    I'm not sure why it evolve with level. An ability that increase by level must be intended for use in an indefinitely high level of play. After an indefinite amount of time, an epic swarmlord can exceed the speed of light. Also, there is no manoeuvrability after ''perfect''. You don't have to be high-epic to have a better manoeuvrability than perfect. Sky Swarm is one of the few evolution that improves with level (there should be none).
    There SHOULD be? I disagree. Any ability that isn't an instantaneous, unscalable boost should scale.

    Then again, same problem. No evolution should improve with level. Especially not something that grant more attacks. I mean, a 200th level swarmlord has 42 natural weapons? For a single evolution?
    I am not balancing for level 200.

    About the swarmling : what is the formula for evolution points? At some levels, the swarmling gains 3, at others it gains 13, with apparently no real formula.
    Complicated, since I kept changing it. They gain 1 at level 2, 3 at 3, 3 at 4, 5 at 5, and each second level, the gain increases by two. This is by no means final.

    Why is it +7 Int? Why not +6 or +8?
    Whoops.
    it WAS 7 because they had Int 3, to give them a round ten. Since I realised they needed Int 2, that should have gone up.

    This will be my last comment for today ; I'm going to read the enhancements. May I suggest one that grant a permanent Detect Psionics effect?
    Ooh, might work.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Final_Stand View Post
    Maths Correction: There is an iterative formula to determine the number of EP a Swarmling gets at a certain level. Someone better at maths and/or not sleepy could probably simplify it.

    Spoiler
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    F(N) = F(N-1) + 2(Ceiling{[N-2]/2}) + 1
    F(0) = 5
    Where Ceiling(X) means "Round X in the positive direction" and the fancy brackets are to make reading easier.

    Or, in English, at hypothetical level 0 (Iterative formulas always start at 0. If you want, imagine F(1) = 6 instead), you have 5 EP. At each odd level, gain that level in EP. At each even level, gain that number of EP - 1.


    Oh, and incidentally, Lix, the unholy 3.5m psychic snake thing that is the Zoanthrope is not what I would describe as "Small".

    And now I have in my head a theoretical "Norm Queen" Epic Prestige class that controls massive organisms and massive swarms at the expense of personal combat/psychic might and oh gods I'm thinking this in depth about homebrew for a game I don't even play and an army I don't play either.
    ...why is it not just going up by one every level...

    True, but they gain nothing and lose quite a bit from being Medium or larger. :P

    See, the problem is that if I give their minions enough power and enough numbers to do a proper swarm, they'll annoy the rest of the party (and be incredibly OP)
    Just assume tyranids and zerg are both led by ridonkulously epic Swarmlords. :P
    Speaking of, I need to create a 'Spawn' evolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Complicated, since I kept changing it. They gain 1 at level 2, 3 at 3, 3 at 4, 5 at 5, and each second level, the gain increases by two. This is by no means final.


    ...why is it not just going up by one every level...
    Well, that would result in it having 10 more ep at level 20.

    On Infestation Queen, perhaps let it apply to future spawn, but note it can't increase the HD of a swarm beyond what the highest HD you can infest, assimilate, etc. is. If it would do so, it instead waits until that would not exceed your cap.

    On Pinnacle Swarm, I'd suggest the possibility of having it taken more than once, but not allow selecting the same evolution more than once.

    On This Land is Mine, I'd suggest changing the wording of "which will infest everything around it for 20ft/class level within an hour/class level" to "which will infest everything within a radius of 20ft/class level at a rate of the radius increasing by 20ft/hour."

    A possible thought, is the option to form mobs with your minions to reduce things slowing down too much (the link is to a revised version of the template in the DMGII, though there are likely other versions or methods).

    Size Change should note that you can't use both the size increase and size decrease on the same creature (since it would just result in +2 Str and +2 Dex for 3 points, making it better than the 8 points that would be needed if you were using Enhanced Ability).

    Also, perhaps an either an evolution or some just some options for evolution points that allow minions to be enhanced even further when on infested land (either specific options, or something more general such as being able to spend 1 less point, minimum one, on abilities, but they only grant the benefits while on infested land).

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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, that would result in it having 10 more ep at level 20.
    I can cope with that.

    On Infestation Queen, perhaps let it apply to future spawn, but note it can't increase the HD of a swarm beyond what the highest HD you can infest, assimilate, etc. is. If it would do so, it instead waits until that would not exceed your cap.
    Hmmmm. That could work.

    On Pinnacle Swarm, I'd suggest the possibility of having it taken more than once, but not allow selecting the same evolution more than once.
    Ooh, good point.

    On This Land is Mine, I'd suggest changing the wording of "which will infest everything around it for 20ft/class level within an hour/class level" to "which will infest everything within a radius of 20ft/class level at a rate of the radius increasing by 20ft/hour."
    My mistake!

    A possible thought, is the option to form mobs with your minions to reduce things slowing down too much (the link is to a revised version of the template in the DMGII, though there are likely other versions or methods).
    Ew.
    It's possible that there's a better version, but I think I disagree with the purpose itself. A high level character SHOULD slaughter masses of minions. That's how heroic stories work.

    Size Change should note that you can't use both the size increase and size decrease on the same creature (since it would just result in +2 Str and +2 Dex for 3 points, making it better than the 8 points that would be needed if you were using Enhanced Ability).
    Whoops. Good idea.

