Games that ask you not to change them

[Totally Guy]

Regardless of how you feel about it can you think of any examples of RPGs that explicitly recommend you play it as written? What about authors, after the fact, expressing the same notion when talking about thier game.

I think there was an example of Gygax saying it about Dungeons and Dragons. Luke Crane says it too about Mouse Guard and Burning Wheel.

Anyone else?

[Ashtagon]

Regardless of how you feel about it can you think of any examples of RPGs that explicitly recommend you play it as written? What about authors, after the fact, expressing the same notion when talking about thier game.

I think there was an example of Gygax saying it about Dungeons and Dragons. ...

Cite? Because iirc the core books has him explicitly defining Rule 0, which says the exact opposite.

[Totally Guy]

Cite? Because iirc the core books has him explicitly defining Rule 0, which says the exact opposite.

It was in a recent old-school discussion. Here.

[hamlet]

Yes, that particular quote is fairly famous.

Gygax is infamous in all circles for having a somewhat . . . schizophrenic public persona at times. Especially when it came to his own product.

On the one hand, he was trying very hard to defend his product and his intellectual property which was, at the time, being poached mercilessly. Can't say that I blame him.

At the same time, AD&D was, for all intents and purposes, designed to be "the D&D which people play at tournaments" and so "standardization" was really the key to the concept. It had to be the same from table to table while in the same tournament for obvious reasons. Gygax himself, actually, did not play it but stuck with the original three little brown books and the supplements until the end even, with his own houserules. It amounted to, about, the same thing, but don't look at it too closely or you'll make yourself unhappy.

Actually, I think when it came right down to it, as long as you weren't trying to sell it or to broadcast it as "the official version" or something like that, Gary wouldn't really mind what you did to the system as long as you were having fun with it. Change what you wanted/needed to change to suit your needs. But when you arrive at the tournament table, you have to be prepared to play by the same rules as everybody else.

In a lot of ways, the tournament changed dramatically the way people play RPG's and expect to play RPG's.

[NikitaDarkstar]

I haven't actually played it but Exalted strikes me as one of those games.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I haven't actually played it but Exalted strikes me as one of those games.

Depends, really. For me? I hate it when they make big changes to the base setting because rule of cool. There are superhero and generic systems out there if you want a game that runs off rule of cool.

However, when Shards hit, I loved it. Alternate History, Modern, and Space Opera. Three settings, two of which are completely divorced from the original, and even Alternate History is pretty much entirely different (including being set in a different 'verse, although it still has the fundamentals of being made by Primordials, Autochthon, Gaia, and the Incarnae plotting against them and forging the exaltations... and that's where the similarities end except for the three universal truths of Exalted. No resurrection, no time travel (although temporal weapons which distort the flow of time exist), and only one exaltation per soul per lifetime).

So to me, it's more like you can't change the setting of Exalted based purely on awesome factor. If you want to give Lookshy a Royal Warstrider as a gift from the Lunars (who didn't reveal themselves, of course) so that they would be better at holding off the Realm, that makes a decent amount of sense. If you want to put a kingdom full of magitech right in the middle of the Scavenger Lands and expect it NOT to pretty drastically change the setting's history from the time it was founded... not so much.

[Arbane]

I haven't actually played it but Exalted strikes me as one of those games.

Depends, really. For me? I hate it when they make big changes to the base setting because rule of cool. There are superhero and generic systems out there if you want a game that runs off rule of cool.

I think Nikita might have meant mechanical changes? Exalted's system is complex enough that adding houserules or new powers can seriously break some things (even more than they're already broken).

[wadledo]

I think Nikita might have meant mechanical changes? Exalted's system is complex enough that adding houserules or new powers can seriously break some things (even more than they're already broken).

Though as a counter to that, some of the more prolific homebrewers are now the people in charge of making the next edition of Exalted.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Though as a counter to that, some of the more prolific homebrewers are now the people in charge of making the next edition of Exalted.

There's also a list of common houserules. A few free Excellencies (exact number depends on exalt type), extra health levels, and sometimes reduction in bonus point cost of Essence raising.

Exalted invites the homebrewing of new artifacts, though. The emphasis of First Age artifacts (like, say, the ones your Solar find in his predecessor's tomb) being stronger and more unique than their Second Age equivalents means you're going to have to figure out a custom power for your Daiklave to raise it up to a three-dot artifact if it was forged at the middle or late point of the High First Age (if it was forged during the War, a regular old Daiklave is perfectly plausible). Noble and Royal Warstriders are also unique, and at the least, requires you to pick some stuff from a list, if you don't want to come up with new stuff.

Also, Colossus, Municipal, Yozis other than the Reclamation conspirators, all those need charmsets. Recently, someone posted some Colossus Charms on the White Wolf forums. Many Yozis have had charmsets made by homebrewers.

Ink Monkeys is also semi-official homebrew.

[Andreaz]

Ink Monkeys is also semi-official homebrew.

The ink monkeys are absolutely official. They even get official errata, in the official book, and official support everywhere.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The ink monkeys are absolutely official. They even get official errata, in the official book, and official support everywhere.

Okay, completely official homebrew.

[Arbane]

Okay, completely official homebrew.

If it's official, it's really not 'homebrew', is it? Otherwise, I can say that "D&D 3.5 is a homebrew system", which kind of sucks all the meaning out of the term.

