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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    WARNING: This Thread WILL contain spoilers.
    Smallprint: If you are unwilling to hear what MitD might be, or segments from the published books (specially SoD) then this is not a thread for you.
    Everyone else: don't bother spoilering or hiding that stuff in this thread. It is what we are here for


    ATTENTION: Newcomers, please read:
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    This thread has, over the last 260 pages, accumulated a lot of knowledge about MitD. However, you don't need to read the whole thread (and the previous five) to get up to speed. So long as you are reasonably familiar with these first five posts, you can jump right in, with no need to read more than the last few pages. On the other hand, please don't be surprised if your insight has been proposed before.

    • For relevant MitD canon and in-depth analysis of central MitD scenes, check section 1
    • For specific characteristics of MitD, check section 2
    • To see all suggestions so far (and particularly, if your idea has been mentioned before), check section 3
    • Thread rules and FAQ, check section 5
    


    Section 1: General Information
    Section 1a: Directly from Rich
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    Rich's Words on MitD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Burlew, in War and XPs c.368
    So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness is. I have (almost) always known. Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since. (Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is, either.) [...]
    I will say this much: It is possible to guess.
    That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster.
    I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Burlew, in Don't Split the Party
    [O-Chul] breaks himself out of the cage, he drives off Redcloak with a lucky shot, and most importantly, he has won the trust of the monster in the darkness over the course of months. So much so that the monster digs deep and discovers powers that he didn't even know he had in order to save him.
    Notes:
    • Strip 100 came out Sep 2, 2004, so no creature first published after that time can be considered.
    • "It is possible to guess." Any number of people have jumped to the conclusion that it means that MitD must be a famous or iconic creature. The phrase warrants no such conclusion. Instead, all it says is that MitD exists listed somewhere outside OotS - nothing more and nothing less. As such, the iconic status of an idea, or lack thereof, is of no weight whatsoever when considering its fitness as MitD's species.
    • "someone will figure it out": related to the above, it specifies that what Rich means by "guess" is not "throwing darts while blindfolded" type of guess, but a rational, follow the clues to a conclusion process. "A potted plant that was eaten and spat out by the Snarl, giving it eyes, a horrible appearance, great strength and the ability to teleport, and look, it can be guessed- I just did!" might fit the first meaning, but not the second.

    Rich's Words on Fidelity to D&D Rules
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich, news item 1/12/2012
    I barely even reference the 3.5 rules anymore, using them just to determine what sort of spells or class abilities a character might have and then ignoring them the rest of the time.
    Notes:
    • Rich has made mistakes with the powers a character can have (Tsukiko's extra school), but has admitted they are mistakes. The fact he admits it is one, in addition to this quote, indicates that Rich does not routinely give characters powers they wouldn't normally have. In addition, MitD's guessing game would require him to be more careful, not less, about what abilities and powers it displays, such as immunity to mind control.

    Published Canon
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    Stereotyped Big Game Hunters, when they capture MitD:
    Quote Originally Posted by SBGH, SoD
    Monocle: "My gods, is it talking? In Common, no less!"
    Jenkins: "Unbelievable!"
    Monocle: "Well, that will surely fetch a fine price."
    Jenkins: "Indeed!"
    Monocle: "I tell you, Jenkins, I never expected to see one of these in this part of the world."
    Jenkins: "Quite!"
    Monocle: "One-in-a-lifetime catch, Jenkins[...]"
    Circus, when the public looks upon MitD:
    Quote Originally Posted by Circus Public, SoD
    Human male: "Oh my gods..."
    Human Male: "It's horrible!"
    Human Female: "And yet... beautiful!"
    Human Female Child: "Mommy, I feel funny looking at it"
    Human Male: "Blerrch!" (throwing up)
    Human Male in wizard's clothing: "I've never seen anything like it!"
    Goblin Female Child: "Wooooooo!"
    Goblin Male Child: "YEAH!"
    Rest of the public:
    3 Human Males, 2 Human Females and 1 Halfling Male look:
    1 Human Male has "queasy" mouth, as if about to throw up
    1 Human Male has closed his eyes and is attempting to cover them with his hands
    2 Goblin Males (RightEye and his oldest son) are unimpressed
    RedCloak, admitting he knows what MitD is:
    Quote Originally Posted by RedCloak, SoD, pg. 88
    I know what you are. You could kill them all if you wanted.
    Xykon's First look at MitD:
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykon, SoD
    "My you're one ugly sonofabitch, aren't you?"
    Xykon's wording of the mind-controlling spell on MitD:
    Quote Originally Posted by Xykon, SoD
    "And if Redcloak ever betrays me, you will devour him whole and spit out that gold amulet he wears."
    Nature of the darkness around MitD:
    Quote Originally Posted by NCftPB, pg. 194a
    Xykon: Did you see him yet?
    RedCloak: He's permanently shrouded in magical darkness. How exactly was I supposed to "see him yet"?


    Section 1b: The Circus Scene
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    The circus scene is, as befits the most MitD-centric moment in the comic, full of clues:
    • The public's reactions: note they are not fear, but disgust. Vomiting, queasy faces and exclamations of ugliness do not match reactions of people scared (that would be brown pants, yellow pools under the stands, and attempts to run away).
    • MitD's Actions: none. it is quite explicitly told he is doing nothing. Activated abilities thus are unlikely to explain this scene
    • Recognition: The show depends on MitD not being recognisable (billed as such), and this aspect reinforced with the guy in robes saying he's never seen anything like MitD before.

    Section 1c: The Escape
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    • It can't be dimension door or blink because those spells have pityable ranges.
    • Teleport and Greater Teleport in the standard rules require the caster to go along with the other subejcts of the spell. We have seen teleport work this way in OOTS here and here, and also here we get to see two teleports work this way. In fact there, there are two casters, presumably one divine (raise dead) and one arcane (teleport). Then Soul Spliced V casts (presumably) Teleport and travels along too (though we don't actually see the spell cast, just the resultant "pop"). Finally when we see Epic Teleport, even then the caster (and his spliced spirits) go along for the ride. So although it doesn't absolutely prove that Rich insists the caster always goes along when they Teleport, it really seems to suggest that is the way it works in OOTS, which is the standard D&D rules. Teleport also requires the caster to know the destination, although when that is not the case, a lucky (i.e. plot-induced) roll in the missed teleportation table could have delivered V & O'Chul to the right place anyway.
      • It has been suggested that a dimensional anchor/lock cast on MitD's box would prevent him from teleporting, but not from casting it. There is no evidence that such spell has been cast on the box, since the visual effect is a green aura and coloring that is not present on either, but MitD himself may have been hit by the stray (Quickened) Dimensional Anchor cast by V during the preceding battle.
      • Alternatively, the Forbiddance spell provides a similar effect to that of dimension lock without the visual component, but would require it to be awkwardly placed to only cover MitD's box, since it doesn't hurt V - this would be a very strange use of a spell designed to cover a whole area from teleport. The chance of MitD remembering the password are slight, too, which would mean he'd be damaged every time he entered the box.
      • Standard teleporting rules do require the caster to touch any other travelers, but the rule is not observed in OotS (see any of the prior examples)
    • Standard 3.5 edition D&D rules say Plane Shift can be cast so that the caster does not travel along for the ride. However it also says you MUST go to another plane, not another place on the same plane and that "precise accuracy as to a particular arrival point on the intended plane is nigh impossible". Also that "creatures must find their own way back". O-Chul and V make no mention of "getting back" and have no apparent means to plane shift. Note that in most occasions plane shift has been depicted with a kind of "window" opening, but not always.
      • It has been suggested that MitD could have plane-shifted them to a good plane (e.g. Souther Gods' domain), and then where teleported back by an agent of good.
    • Wish and the psionic ability "reality revision" are stated as being able to "Transport Travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions".
    • Miracle can "Move you and your allies along with your and thier gear from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error".
    • Limited Wish doesn't say anything about travelling or transportation explicitly.
    • The Epic Spell "Dreamscape" could be interpreted as providing the "Escape" capabilitiy, (see Dream Larva)
    • Psionics has equivalent teleportation abilities to all of the above. DaggerPen compiled a fairly complete list here.


    Section 1d: The Tower Scene
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    It is likely that Rich bent the rules of D&D to show the point about MitD being both amazingly strong and a credible threat to the OotS. Nevertheless, Nerdanel has done an analysis of the feats and strength necessary for the scene to work in accordance to the rules. Find the relevant posts here, here and here.

    Section 1e: MitD's Alignment
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    The best that can be said about MitD's species' alignment is that it is unlikely to be Good, since RedCloak would not have recruited a Good creature to protect the goblin village given his rather dim views on the Good alignment.

    This, however, is a very weak argument, since it can be argued that MitD was not, at the time, Good. Also, consider that MitD's alignment and his species' need not match. As such, knowing MitD's actual alignment brings us no closer to knowing his species' alignment and, thus, for the purposes of this thread, this is a barren path of inquiry.

    The only exception to this is alignment when applied to morality plane denizens (i.e. angels, demons, etc.). Rich commented on this topic in DStP:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant, Round 4 Commentary
    It's important to note that this doesn't necessarily make Celia right in her views. Heck, they're not even all that consistent, considering she has been known to fly off the handle and zap people from time to time. Because, see, Celia isn't a deva or an angel; she's not an embodiment of Law or Good. She can mistakes and screw up, and she can fail to live up to her own ideals, as she does later when she finds herself cheering while Haley shoots people. She wants to be a pacifist, but she can get caught up in the excitement of battle the same as anyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant, Round 7 Commentary
    The entire point of their organization is to blur the lines between the the three fiendish races (demon, daemon, devil) and depict cooperation where normally one would expect backbiting and betrayal. So here, we have a slightly less neutral daemon, a slightly more chaotic devil, and a slightly more lawful demon (one who went to college with devils, even).
    From the above, we know that angels and demons (unlike other outsiders) are embodiments of their own morality planes. Yes, they can change their alignment, but only slightly, and when doing so it serves the purposes of their other alignment. And even then, it is a very rare and line-pushing experiment. The embodiments of the morality planes are as follows:

    {TABLE]Lawful Evil: Baatezu/Devils|Lawful Neutral: Formians, Inevitables, Modrons|Lawful Good: Archons
    Neutral Evil: Yugoloths/Daemons|True Neutral: Rilmani|Neutral Good: Guardinals
    Chaotic Evil: Tanar'ri/Demons|Chaotic Neutral: Slaadi|Chaotic Good: Eladrin[/TABLE]

    Since MitD has performed both good and evil acts, it is very unlikely he is an embodiment of either Good or Evil.

    Section 1f: MitD's Scores
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    It has proven almost impossible to nail down what MitD's scores might be. The general agreement is that his strength must be past 30, his INT must be high (to account for his ability to learn quickly), his Wisdom be low (to account with his innocence and bad judgement) and his Charisma high (to account for the "beautiful" comment).

    However, it is equally likely that he will be a near-epic creature, and as such his scores are going to be all-around high (by human standards).

    Section 1g: (Not) Seeing the Gates
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    MitD's inability to "see" the gates is felt by several participants to be a "clue" about MitD (rather than the alternative possibility, Rule of Funny). However, no explanation that ties MitD's species to the gates has been forthcoming, except when contemplating the idea of MitD being part of the Snarl.

    Alternatively, it has been proposed that since the demiplane in which the Snarl is trapped is designed to null divine magic, and it is third-handedly established in SoD that the gods have difficulty in detecting the rifts, there might be some connection between MitD and the gods that makes him, too, unaware of the rift. Note, however, that MitD has an issue seeing the definitely-not-Snarl-related gate that Xykon installed to stop his zombies from walking into and being destroyed by the rift, so this connection is quite far-fetched.

    Finally, it must be pointed out that MitD doesn't have a problem actually seeing the physical object that is the gate. Instead, his words seemto suggest that he doesn't know it is one. It has been suggested this might be because he thinks the only definition of "gate" is the portal that opens when the spell gate is cast. If he has been told that is a gate, he would be confused as to why he can't see one near the massive wooden thing Xykon and RC keep pointing at.

    Section 1h: Recognising MitD
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    There have been two alternative explanations for the Hunter's + Circus scene and the differing reactions to MitD when looked at.

    On one hand, the Hunter's scene can be seen as a lampshade hanging of MitD's ability to talk, i.e. an express admission of Rich that he shouldn't, just to get it over with and ignored thereafter. The hunters see a creature that is rare, powerful, strangely non-threatening and decide to sell it. They mention it talks, and from then on Rich need not keep pointing out this fact. The circus scene builds on this, letting us know MitD is revolting to look at (or smelled, or some other passive characteristic).

    On the other hand, MitD could be a shifter. The Hunters may have seen a creature that couldn't talk, because MitD was adopting the shape of one, and was sold under the guise of one such creature. The circus crowd would likewise see either a revolting creature, or one that is shifting uncontrollably, such that the change is both revolting and, for some, beautiful (like a kaleidoscope). RC would recognise MitD for what he is, a creature that both shifts and can talk, explaining why he is not surprised by this last fact. Note that while this works on paper as an explanation, no creature that fits it has ever been proposed.