    Also, perhaps an either an evolution or some just some options for evolution points that allow minions to be enhanced even further when on infested land (either specific options, or something more general such as being able to spend 1 less point, minimum one, on abilities, but they only grant the benefits while on infested land).
    Oh wow. I meant to put that in. In fact, I know an easy way to do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    There SHOULD be? I disagree. Any ability that isn't an instantaneous, unscalable boost should scale.
    Then we can come with a compromise. Why not allow to take Sky Swarm more than once? My first suggestion would be to increase flight speed by 20 feet and manoeuvrability by one point every time after the first, with a maximum manoeuvrability of perfect (you could also put this manoeuvrability limit with Movement (flight)). In this case, the ability would no longer be scalable.
    I am not balancing for level 200.
    If you don't want the class to go into epic, I'd ask you why you made something so awesome in the first place?
    I disagree. It's not a combative class as is. And the size will make you easier to hit.
    You may think it's not a combative class, but it has d8 hit dices, a 3/4 BAB progression, and the Blades of the Queen class feature, along with the swarmling (that can be made into a brawler) and the Lord Above, Ironscales and Weapons of the Queen evolutions. As it is, it is a combative class. With psionic powers and countless minions.
    Hive Node
    Three points in this ability allow the Swarmling to function as if within Hive Mind range at all times. More points than this allow the Swarmling to control other members of the swarm as if it were a Swarmlord of class level equal to the number of points in this ability minus three.
    Do you realise that this ability is... weird when used with Pinnacle Swarm? This allow the swarmling to control the swarm as if it has one more level than its master swarmlord.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-24 at 03:25 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Then we can come with a compromise. Why not allow to take Sky Swarm more than once? My first suggestion would be to increase flight speed by 20 feet and manoeuvrability by one point every time after the first, with a maximum manoeuvrability of perfect (you could also put this manoeuvrability limit with Movement (flight)). In this case, the ability would no longer be scalable.
    ...that's not really a compromise.
    I want it to scale.

    If you don't want the class to go into epic, I'd ask you why you made something so awesome in the first place?
    At level 200, you're not playing d&d anymore. If you can play that without it being rocket tag, you are freeform RPing with a handful of dice for flavour.

    You may think it's not a combative class, but it has d8 hit dices, a 3/4 BAB progression, and the Blades of the Queen class feature, along with the swarmling (that can be made into a brawler) and the Lord Above, Ironscales and Weapons of the Queen evolutions. As it is, it is a combative class. With psionic powers and countless minions.
    d8 hit dice, 3/4 BAB, and weapons. Before evolutions, she's strictly and majorly worse than a fighter. I don't think being one size larger is that major a boost.

    Do you realise that this ability is... weird when used with Pinnacle Swarm? This allow the swarmling to control the swarm as if it has one more level than its master swarmlord.
    Lol, that is weird. I like the idea of a very combative swarmlord who leaves the actual swarm control to her minions though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Ew.
    It's possible that there's a better version, but I think I disagree with the purpose itself. A high level character SHOULD slaughter masses of minions. That's how heroic stories work.
    Well, the purpose was to allow the player to more easily manage all their minions without it slowing the game too much, not to make them overwhelm high level enemies more than they would played normally. As mentioned, one of the main problems with minion master type characters is all the minion bog down gameplay. Being able to combine large numbers into what is effectively one creature with the power of all of them makes that easier to deal with.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Ahhhh. That's a fair point, but I'm basically assuming that infested will not be kept with the party, simply because they'll die to 'most anything AoE.

    Also that particular writeup makes me curl up in a ball and cry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Nice.
    Just something I thought: If you wanted, you could alter the fluff on this to play it as a psionic Necromancer.
    But really, why play that when you can SPAWN MOAR OVERLORDS!
    Which is all I think of when I read embrace.

    An Extra Evolution feat might be in order, to provide more things to do with your feats than just psionic stuff.
    Last edited by Drynwyn; 2012-08-24 at 07:37 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Might be a good idea. Not sure. Some of the evolutions are stronger than feats. xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    ...that's not really a compromise.
    I want it to scale.
    Then I'd suggest the following modifications :
    Lord Above
    This ability greatly increases the size of the Swarmlord. She increases by one size category, gaining +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex and the standard size based changes to attack and skill rolls. These ability scores are instead of the usual changes to ability scores.
    This is better than the Size Change swarmling evolution. I'd suggest to make the benefits the same than 3 points in Size Change. This would also allow you a Size Reducted swarm.
    Sky Swarm
    This ability grants a Swarmlord great wings, or some other means of aerial propulsion. She gains a flight speed of 30ft (Average), +10ft for each five levels she possesses, and increasing in manoeuvrability by one stage for each ten levels she possesses.
    Suggested rewording (the benefit for the swarm doesn't change) :
    Spoiler
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    Sky Swarm
    This ability grants a Swarmlord great wings, or some other means of aerial propulsion. She gains a flight speed which depends of her swarmlord level :
    Level | Flight speed | Manoeuvrability
    4-9 | 30 ft. | Average
    10-14 | 40 ft. | Good
    15-19 | 50 ft. | Good
    20 | 60 ft. | Perfect
    The flight speed and manoeuvrability doesn't increase after the 20th level.

    Weapons of the Queen
    This ability grants vastly improved weapons to the Queen. She may gain an additional natural weapon for each five levels she possesses, and she may grant an enhancement bonus to each of her weapons equal to a third of her class level. Points of enhancement bonus may be traded for special abilities, and the enhancement bonus may not surpass 5.

    Taking this ability gives each Swarmling she possesses up to two free points in the Additional/Enhanced Natural Weapon evolution, which don’t count towards their cap.
    Suggested rewording (then again, swarm's benefit doesn't change) :
    Spoiler
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    Weapons of the Queen
    This ability grants vastly improved weapons to the Queen. She gains an effective enhancement bonus to her natural weapons equal to one third of her level (rounded down). This bonus can be spend on weapon properties, but the real enhancement bonus can't exceed +5. She also gain more natural weapons, as with the Blade of the Queen class feature, according to her level :
    Level | Additional natural weapons
    4-9 | 1
    10-14 | 2
    15-19 | 3
    20 | 4
    She doesn't gain more natural weapons after the 20th level.


    About swarmling evolutions, I noted an apparent flaw in Size Change : due to the wording, the +1 to natural armor seem to stack with the increase in size. Is this intentional?

    While it's odd, it's intended. They should have those specific scores. It's not their mind anymore.
    Then why 10 Cha? How does the act of being a member of the swarm increase by +9 the Charisma of a zombie?

