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2013-02-10, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I'm not sure. It looks more like Belkar is stabbing the hellhound in order to make it rear up in pain, and thus get hit by the bolts from the trap. Probably more an attack roll than a Ride check. I have no idea whether there is any type of combat manoeuvre or Feat that might cover something like that. I suspect not.
The prison was full of British officers who had sworn to die, rather than be captured.
Avatar by Rich Burlew: The Giant Stuck It To Me!
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2013-02-12, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I think strip #866 might be a better link to show V's Knowledge (religion). Blackwing correctly identifies the Draketooth mummy as such. A familiar uses "either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever are better" to determine which checks it can make and how well it can make them. Ravens don't normally have ranks in Knowledge (religion), and Knowledge (religion) is trained-only, so Blackwing must have used V's ranks to make that check. QED, V has ranks in Knowledge (religion).
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-02-12 at 09:22 PM.
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2013-02-13, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
What about equipment that the character doesn't have?
I.e. 869 proves that Belkar has no Ring of Freedom of Movement, a standard piece of equipment for any melee character >= lvl 11.Last edited by SinsI; 2013-02-13 at 07:12 PM.
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2013-02-14, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- USA
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2013-02-14, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Listing ways the characters differ from Internet-approved optimization templates is something that, in Belkar's phrasing, I oppose so hard.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-14, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
In addition to EmperorSarda's remark, a standard TO-recommended item for your typical 'I can buy any item I want' adventuring party is not the same thing as a standard item for a high-level character in OotS. They don't have a 10' pole either, but I don't see that absence going on the list anytime soon.
EDIT: Dat ninja.Last edited by Math_Mage; 2013-02-14 at 06:47 PM.
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2013-02-14, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Beyond that if we start listing things that a character doesn't have, there'll be some long lists. Reminds me of an old commercial for a candy bar (I think it was Snickers) that had a fast talking listing things that it didn't have in it, including The Great Wall of China.
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2013-02-15, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
In 861, they run into at least 5 Mummies, and not one of them is paralyzed with fear.
Is that an indication that Durkon had numerous Freedom of Movement buffs cast on the party?
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2013-02-15, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
None of them appear particularly afraid. Maybe V handed Durkon some of her 27 potions of heroism. And Belkar was caught out by Hold Person, so...no.
Considering that your argument in the comic thread depends on Durkon being an idiot for not casting Freedom of Movement, I'm baffled as to how you can argue here that he DID cast it.
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2013-02-17, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Yes, and let's also include a list of all feats that the character doesn't have, and the races and classes that they aren't
Let's start with Roy. Let's see, he is not an elf, nor an aasimar, nor a dwarf, and I'm pretty sure he's not an aarakocra either, or however you spell that. He is not a cleric, nor a bard, nor a truenamer, and he doesn't own a mecha, nor does he possess a live tyrannosaurus, nor does he wear the Crimson Mantle. Hm, this is going to be a long list...
Jokes aside, I think we can agree that this is widely impractical.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2013-02-17, 08:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
For races, a character can only be one of them, so your argument is absurd.
Similarly with classes - the amount of free levels for those is far too small to suggest they have anything but the established classes.
But for feats - why not, as long as we have a direct in-comic confirmation that he really doesn't have such a feat? I.e. if a character provoked an attack of opportunity that would've been prevented by a certain feat?
That is, if there is a particular strip that dictates a certain missing item or feat - it might be useful to mention it, too.
For example, since no one in the party was paralyzed during an encounter with 5+ mummies (that's 25 DC 16 rolls for all the five characters, at least one guaranteed failed roll even if they all have ridiculously high will saves, which they don't), it indicates that they have some kind of protection from such paralyzis - and that rises a question of why was Belkar affected by a Hold Person.Last edited by SinsI; 2013-02-17 at 08:24 AM.
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2013-02-17, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
In order to prevent massive spillover into inclusion of completely useless information (as opposed to only mostly useless), you'd have to be very very particular about exactly what deserves to get on the list. Can you imagine the debates? It's bad enough just recording characteristics they actually have.
Plus, some negatives are subsumed under positives, e.g. V can't cast Teleport because Conjuration and Necromancy are her barred schools for her Evocation specialty.
I think it would be instructive for you to provide a few examples of negative information that could in any way prove to be useful.
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2013-02-17, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
To what extent it actually makes sense, we already have that sort of thing in the descriptions:
Vaarsuvius
[...]