    Section 1i: Suspicion of MitD's involvement in the escape
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    Why wasn't MitD suspected for the escape beyond the demon roaches? RC, the resident know-it-all and most likely to connect the dots was not present for the escape - he used Word of Recall and only returned once the action was over. We also do not know how much Xykon knows about MitD. We only have MitD's word that Xykon knows what he is, and even then, given Xykon's attitude towards book knowledge, he probably only knows MitD's species name and the fact that he is strong, and thus powerful (power is all Xykon cares about). If so, Xykon would not know MitD can teleport, and likely thinks him too incompetent (and too asleep) to be responsible. All in all, the scene seems carefully orchestrated so that MitD could save O-Chul and V without giving himself away.

    Section 1j: The meaning of Fine Line
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    For a wide variety of reasons, a number of participants feel that the "fine line" comment is meant to be a clue about MitD's authorship:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Burlew
    I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one
    The reasoning goes that the phrase itself is unnecesary, the general understanding of it (i.e. Rich didn't create MitD) is addressed well enough in the context, and thus the retreading of the point actually hints to something not quite so clear cut - usually interpreted that Rich did have a hand in MitD's creation (because he helped craft the manual it is in, for example) or because he created it, but not for OotS.

    On a strictly logical way, it is true that the sentence is somewhat redundant in context. However, it is also Rich's way of admitting that, to most of his readers, his assurance that he personally didn't create MitD is a cop-out since when MitD is revealed, he might as well have - the line he intends to draw between fantasy monsters created by him and others is fine indeed.

    As a practical matter, even if the above interpretation is correct, and it is a subtle hint that Rich did in fact create MitD is some indirect way, it has never as a theory born fruit. To date no creatures have been brought forth with "partially authored by Rich" as a point in their favour.


    Version History
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    6.0 Up to date to end of Previous thread
    6.2 Up to date to end of page 10
    6.4 Up to date to end of page 20
    6.9 Up to date to end of page 44
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-07-06 at 06:19 PM.
    My Motto:
    Forum Motto:
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor View Post
    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Section 2: MitD
    Section 2a: Physical Characteristics
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    Age
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    MitD's first appearance in SoD happens "29 years ago" (SoD pg. 49). This is measured back from comic 1, so MitD is at least 30 years old.

    From his keeper's comments about how long he has been fed stew every day, we know MitD spent more than five years in the circus.

    Appearance
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    MitD's appearance is both disgusting and beautiful, to judge from the reactions of the circus crowd (see 1a SoD Canon). It is ugly enough to provoke vomiting in the stands, but still cause someone to exclaim "And yet... beautiful".

    Body
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    RedCloak suggest that he could use MitD as material to create undead, which suggests he has a physical body (e.g. not a fire elemental)

    Diet
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    MitD is almost constantly hungry, thus probably indicating a species that requires food (but it isn't stated).
    Take into account:
    • He is not at all picky about his food, having been shown to eat almost anything ("His palate can't be that refined", dibs on a moldy cheeseburguer in sock drawer).
    • He has preference for stew (See SoD, and here).
    • He feels weird to eat babies (including veal), but not adults.
    • He has eaten scrabble tiles, and apparently didn't find them to his taste (but he was expecting donuts)

    Gender
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    MitD self-identifies as male, forming clubs that don't allow girls. Also, O'Chul calls him "a good man"

    Head
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    • Eyes: MitD has two yellow eyes, next to each other. They are consistently drawn as larger than those of medium-sized creatures, closer to that of ogres (while still being more or less at medium-sized height, but he might be coruched under the umbrella)
    • Face: RC makes reference to stabbing him in the face (War and XPs, page 415a)
    • Mouth: MitD presumably has a mouth, since he has a tongue and teeth (that leave toothmarks in a taco in SoD). It must be rather large, since Xykon instructs him to "devour [RedCloak] whole"
    • Olfactory organ: smells by sniffing while holding the bag close to below his two eyes (but could be his mouth, rather than a nose)
    • Teeth: munches its food. And its voice is deformed while speaking with its mouth full


    Limbs
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    MitD has got stomping ability while holding an umbrella. No specific limbs are identified (feet/paws/tail?), but the use of the verb stomp requires physical limbs, whatever they are. He also leaves tracks, which Belkar can't identify (but he's a lousy tracker). The limbs are also dextrous enough to hold crayons (War and XPs page 415a) and draw (lack of quality may indicate clumsy apendages, or lack of maturity).

    Since he was able to both step on and pull on the rope at the same time, he must have or be able to produce at least two limbs, one of which must be prehensile.

    In the colouring book, he is seen holding umbrella, crayons and paper, suggesting he may have two prehensile appendages.

    Maturity
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    MitD has consistently acted in very immature fashion, which could be his personality, or it could indicate he is a child of his species.
    Take into account:
    • He is over 30 years old (see Age)
    • He hasn't changed all that much in size or personality since his earliest appearance
    • Many creatures (including demons and angels) have a really hard time fitting as MitD because of his child-like behaviour.

    Personal Odor
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    MitD has frequently apologized for his personal odor. This could explain the reaction in the circus, although it would need to address the reason why the odor doesn't affect the public until after he is lighted up.
    • It has been suggested that MitD's personal smell could be a hint towards the Stench ability

    Size
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    Since his first appearance, MitD has fit in a box this size, and under this umbrella. This makes him human-sized or large.
    Take into account:
    • Rich has been known to mess around with sizes of creatures in the comic (Inexplicably large faeries), but to this date he has only made small creatures larger, never larger ones smaller than they should be.
    • MitD could be a young member of his race (see Maturity)
    • He's probably taller than a kobold:
      Quote Originally Posted by War and XPs c.368
      Mitd: "I know! Maybe I'm a kobold!"
      BlueCloak: "You're pretty tall for a kobold"
      MitD: "Maybe I'm two kobolds?"
    • If you do not object to using templates (see 3a: Templated Creature), the Dungeonbred template can be used to reduce his size by one category, theoretically allowing for huge creatures (but does carry the disadvantages of templates)

    Sleep
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    MitD has been shown sleeping in various occasions (in SoD, and after O'chul's and V's teleportation), and has admitted to becoming sleepy, so it is reasonable to assume he requires sleep (but it isn't stated).

    Weight
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    RC was able to lift both MitD and his box onto a cart. This is almost certainly an exaggeration of RC's lifting ability for the purposes of moving the plot forwards, but a detailed examination of the issue was attempted starting here. The conclusion reached is that if Rich wasn't bending the rules, and if the box was made of a light wood (such as pine), and RC was using a spell to boost his strength [Divine Power gives +6], and he has average or slightly above average strength for a goblin (he is unlikely to have more than that, since he is a pure caster), MitD's weight should be that of a medium creature, tops. (See my numbers here)


    Section 2b: Abilities
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    Attack
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    MitD attempts to "hit as lightly as possible" and still sends both Miko and her horse flying through a wall, off a tower and long distance (the tower in nowhere to be seen, the mountains are far away).
    Take into Account:
    • If proposing a "child" or "runt" of a species known for great strength, the dissonance between his undeveloped personality and adult strength needs to be addressed.
    • See here a post examining possible ways the punch could have happened by the rules.


    Defences
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    MitD did not notice 5 attacks from Belkar and feels tickles when attacked by Miko.
    Take into Account:
    • It could indicate piercing/slashing resistance, DR, high AC, high HP or a combination thereof.
    • He got a paper cut from trying to eat a letter, indicating he can hurt himself (e.g. overcoming epic resistance, if he himself is epic, or indicating a natural armour that doesn't protect his insides), or Rule of Funny
    • Miko believes he has DR
    • RC knows he cannot possibly injure MitD by stabbing him in the face (see War and XPs, page 415a)

    Earth Cracking
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    MitD cracks the earth by stomping on it.
    Suggestions:
    • Consequence of his great strength: sending horses flying through walls and for kilometers take about as much strength as causing the Earth to crack.
    • Earthquake ability: like that of an Earth Elemental, or some other specific spell-like ability in that sense.

    Knowledge
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    Even though MitD displays lack of maturity (see 2a: Maturity), he has displayed flashes of brilliance:
    • O'Chul's comment he learnt Go! quickly
    • His ability to tell that a ritual was only the second half of a whole
    • He admits he doesn't actually try to think, and that he lets Xykon and RedCloak think for him
    • If MitD is psionic, it can be explained by hypercognition

    O'Chul's Escape
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    We know from Rich's words (see section 1a) that MitD was responsible for O'Chul's and V's escape.
    Suggestions:
    • Teleportation Spell: in D&D, teleportation requires the spell caster to travel with the targets, and more often than not to be touching the other targets.
    • Wish: Very few creatures can cast wish, but would explain the situation well. In its favour, MitD is surprised when his wishes don't come true (but that could be his child personality).
    • Plane shifting: Many creatures have this spell, but has most of the disadvantages of teleportation, plus O'Chul's and V's escape does not match the effect of plane shift (in that they ended up in the same plane)
    • See also Section 1b for an in-depth analysis of teleportation options in D&D

    Take into Account:
    • MitD may have been hit by V's missed dimension anchor, explaining why he didn't go along if it was a teleportation effect.
    • Plane Shift, in particular, doesn't necessarily affect the caster (it has succesfully been used offensively in OotS)
    • It has been pointed out that if it were a spell, MitD would have had to say its name out loud, which typically a spell requires (but not an extraordinary, spell-like ability or supernatural ability). On the other hand, not all spells have been said out loud in-comic (example: Xykon's mental suggestion in SoD, Redcloak passing his Trial Of Becoming A Hobgoblin with a silent Slay Living), so it doesn't discard a spell either.
    • Other systems have spells or abilities named "Escape"

    Psionics
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    It has been suggested that MitD may have psionic abilities since we never see his limbs holding up objects, and as an avenue to explain his other powers. If he only starts to actively use psionics at the time of escape ("unshackling" his mind due to the stress of the situation), it would also tie with Rich's comment about discovering powers deep inside himself (see Section 1a - Rich's Words). Also, it would explain why he tends to be tired after using his powers.
    Take into account:
    • All three times that psionics have featured in the comic (goblin mind reader, the story of the little psion that could and a guest appearance in SSaDT), the comic has shown a purplish aura around their entire heads. This does not match any of MitD's displays of power. There was a soul knife with red soul knives, but we never see her cast the spell that generates them.
    • During the Go game, his turn starts and end, and yet we don't see him place a counter. But at the circus, he has to rock his box to get to the stew. Rich may have skipped the dialogue where MitD told O'Chul were to place his counter just to reduce the wordiness of that page, though.
    • MitD is unaware of most of his powers, which doesn't suggest his mind is making them happen (so it would only explain the escape, if at all).
    • RedCloak, who knows what MitD is, had to research if psionics existed in OotS-verse. If MitD is psionic, why was it so difficult to know? (it has been suggested he may have templated psionic ability, and as such his psionics not be part of his species). On the other hand, creatures can be psionic or not depending on the setting. RC could have known about the mind flayer in Dorukan's Dungeon, and still not know if psionic powers did exist.
      • If MitD wasn't actively psionic until the escape, it would also constitute an explanation: RC tested him for psionic powers and, finding none, couldn't decide if psionics existed or not.
    • The lack of visible limbs is likely a combination of the minimalistic drawing style of the comic and Rich's desire to not show us what MitD is.
    • MitD had to tip the circus cage to get to the bucket of stew; presumably a psionic creature could simply levitate the bucket (but MitD may be unaware of his abilities)
    • The fact that no hand is seen holding the umbrella is a style issue where the hand is behind the object, rather than around it. Belkar holds his daggers in the same way

    Rain
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    It has been suggested that MitD could have (inadvertently) caused rain to help O'Chul rest

    Raising undead
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    MitD probably does not have the ability to raise undead, but might be used as raw material. At the very least, he does not have 5 levels of cleric, although it has been pointed out he may have the capability but due to his innocence/incompetence he has never used it, leading RC to believe he cannot without gaining cleric levels first. That said, RC would probably have checked MitD's MM entry, and be aware of all its powers, regardless of which one MitD uses.

    Speech
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    the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surpised MitD could speak, and in common (see 1b SoD Cannon)
    • This is usually interpreted as a lampshade: his species can't or won't talk, but Rich changed it for plot purposes.
    • Alternatively, MitD's species could have been confused with a similar species, which while rare and valuable, is not capable of speech.
    • Note that the wording could indicate both species incapable of speech, and species that normally wouldn't talk (like Zodars).

    It has been pointed out that MitD's speech bubbles are black text on white background, unlike demons, who tend to have red-on-black and undead, who tend to have white-on-black. However, there is one demon who has a normal voice, Sabine, so it is probably not a good indicator of species. Rich has confirmed that voice "colour" can mislead.

    Shout
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    MitD can shout loud enough that it gives Belkar pause. This may or may not be an actual shout attack, although neither Belkar nor Haley were damaged, but they may have been Shaken, as in Frightful Presence.

    Summoning Demon Roaches
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    MitD was not responsible for the Demon Roaches following team evil - as per SoD, they first attached to Xykon and RC in an evil dinner where Xykon used to get his coffee (in his pre-Lich days). MitD may have attracted more of them, but not the original group. As such, it is unlikely that their presence indicates anything about MitD. That said, the Demon Roaches are 4th-wall breaking rule of funny most of the time, regardless of their origin.