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Then I'd suggest the following modifications :

    This is better than the Size Change swarmling evolution. I'd suggest to make the benefits the same than 3 points in Size Change. This would also allow you a Size Reducted swarm.
    Suggested rewording (the benefit for the swarm doesn't change) :
    Spoiler
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    Sky Swarm
    This ability grants a Swarmlord great wings, or some other means of aerial propulsion. She gains a flight speed which depends of her swarmlord level :
    Level | Flight speed | Manoeuvrability
    4-9 | 30 ft. | Average
    10-14 | 40 ft. | Good
    15-19 | 50 ft. | Good
    20 | 60 ft. | Perfect
    The flight speed and manoeuvrability doesn't increase after the 20th level.


    Suggested rewording (then again, swarm's benefit doesn't change) :
    Spoiler
    Show
    Weapons of the Queen
    This ability grants vastly improved weapons to the Queen. She gains an effective enhancement bonus to her natural weapons equal to one third of her level (rounded down). This bonus can be spend on weapon properties, but the real enhancement bonus can't exceed +5. She also gain more natural weapons, as with the Blade of the Queen class feature, according to her level :
    Level | Additional natural weapons
    4-9 | 1
    10-14 | 2
    15-19 | 3
    20 | 4
    She doesn't gain more natural weapons after the 20th level.


    About swarmling evolutions, I noted an apparent flaw in Size Change : due to the wording, the +1 to natural armor seem to stack with the increase in size. Is this intentional?
    You're coming at this at cross purposes from me. I want things to scale, I want them to keep doing so post 20th level, and Swarmlord Evolutions are meant to be better than the Swarmling's equivalents.

    Then why 10 Cha? How does the act of being a member of the swarm increase by +9 the Charisma of a zombie?
    Valid question!
    It's no longer a shambling abomination that exists only to feed on brains. It is still ugly and rotting, but it's not really a zombie anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Thoughts:
    I really like the idea behind this class, and the execution of many of the concepts. The evolution abilities are also generally clever.
    After taking this and making some swarmlings, which after all are some of the coolest stuff this class gets, I did find that the wording of several of the EP costs meant that there meaning was confusing. Thoughts on each of the abilities is as follows:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    At second level, and each subsequent even level, the Swarmling gains an additional Magical Beast HD, and the concurrent increases to saves, base attack bonus, feat progression, skills (if they have the necessary Int), and bonus ability point at each fourth level.

    Where marked in the table, the Swarmling increases his Natural Armor by the amount shown.

    At second level, and each third level thereafter, the Swarmling may increase any of his ability scores by one. This is in addition to the increase gained at each fourth hit die.
    This ability seems good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Additional/Enhanced Natural Weapon
    A single point in this ability grants one additional natural weapon. Each additional weapon costs one point more than the previous. (Therefore, two additional weapons cost 1+2=3 points.)
    These weapons are secondary natural weapons. For an additional two points spent on a single weapon, it may be considered primary.
    This part of the ability is useful, and adds decent power to the swarmlings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Points can also be spent to enhance the weapons in one of many ways. Firstly, weapon abilities or enhancements may be added. An effective enhancement bonus costs one point for a +1 bonus, two points for a +2, and each increase of one beyond that costs one more point than the previous. (1 for +1, 2 for +2, 4 for +3, 7 for +4). These points may be exchanged for special weapon abilities. The flat bonus may not surpass five until the Swarmlord reaches twenty-first level.
    This ability seems to add a reasonable amount of power to the swarmlings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Two points put to the purpose increases the damage of one natural weapon as if by a size increase. Each additional increase costs one more point. This is calculated and limited per weapon.
    Ahh. This as written means that to increase a swarmlings weapons size once costs 2 points, twice is 3 points, three times is 4 points etc. If your going to use an increasing cost you might want to put an example in so that it is clear that one size increase is 2 points, two size increases to weapons is 3 points. INVALIDATED BY SIZE INCREASE

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Each third point can increase the weapon’s range. Three points give it a 10ft range, and each third extra point doubles its range.
    This ability looks to me like it is needlessly expensive for range. You should continue your trend of making increasing benefits increasingly expensive, but start out alot cheaper. 3 points for 10ft of range isn't that great at all. INVALIDATED POISION