[Hiro Protagonest]

If it's official, it's really not 'homebrew', is it? Otherwise, I can say that "D&D 3.5 is a homebrew system", which kind of sucks all the meaning out of the term.

All Ink Monkeys are homebrewers, invited into the ranks by other Ink Monkeys, who create stuff for no pay. It just has the WW stamp of approval. It's like Dragon Magazine, except with better quality control (also, you can use a Charm in there to punch Isidoros into the sun. Then he gets a bunch of essence cannons firing at him, because the sun is not a big ball of fire, it's a giant battleship that turns into a kung fu robot. The sun is also Ink Monkey stuff).

Oh, except it also creates fluff. Like the Daystar. And Zen-Mu.

[Andreaz]

Then you are denying giving it an official status by virtue of not wanting to. Gotcha.

[SiderealDreams]

To add to Andreaz. The Ink Monkey stuff was never EVER house rule stuff+. It was official material for the game line.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...I do assume the Daystar is a giant battleship and that my Slayer can take By Rage Recast and Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm pretty sure that FATAL has a "you really should play this exactly as it's written" clause, but, well... The less we talk about that particular thing (it doesn't deserve to be called a "game") the better.

[SiderealDreams]

...I do assume the Daystar is a giant battleship and that my Slayer can take By Rage Recast and Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai.

Yep. Assuming your ST isn't being weird about it. Either way Andreaz/Arbane are correct. It's not homebrew material and never was.

[Loki_42]

I'm pretty sure that FATAL has a "you really should play this exactly as it's written" clause, but, well... The less we talk about that particular thing (it doesn't deserve to be called a "game") the better.

Synnibar has that too, and is about as bad, but thankfully on the absurd, overly complex rules for a boring game side, not the squick side.

[jackattack]

Someone went on the Serenity RPG board asking about possible mental powers (other than "reader") to add to his game. The moderator told him that there are no other mental powers in the Serenity RPG.

[Lord Tyger]

Someone went on the Serenity RPG board asking about possible mental powers (other than "reader") to add to his game. The moderator told him that there are no other mental powers in the Serenity RPG.

Which makes sense- that's doesn't sound so much like saying "Play it as is," as "That's what's in the game, don't ask me what else you could put in." It would be like saying, "Okay, so there are these types of elementals in Pathfinder, what other types could I put in," and being answered, "Paizo has put these elementals in,"

Edit: Some thing in Pathfinder are left explicitly up to homeruling/homebrewing, such as who exactly grants a witch her powers.

[Nepenthe]

From what I've seen on the forums, Luke Crane encourages hacking Mouse Guard but discourages house rules. Seems pretty fair to me considering most proposed house rules I've seen there stem from a base-level misunderstanding about what the system is supposed to do.

[huttj509]

From what I've seen on the forums, Luke Crane encourages hacking Mouse Guard but discourages house rules. Seems pretty fair to me considering most proposed house rules I've seen there stem from a base-level misunderstanding about what the system is supposed to do.

Reminds me of the ADnD 1e DMG, basically says "feel free to change stuff that gets in the way of your game, but understand why it is the way it is first."

[Arbane]

If I remember correctly, the rather cracktastic RPG World of Synnibar had a rule that if the players caught the GM not following the rules, they could call him on it and get double XP for that session (along with the GM's eternal hatred, of course). I'm not sure if it 'allowed' houseruling.

[jackattack]

Which makes sense- that's doesn't sound so much like saying "Play it as is," as "That's what's in the game, don't ask me what else you could put in."

No, it was very much "there are no other mental powers because we say so and if you try to put them in you are playing the game wrong."

[Sith_Happens]

If I remember correctly, the rather cracktastic RPG World of Synnibar had a rule that if the players caught the GM not following the rules, they could call him on it and get double XP for that session (along with the GM's eternal hatred, of course). I'm not sure if it 'allowed' houseruling.

What happens if the GM decides not to follow that rule?

[nyjastul69]

From what I've seen on the forums, Luke Crane encourages hacking Mouse Guard but discourages house rules. Seems pretty fair to me considering most proposed house rules I've seen there stem from a base-level misunderstanding about what the system is supposed to do.

What's the difference between hacking a system and house rules in a system? I'm not trying to be snarky. I've just never heard the term hacking used in regards to a RPG.

[NikitaDarkstar]

I think Nikita might have meant mechanical changes? Exalted's system is complex enough that adding houserules or new powers can seriously break some things (even more than they're already broken).

Actually I meant fluff wise. It seems like a system that's to intertwined with it's fluff to be able to change it much without ending up with rules that seems odd. But as I said I've only read the system (and not overly in depth either) I haven't actually played it so my impression might be very wrong.

[Knaight]

Synnibar has that too, and is about as bad, but thankfully on the absurd, overly complex rules for a boring game side, not the squick side.

Synnibar is a poorly made, poorly written, mechanical mess. The amount of descent necessary to go from that to FATAL is probably larger than the entire range of RPG quality if you disclude FATAL and Racial Holy War from the category. FATAL is in a special category which it has almost entirely to itself.

[vartan]

The intro to Spirit of the Century has the authors stating that their suggestions on how to play the game right are intentional and that they are unapologetic.