    Swallow Whole?
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    In SoD, Xykon orders a mind controlled MitD to devour whole RC is RC double crosses Xykon. This might indicate that MitD has a swallow whole ability.
    Take in account:
    • Xykon uses the word devour, not swallow, which allows MitD to chew.
    • Xykon had only just met MitD, and since he isn't interested in reading, he probably would not know what MitD is precisely. Nevertheless, something about MitD (probably a big mouth or similar) suggested to Xykon that MitD would be able to carry out the order.


    Section 2c: Other Characteristics
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    Categories
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    MitD cannot belong to any of the following:
    - NOT a deity (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
    - NOT Construct (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
    - NOT Elemental (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
    - NOT Ooze (has a body)
    - NOT Plant (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
    - NOT Undead (eats, sleeps, etc)
    - NOT Vermin (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)

    Challenge Rating
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    • Rich intends the MitD to be a credible challenge for the heroes - the watchtower scene was included for that reason, as explained by Rich. Since Rich likely has a target level the party will achieve by the time they face MitD, MitD must have a CR at or above this level. As a rule of thumb, CR18 or higher is preferred, Epic levels being better.
    • See also lothos' analysis of MitD's CR

    Connection to the Astral Plane
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    MitD seems to know the Astral Plane's characteristics.
    Considerations:
    • He doesn't remember having been there
    • Xykon is surprised at this
    • It could be just a successful knowledge roll, or that he was taken there at some point in the past
    • In the past, it displayed extreme ignorance of the planes

    Darkness
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    As per NCftPB (see section 1a - Published Canon), the darkness that surrounds MitD is magical in its nature. Xykon's instructions imply that they are independent of MitD, since he can step or leap out of them (i.e. leave them behind)

    Drawing Clues
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    Even though MitD is always in darkness, it has been suggested that by carefully noting the placement of his eyes, and of anything he manipulates, his general shape can be deduced. The general consensus is that he is either walking crouched or has four legs on the floor (from the placing of the stomp), and that he has a long reach (as when pulling on the rope: 9th panel). Take into account that this is debatable, and that MitD has not necesarily been drawn consistently

    Also, it has been brought up multiple times that the go board is a cryptoclue about MitD. Unfortunately, there is no agreement on what image they show, with people having identified it as Tarrasque, PvP's Skull, a demon, or an 8-bit sprite from some NES game (also, one jokingly suggested it looked like Pepe le Pew due to the color scheme). It is likely a case of pareidolia

    Environment
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    The Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surprised to find him deep in a rainforest. This discards rainforest as his environment, but leaves everything else open.

    Family
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    MitD remembers his dad "sort of" as BIG and even a bigger eater than he is.
    Considerations:
    • MitD could have been "adopted" (or even created) by a member of another species completely, just as he is in the wrong environment. If this adoptive parent is of a different alignment from MitD's base species, it could explain MitD's conflict between good and evil.
    • MitD is still young and will eventually be as big as he remembers his father to have been
    • MitD might have a warped mental image of his father, from remembering as "big" when MitD himself was smaller; as such, he may already be as big as his father used to be.
    • MitD is mixed breed, and his father is larger than he will ever be

    Knowledge of MitD
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    MitD is very difficult to identify. Only the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters and RedCloak (see Section 1a) have claimed to know what he is, while what looks like a wizard in the circus audience admitted he'd never seen anything like it. MitD believes Xykon also knows what he is.
    • It has been suggested that the hunters may have confused MitD with a different, less powerful but similar looking species that nevertheless is still rare. There have been no practical examples of this yet. Stereotypical Big Game Hunters, however, are seldom wrong about their prey.

    Mental Resistance
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    In SoD (pg.96), Xykon was able to command MitD (as evidenced by MitD's swirly eyes), indicating MitD is not immune to mind-affecting spells.

    Species
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    MitD was declared by the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters to be "one of these", indicating that there are more than one of him.


    Section 2d: Augmentation
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    A number of ways to increase creatures capabilities to match those shown by MitD have been proposed. All of them have the same general problem: they likely violate Rich's assurance that he didn't invent MitD and that it can be figure out. To illustrate these issues, consider two examples:
    Bingosaurus
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    The argument most commonly cited in favour of augmentations is that it is not a Rich creation if Rich merely uses already existing rules to create MitD, such as adding tempaltes, feats, class levels, etc. But there are rules for making your own monsters, spells, etc.

    Nothing is stopping Rich from making what is for all intents and purposes a Bingosaurus* complete with an insatiable hunger for stew and yellow eyes, using rules that were published prior to comic #100. He will then furnish it with Bingo's epic earthquake (which functions like a regular earthquake except it is much more awesome and can be aimed in a direction), Wish and Bingo's Commanding You To Stop ability, DC100, at will

    *Named after Lord Bingo, original proponent of this counterexample.

    Binks' Mystery Sword
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    Related to the above, the second most common argument in favour of augmentations is that since the rules exist, it can be figured out. By the same logic, a DM could hand a character a custom magic item like Binks' Mystery Sword* and not tell his player what it does because the DM didn't invent it, instead followed the rules, so clearly the player can figure out what it does on his own.

    *Named after Binks, original proponent of this counterexample.


    The augmentation ideas presented so far are:
    Feats
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    When a creature is promoted beyond its base CR, with every 3 HD added, the DM can also add a feat. Of interest to this thread are the two following feats:
    • Mighty Roar: allows a creature, once per day, to make a dreadful roar that renders everyone nearby shaken for x rounds. Pre-requisite: be an animal or magical beast of at least large size.
    • Stamp: allows a creature to make a shockwave with a radius of a number of squares equal to their HD. Creatures within the radius that fail a balance check vs the stamper's attack roll are knocked down; structures are also damaged by the shockwave, which could explain the ground being torn up if one is generous with the definition of 'structure'. Prerequisites: have feet, be at least huge size, and have the trample attack.

    Cons:
    • No Wish feat
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact number of extra HD added by "the DM" is not really guessable.
    • Size issues: MitD is likely Medium sized; while large is possible, huge is likely too big.
    • MitD is clearly lazy, and thus has little canon support for the idea that he has developed beyond the average of his species (quite the opposite, in fact). His father being bigger than he is also argues against this (more HD eventually makes the monster bigger).


    Templated/Mixed lineage Creature
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    A whole range of possibilities, it suggests MitD is a stack of Templates rather than a specific monster type.
    Pros: Can be templated to have:
    • Teleportation
    • Psionics
    • Earthquake
    • Unnerving Gaze

    Cons:
    • No Wish template
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact base type and templates use is not really guessable.
    • Unless the exact combination of templates and base creature has been used elsewhere, it can be argued that an original template stack would be a Rich invention.
    • Its unlikely that a one-in-a-lifetime combination of templates would be so common that the hunters call it "one of these"
    • No actual evidence of MitD having different species parents

    Proposed combinations:

    Pimp my Tarrasque
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    Given the huge number of such combinations suggested for the Tarrasque, this approach is also known as Pimp my Tarrasque:


    Class Levels
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    Only useful to explain the escape scene, it suggests MitD has 18+ class levels of Sorcerer, which would allow him to cast wish even if the base creature normally wouldn't (assuming it has at least 18 CHA).
    Cons:
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has not shown any other spell from those 18 levels
    • It is unexplained how MitD would even gain 18 levels, given his general lazyness
    • It would require MitD to have forgotten he gained those levels ("discovers powers that he didn't even know he had")

    Reincarnation
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    This idea suggests that MitD used to be a powerful spellcaster (level 18 or more) that dies and used a Reincarnation spell to reincarnate as a rare animal.
    Cons:
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since there has been no mention of the possibility of reincarnation in the comic, and it would make figuring out what MitD almost impossible

    Abomination
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    It has been claimed that there is a way for Rich to create his own abomination. Some abomination traits are similar in their description to MitD's eating habits.

    Cons:
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words
    • Almost certainly violates the "didn't create it" clause in Rich's words
    • Abominations are immune to mind control


    Psychic
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    From a third-party book published just months before strip 100, if offers a number of powers similar to teleport and others, except using "psychic powers".

    Cons:
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has shown no psychic abilities, and if he did, they are too easily confused with psionics

    Unbridled Shapeshifter
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    By RAW, a shapeshifting creature can gain a large number of abilities by successive shapeshifting into the correct creatures, gaining their magical powers and access to ways to make those changes permanent. The ur-example of this is Pun Pun, the shapeshifting all-powerful kobold. Combined with some form of convenient amnesia you could create a creature very much like MitD, no matter what powers MitD turns out to posses.

    Cons:
    • Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a)
    • Rich has been very outspoken about his views on this kind of shapeshifting, including a series of articles on how to fix it.

    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-07-11 at 09:47 PM.
    My Motto:
    Forum Motto:
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor View Post
    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Section 3: Proposed Ideas

    Section 3a: Suggestions that Fit the Big Scenes (FBS)
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    This category groups ideas that fit the "big 3" scenes of MitD: the circus scene (particularly the requirement to both be a circus act where nothing is done, and the varied response from the public), the tower scene (that is, the ability to punch a person and a horse through a wall when trying to "hit light") and the escape scene (i.e. teleportation of O'Chul and V).

    The proposals may still have other objections (such as size problems, or simply that the above explanations require stretching the rules of D&D), but must not belong to the discarded categories (see Section 2c: Categories), unless they are somehow exceptional (e.g. an undead that eats burgers and sleeps). It also needs to have been published at or around the time strip #100 was published (September 2004), or have a very plausible explanation of how Rich got hold of an advanced copy.

    Aboleth Mage
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    Pros:
    • 28 Strength
    • Effective caster level 16th would allow him to have greater teleport
    • Appearance: "The aboleth is a revolting fishlike amphibian" but charisma 14 could count as "beautiful" for someone that isn't too nauseated by fish-like beings
    • Can only speak languages that are used underwater - would be surprising to hear him speak out of the water, and in common no less.
      
    • Very rare to be found outside of their natural environment (water)
    • Grows bigger as it ages - father would be bigger than MitD
    • Eating creatures gives him their memories, which would explain why he doesn't like to eat babies (no memories - bland and boring food) and why he likes stew (he never knows what he's going to get, it's a big surprise!)

    Cons:
    This creature could be considered the "almost" FBS suggestion.
    • Strength is almost to the 30 used as rule of thumb for the tower scene, but not quite there
    • Huge, almost small enough to fit in the box - and if made any smaller by age or template, he'd be too weak
    • CR17 is almost to the rule of thumb expected power level
    • 3 eyes - almost the right amount - vertically stacked.
    • Study-based spellcasting is a poor fit for MitD, who is never seen studying spells

    Dread Linnorm (MM2 141)
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    Pros:
    • Huge Strength
    • Wish (Sorcerer Levels)
    • Ugly (with high Charisma)

    Cons:
    • Colossal - requires him to be a runt, which brings problems re: high-level spell access
    • Two Heads - requires a reason why it lost one (e.g. decapitation)
    • Immunity to all spells of the enchantment school

    Hagunemnon (Protean) (SRD or ELH 196)
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    Pros:
    • Great strength (53)
    • teleportation (plane shift) abilities
    • Access to Planar Travel through convenient partial shapeshift into Umbral Blot, which includes greater teleport
    • As a psionic creature, it may have been converted by the means described in the Expanded Psionics handbook, which would give him psionic teleport
    • adequate size
    • his shapeshifting sounds disturbing, but has 34 CHA.
    • Normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand, thus being surprising it talks in common.
    • Its psionic ability to detect thoughts would explain his knowledge of the ritual, probably having heard RC's thoughts on the subject.
    • Fluff implies there are protean newborns, so presumably they have some form of parentage ("Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing")

    Cons:
    • Plane shift doesn't fit well with the escape as shown (see 1b: The Escape), and while greater teleport fits slightly better, it requires a timely shapeshift into the exact appropriate creature. There is no evidence that psionic-class creatures have been converted as per EP handbook.
    • Its powers are psionic-based (see 2b Psionics).
    • Its constant shapeshifting has not been reflected in a change of MitD (mouth and eyes stay roughly the same)

    Hunting Horror (CoC)
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    Pros:
    • CR 20 - powerful enough to be MitD.
    • Strength of 34 - on the lower side, but within acceptable bounds for the tower scene.
    • Hideous form - looks like a "black ropy worm or serpent, rather like a legless dragon... with a single wing rising from the middle of the back and a long sinuous tail trailing behind," but are also "mutable, as some have reported them with two wings instead of one, or two eyes instead of a single three-lobed yellow eye." 6th edition of CoC describes them as "hard to look at" and "continually changing, twitching and writhing".
    • Accompanied by a permanent foul stench that causes Nausea.
    • Has a Roar ability, but that causes damage, so perhaps that doesn't explain the "STOP" after all.
    • Can understand speech, but "rarely speaks," according to the D20 version.
    • Has a Swallow Whole ability, so more than capable of devouring Redcloak.
    • Has a tail that it can use as an appendage, allowing him to smack the ground and "punch" Miko and Windstriker through a wall, but making pulling things or holding small objects difficult.
    • Rare to see it on Earth at all, let alone in a rainforest in the middle of the day.
    • Acquires spells by rolling dice, and picking from a list

    Cons:
    • Defences not that great: AC of 19, plus DR 5/+1, fast healing of 10 - only the last can help explain the "tickle" comment, and not well at that.
    • Acquires spells by rolling dice, and picking from a list
    • Access to teleportation a bit dodgy - some older versions give it more random spell access, but D20 specifies a list of spells that does not include teleportation
    • Damaged by light - explanations vary as to whether it can tolerate a few hours worth of light or if light damages it outright, but a problem either way
    • Too big to fit under either umbrella or box.
    • The total lack of non-wing limbs in the official description doesn't fit the art clues. It's of variable form, though, so it might have limbs.