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    One point allows a weapon to function as nonlethal without penalty. Two convert a weapon’s damage to one of the four basic energy types. (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire). Four can convert a weapon to a more esoteric energy type such as Sonic or Desiccation, and eight allow a damage type such as Force with innate abilities.
    This seems situational, but reasonably priced. However if you can't change swarmlings on the fly, and you don't have any prior knowledge of encounters, then unless the swarmlord is trying to be a nice queen and makes the swarmlings non-lethal, then I see no reason to take this ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Three points increase a weapon’s base critical threat range OR critical damage range by one. (to 19-20 or x3). Ten points increase both.
    This seems extremely expensive for a negligible increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Armoured Hide
    Each point in this ability adds one to the Swarmling’s Natural Armour. In addition, each fourth point gives it a point of Resist.
    Resist is described under the Ironscales Swarmlord Evolution. It resists all damage except that which explicitly penetrates resistances of all kind.
    In my opinion, this is the best balanced of all the swarmling abilities, especially since it scales linearly, which is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Bonus Feats
    The first feat costs two points, and each feat beyond one costs one more point than the last did. Therefore, two points in this ability grants one feat, five points grants two, nine points grant three, fourteen points grant four, and twenty points grant five feats. The Swarmling must meet prerequisites.
    Since the swarmling must meet the prerequisites of the feats taken, I see no reason why this shouldn't scale linearly. This makes this ability overly expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Bonus Hit Die
    Each second point put in this ability grants an additional HD
    A great ability useful to almost every type of swarmling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Enhanced Ability
    For each second point spent on this ability, the Swarmling adds one as an inherent bonus to any one ability score, stacking with all others.
    This ability seems way to expensive. It should be one point for one ability increase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Final Ending
    For at least five points, this ability grants the Swarmling an explosive end. When killed, they explode, dealing either fire or acid* damage to each creature within 5ft/HD. This damage is equal to 1d6 for each second point put into this ability.
    Infested with this ability can be manually destroyed by the Swarmlord, using a standard action. They are immediately reduced to -10hp, and explode. Obviously, only Hive Mind infested can be destroyed this way.
    Other damage types could also work. Maybe physical damage types are 1d8, rare types 1d4.
    Seems like a fun ability. A horde of exploding infested dire rats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Hive Node
    Three points in this ability allow the Swarmling to function as if within Hive Mind range at all times. More points than this allow the Swarmling to control other members of the swarm as if it were a Swarmlord of class level equal to the number of points in this ability minus three.
    Pray tell what benefit does being controlled by a Swarmlord grant swarmlings? I mean they are controlled, but unless I've misread something drastically the EP is keyed of the Swarmlord who created the swarmlings at the time of their creation. However this ability is good, creating a functional lieutenant. Becuase the swarmling counts as if within Hive Mind range at all times, can the Swarmlord who created this Swarmling always send the Swarmling orders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Martial Expertise
    Each second point in this ability grants a maneuver known. The second point and each third thereafter grants a maneuver readied.
    Each sixth point grants a stance.
    The Swarmling has an initiator level equal to half the points put into this ability. It uses Wisdom as its mental ability score for Initiation.
    A Swarmling without this ability does not count its HD towards initiator level.
    I'm not sure what to say for this one. At the same time as I want to say make it cheaper so your swarmlings can get better abilities, as you only ever get 4, at the same time that would make them to powerful.... I think this is great as is though. Good addition.
    As an extension to this, would adding the ability for swarmlings to invest essentia and bind soulmelds through a similar function be a good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Mind Over Matter
    For five points, the Swarmling suffers -2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Con, but gains +8 Int, +2 Wis.
    No problems here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Movement
    Each second point in this ability may enhance the Swarmling’s base land speed by 10ft.
    Alternatively, two points give the Swarmling a burrow, climb or swim speed of 30ft. Each second point after these two increase the Swarmling’s speed in that movement by ten.
    A Swarmling with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. The same applies to a Swarmling with a swim speed in relation to Swim checks.
    Alternatively, five points grant a fly speed of 30ft (Average). Each three points after the five increase this speed by 15ft and increase maneuverability by one stage.
    Yep, this ability seems great. Technically, if you infest something with a burrow speed, and then make them a swarmling, you have to give them another burrow speed in order to enhance it. Would an idea be "For every 2evolution points invested in this ability, a swarmling may increase an existing movement speed by 10ft.
    For 3 points a swarmling may gain a climb, burrow or swim speed of 30ft. These may be enhanced as normal through this ability.
    For 5 points a swarmling may gain a fly speed of 30ft, maneuverability of Average.
    For every 4 points invested in increasing the fly movement speed, the maneuverability of the fly speed is increased by one category, up to a maximum of perfect"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Preternatural Skill
    Two points in this ability allows the Swarmling to choose a single skill. That skill becomes a class skill permanently.
    I really, really recommend using retroactive skill points for Swarmlings, even if you don’t use it for anyone/thing else. I’m also leery about letting someone take this repeatedly, but… what’s the worst that can happen?
    Great, balanced, no problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Size Change
    Each third point put into this ability causes the Swamling to increase or decrease in size. An increase grants +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, and an additional point of natural armour. A decrease grants -2 Con, and +4 Dex. These replace the usual ability score changes from changing size, but other size bonuses change to fit the new size.
    This is probably the most troubling ability. Not because it itself is overpowered or anything, I rather like it and think is is a good investment. However this constant point cost of 3 means that other abilities such as increasing the size of your natural weapons, which has an increasing cost per size increase, are invalidated because this ability both increases your weapon size, but also grants ability score increase. This ability is also far better than the inherent ability increases for your ability scores, because for only 3 points you can increase both Str and Con by 2. I would make increasing the size of your weapons cheaper, and also increasing your abilities cheaper so that more abilities are viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Special Attacks/Qualities
    A Swarmling can spend points to gain special abilities. Each one is considered a separate ability for purpose of the (level) cap of evolution points.
    Alternate Form-5+ points, grants a single humanoid form with CR no greater than half the points spent. May be taken additional times for additional forms. Even in humanoid form, they look unnatural, but still appear odd.
    Breath Weapon-5 points grant a breath weapon dealing 3d6 damage, of a single basic energy or physical damage type. Each two additional points increases this damage by one dice. The reflex save DC is constitution based, and the weapon may be used once every 1d4 rounds.
    Constrict-4 points grant a constrict attack for 1d6+1.5Str, and the damage increased by 1d6 for each three extra points spent.
    Darkvision-Two points grant the Low Light Vision ability. Four points instead grant Darkvision.
    Energy Drain-Eight points grant the ability to, once per encounter, deal 1d4 negative levels with a melee touch attack. Each additional three points allow it to be used an additional time per encounter. For a full twenty points, it is applied on every successful melee attack. The save DC is charisma based.
    Evasion-Four points grant the Evasion ability. For ten points, this is increased to Improved Evasion.
    Fast Healing-Each three points put into this ability grant Fast Healing 1. An additional two points grant the limb-regenerative ability of Regeneration.
    Frightful Presence-Six points grant the Frightful Presence ability. The save DC is Charisma based.
    Improved Grab-3 points for each compatible weapon
    Lightning Charge-For four points, the Swarmling triples their speed when making charges.
    Mettle-Five points grant the Mettle ability. For eleven points, this is increased to Improved Mettle.
    Paralysis-Nine points grants the Swarmling a paralytic ability. This requires a successful melee touch attack, and grants the victim a fortitude save vs the effect. The save DC is Wisdom based.
    Poison-Four points grants a poison. This is either a contact poison doing 1d6 ability damage, or an injury poison dealing 2d4. Contact poisons are delivered as touch attacks. (Usually melee, but ranged for 1 point (10ft), +2 points doubles range each time). Injury poisons are delivered in addition to another attack, and take effect if it deals at least one point of damage.
    Five points increases the damage by 1d6/2d4. Each additional increase costs one more than the last.
    Pounce-Six points grants the Pounce special ability.
    Scent-Three points grants the Scent special ability.
    Swallow Whole-Six points, required Improved Grab applied to a bite attack.
    Trample-Costs five points, and works on any size creature, dealing damage equal to 1d4 for a small creature, increasing by size. Save DC is Str based.
    If it’s covered in spikes, it can be half your size, you still don’t want it running over you.
    While these abilities are cool, most of them are so expensive that they aren't going to get much use till later in the game, or just at all.
    Alter Form - Good ability, should be cheaper and just transform using a disguise self like effect into some humanoid.
    Breath Weapon - Decent, well priced and interesting. Would other types of breath weapon for additional points be a good idea?
    Constrict - Good ability, but the extension to the price seems too great. 3 points for only 1d6 damage? Maybe increasing the strength modifier as well would be a good idea.
    Darkvision - 4 points for darkvision seems extremely pricey. I think 2 would be much more reasonable.
    Energy Drain - This is a great idea, especially the once per encounter limit, and well priced.
    Evasion - Useful, but like mettle below this is slightly overpriced with disposable minions.
    Fast Healing - Great ability, well priced and a good idea to tack on the regenerative properties.
    Frightful Presence - This is a good ability, and is well priced.
    Improved Grab - This is confusing. Does this mean if i take this once, all the swarmlings tentacle attacks have Improved Grab? Or only one of the tentacles? If the latter, this ability is well priced.
    Lightning Charge - Good, but again slightly cheaper would be nice, as this isn't that great.
    Mettle - Good, but with disposable minions this is less useful than it appears. I think the cost might be decreased a bit, because you can always replace minions.
    Paralysis - This is way to non-specific. Does the paralysis wear off or not? If I give my swarmlings ranged weapons can they use this at range? This is also a really good ability. I would make it last for a number of rounds based on your Swarmlord class level, or the number of evolution points invested in it, because as is, this is a save or die touch attack with disposable minions at level 9.
    Poison - This is awesomely powerful as is. At 5th level, you can have a swarmling potentially doing 8d4 con damage in one round, with 2 extra natural weapons and the posion ability. Also if you give your weapons range, injury poison will be transmitted with your weapons, so poison shouldn't need a range ability. You need to specify what type of ability damage this does. You might want to make this do less damage to begin with, cost less and increase slower. Eg 3 points for 1 point of ability damage, 6 points for 1d4, 10 points for 1d6, 15 points for 2d6.
    Pounce - I think this is too expensive, it should probably be more like 3 or even 2 points.
    Scent - All's well here.
    Swallow Whole - Do they take damage when inside the stomach of the Swarmling?
    Trample - Seems much to weak considering the plethora of attacks you can get through investing points elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Spirit Force
    This ability grants psionic or magical ability to a Swarmling. It may be taken twice separately to gain both.
    Each third point gives a single level of casting or manifesting, as if a Psion or a Sorcerer of that many levels. This casting/manifesting is Intelligence based, and has a caster/manifester level of the number of points invested into this ability.
    This ability is a great idea, but your swarmlings are only going to be able to contribute meaningfully if you specialize competely in this ability (taking Distant Manifestation twice, and taking Pinnacle Swarm [Spirit Force]), as otherwise at level two, your swarmlings will only be able to cast 3rd level powers/spells. Would getting a caster level at the first point, second point and every second point there after (4 points=CL 3, 6 points=CL 4 etc.) be more reasonable? The maximum caster level achievable for your swarmlings then is 15, with full specialization. Maybe that is a bit to high, but some kind of increase would be nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    The Swarm Grows
    For six points, the Swarmlord now has a second Swarmling. For twelve points, he has three. For eighteen points, he has four. The Swarmlings share the same pool of Evolution Points, and must buy evolutions seperately, but otherwise gain abilities at the same speed.
    This ability is the best, it is literally the thing that makes this class so cool, but it grants you so few swarmlings. This would be great to have new swarmlings every 4 points, ie 4 points = 2 swarmlings, 8 points = 3 swarmlings etc.
    Also does each swarmling get a evolution points equal to your total pool minise the cost of this evolution? Or is the one pool used to buy evolutions for each swarmling seperately, ie getting 1 extra HD for 3 swarmlings would be 6EP (evolution points)? If the latter is the case, then the evolution points pool created by the Swarmlord is to low, and prevents meaningful customization.
    Making a high charisma grant bonus EP to the pool as if granting bonus power points based on ability modifier and Swarmlord level could be a way of mitigating this.