Skills (108+)[...], Ride 0, Spot 0, Search 0, Speak Language: [...] not draconic (SSDT),Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-17, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Only two characters saw the mummies: Roy and Haley. Belkar didn't drop until after the smoke bomb. Similar with Durkon. And since Elan did nothing, we can say he did miss his rolls.
Besides, with the mummies going ahead while the LG stopped to talk, it is perfectly possible that Roy and Haley did miss all their rolls, were paralysed for 24 seconds, and then, once the shock passed, went ahead with the attack. It takes a long time to walk down a trapped corridor, so Roy spending 4 rounds paralysed with fear would not mean loosing the chance to spring the ambush. Furthermore, a long enough corridor (and everything shows the corridor being long and straight) would similarly give plenty of time for the OotS to see the mummies, be paralysed, and get over it before they came anywhere close.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-02-17 at 10:13 AM.
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2013-02-17, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Belkar's dex is completely immaterial, unless he spent character feats on Greater Two Weapon Fighting. If we accept that he uses the two weapon fighting style, we can prove that he didn't change out of armor when he full-attacks here getting six attacks after using Two Weapon Pounce here.
Now, if he doesn't have the TWF combat style (I will be confused) at some point he should have done something other than TWF, and he has to have a Dex of 19. However, that's unlikely enough that we should dismiss it. We do have his Two Weapon Fighting feats listed as bonuses, indicating they're from his combat style. Therefore, he doesn't have to use any dex at all.
Also, I'm pretty sure that proves he normally wears light or no armor.Avatar courtesy of Ceika.
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2013-02-18, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Malack is a vampire.
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2013-02-18, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Yep.
Belkar is not yet a vampire, but in great and imminent danger of becoming one.
Notes on Vampires for those who want to discuss the implications."They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2013-02-18, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Czech Republic
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
And Malack is also Evil, vampires always are.
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
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2013-02-18, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Remember the D&D definition of "always" when it comes to alignment is a bit looser.
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2013-02-18, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Always= There are rare exceptions.
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2013-02-18, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Northern Ireland
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2013-02-18, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
It's mostly that there's nonevil vampires in D&D novels- Jander Sunstar, the elf vampire in the Ravenloft novel Vampire of the Mists, comes across as nonevil at the start of the novel (and in the two short stories set prior to it).
May be a case of automatic change of alignment to evil- but retaining of some conscience, and after some hard work, a change of alignment to Neutral, in his case.
I do think that at the moment the presumption shifts to "evil unless later evidence shows otherwise" though.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2013-02-18, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Van Richten's Guide to Vampires provided a method by which a vampire can retain "surviving goodness" very-temporarily. I think it involved rolling under your Wisdom on 8d6. (I'd say "so good luck, Belkar," if he had any goodness to survive anyway.) The writeups of Jander in 2ed indicated he was Chaotic Neutral.
In 3ed, the writeup of Jander went into some length about his nobility and restraint in the text...and then the stat block declared he was Chaotic Evil anyway.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-02-18, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- New York
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
So Malack is ECL 19+? I imagine Tarquin is ECL 19+ as well.
Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS
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2013-02-18, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Why 19+? Last I heard his confirmed minimum level is 11 and we're not sure what kind of vampire he is, making him ECL 13+ at minimum or 16+ if he's a Vampire Lord.
EDIT: Never mind, was thinking CR not LA. With LA, yeah, min ECL 19+.Last edited by Da'Shain; 2013-02-18 at 05:32 PM.
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2013-02-18, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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2013-02-18, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Prince Fraternal of Pudding, Snuzzlepal, Feezy Squeez Lover, MP, Member of The Most Noble And Ancient Order Of St. George, King of Gae Parabolae.
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2013-02-18, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- The sticks
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Well, probably, and we've certainly been suspicious of this all along, but lets not immediately jump to conclusions.
Is there anything else he could be? What else could he be that would allow this?
Edit - I will also note that I'm quite pleased at this turn of events, as it helps enormously in explaining how Malack could be merely 11+ while Tarquin could be 17+ in terms of class abilities.Last edited by Crusher; 2013-02-18 at 07:32 PM.
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2013-02-18, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
The Giant referred to him as a vampire http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=190
Last edited by mawexzon; 2013-02-18 at 07:47 PM.
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2013-02-18, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Malack is ECL 22+ when you add on his 1 lizardfolk level and 2 racial HD.
Tarquin's team may even be a match for Team Evil.Last edited by DaveMcW; 2013-02-18 at 11:07 PM.