    Neothelid (SRD or XPH 204)
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    Pros:
    • Fairly high strength (30)
    • Psionic Teleport at will
    • Vomit-inducing, since it's a gigantic worm with tentacles
    • Heavy eating
    • Rarely communicates in a meaningful way
    • Its ability to Trace Teleport would explain how it knew where to send O'Chul and V

    Cons:
    • Difficulty explaining the earthquake and the stomp, lacking legs.
    • Defences not that great
    • No eyes
    • Gargantuan

    Schlock Mercenary's Carbosilicate Amorph
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    Pros:
    • Can use a teraport to teleport
    • Incredible strength and fighting abilities. Invulnerable to anything short of plasma weapons.
    • Looks like a pile of poo
    • Endearing and adorable
    • Fits under the umbrella easily, but his dad could have been bigger if he had eaten recently
    • Famous for his unbridled appetite.
    • Rich could probably secure copyright from Howard Tayler

    Cons:
    • Rich probably wouldn't use a SF character from another comic in his fantasy comic.


    Slaad (ELH 217)
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    White/Black slaads only.
    Pros:
    • Very strong, epic defences
    • Can teleport others
    • Disgusting appearance (humanoid toad)
    • Not inmune to mind-affecting spells
    • White one fits in the box/umbrella. Black only in the box.

    Cons:
    • Tricky reproduction cycle means black/white slaads are unlikely to have a "father" (unless it is of the foundling variety).
    • MitD would have to be over 300 years old, having evolved through green, grey and death slaad varieties. This does not mesh well with his mental characteristics. (unless Rich has bent the reproduction flavor text)
    • It may be Product Identity (listed as such in d20.org, but not in the WotC legal documentation).
      • Even if it is, it may not be impossible for Rich to use it for free, unlike trademarked creatures.
    • Can talk common, and thus wouldn't surprise the hunters that he can talk. Unless, that is, slaads usually talk like this (but this is probably Rule of Funny)
    • It may be too recognisable as a humanoid toad to fit the wizard's comment in the circus scene.


    Uvuudaum
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    Pros:
    • greater teleport available 3 times a day as an SLA explains the escape
    • very high strength (39), is very ugly but has extremely high charisma (46)
    • large bonuses to knowledge:arcana and spellcraft explains understanding of the ritual
    • Large size, so fits in the box (not so much under the umbrella)
    • Normally communicates with telepathy, not by speaking, so it's surprising it talks.
    • A confusion aura could explain reactions in the circus, particularly if it's weakened by MitD being a youngster of the species.

    Cons:
    • Might not have eyes or mouth (unmentioned in description, not present in pictures)
    • His confusion aura should give everyone missing saves around him swirly eyes, but no such thing is visible in the circus scene.



    Section 3b: Frequently Proposed Unlikely Ideas
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    These ideas have been frequently brought up, but they fail in a major way that presents a major problem. If you are considering them, please address the problem listed in your initial post.

    Deity
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    First, note that "a god" is not a specific proposal. There are hundreds to pick from, many with wildly different capabilities. Furthermore:
    • If they have D&D stats, they will have Divine Ranks, which automatically gives them immunity to mind control (see Section 2c: Categories). This applies even to demigods (rank 1-5).
    • They can speak every language - unsurprising they can talk
    • Why would the SBGH think there is a market in selling deities?
    • Any deity RC would consider appropriate for his team (Evil/Neutral ones) can Animate Dead, or copy it through Miracle.


    Grue
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    Can challenge any lone adventurer, has insatiable appetite and sparse descriptions mention it being horrible. However, it wouldn't desire to be lighted as MitD does, and it is not known to have magic (e.g. teleportation). Note that MitD has been in the light before joining team evil, both in the jungle and specially in the circus, and has never shown any discomfort from being in the light.

    Pun-Pun & Family
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    Pun-Pun isn't really something that can be classified as "one of those", and it seems likely that Rich made a joke of this idea when MitD suggested he might be a kobold, only to be told he's to tall for a kobold

    Snarl jr
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    Probably the #1 proposed idea, the "son-of-Snarl" has a major problem: it does not match Rich's words that MitD is a monster someone else (i.e. not him) invented (see Section 1a: "it isn't something I just made up for the story" & "I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually"). Snarl has also not displayed any form of teleportation magic, nor any particular appetite, nor need to sleep.

    Furthermore, Snarl has been kept a major secret - it's unlikely that the hunters would know, or that they have seen so many Snarl Jr.s running around they can talk about not having seen "one of these".

    Tarrasque (SRD or MM 240)
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    Tarrasque is an iconic creature, famed for eating a lot and sleeping a lot. Unfortunately, there is no particular reason to think that MitD is an iconic creature, and Tarrasque brings several other issues to the table, the most important of which is its lack of teleportation/wishing abilities. Other issues: Tarrasque is traditionally unique and non-reproducing (not part of a species) and far bigger than can fit under an umbrella.


    Section 3c: Copyrighted Ideas
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    All ideas listed here, regardless of how well they fit, have a major problem: they are trademarked, or otherwise unavailable for Rich's use due to legal issues (see Section 5a: Inappropriate Topics)

    Boggart (Harry Potter)
    Diawolf
    Domo-kun
    Father (KND)
    FF Black Mage
    FF Red Mage
    Godzilla & pals
    Gozer (Ghostbusters)
    Haggunenon (HHGTTG)
    Heffalump
    Kirby
    My Little Pony
    Q (from Star Trek)
    Snorlax
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    A great fit, since "They can throw incredibly powerful punches and cause immense earthquakes", is known for its huge appetite (including his ability to eat moldy food) and its sleeping. It also grows from a much smaller pokemon, Munchlax, and fits in the box as an adult (6' 11''). Using Metronome, it could have a plot-casuality induced access to "escape from battle" abilities.

    Shadow (from Babylon 5)
    SMT3 and Persona 3 and 4 (from Megami Tensei)
    Skull (from PvP)
    Tonberri
    Vatch (from Witches of Karres)
    Vorlon (from Babylon 5)
    Weeping Angel (from Dr. Who)
    Ygramul (Neverending Story)
    Yoshi
    Zoidberg

    Section 3d: Proposed ideas
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    Ideas that have been proposed, but cannot explain all 3 major MitD scenes (circus; tower; escape. See 3a)

    Akvan Div Prince
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    Too tall. probably not ugly enough. Might be too recent.

    Anaxim (SRD or ELH 158)
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    Construct, no teleportation.

    Astral Dragon
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    Too big when powerful enough (if it ever is powerful enough - top strength of 24 is insufficient); too weak when the right size. Too recognisable due to being a dragon for it to fit the circus scene. Fluff about staying a child until mating does fit MitD.

    Astral Dreadnaught
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    only one eye, gargantuan, can't explain the escape

    Asura (high CR homebrew)
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    Can cause earthquake, looks weird. Can't explain the escape. Unsurprising to hear it speak in common. Too many eyes.

    Atropal (SRD or ELH 159)
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    Undead: doesn't eat or sleep.

    Audrey II
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    Not that ugly (people flock to see it), unclear if it can teleport others/grant wishes (up for interpretation), unclear if its strength is sufficient to punch people through walls and send them flying.

    Bauhei
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    Unclear if it can be called "one of these". Doesn't fit the circus scene (awe doesn't induce vomiting)

    Aurumach Rilmani
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    Too humanoid looking to fit the circus scene.

    Baku
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    28 STR, probability travel works as teleport or a critical roll, fairly unrecognisable. However, also not specially disgusting looking.

    Barghest (SRD or MM 22)
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    Pros:
    • Eats a lot, and gets stronger as he eats (reference)
    • Greater Barghest has dimension door

    Cons:
    • Not really all that strong, (max 20)
    • No earthquake ability
    • Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well
    • can speak (but not in common)


    Black Troll
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    Large, ugly as every troll, but looking demonic on top. Can cast Teleportation without error, explaining the escape (but not what the hell a troll is doing with that spell and 10 INT and CHA). Unfortunately, not quite strong enough.

    Brachyurus (SRD or ELH 170)
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    Strong and relatively ugly, but can't explain the escape

    Brainstealer Dragon
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    Old ones are strong and have spells that can explain the escape, but are too big to fit in the box. Young ones that do fit are too weak. All of them can explain the circus scene. Published a year after strip #100

    Braxat (MM2 37)
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    Not particularly strong, CR9 and can only explain the escape with Dimension Door.

    Brood Keeper (MM3)
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    Can't explain the escape, the fear aura doesn't fit the circus scene, too big, not strong enough. Rich may have had a hand in their creation.

    Bigfoot
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    Very strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.

    Centaur (SRD or MM 32)
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    Not strong enough, can't explain the earthquake, the tower scene, the circus scene or the escape.

    Cherub (four-faced version)
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    Pros:
    • Strength of 36.
    • "four-sided head with the faces of a lion, ox, eagle, and man," which can be disgusting
    • Wish as an SLA, easily explains the escape
    • Has earthquake as a power, could explain the stomp.
    • Large size
    • Can be advanced to gargantuan, meaning that MitD's "father" could be either another larger cherub who was raising him or just a god specifically.
    • Strange to find a cherub in a rainforest.

    Cons:
    • Like most angelic hosts and demonic armies, it is hard to understand how it went unrecognised in the circus act - most people would have heard of them at their religious service of choice.
    • OotS Cherubs don't look like that.
    • Four sets of eyes
    • Unsurprising it can talk common (can talk all languages)
    • SBGH would probably not likely sell divine beings into slavery
    • Immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities.
    • Doesn't really fit with why Xykon and Redcloak expect him to be "scary" and eat children


    Chi You
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    Vaguely defined. Weird looking, but not particularly revolting. Can speak.

    Coeurl
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    CR4, nowhere near powerful enough. Can't explain the escape

    Corpse Tearer Linnorm (MM2 141)
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    Strong and with access to miracle, but only through cleric spells, which would give him Animate Dead, which MitD is known not to be able to cast

    Crystalle
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    Can cast Wish, but limited since the ioun stone has limited charges. STR 33. Cons: appearance not particularly disgusting; Elemental: doesn't eat or sleep.

    Cuatl
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    Cannot explain the escape (caster level not high enough), since it has cleric abilities, should be able to help RC

    Dao (MoP 172)
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    aka "earth genie". Pros:
    • Can grant wishes
    • Can cast earthquake
    • Has a "shove" ability to push enemies

    Cons:
    • Unsurprising it can talk
    • CR6, little strength, no defences
    • Not unusually ugly
    • Unclear how father would be "bigger and hungrier"

    Disenchanter
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    Not strong enough, cannot explain the escape, not powerful enough to be Xykon's Ace in the Hole.

    Displacer Beast (MM 60)
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    Can't explain the escape, not strong enough

    Dragon (SRD or MM 68 + most MMs)
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    Pros:
    • Decent defences
    • they like to eat and sleep

    Cons:
    • They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
    • They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.

    Draknor
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    Sprouts from the ground, but we have seen MitD in high floors of towers.

    Dream Larva (SRD or ELH 161)
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    Pros:
    • Worst Nightmare ability explains circus' reactions (as long as it is a 'young' dream larva, so that it is not immediately lethal)
    • Very strong (42), high CR, defences and DR
    • Dreamscape allows teleportation, with a certain amount or rules bending (see here for an explanation)

    Cons:
    • Immune to mind-affecting effects
    • Dreamscape doesn't explain the escape all that well
    • Not known for its appetite, or its need to sleep
    • Unclear if a young dream larva can even exist, and would be less lethal than an adult one.


    Earth Elemental (SRD or MM 97)
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    Unstated how it would cause the escape, it cannot provide material for undead

    Efreet
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    Not powerful enough in D&D, regardless of how powerful they were in the original mythology

    Enveloper (1e FF)
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    Insufficient strength, it's main ability of absorbing powers (thus explaining the escape scene), would also give MitD knowledge that would be at odds with his known naïvety and ignorance.

    Ephemeral Hangman (ToM 161)
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    Pros:
    • Looks like a mass of black tentacles centered around a large maw and a trunklike body.
    • Large, but when in darkness or shadowy illumination, it can fit into spaces that appear too small for it
    • The base species prefers eating children "and others too small and weak to fight back"

    Cons:
    • Can't explain the escape scene
    • Probably too weak: CR7, STR 22

    Epic Dragon (SRD or ELH 181)
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    Pros:
    • Have access to Wish
    • Very strong
    • Like most dragons, it likes to eat and sleep

    Cons:
    • They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
    • Beautiful (sp. prismatic)
    • They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.