    Overall, really love the class. Great work .

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwyrm View Post
    Thoughts:
    I really like the idea behind this class, and the execution of many of the concepts. The evolution abilities are also generally clever.
    After taking this and making some swarmlings, which after all are some of the coolest stuff this class gets, I did find that the wording of several of the EP costs meant that there meaning was confusing. Thoughts on each of the abilities is as follows:
    Thanks! A lot of your feedback seems really helpful!

    Ahh. This as written means that to increase a swarmlings weapons size once costs 2 points, twice is 3 points, three times is 4 points etc. If your going to use an increasing cost you might want to put an example in so that it is clear that one size increase is 2 points, two size increases to weapons is 3 points. INVALIDATED BY SIZE INCREASE
    Whoops. It's meant to be 2 then three then four. May lower it to 1 then 2 then 3 etc, to make it easier to balance against size increase.

    This ability looks to me like it is needlessly expensive for range. You should continue your trend of making increasing benefits increasingly expensive, but start out alot cheaper. 3 points for 10ft of range isn't that great at all. INVALIDATED POISION
    Maybe have it start at 30ft, and add 30ft/40ft/50ft etc?
    (Intention on poison isn't quite that, will clarify.)

    This seems situational, but reasonably priced. However if you can't change swarmlings on the fly, and you don't have any prior knowledge of encounters, then unless the swarmlord is trying to be a nice queen and makes the swarmlings non-lethal, then I see no reason to take this ability.
    It is primarily for a niche cool ability, yes. That said, rapid mutation should be an evolution weeeee!