    Fhoimoren Giant
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    No explanation for the escape. Weak defences.

    Fiendwurm (MM2 99)
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    strong and known for eating constantly, can't talk, can send people to the Abyss, but that explains the escape very badly if at all, and lack of limbs and gargantuan size are problematic.

    Fihyr, Greater
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    too many eyes, not strong enough, not challenging enough, can't explain the escape.

    Formian Myrmarch
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    Not strong enough to explain the tower scene

    General Ox
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    Sorcerer with access to 9th level spells, and STR 36. Doesn't quite match the circus scene's public reactions

    Genie/Djinn (SRD or MM 114)
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    while able to cast wish, they can talk, they are not particularly ugly, and they're nowhere near powerful enough for MitD

    Ghour
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    Decently strong, but insufficient CR and too big. Being a demon, it's morality and 'father' doesn't match well MitD's.

    Giant Space Hamster
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    Not strong enough, no magical powers, not ugly enough for the circus scene

    Gibbering Orb (SRD or ELH 191)
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    Can't stomp due to lack of limbs. Shouldn't leave tracks. Too many eyes and mouths. No explanation for Escape, except far-fetched "ate someone with access to wish the day before".

    Girard (Member of the Order of the Scribble)
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    Unsurprising it can talk, wouldn't be exhibited as a circus freak, wouldn't be hunted by the SBGH, is now known to be dead.

    Glabrezu (SRD or MM 43)
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    Pros:
    • Access to wish
    • Fairly powerful

    Cons:
    • Too big
    • No parent
    • Unlikely to change morality (since it is a denizen of a morality plane)
    • Low CR

    Gloom
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    Fairly strong, very powerful, but has no eyes, shadow walk isn't quite good enough to explain the escape and "tall, very dark, elf-eared person with a cloak" is not exactly "I've never seen anything like it before"

    Goristro
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    Huge, and can't teleport, or explain the escape in any other way. See also Pit Fiend.

    Gozilla (& family)
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    Too big, unclear how they account for the escape. Copyright issues possible

    Gray Render (SRD or MM 138)
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    Too many eyes, and unclear how it accounts for the escape.

    Grendel
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    Unclear how it accounts for the escape scene, except if it were demon-spawn due to conversion to D&D, which is a very big stretch. Difficulty addressing its strength, defences, earthquake ability.

    Grey Slaad (MM 231)
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    can teleport people both within a plane and between planes, but so-so strength

    Guardinal, Leonal
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    Not strong enough, aura of fear for evil creatures should have been seen in the comic.

    Gug (CoC)
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    (From Call of Cthulhu) Very ugly, and causes loss of sanity when looked at. Has a small chance of knowing how to teleport, but is not strong enough, particularly if young version is assumed due to size problems.

    Ha-Naga (SRD or ELH 195)
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    Access to wish, and fairly strong although, being gargantuan, too big for the umbrella (when moving), and lack of limbs make several scenes difficult to explain (like pulling on the rope). Not particularly vomit-inducing. Proposing a child version reduces the strength bellow appropriate amount. Psionic powers could explain the earthquake, but not the tower scene.

    Half-Giant (SRD or XPH 200)
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    Strong and psionic, but can talk, unclear how it accoutns for circus scene and the escape.

    Hellfire Wyrm (MM2 125)
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    Dragon, and thus can't explain the circus scene properly. Too big (huge)

    Hephaestus
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    God: Immune to mind control

    Hoary Hunter (SRD or ELH 197)
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    Very strong, can plane shift, but not revolting enough to explain the circus' reactions

    Hollyphant
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    Not quite strong enough, can't explain the escape, too adorably cute for the circus scene

    Hunefer
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    Undead; due to paralysing aura can't explain the circus scene.

    Illithid
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    Not strong enough, can't explain the escape

    Illurien (MM5)
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    Female, Insufficient strength

    Ilsidaur
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    Demonic (difficulty explaining alignment, probably no parent), difficulty explaining the circus scene. Specific stats linked are too recent for MitD (older versions may exist, but have not been presented)

    Incubus
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    Not powerful enough, difficulty changing alignments, can't explain the circus scene

    Infernal (SRD or ELH 164)
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    Immune to mind affecting spells, unclear how it accounts for the escape scene (it's greater teleport is self-only). Can animate dead, which RC claims MitD cannot.

    Jaberwock
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    Difficult to gauge if it fits or not, since the jaberwocky is never really described. However, being unique, it doesn't fit the comment of MitD being "one of these".

    King-Kong descendant
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    Problem addressing strength and size at the same time. Cannot explain the escape scene.

    Klurichir
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    Several versions exists: the one that are strong enough cant explain the escape, and viceversa. Demonic, so has some issues with Mit'd morality.

    Kyton, Eremite
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    Can't explain the escape, since it can only self-teleport. Created after strip #100

    Lamassu, Celestial
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    Not strong enough, can cast cleric spells.

    Lava Children
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    Can't explain the circus scene (neither ugly nor particularly strange), unclear if it can explain the escape

    Lethus Dragon
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    publication date 7 years after strip #100. Otherwise, fits the FBS rather nicely, but not the general fluff of MitD

    Li Lung (Earth Dragon) (OA)
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    Pros:
    • Yellow eyes
    • Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and correctly sized up to young adult
    • Damage reduction
    • Earthquake AND a powerful roar
    • Plane Shift

    Cons:
    • plane shift doesn't explain the escape well
    • Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
    • As a young adult, it is not powerful enough

    Marut
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    Construct, has a vendetta against undead, embodiment of a morality plane

    Nabassu (WotC book previews or Fiendish Codex 1)
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    Not particularly strong, can only teleport themselves, and kill any level-1s that look at them, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act.

    Neh-Thalggu (SRD or ELH 206)
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    incorporeal

    Neo-otyugh (2e MM?)
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    Can't explain the escape. Unclear strength (otyugh is definitely too weak). Too many eyes (3).

    Nessie the Loch Ness Monster
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    Too big for the umbrella, can't explain the escape scene, difficulty existing in dry land

    Nightmare Beast (MM2 161)
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    Pros:
    • Fairly strong
    • spends most of its time looking for food, and then sleeping
    • Dimension door
    • Can't talk

    Cons:
    • Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well
    • Red eyes
    • Everyone in the city should've been having terrible nightmares

    Oni, Go-Zu and Me-Zu
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    Several varieties, none really strong enough, and with no way to explain the escape.

    Onyx Worm
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    not strong enough, can't explain the escape.

    Ophan Angel
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    Good stats, but hundreds of eyes, and no good explanation for the escape.

    Outsider, The (H.P. Lovecraft)
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    undead

    Paizo Golem
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    Construct. Can't explain the escape scene or the circus scene. Created 5 years after strip #100

    Phaerimm (Monsters of Faerun 70)
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    Very, very ugly, access to wish through sorcerer levels, but not strong enough for the tower scene, and has no eyes.

    Phasm
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    Telepathic, so surprising it can speak. Not strong enough, can't explain the escape.

    Pit Fiend (SRD or MM 57)
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    Pros:
    • Strong, good defences
    • Highly skilled in Knowledge Arcane, -Religion, -Planes and in Spellcraft which would explain how the MitD could identify the ritual with merely a glance.
    • Access to Wish

    Cons:
    • Pit Fiends probably don't have children and aren't child-like. (From Roy's Archon's words here, it seems OotS-verse has normal "advancement" of celestial beings. On the other hand, two demons have mentioned parents)
    • It is not surprising it can talk.
    • It can reanimate the dead
    • Circus scene presents two problems: demonic creatures are not difficult to recognise (in a broad sense, if not the specific type), and the reaction one would expect is fear, not vomiting.
    • Rich's comments in W&XPs seem to indicate that morality planes creatures can't change alignments more than slightly.

    Planetar Angel (SRD or MM 11)
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    Has cleric levels

    Psammead
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    Can grant wishes, but is not strong, is too small and being damage by water is something that does not match well with MitD's life in the rainforest. Also, Psammeads cannot grant their own wishes, so it cannot explain the earthquake or the tower scene.

    Qlippoth
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    Specifically, the Augnagar: explains circus and tower, but can't explain the escape. Immune to mind control.

    Quaraphon Bully(MM3)
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    Not strong enough, no explanation for the Escape, too many eyes.

    Reality warper (e.g. Superman's Fifth-Dimensional Imp)
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    Their reality revision power would explain the escape scene, but not the tower scene. A reality warper can cause anything they desire to become true, but in the tower scene, the exact opposite of MitD's desires (to hit as lightly as possible) happened.

    SCP-682
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    Published in 2007, didn't exist during comic #100. Can't explain the escape (except by an undefined unrestricted ability to adapt). The personalities are very different. Arguably too powerful to be MitD.

    Shadow Dragon (Draconomicon 191)
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    Pros:
    • It can cast Dimension Door as a supernatural ability once per day.
    • Its size is Large as a young adult and adult, and Medium if it is juvenile.
    • It has damage resistance 5 when it becomes a young adult.
    • It's Shadowy and gets 9/10ths concealment from this....

    Cons:
    • Not incredibly strong
    • Doesn't explain the earthquake or the escape

    Shedu, Greater (FF)
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    Not strong enough. Unclear what its stats are in 3.5. Not surprising it can talk.

    Shoggoth (CoC)
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    Unclear if it can explain the escape, it may drive the public of the circus insane.

    Shadowcloak Elder
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    Shadow Blend doesn't match MitD's instructions to stay in the shadows (other than in Xykon's tower), not quite strong enough, can't talk, can't explain the escape.

    Shirokinukatsukami
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    Not enough strength (20), can't explain the escape due to only self-teleporting

    Siabrie
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    Insufficient strength, female, beautiful, can't account for the escape.

    Snark
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    Cannot explain the escape scene, and most likely cannot explain the earthquake or tower scenes (although the descriptions are vague)

    Solar (SRD or MM 12)
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    Cons:
    • Solars don't really have children and aren't child-like.
    • It is not surprising it can talk.
    • It can reanimate the dead

    Sphinx (SRD or MM 232)
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    Not really strong enough; the suggested idea was a kind of rock sphinx, but that can't be found in the stat'ed lists.

    Starspawn (aka Son of Cthulhu)
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    Drives people looking at him insane, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act. Strength high, but not impressively so.

    Sun Wukong
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    Talks, no father, not part of a group, vegetarian.

    Titan (SRD or MM 242)
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    Pros: High Strength, mythologically, the Titan Uranus ate his children.
    Cons: The only way to rescue O'Chul is by using Maze, which fits badly. It wouldn't be surprising it can talk.

    Titan, Elder
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    Not surprising it can talk. Can't explain the circus.

    Troll
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    Not strong enough, can't explain the escape, has difficulty explaining the circus (trolls are fairly common creatures, not something that unrecognisable).

    Truly Horrid Umber Hulk (MM 248)
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    Fairly strong, confusing gaze might explain the circus' reactions. However, doesn't have teleportation abilities, or earthquake.

    Tulani Eledrin
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    Too pretty and elf-looking for the circus scene. Not quite strong enough. Can cast clerical spells.

    Two-headed Cyclops
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    Two heads, but only one eye each, lazy & fairly ugly, but can't explain the escape and are not that strong. They can also speak, but only elven, not common.

    Ulgurstasta Sorcerer
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    Undead. Eats (swallows whole) bodies to produce undead, so should have been able to help RC. Gargantuan. Defences too weak to explain the Tower scene or Belkar's attack.

    Ultroloth
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    Demonic (morality problems), insufficient strength & defences, can't explain the escape

    Uluu Thalongh
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    Not surprising to be found in a jungle/rainforest. Unclear if it accounts for the escape.

    Umbral Blot (Blackball)
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    Construct, too weak (Str 10) for the tower scene. Can't explain the earthquake's stomp. Appearance doesn't match circus reactions.

    Umpleby (1st ed FF)
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    Can't explain the circus scene, or the escape.

    Vasuthant (MM3 182)
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    Undead. Can't explain the escape

    Vaarsuvius
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    Created for the comic. Doesn't eat meat. Not strong enough. Explanation that turns a wizard into MitD by means of the Snarl is completely unlikely and unsupported by evidence

    Vermiurge (SRD or ELH 226)
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    revolting sight, but can speak and is immune to mind-affecting spells.

    Void Yai Oni
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    Can't explain the escape

    Warforged (Eberron or MM3 190)
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    Construct

    Wendigo (FF 186)
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    Very strong, fairly ugly, famously hungry creatures. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.

    Wild Things
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    Cannot explain the escape

    Wumpus
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    Doesn't explain the escape.

    Yali
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    Strong, can psionic teleport, but cannot explain the circus scene.

    Yeti
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    Very strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.

    Xor-Yost (Planar Handbook 122)
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    Can't explain the escape

    Zodar (FF 199)
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    Pros:
    • Very strong
    • Can cast wish once in a lifetime, and any spell three times in a lifetime
    • Human-sized
    • Invulnerable to all damage except bludgeoning explains his resistance to Belkar's and Miko's attacks.

    Cons:
    • Does not explain the circus scene, since it basically looks like a man in a black armor
    • The official version of Zodar is a construct, which would discard him; there is, however, an unofficial version that retains the 2.0 version that was monstrous, and that existed before the official one.