    This seems extremely expensive for a negligible increase.
    I wouldn't call it negligible at all.
    Although perhaps 2/2/7 would be better.

    In my opinion, this is the best balanced of all the swarmling abilities, especially since it scales linearly, which is nice.
    Thanks. Defences don't need to scale as hard as DCs and damage.

    Since the swarmling must meet the prerequisites of the feats taken, I see no reason why this shouldn't scale linearly. This makes this ability overly expensive.
    You're probably right...

    A great ability useful to almost every type of swarmling.
    Bread and butter, really. xD

    This ability seems way to expensive. It should be one point for one ability increase.
    Do you think so? I guess that could work.

    Seems like a fun ability. A horde of exploding infested dire rats.
    Not my idea, that one. xD

    Pray tell what benefit does being controlled by a Swarmlord grant swarmlings? I mean they are controlled, but unless I've misread something drastically the EP is keyed of the Swarmlord who created the swarmlings at the time of their creation. However this ability is good, creating a functional lieutenant. Becuase the swarmling counts as if within Hive Mind range at all times, can the Swarmlord who created this Swarmling always send the Swarmling orders?
    Well, it gives the Iron Will feat, lets the Swarmlord direct them as she desires, and fluffwise means they're part of the collective consciousness.

    I'm not sure what to say for this one. At the same time as I want to say make it cheaper so your swarmlings can get better abilities, as you only ever get 4, at the same time that would make them to powerful.... I think this is great as is though. Good addition.
    As an extension to this, would adding the ability for swarmlings to invest essentia and bind soulmelds through a similar function be a good idea?
    Heh, thank you.
    And I'm pretty sure that'd be fine, I just don't use binding to know how it works. xD

    Yep, this ability seems great. Technically, if you infest something with a burrow speed, and then make them a swarmling, you have to give them another burrow speed in order to enhance it. Would an idea be "For every 2evolution points invested in this ability, a swarmling may increase an existing movement speed by 10ft.
    For 3 points a swarmling may gain a climb, burrow or swim speed of 30ft. These may be enhanced as normal through this ability.
    For 5 points a swarmling may gain a fly speed of 30ft, maneuverability of Average.
    For every 4 points invested in increasing the fly movement speed, the maneuverability of the fly speed is increased by one category, up to a maximum of perfect"?
    Whoooops. I'mma gonna copy paste your wording.

    This is probably the most troubling ability. Not because it itself is overpowered or anything, I rather like it and think is is a good investment. However this constant point cost of 3 means that other abilities such as increasing the size of your natural weapons, which has an increasing cost per size increase, are invalidated because this ability both increases your weapon size, but also grants ability score increase. This ability is also far better than the inherent ability increases for your ability scores, because for only 3 points you can increase both Str and Con by 2. I would make increasing the size of your weapons cheaper, and also increasing your abilities cheaper so that more abilities are viable.
    Whoooops. I'm making the others cheaper, and this should probably have a scaling cost too.

    While these abilities are cool, most of them are so expensive that they aren't going to get much use till later in the game, or just at all.
    Alter Form - Good ability, should be cheaper and just transform using a disguise self like effect into some humanoid.
    I guess. It's great utility, which is why I was worried.

    Breath Weapon - Decent, well priced and interesting. Would other types of breath weapon for additional points be a good idea?
    you mean spend more points, get to choose between fire and cold?

    Constrict - Good ability, but the extension to the price seems too great. 3 points for only 1d6 damage? Maybe increasing the strength modifier as well would be a good idea.
    I'll make it slightly cheaper and scale... in fact, I'll just make it upgradable as a natural weapon.

    Darkvision - 4 points for darkvision seems extremely pricey. I think 2 would be much more reasonable.
    I have no idea. xD

    Energy Drain - This is a great idea, especially the once per encounter limit, and well priced.
    Thank you.

    Evasion - Useful, but like mettle below this is slightly overpriced with disposable minions.
    How so?

    Fast Healing - Great ability, well priced and a good idea to tack on the regenerative properties.
    Frightful Presence - This is a good ability, and is well priced.
    Thanks.

    Improved Grab - This is confusing. Does this mean if i take this once, all the swarmlings tentacle attacks have Improved Grab? Or only one of the tentacles? If the latter, this ability is well priced.
    The latter, I need to clarify.

    Lightning Charge - Good, but again slightly cheaper would be nice, as this isn't that great.
    ...agreed.

    Mettle - Good, but with disposable minions this is less useful than it appears. I think the cost might be decreased a bit, because you can always replace minions.
    ...sensible.

    Paralysis - This is way to non-specific. Does the paralysis wear off or not? If I give my swarmlings ranged weapons can they use this at range? This is also a really good ability. I would make it last for a number of rounds based on your Swarmlord class level, or the number of evolution points invested in it, because as is, this is a save or die touch attack with disposable minions at level 9.
    Yes, no, good idea. Will clarify.

    Poison - This is awesomely powerful as is. At 5th level, you can have a swarmling potentially doing 8d4 con damage in one round, with 2 extra natural weapons and the posion ability. Also if you give your weapons range, injury poison will be transmitted with your weapons, so poison shouldn't need a range ability. You need to specify what type of ability damage this does. You might want to make this do less damage to begin with, cost less and increase slower. Eg 3 points for 1 point of ability damage, 6 points for 1d4, 10 points for 1d6, 15 points for 2d6.
    Whoops. It should be per weapon, and the range option is to let you spit the poison without a weapon.

    Pounce - I think this is too expensive, it should probably be more like 3 or even 2 points.
    Not sure. Pounce is STRONG.

    Scent - All's well here.
    Cool.

    Swallow Whole - Do they take damage when inside the stomach of the Swarmling?
    They should!

    Trample - Seems much to weak considering the plethora of attacks you can get through investing points elsewhere
    Fair. Incoming buffs.

    This ability is a great idea, but your swarmlings are only going to be able to contribute meaningfully if you specialize competely in this ability (taking Distant Manifestation twice, and taking Pinnacle Swarm [Spirit Force]), as otherwise at level two, your swarmlings will only be able to cast 3rd level powers/spells. Would getting a caster level at the first point, second point and every second point there after (4 points=CL 3, 6 points=CL 4 etc.) be more reasonable? The maximum caster level achievable for your swarmlings then is 15, with full specialization. Maybe that is a bit to high, but some kind of increase would be nice.
    I'm very, very leery of this ability. It currently uses the same scaling as the Martial abilities. At level 20, with pinnacle, you can get it to 24, which gives them Cast/manifest as an 8th level, with level 4 spells/powers.
    Now... perhaps if each third point let them cast one level of spells. It would need to cap at eight at the very HIGHEST, and preferably lower. Six would seem good, at one less than the swarmlord, but... I'm not sure at all.


    This ability is the best, it is literally the thing that makes this class so cool, but it grants you so few swarmlings. This would be great to have new swarmlings every 4 points, ie 4 points = 2 swarmlings, 8 points = 3 swarmlings etc.
    Also does each swarmling get a evolution points equal to your total pool minise the cost of this evolution? Or is the one pool used to buy evolutions for each swarmling seperately, ie getting 1 extra HD for 3 swarmlings would be 6EP (evolution points)? If the latter is the case, then the evolution points pool created by the Swarmlord is to low, and prevents meaningful customization.
    Making a high charisma grant bonus EP to the pool as if granting bonus power points based on ability modifier and Swarmlord level could be a way of mitigating this.
    Well, the problem is time! If you have three swarmlings, your turn could take four times as long as another players, and that's assuming you share initiative.
    The pool is for all of them to share. Having several weak or one strong is meant to be a valid choice.
    However, I think I have a valid way to help it that you just inspired.

    Overall, really love the class. Great work .
    Thanks. ^^
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    First of all, the all caps INVALIDATED wasn't meant to mean that the ability was bad or anything, just a reminder to me to come back and discuss the relative benefits of abilites. Wasn't meant to offend .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    You mean spend more points, get to choose between fire and cold?
    You know how different dragons have cool different breaths? Maybe if you paid extra EP you could get a swarmling breathing sonic energy, or dealing strength damage or something. Though on second thoughts this latter part conflicts with poison.... Actually this ability is fine.

    Not sure. Pounce is STRONG.
    Thought about it more, agreed with this decision.

    I'm very, very leery of this ability. It currently uses the same scaling as the Martial abilities. At level 20, with pinnacle, you can get it to 24, which gives them Cast/manifest as an 8th level, with level 4 spells/powers.
    Now... perhaps if each third point let them cast one level of spells. It would need to cap at eight at the very HIGHEST, and preferably lower. Six would seem good, at one less than the swarmlord, but... I'm not sure at all.
    Yeah this ability is probably the hardest to pitch correctly. At the same time as this can lead to superpowered spell casting swarmlings, it can also make them to weak and make melee/weapon swarmlings much more powerful. Perhaps one spell level at one point, then one more spell level at 6 points, 12 points and 18 points (and again at 24 if you got the pinnacle ability). So thats almost exactly the same as your ability, it just comes online a little quicker at the beginning. This would cap the max spell level at 4, or at 5 if you got the pinnacle ability? And maybe only one swarmling per swarmlord may cast spells or powers?

    Well, the problem is time! If you have three swarmlings, your turn could take four times as long as another players, and that's assuming you share initiative.
    The pool is for all of them to share. Having several weak or one strong is meant to be a valid choice.
    However, I think I have a valid way to help it that you just inspired.
    After thinking about it more, and realising that your swarmlings can come from infested or assimilated creatures, swarmlings are powerful enough that your proposed limits are great. At the same time as I want to awesomeness of THE HORDE, I know that its unfeasible. I'm playing with a Dread Necro right now, when everyone in the party can cast, and does cast, Animate Undead, and each turn is SLOW.

    Overall the number of points each swarmling gets seems perfect now.
    Also with all your changes I like what I see.
    Great work!
    EDIT: Quote boxes broke, had to fix them.
    Last edited by Hellwyrm; 2012-08-29 at 10:35 PM.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellwyrm View Post
    First of all, the all caps INVALIDATED wasn't meant to mean that the ability was bad or anything, just a reminder to me to come back and discuss the relative benefits of abilites. Wasn't meant to offend .
    No probs, I got that. ^^

    You know how different dragons have cool different breaths? Maybe if you paid extra EP you could get a swarmling breathing sonic energy, or dealing strength damage or something. Though on second thoughts this latter part conflicts with poison.... Actually this ability is fine.
    I'd probably be up for it, but each one would need to be written out separately as a special case xD

    Yeah this ability is probably the hardest to pitch correctly. At the same time as this can lead to superpowered spell casting swarmlings, it can also make them to weak and make melee/weapon swarmlings much more powerful. Perhaps one spell level at one point, then one more spell level at 6 points, 12 points and 18 points (and again at 24 if you got the pinnacle ability). So thats almost exactly the same as your ability, it just comes online a little quicker at the beginning. This would cap the max spell level at 4, or at 5 if you got the pinnacle ability? And maybe only one swarmling per swarmlord may cast spells or powers?
    Hmm. One seems a little early. I don't want them to be casting the same max level as a PC caster at any point.
    Perhaps four points for each level...

    After thinking about it more, and realising that your swarmlings can come from infested or assimilated creatures, swarmlings are powerful enough that your proposed limits are great. At the same time as I want to awesomeness of THE HORDE, I know that its unfeasible. I'm playing with a Dread Necro right now, when everyone in the party can cast, and does cast, Animate Undead, and each turn is SLOW.