    Section 3e: Light-Hearted Ideas
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    These ideas are not meant to be taken seriously, and were added to this post only because they amused me enough I wanted them recorded for posterity. Please don't read too much into them (or what they say about my sense of humour)
    • Inmune to blades, including scissors, but suffers from papercuts?
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      Must be a Rock
    • The fearsome Gazebo
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      HotAndCold explained:
      • A gazebo is obviously a powerful monster, devouring the story's PC without any chance of rebuttal.
      • It takes no damage from a +3 arrow, just as MitD apparently takes no damage from Miko's or Belkar's attacks.
      • Would you recognize a gazebo's tracks?
      • Or expect to find one in a jungle and even speaking in Common, for that matter?
      • It is, of course, a juvenile gazebo, explaining its roughly Medium size, rather than its being large enough for, y'know, people to hang out in it.
      • I... guess he could be a particularly ugly gazebo? Although technically speaking, the gazebo's never actually described in the story beyond its dimensions, color, and the pointiness of its top. So I guess one could argue the gazebo's horrific appearance.
      • The description states that the PC "awakened" the gazebo, implying that it was sleeping. Perhaps it had recently used one of its mighty and tiring abilities!
    • A Fanboy
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      Truly grotesque creatures, Fanboys have been known to consume vast quantities of whatever they get their hands on (including mouldy cheeseburgers), while skulking in the darkness of their 'boxes'. When inserted into fantasy fiction, they often wield great quantities of inexplicable power (Mary Sue Syndrome) and have difficulty remembering minor plot details (Gate? What gate?) They are truly the most fearsome creature any Creator can face, and yet are beautiful in that a Creator would be nothing without them. And of course, the monstrous and twisted exterior hides an innocence ill-befitting a horrendous beast, and a niceness of character little understood by those around, often causing them to be bullied by lesser souls in the vicinity.

      We are all MitD in the quiet corners of our souls.

    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-07-07 at 04:08 PM.
    My Motto:
    Forum Motto:
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor View Post
    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    (There is no section 4)
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-07-06 at 11:22 AM.
    My Motto:
    Forum Motto:
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor View Post
    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Section 5: Thread Information


    Section 5a: Thread Rules
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    This is a curated thread, and as such obeys the following rules:

    Curator
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    I, Grey Wolf, am the curator of the thread.
    Responsibilities:
    • Maintain the thread
    • Remember arguments and canon
    • Answer polite questions about MitD and the thread


    What I can't do
    • I have no official authority
    • I am not a moderator
    • I cannot ban discussion of issues I consider settled
    • I cannot prevent certain topics from being discussed (but I can publicly withdraw from them); however, see also section on Inappropriate Topics below
    • I cannot prevent any given poster from participating (but can Ignore them)
    • I cannot make executive decisions on what is or is not included in the first post outside the guidelines stated in this post.


    Adding information to the first post
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    To add something to the first post needs two positive votes to do so. "Postive votes" means two more people in favour of the idea than against it.

    In normal operation, that essentially means convincing me to add it. The original proponent and me make the 2 votes, assuming no-one objects. If I disagree, the proponent will then need two other posters to agree with him/her (assuming no-one else but me disagrees). And so on: if 3 people are opposed, five need to be in favour, etc.

    Why not simple majority? Because that is perilously close to a draw. With only one vote up or down, someone might come in a day later and vote against the idea would mean that we open the door to having to continually add and remove things from the first post - I want to prevent that as much as possible. This way, a vote against the change coming after the change still leaves a simple majority in favour of it (if would take two votes against the change after the fact for it to be reverted).

    The only exception to the rule is the refreshes. When I do a refresh of the first post (usually at the end of every page divisible by 10), I will not require to get anyone to agree with me; instead, I will publish a list of all changes as I make them, and when it is over, two objections will be enough to remove a change. For those doing the math at home, that is only one positive vote to remove it (I'd naturally be opposed, since I just added it), but since it got added only with one vote (mine), it's fair to remove it also with only one vote.

    For major reworking of the first post, such as the issue with the definition of FBS, removing or adding whole sections, etc, it will need to be put to general vote. To request the voting to happen, you need the normal +2 votes.


    Inappropriate Topics
    Spoiler
    Show
    The following topics are considered by consensus inappropriate for the thread. Note that no mod has weighted on either, so the easiest way forward if you want to discuss them is to first get mod approval:
    • Intellectual Property ("copyrighted") creatures not belonging to WotC. Due to section "Inappropriate Topics", subsection "Professional Advice" of board rules, discussion of laws is verboten in this forum. Since the biggest objection to copyrighted creatures is whether or not Rich would be legally allowed to use them, every such creature proposed quickly devolved into a discussion of applicable laws, which is not allowed. For the purposes of this thread, any creature created after Mickey Mouse (1923) is currently under copyright in the US.
    • MitD's personal alignment: not that of his species, but his personally. Consensus is that his alignment cannot be tied to that of his species (see section 4a). It is a separate enough topic that it should have its own thread. If V can have a thread for gender and a separate one for alignment, MitD can have one for his species (this one) and a separate one for his alignment. At least until the mods say otherwise.

    Section 5b: Voting Rules
    Spoiler
    Show
    Major changes to the first post may be put to consensus vote. In those cases, the following rules will be followed:
    • Semi-public vote: votes will be PM'ed to me, the curator, to prevent the thread from being spammed by multiple short "vote for X" posts. I will compile all votes in the original voting post for verification and record keeping. To prevent fraud, please be ready to reaffirm your vote if someone else PMs you to ask about it.
    • Multiple votes per person: you can vote for more than one option. Do so in order of preference.
    • Vote counting: will not be first past the post; instead, alternative vote system will be used.
    • Vote length: Until a day passes without anyone else voting.
    • Voting is binding: if you vote for extra work, be prepared to do the extra work. If extra work is voted for, but no-one does it, the option will be discarded and runner-up will be done instead.
    • Voting options: If you feel the options are not to your liking, you can vote for a new option by describing it in your post. Give it a letter for ease of voting (and pithy name, if you can think of one).
    • Changing Votes: You can change your vote at any time before the end of the voting.


    Section 5c: FAQ
    Spoiler
    Show

    Do I have to read all of the first post before jumping in?
    Spoiler
    Show
    No, but you should exercise good sense and read the sections most likely to be related to what you are about to post.

    If you want to propose a creature, scan the proposed creatures list to see if it is already there, and read both section 3a (to see how your idea stacks up against the current "best of the crop") and the frequently proposed (in case your idea is already there - in this last case, you need to address all the cons listed in your first post).

    If you want to propose an explanation for a MitD characteristic, check section 2 for it, and see what the general consensus of the thread for the characteristic is. If it is a scene, rather than a characteristic, you may have read the whole section to see where that scene is involved.

    For other situations, reading section 4 and this FAQ is a good start. If in doubt, you can ask me, the curator, for guidance to the best sections to read.

    When is the first post updated?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Updates of details that strike me as important, typos, small corrections and other quick things can happen at any time. But, time permitting, every ten pages (at the end of page 10, 20, 30 & 40) I do "first post refreshes" where I add all new proposed ideas, and I may add entire new sections. See rules for the refreshes in section 5a.

    When is a proposal added to the first post?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Proposals are added during first post refreshes (every 10 pages, unless I am very busy). For a proposal to be added, it needs to meet the following:
    • Be minimally defended. If just the name is mentioned, it won't get added
    • Not meant as a joke. If it was meant as one, it will only be added if I find it exceptionally funny (or with two positive votes).
    • Not retracted by the author. If the author retracts it and no-one else is in favour, it won't get added.

    Why is my idea not a FBS?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Probably because it doesn't meet the requirements which by consensus are:
    • Have an explanation for the escape. Current standard is "at least as good as teleport"
    • Have an explanation for the Tower scene. Current standard is Strength 28+, and defences decent enough to ignore Miko's attack
    • Have an explanation for the Circus scene. Must explain both the act (an unrecognisable "IT" that just stands there) and the reactions (vomiting, nausea, and other indications of disgust)
    • Not belong to any of the categories in section 2c - categories, unless it is an exception to the reasons listed.

    Wouldn't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be legal under fair use or parody?
    Spoiler
    Show
    A detailed answer would count as legal advice, and can't therefore be further discussed (see Section 5a - Inappropriate topics). Thread consensus is that neither fair use nor parody are applicable to MitD, but agree or disagree, discussion of IP non-D&D monsters is not allowed in this thread per the board rules.

    Can't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be discussed, ignoring the legal status and only discussing its pros and cons?
    Spoiler
    Show
    In theory, yes, but in practice the biggest con is its legal status, especially if the creature is a half-decent fit. The fact of the matter is that in practice, any non-D&D IP creature quickly descends into a legal discussion.

    Isn't every idea guessable? I mean, if someone just guessed it?
    Spoiler
    Show
    "Guess" has two meanings. One is "random chance", like throwing a dart at a board. The other is "deduce". Rich intended the second one, as he clarified when he says "I trust that someone will figure it out eventually". He is dropping clues, and excepts us to be able to eventually figure it out, presumably once we have all the clues.

    Since you haven't found the solution yet, is it possible you are doing something wrong?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Not necessarily. Ideas come to this thread slowly. For example, our current best fits were not suggested until late in the second thread and early third, and the explanations for the escape only included the stray dimensional lock as of start of the fifth thread. Besides, there is no way to know if we have found the solution. Balloons won't fall from the ceiling the moment someone says the correct species; for all we know, we have already found the creature Rich thought of.

    Haven't you checked all D&D creatures by now?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Not even close. There are literally thousand of official creatures, and beyond counting for third-party creatures published in all manner splatbooks. To illustrate just how deep the search space goes, consider that Crusher, in the space of an afternoon, checked one new source and found 5 new better-than-average candidates, and the repeated the feat a few pages later. There remains a lot of material to explore.
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-03-12 at 11:46 AM.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Complete list of MitD strips

    Key:
    Purple = strips prior to Rich knowing what the MitD is (end "around strip # 100")
    Italics = MitD mentioned but does not appear

    Start of Darkness

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Rainforest, 29 years ago

    Page 49|MitD captured
    Page 50|SBGH surprised MitD can talk, is in this part of the world[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Circus (3 years ago)

    Page 83|MitD likes stew, about to be revealed
    Page 84|CIRCUS SCENE, it's hard for MitD to be looked at by a lot of people at once
    Page 85|MitD knows Right-Eye's family, playing with toys
    Page 88|MitD meets Redcloak, Redcloak says he could escape if he wanted to
    Page 89|Redcloak is going to free MitD
    Page 90-95|Breaking MitD out of the circus
    Page 96|Xykon meets MitD, : "You sure are one ugly sumbitch", MitD can be mind-controlled[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Taking Dungeon of Dorukan (6 months ago)

    Page 100-101, 103, 105, 107, 109|MitD given control of zombies to attack tower, can't remember what to do, gets tacos instead
    Page 110|MitD being carried into dungeon[/table]


    Dungeon Crawlin' Fools

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Introductions

    23 Meanwhile...| MitD's first appearance, he wants out of the shadows
    37 Evil, But Cost-Effective| Watching Roy set off the trapped door
    47 But is it High Definition?| Team Evil scrying on Order of the Stick/Linear Guild, MitD wants to watch Belkar and Yikyik fighting
    82 Beats Pay-Per-View| Eating popcorn and watching Durkon and Hilgya have sex. MitD is (currently) in magical darkness[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    The Gates

    85b A High Turnover Career|Panel 8: Xykon says MitD whines a lot
    95 Dead Men Tell Tales| Panel 3: Redcloak says MitD is attracting more demon-roaches
    96 Gate? What Gate?|MitD can't see/doesn't recognize as gate/instantly forgets ginormous gate.
    97 Evil Plans|Joining in a hearty evil villain laugh.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Fighting the Order

    103 Practice Makes Perfect|MitD practicing for his big reveal
    105 Hordes of Xykon|MitD waiting behind the throne
    106 A Sure Bet|Waiting, : "Wait, what gate?"
    109 Tensions Rise|Still waiting
    110 Revenge is Best Served Really Cold|Ditto
    113 Memories, Like the Edges of My Sword|Ditto
    114 Exciting Climax|MitD about to jump out of the shadows
    117 Delayed Gratification|Wants to kill and eat the Order
    120 The End of the Beginning|Fleeing through tunnel with Redcloak[/table]


    No Cure for the Paladin Blues

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recap

    ??|MitD appears briefly in Elan's finger puppet recap of the events of the previous book
    ??|MitD is given a brief introduction on the Cast of Characters[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recruiting the hobgoblins

    147 The Light at the End of the Tunnel|MitD wants to hold Xykon's phylacetry but can't because he might break it. Excited to get out of the shadows. Introduction of pink umbrella.
    148 Hobgoblins and You|Grumbling about umbrella
    149 Cultural Differences|Watching Redcloak become hobgoblin supreme leader.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Retaking Xykon's tower

    190 A Lesson in Resource Management|MitD respects how Redcloak isn't going to send hobgoblins to their deaths, despite hating them
    191 Dungeon Real Estate|MitD scared to go into Xykon's old tower, "there's nothing in there any scarier than you - Correction: any scarier than you SHOULD be."
    192 Everything Sits Better on a Ritz|Outside Xykon's tower
    194 You Light Up My Life|MitD wants lantern archons to hit him with their light attacks
    194a Quit Dragon My Heart Around|Xykon and Redcloak can't see MitD - he's permanently shrouded in magical darkness according to Redcloak
    194b Post-Dragon|Reading a pamphlet from the forces of good
    195 Book Nook|Watching while Redcloak and Xykon search for Serini's diary
    196 The Diary|Plot exposition for Xykon's plan, "What "gate" do you guys keep talking about?"[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Preparing to march

    299 A Calling Missed|MitD wants to help, according to Redcloack the only way he can help zombify monsters is to volunteer as raw materials or gain five levels in cleric overnight[/table]


    War and XPs

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recap & Bonus

    ?? | MitD is mentioned on the Cast of Characters page
    ?? | MitD mentioned in passing in Vaarsuvius' plot recap
    Round 4 commentary bonus cartoon | MitD is too tall to be a kobold[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Marching

    331 For the Future|MitD marching with the hobgoblins[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    The Tower

    368 All Along the Watchtower | MitD says he eats to fill the loneliness
    369 Fight! | Cheering Redcloak against Miko
    371 The Road to Heck | Watching Redcloak, Xykon and Miko talk
    373 Caged | MitD is waiting for Miko after she escapes
    374 Black and Blue | TOWER SCENE, Miko's attacks just tickle MitD, who can hit the lightest competition
    375 Undeliverable | MitD eats the letter Miko was carrying, gets papercut on his tongue
    376 All Too Easy | Xykon left MitD to guard Miko so that she would be sure to escape[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Preparing the Attack

    414 Noble is Goodble|MitD is playing yahtzee with Xykon and Redcloak
    415 Idiot Box| Watching TeeVo with Xykon and Redcloak, : "Gate?"
    415a Hey, What's Wrong with Crayons?|MitD drew tactical plan, wants to smash through Azure City walls[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Battle of Azure City

    422 March to War|MitD shocked that Redcloak is bossing "Xykon" around
    426 Three of a Kind|Hanging out in the back with Redcloak and "Xykon", doesn't understand why there are three "Xykons"
    428 It Takes a Thief|Still hanging out in the back
    431 My Three Xykons|MitD still doesn't get the multiple Xykons, even after Redcloak explains it
    447 Guarding the Sapphire|In the back with Redcloak
    450 Wands Are for Suckers|MitD visible as tiny dot in back with Redcloak
    451 Change of Direction| Wants to devour someone and get a new pet to ride
    463 Shattered| Having a tea party when O-Chul drops in
    474 The Body Snatcher|MitD having a tea party with O-Chul and Roy's corpse; Belkar tracking MitD : tracks are weird, definitely not hobgoblin or undead Roy
    475 Crashing the Party|Belkar and Haley try to take O-Chul and Roy's corpse back from MitD; MitD yells loud enough to shake the ground and blow hair/cloaks back, is excited to eat moldy cheeseburgers, thinks he's seen Haley and Belkar somewhere before
    476 I Don't Suppose You Have Any Nutmeg? | MitD remembers he was supposed to devour Haley and Belkar
    477 Shock and Awwwwww|MitD can't decide if he should devour Haley and Belkar now, doesn't even notice a full attack from Belkar, gives a tiny stomp and creates a massive earthquake (: "Wow! I didn't know I could do that!!") after which he is suddenly tired
    484 At the End of the Day|MitD dragging O-Chul into Azure City[/table]


    Don't Split the Party
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Introduction

    ??|MitD appears on Cast of Characters page[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Team Evil and O'Chul

    541 He's a Gamblin' Thing | MitD betting on O'Chul escaping and living happily ever after with monopoly money
    543 Shhh! Principal's Coming!| MidD doesn't understand why hoping really hard didn't save O'Chul
    549 Grueling Ordeal| MitD shares stew with O'Chul, says he won't eat babies, wants to start a secret club that doesn't allow girls
    550 +1 BFF| MitD thinks Xykon and Redcloak are his friends, wants to play a game, and O'Chul says he's learning go very quickly[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    V's Attack

    651 Two Eyes in the Dark | MitD and O'Chul playing go, MitD remembers his dad, doesn't know what species he is
    654 Cages (Steel and Otherwise) | Calls O'Chul by his real name the first time
    658 A Bird in Hand | Rooting for O'Chul to escape
    661 The Path of Least Expectation | Escape
    662 The Price is Right | MitD sleeping[/table]


    Online strips
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Back in Azure CityGobbotopia

    699 Escape Clause | MitD trying and failing to repeat his "escape" trick on a hobgoblin.
    700 They Would Likely Both Disagree With That Sentiment | Identified Tsukiko's scroll as half a magic ritual.
    701 Curtains for You | MitD opens the curtains for Redcloak -- pushing is easier than pulling.
    702 One for the History Books | MitD standing in the background, holding the rope.
    703 Meet the New Boss | MitD is reading the Gobbotopia history book.
    704 Dead Men Give No Speeches | MitD hopes that "Prime Minister" = in charge of prime rib.
    709 No Scry Zone | Wants Tsukiko to scry for O'Chul, but she can't.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Phylactery found

    828 A Study in Viridian | Redcloak says MitD was looking for Teevo remote.
    831 Two of a Kind Beats King High | MitD warns Redcloak that Xykon is angry.
    832 Loose Ends | Shocked that Redcloak murdered Tsukiko.
    833 Villainy Afoot | MitD sad about Tsukiko's death. Knows Astral Plane is silvery and weightless, but can't remember going there.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Girard's Gate

    899 Prophecy Fulfilled| MitD arrives at the pyramid with Xykon and Redcloak.
    900 Hole on the Middle|MitD survived the gate explosion, doesn't know what a pelvis is.
    901 Friend of a Friend | MitD knows OotS are O-Chul's friends and doesn't want them killed, so he talks Xykon and Redcloak into not attacking the OotS and just going to Kraagor's gate.[/table]



    Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Bonus Strips

    Commentary page for Edition Wars | MitD wonders if 4e Xykon's necromantic aura affects him and if he's been updated [/table]
    Last edited by Savannah; 2013-07-17 at 12:11 PM.
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    Just moved, no internet in apartment until Sept. 4. I'll be back then.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah View Post
    Complete list of MitD strips (in progress)
    Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales[/center]
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Bonus Strips

    Commentary page for Edition Wars | MitD wonders if 4e Xykon's necromantic aura affects him and if he's been updated [/table]
    This one seems kind of curious to me. Does anyone have more information on this necromantic aura, and what it affecting the MitD might mean?

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    It's a single panel joke cartoon. I seriously doubt it means anything, but I included it for the sake of completeness.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Based off of context, it appears to be an ability of the 4e lich that damages creatures in the vicinity, but doesn't affect all creature types.

    It's all but certainly not a clue.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah View Post
    It's a single panel joke cartoon. I seriously doubt it means anything, but I included it for the sake of completeness.
    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Based off of context, it appears to be an ability of the 4e lich that damages creatures in the vicinity, but doesn't affect all creature types.

    It's all but certainly not a clue.
    All righty. It was worth a shot, I guess.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Section 4c: (Not) Seeing the Gates
    Spoiler
    Show
    MitD's inability to "see" the gates is felt by several participants to be a "clue" about MitD (rather than the alternative possibility, Rule of Funny). However, no explanation that ties MitD's species to the gates has been forthcoming, except when contemplating the idea of MitD being part of the Snarl.
    I just noticed from this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah View Post
    Complete list of MitD strips (in progress)
    Dungeon Crawlin' Fools

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    The Gates

    85b A High Turnover Career|Panel 8: Xykon says MitD whines a lot
    95 Dead Men Tell Tales| Panel 3: Redcloak says MitD is attracting more demon-roaches
    96 Gate? What Gate?|MitD can't see/doesn't recognize as gate/instantly forgets ginormous gate.
    97 Evil Plans|Joining in a hearty evil villain laugh.[/table]
    that the jokes about MitD not seeing the gates started before Rich knew what the MitD was. Doesn't that mean that it can't be a clue?

    I can't imagine this hasn't been noticed by someone before, but it wasn't in the first post and I can't remember that it has been discussed before, so I thought I'd bring it up anyway.
    Last edited by Peregrine Crow; 2012-08-25 at 06:26 AM.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Rich said:

    So, just so everyone is clear: I know exactly what the Monster in the Darkness is. I have (almost) always known. Its first two or three appearances were before I had worked out much of the plot's details, so at that point, I just figured it was a mystery I would never answer. Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was and have been dropping hints ever since. (Note that nothing from before strip #100 actually contradicts the truth of what it is, either.) [...]
    Strip 96 is around strip 100 so he might have determined it then and not seeing the gates was the first clue, though we don't know.
    Thank you to SubLimePie for my wonderful kobold cleric/wizard avatar!

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrine Crow View Post
    that the jokes about MitD not seeing the gates started before Rich knew what the MitD was. Doesn't that mean that it can't be a clue?
    As rweird said, Rich said "around strip 100". If the gates are involved, you can be pretty sure that the main plot already existed. We don't actually know this for sure, of course (and since Rich said 100, that's what we use), but there is a very good chance that MitD was decided upon at the same time the gate was shown for the first time.

    Grey Wolf
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    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant & Yendor View Post
    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Ok, I suppose that makes sense, thanks!
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Savannah View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Complete list of MitD strips (in progress)

    Key:
    Purple = strips prior to Rich knowing what the MitD is
    Italics = MitD mentioned but does not appear

    Start of Darkness

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Rainforest, 29 years ago

    Page 49|MitD captured
    Page 50|SBGH surprised MitD can talk, is in this part of the world[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Circus (3 years ago)

    Page 83|MitD likes stew, about to be revealed
    Page 84|CIRCUS SCENE, it's hard for MitD to be looked at by a lot of people at once
    Page 85|MitD knows Right-Eye's family, playing with toys
    Page 88|MitD meets Redcloak, Redcloak says he could escape if he wanted to
    Page 89|Redcloak is going to free MitD
    Page 90-95|Breaking MitD out of the circus
    Page 96|Xykon meets MitD, : "You sure are one ugly sumbitch", MitD can be mind-controlled[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Taking Dungeon of Dorukan (6 months ago)

    Page 100-101, 103, 105, 107, 109|MitD given control of zombies to attack tower, can't remember what to do, gets tacos instead
    Page 110|MitD being carried into dungeon[/table]


    Dungeon Crawlin' Fools

    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Introductions

    23 Meanwhile...| MitD's first appearance, he wants out of the shadows
    37 Evil, But Cost-Effective| Watching Roy set off the trapped door
    47 But is it High Definition?| Team Evil scrying on Order of the Stick/Linear Guild, MitD wants to watch Belkar and Yikyik fighting
    82 Beats Pay-Per-View| Eating popcorn and watching Durkon and Hilgya have sex. MitD is (currently) in magical darkness[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    The Gates

    85b A High Turnover Career|Panel 8: Xykon says MitD whines a lot
    95 Dead Men Tell Tales| Panel 3: Redcloak says MitD is attracting more demon-roaches
    96 Gate? What Gate?|MitD can't see/doesn't recognize as gate/instantly forgets ginormous gate.
    97 Evil Plans|Joining in a hearty evil villain laugh.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Fighting the Order

    103 Practice Makes Perfect|MitD practicing for his big reveal
    105 Hordes of Xykon|MitD waiting behind the throne
    106 A Sure Bet|Waiting, : "Wait, what gate?"
    109 Tensions Rise|Still waiting
    110 Revenge is Best Served Really Cold|Ditto
    113 Memories, Like the Edges of My Sword|Ditto
    114 Exciting Climax|MitD about to jump out of the shadows
    117 Delayed Gratification|Wants to kill and eat the Order
    120 The End of the Beginning|Fleeing through tunnel with Redcloak[/table]


    No Cure for the Paladin Blues

    Spoiler
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    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recap

    ??|MitD appears briefly in Elan's finger puppet recap of the events of the previous book
    ??|MitD is given a brief introduction on the Cast of Characters[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recruiting the hobgoblins

    147 The Light at the End of the Tunnel|MitD wants to hold Xykon's phylacetry but can't because he might break it. Excited to get out of the shadows. Introduction of pink umbrella.
    148 Hobgoblins and You|Grumbling about umbrella
    149 Cultural Differences|Watching Redcloak become hobgoblin supreme leader.[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Retaking Xykon's tower

    190 A Lesson in Resource Management|MitD respects how Redcloak isn't going to send hobgoblins to their deaths, despite hating them
    191 Dungeon Real Estate|MitD scared to go into Xykon's old tower, "there's nothing in there any scarier than you - Correction: any scarier than you SHOULD be."
    192 Everything Sits Better on a Ritz|Outside Xykon's tower
    194 You Light Up My Life|MitD wants lantern archons to hit him with their light attacks
    194a Quit Dragon My Heart Around|Xykon and Redcloak can't see MitD - he's permanently shrouded in magical darkness according to Redcloak
    194b Post-Dragon|Reading a pamphlet from the forces of good
    195 Book Nook|Watching while Redcloak and Xykon search for Serini's diary
    196 The Diary|Plot exposition for Xykon's plan, "What "gate" do you guys keep talking about?"[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Preparing to march