    Overall the number of points each swarmling gets seems perfect now.
    Also with all your changes I like what I see.
    Great work!
    EDIT: Quote boxes broke, had to fix them.
    Thank you!
    ...hmm. If you assimilate something with your HD, and make it a swarmling, it then gets 1/2 HD in bonus HD, and then you buy half/HD for it... Don't think this is working as intended...
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    LOVE THIS CLASS
    Other then that all I can say is that I really want to play it and to ask if you could please finish that bit in the infested area "Hive Minds-I Am Me And We Are The Swarm" (I don't mean to pressure you but I just don't feel like my DM would let me play this class until that bit has been finished)
    Thanks for making an awesome class
    Last edited by Andrian Talehot; 2012-09-27 at 08:19 AM.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Wow, this class is one of the best I've ever seen.

    As for the Capstone abilities, I would say having the immortality, terminator, and then one or two more options to choose from. At this point in time I can't think of any suggestions, however I will think on it.

    Also, amazing class.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrian Talehot View Post
    LOVE THIS CLASS
    Other then that all I can say is that I really want to play it and to ask if you could please finish that bit in the infested area "Hive Minds-I Am Me And We Are The Swarm" (I don't mean to pressure you but I just don't feel like my DM would let me play this class until that bit has been finished)
    Thanks for making an awesome class
    Whooops! It's mostly a large piece of fluff, explaining my own personal stance on what it's like being in a hive mind while still having your own self. I just need to get around to writing it. xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    A few things:

    -As is, there is no cap on how many minions you can have. Even if this was intentional, I have to disagree with this vehemently. If you don't want the class to be broken from the get-go, you need to have a maximum number of minions.

    -As written, the level cap on evolution points in a single evolution does not apply to Infested, Assimilated, or Embraced.

    -When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?

    -The bonus points per minion does not specify which ability score they are keyed off of.

    -I think the evolution costs might need to scale just a little bit faster. Not sure about this one, though, as I'll have to do some maths.

    I might be forgetting a couple, so I'll try and remember them later on.

    EDIT: Oh, yes!

    -How does one go about replacing a dead Swarmling? Also, when it says you turn an Infested or Assimilated into a Swarmling instead of just making one, how and when does this happen? Is it when you gain a level, or is there a ritual?

    Aside from those, it's pretty good so far.
    Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2012-09-27 at 03:28 PM.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    I noticed that, while you said it was a good idea, Rite of Succession isn't in the feats or the evolutions, nor is something with similar effects. Do you intend to add it/something like it at some point, or did you change your mind?

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon Falcon View Post
    A few things:

    -As is, there is no cap on how many minions you can have. Even if this was intentional, I have to disagree with this vehemently. If you don't want the class to be broken from the get-go, you need to have a maximum number of minions.
    Huh? But the swarmlings are-
    Oh, right. Yeah. That's very strong, and I couldn't think of any way to balance it. However, on thinking, I could use the precedent from animate dead. Will edit.

    -As written, the level cap on evolution points in a single evolution does not apply to Infested, Assimilated, or Embraced.
    Also a mistake.

    -When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?
    Hadn't thought about it. Perhaps the next period of rest.

    -The bonus points per minion does not specify which ability score they are keyed off of.
    Whoops. Charisma, unless you take a feat to change it.

    -I think the evolution costs might need to scale just a little bit faster. Not sure about this one, though, as I'll have to do some maths.
    Feel free to get back to me.

    -How does one go about replacing a dead Swarmling? Also, when it says you turn an Infested or Assimilated into a Swarmling instead of just making one, how and when does this happen? Is it when you gain a level, or is there a ritual?
    Very specifically left unspecified. You could get swarmlings by cocooning cute woodland animals, laying eggs yourself, or some sort of parasitic kiss.
    However, I will explain how long it normally takes.
    As for turning infested and co into swarmlings, that would be 'whenever you would gain a new swarmling', which I'll also add.

    Aside from those, it's pretty good so far.
    Thanks. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    I noticed that, while you said it was a good idea, Rite of Succession isn't in the feats or the evolutions, nor is something with similar effects. Do you intend to add it/something like it at some point, or did you change your mind?
    I forgot. xD I'll add something like it.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2012-09-27 at 04:30 PM.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    -When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?
    A way to redistribute Evolution points (or to have mutable Evolution points) would be great. I'm thinking of a 5:1 ratio, granting to the swarmling the ability to change their mutable points every 8 hours or so. An evolution may allow to make the ''adaptation'' of the swarmling faster (one hour, then 10 minutes, then 1 minute, then a round, ...).

    Not sure if I'm clear, though.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-09-27 at 04:29 PM.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    A way to redistribute Evolution points (or to have mutable Evolution points) would be great. I'm thinking of a 5:1 ratio, granting to the swarmling the ability to change their mutable points every 8 hours or so. An evolution may allow to make the ''adaptation'' of the swarmling faster (one hour, then 10 minutes, then 1 minute, then a round, ...).

    Not sure if I'm clear, though.
    Mutable Form
    This Evolution allows a Swarmling to adapt to the situation. Each third point in this ability grants two floating evolution points. As a full round action, the Swarmling may assign these points to any Evolution he qualifies for.

    Like that one, that already exists?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    Oh and another thing that I forgot to mention. How long does it take for the cocoons to catch and when over the course of the infestation does the victim take their saves?
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    The cocoons form instantly when they fail their fort save, and they make a will save at the END of the duration.
    That's written in the ability. Should I make it clearer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    no don't make it clearer. I'm just unsure as to how long that they will be in the cocoon before you get your infected. (After all it would be op if it was straight away after they failed their saves but really annoying if it took as long as it did for Kerrgian to hatch in SC).
    EDIT: whoops never mind... just reread the ability ... don't know how I missed that
    Last edited by Andrian Talehot; 2012-09-29 at 07:30 AM.
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    It's okay, everyone derps. xD
    Do you think I could reword it to make it clearer, or were you just being herpaderp?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    herpaderp :P
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    Default Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]

    If you're going to base the minion limit off HD like Animate Dead, that brings up another issue with Embraced and Assimilated: The bonus HD mutation. It's not a problem with the minion cap beyond being fairly clunky, but the big problem is with the templates that can be applied to other PCs. You don't want your friends to be able to gain half their level in extra HD, because that kind of messes up the game. So, you'll want to put in a preventative clause.
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