    299 A Calling Missed|MitD wants to help, according to Redcloack the only way he can help zombify monsters is to volunteer as raw materials or gain five levels in cleric overnight[/table]


    War and XPs

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    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Recap & Bonus

    ?? | MitD is mentioned on the Cast of Characters page
    ?? | MitD mentioned in passing in Vaarsuvius' plot recap
    Round 4 commentary bonus cartoon | MitD is too tall to be a kobold[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Marching

    331 For the Future|MitD marching with the hobgoblins[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    The Tower

    368 All Along the Watchtower | MitD says he eats to fill the loneliness
    369 Fight! | Cheering Redcloak against Miko
    371 The Road to Heck | Watching Redcloak, Xykon and Miko talk
    373 Caged | MitD is waiting for Miko after she escapes
    374 Black and Blue | TOWER SCENE, Miko's attacks just tickle MitD, who can hit the lightest competition
    375 Undeliverable | MitD eats the letter Miko was carrying, gets papercut on his tongue
    376 All Too Easy | Xykon left MitD to guard Miko so that she would be sure to escape[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Preparing the Attack

    414 Noble is Goodble|MitD is playing yahtzee with Xykon and Redcloak
    415 Idiot Box| Watching TeeVo with Xykon and Redcloak, : "Gate?"
    415a Hey, What's Wrong with Crayons?|MitD drew tactical plan, wants to smash through Azure City walls[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Battle of Azure City

    422 March to War|MitD shocked that Redcloak is bossing "Xykon" around
    426 Three of a Kind|Hanging out in the back with Redcloak and "Xykon", doesn't understand why there are three "Xykons"
    428 It Takes a Thief|Still hanging out in the back
    431 My Three Xykons|MitD still doesn't get the multiple Xykons, even after Redcloak explains it
    447 Guarding the Sapphire|In the back with Redcloak
    450 Wands Are for Suckers|MitD visible as tiny dot in back with Redcloak
    451 Change of Direction| Wants to devour someone and get a new pet to ride
    463 Shattered| Having a tea party when O-Chul drops in
    474 The Body Snatcher|MitD having a tea party with O-Chul and Roy's corpse; Belkar tracking MitD : tracks are weird, definitely not hobgoblin or undead Roy
    Crashing the Party|Belkar and Haley try to take O-Chul and Roy's corpse back from MitD; MitD yells loud enough to shake the ground and blow hair/cloaks back, is excited to eat moldy cheeseburgers, thinks he's seen Haley and Belkar somewhere before
    476 I Don't Suppose You Have Any Nutmeg? | MitD remembers he was supposed to devour Haley and Belkar
    477 Shock and Awwwwww|MitD can't decide if he should devour Haley and Belkar now, doesn't even notice a full attack from Belkar, gives a tiny stomp and creates a massive earthquake (: "Wow! I didn't know I could do that!!") after which he is suddenly tired
    484 At the End of the Day|MitD dragging O-Chul into Azure City[/table]


    Don't Split the Party
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Introduction

    ??|MitD appears on Cast of Characters page[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Team Evil and O'Chul

    541 He's a Gamblin' Thing | MitD betting on O'Chul escaping and living happily ever after with monopoly money
    543 Shhh! Principal's Coming!| MidD doesn't understand why hoping really hard didn't save O'Chul
    549 Grueling Ordeal| MitD shares stew with O'Chul, says he won't eat babies, wants to start a secret club that doesn't allow girls
    550 +1 BFF| MitD thinks Xykon and Redcloak are his friends, wants to play a game, and O'Chul says he's learning go very quickly[/table]

    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    V's Attack

    651 Two Eyes in the Dark | MitD and O'Chul playing go, MitD remembers his dad, doesn't know what species he is
    654 Cages (Steel and Otherwise) | Calls O'Chul by his real name the first time
    658 A Bird in Hand | Rooting for O'Chul to escape
    661 The Path of Least Expectation | Escape
    662 The Price is Right | MitD sleeping[/table]


    Online strips (coming soon)

    Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales
    Spoiler
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    {table=head]{colsp=2}
    Bonus Strips

    Commentary page for Edition Wars | MitD wonders if 4e Xykon's necromantic aura affects him and if he's been updated [/table]
    Glad to see the list making the transition to the new thread. It's an incredibly useful reference tool.
    Awesome avatar courtesy Cealocanth.

    Spoiler
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    69
    it's a crab and a cancer... just ask the zodiac...

    Spoiler
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    Signature Update: at the end of the KICKSTARTER pledge drive the number of unclaimed signed packages was 69 ! It's like my signature knew all along...

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Strips #95-120 should be given a special colour indicating "Rich decided on the MitD's identity some point here; exact strip unknown."
    THE SCRYING SENSOR AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

    Also ponies.
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    elan: dad plz dont kill roy
    tarquin: ok
    Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for #917.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by rweird View Post
    Strip 96 is around strip 100 so he might have determined it then and not seeing the gates was the first clue, though we don't know.
    My personal opinion is that it isn't a clue, just rule of funny. He had started a running joke and intended to keep it running. A good, rules-based explanation for why MitD can't see the gates would be confusing and lose the humor, so I doubt it is significant.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aran nu tasar View Post
    My personal opinion is that it isn't a clue, just rule of funny. He had started a running joke and intended to keep it running. A good, rules-based explanation for why MitD can't see the gates would be confusing and lose the humor, so I doubt it is significant.
    I would be inclined to agree, I just was pointing out that it could be a clue (not that I know of anything that can't see portals/forgets about them after they no longer are looking at them).
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Based off of context, it appears to be an ability of the 4e lich that damages creatures in the vicinity, but doesn't affect all creature types.

    It's all but certainly not a clue.
    Well, I know it's not a clue, but I still feel like over-analyzing it just a teensy bit, even without any reference material...

    - 4e does occasionally refer to specific types of creatures for specific abilities, but a necro-aura wouldn't likely single out anything but undead.

    - On the other hand, damage types are a huge deal in 4e, so not being affected by the aura at all would most likely be because of immunity to, "necrotic damage," which is basically negative energy damage. If MitD has some other excuse to be immune to negative energy, it would be a valid reason to wonder whether it carried over.

    - Then again, he would probably not feel it in any case because he just has so many hit points, and would likely wonder whether it's affecting him on that basis. Unrelated resistances that may translate oddly would also be a possible culprit.

    - If the aura does something besides damage, it gets more interesting. RC looks like he might be getting stunned or something, suggesting that maybe the aura is doing what the paralyzing touch did in 3.5. Lots of creatures are immune to stunning and paralysis in both versions, for various reasons.

    Alas, still nothing conclusive, but still fun.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Strips #95-120 should be given a special colour indicating "Rich decided on the MitD's identity some point here; exact strip unknown."
    I'd support this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    You forgot that the half-orc cleric who researched it is Redcloak's niece.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Strips #95-120 should be given a special colour indicating "Rich decided on the MitD's identity some point here; exact strip unknown."
    I have no opinion on this matter, but now that there are two votes for this change, I have added Savannah to Section 5, naming her the curator for the list of strips. Ideally she will want to to use the same thread rules I am using, but if she prefers any other method for determining the consensus of the thread participants, I'll happily add her version of it to section 5 (or she could add her own bit to her section, I suppose).

    Hopefully no-one has issues with me unilaterally choosing Savannah for co-curator, but as per the rules, feel free to contact me and a mod if you'd rather I set up elections for her position.

    And since I've gone fully meta in this post, I might as well add: I'm considering, once Savannah is finished, using her post to create a single table of all MitD strips to complement her divided-by-book approach, in which I add a column for each character that ever shares page with MitD, so that we can quickly determine how was present. Savannah initially considered this, but by putting a single column for all of them, it made ordering impossible. I think putting a column per character (probably with their picture rather than name, and "Y" and "N" for values) could work nicely.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-08-26 at 08:44 AM.
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    GIANT IN THE PLAYGROUND: On a saner forum,
    there wouldn't have been such speculation.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    No problem here with Savannah.....I mean, she made me this nifty Avatar.....how could I say no?

    On an unrelated note, where did the giant quote come from GW? That is somewhat new, if I recall correctly.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Click the green arrow next to the name, and you'll see.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    I'll also support savannah, if I understand the rules correctly, that makes two positive votes for the change, making it officially valid

    Edit: Nevermind, we obviously already had two positive votes, if grey_wolf hadn't agreed to the change then he wouldn't have changed it in the first place.
    Last edited by Peregrine Crow; 2012-08-26 at 02:40 PM.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrine Crow View Post
    I'll also support savannah, if I understand the rules correctly, that makes two positive votes for the change, making it officially valid
    Unfortunately, we have hit a bit of a snag, since I received a PM with a negative vote. In any case, please PM votes rather than post, I don't want us to get into trouble over too many side posts.

    Celtic: as Kish said, nicest thing about quotes in this forum is that they give context. I should probably add a h/t to Yendor, who came up with half the quote, though.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Thanks to you both for the heads up! Awesome!
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    I had a thought about the MitD not being able to see the gate/rift that i wanted to share with this thread. it has been established that the snarl's prison doesn't work well with divine energy; that the stuff has been nullified there. We also know that the rifts are resistant to divine investigation. Even when the dark one looked at a rift directly all he learned was: its a rift, and there is something very powerful and hostile on the other side.

    My idea was that something about the "anti-divide energy" aspect of the prison makes it so beings that use the same energy have trouble noticing/ perceiving it. If a god only notices it when his attention is directly drawn there, maybe something of a similar type but with less power can't see the rifts at all. Perhaps the MitD is something that uses divine energy, like outsider from alignment based plane, or something that is thought to have partially divine heritage. Another option is a creature who's natural abilities mimic divine magic, if it wields the same type of divine power maybe such a creature would be similarly blocked from seeing the rifts/gates.

    So, what do you guys think?
    Last edited by Felixc-91; 2012-08-26 at 04:58 PM.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Divine....yet not a god........intriguing. Any monster examples by chance? If not, no worries. I'm sure someone won't mind investigating.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Felixc-91 View Post
    I had a thought about the MitD not being able to see the gate/rift that i wanted to share with this thread. it has been established that the snarl's prison doesn't work well with divine energy; that the stuff has been nullified there. We also know that the rifts are resistant to divine investigation. Even when the dark one looked at a rift directly all he learned was: its a rift, and there is something very powerful and hostile on the other side.
    [citation please]

    I think those two affirmations ("snarl's prison doesn't work well with divine energy" and "rifts are resistant to divine investigation") are firsts for this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felixc-91 View Post
    My idea was that something about the "anti-divide energy" aspect of the prison makes it so beings that use the same energy have trouble noticing/ perceiving it. If a god only notices it when his attention is directly drawn there, maybe something of a similar type but with less power can't see the rifts at all. Perhaps the MitD is something that uses divine energy, like outsider from alignment based plane, or something that is thought to have partially divine heritage. Another option is a creature who's natural abilities mimic divine magic, if it wields the same type of divine power maybe such a creature would be similarly blocked from seeing the rifts/gates.

    So, what do you guys think?
    I think that the evidence I am aware of is that:
    1) MitD cannot create undead, suggesting he doesn't have access to divine energy (see section 2b: raising undead)
    2) MitD's alignment can change, so he is unlikely to be from the Good/Evil morality planes (although I am open to him being from a Law/Chaos Neutral plane) (see section 4a)
    3) MitD can be mind controlled, so he is unlikely to be a Divine being (see section 2c: Mental Resistance)

    Now, not having heard the evidence for your claims in the first paragraph, I remain open to the possibility we need to revisit those three assertions. But I will need to check the canon first.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-08-26 at 05:07 PM.
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    [citation please]

    I think those two affirmations ("snarl's prison doesn't work well with divine energy" and "rifts are resistant to divine investigation") are firsts for this thread.

    Grey Wolf
    I thought that was already established, guess I was wrong.
    Here it is stated that in the Snarl's demiplane/prison divine energy was nulled
    (panel 2, last box of Shojo's words)

    In Start of Darkness, during the crayons section where the Dark One first learns of the rifts it is stated that the cleric who first found the first attempted multiple divinations and learned nothing, that the Dark One’s “godly perceptions" had not seen it till then, and that when the Dark One took a look himself that what he learned was: it’s a rift and there was a being of "unparalled power and hostility". (pages 41-42 in SoD).

    I'll admit that the data from start of darkness is not rock solid, but we have seen extremely powerful beings looking at things before and they seem to have quite a view (being able to see through epic divination blocks and invisibility at will, during V's battle with X and Eugene scrying on Azure city for Roy). That makes me think the information obtained by the Dark One directly from the rift was more limited than it could have been.

    Edit: In responce to the other half of your post; ok, so MitD is not a celestial, but there are plenty of creatures with spell like abilities that mimic cleric spells, I just have time to hunt them all down right now. They might fit the blocking divine perception theory, particularly thoes who's fluff implies any kind of connection to angels or devils (and all the other divine good/evil outsiders)
    Last edited by Felixc-91; 2012-08-26 at 05:36 PM.
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