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  1. - Top - End - #301

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    So Belkar is basically ECL 24 at this point?

    And he might have a higher Str score than Roy?

    Wow.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcW View Post
    Malack is ECL 22+ when you add on his 1 lizardfolk level and 2 racial HD.

    Tarquin's team may even be a match for Team Evil.
    Well... sort of. I mean, sure, this means he's up in epic territory (suggesting that Tarquin is as well. Which, now that we're actually *saying* it doesn't seem like a surprise given how impressive he's been along with the de facto ruler of an empire. But then I'm in the "Tarquin is awesome" camp), but he's nowhere near a match for Xykon. Yeah, he's tricky to kill and has some fun side abilities, but in terms of sheer power he's a lot weaker than a straight-up level 22 caster of any sort. Xykon, and probably Redcloak, would mop the floor with him.

    On the one hand, sure, if this means Tarquin's party is all low 20s, that makes them a pretty powerful bunch and probably a match for Team Evil (just like the Scribblers were). On the other hand, I'm a little shocked that Team Tarquin would carry around a cleric so horribly underpowered for his ECL.
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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Well... sort of. I mean, sure, this means he's up in epic territory (suggesting that Tarquin is as well. Which, now that we're actually *saying* it doesn't seem like a surprise given how impressive he's been along with the de facto ruler of an empire. But then I'm in the "Tarquin is awesome" camp), but he's nowhere near a match for Xykon. Yeah, he's tricky to kill and has some fun side abilities, but in terms of sheer power he's a lot weaker than a straight-up level 22 caster of any sort. Xykon, and probably Redcloak, would mop the floor with him.

    On the one hand, sure, if this means Tarquin's party is all low 20s, that makes them a pretty powerful bunch and probably a match for Team Evil (just like the Scribblers were). On the other hand, I'm a little shocked that Team Tarquin would carry around a cleric so horribly underpowered for his ECL.
    Keep in mind this isn't a tabletop game where you can leave a party member behind and someone of his same level will conveniently fill the void. And Malak probably didn't choose to be a Vampire. It is still smart to travel with him. He is still likely one of the most powerful persons in the world.
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  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    On the one hand, sure, if this means Tarquin's party is all low 20s, that makes them a pretty powerful bunch and probably a match for Team Evil (just like the Scribblers were). On the other hand, I'm a little shocked that Team Tarquin would carry around a cleric so horribly underpowered for his ECL.
    Depends on the timing of his Vampire transformation - just like the rest of the Order of the Stick didn't magically get epic after Belkar's conversion, Tarquin can be a lot lower ECL than his ally.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    Keep in mind this isn't a tabletop game where you can leave a party member behind and someone of his same level will conveniently fill the void. And Malak probably didn't choose to be a Vampire. It is still smart to travel with him. He is still likely one of the most powerful persons in the world.
    Oh, sure. Its just that Team Tarquin has generally come across as a group that, unlike the Stickies, tried to actually be smart about their builds. Perhaps its just Tarquin's aura.

    Anyway, starting to veer a bit astray here so I'll stop.
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcW View Post
    Malack is ECL 22+ when you add on his 1 lizardfolk level and 2 racial HD.
    Lizardfolk have a level adjustment of one, Malack has +11 Levels of Cleric, +8 for Vampire. Am I missing something or is that 20?

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lizardfolk.htm
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Yes, you're missing the lizardfolk racial hit dice.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaderAt2046 View Post
    I'm pretty sure Rich doesn't follow that rule. The whole point of Redcloak's plots is that that doesn't apply to goblins and other living mosnters, so it might also not apply to vampires.
    Goblins are Usually Neutral Evil, which is not the same as being "always" of the Evil alignment.
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  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Yes, you're missing the lizardfolk racial hit dice.
    Lizardfolk have a challenge rating of one, and a level adjustment of one... and also have two levels of humanoid. My bad.

    ...wow those guys are poorly balanced. Two levels of humanoid (giving them basically nothing) AND a +1 Level Adjustment?

    Isn't that basically a +3 Level Adjustment in exchange for a +5 Natural Armor bonus?

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    In the immortal words of the Dark One, THOSE RULES ARE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT!

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    In the immortal words of the Dark One, THOSE RULES ARE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT!
    Humanoid: Second worse class ever. After commoner. But important for adventurers who want to kill things and take their stuff in a low risk environment.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Doesn't this reveal bring us closer to knowing Malack's domains? The SRD states that a vampire cleric has access to two out of Chaos, Destruction, Evil or Trickery.

    Assuming the priest of a god of Death and Destruction has destruction as a school, and assuming chaos is not the other due to the fact he appears to be lawful, that leaves Evil or Trickery.

    Obviously, those guesses are based purely on character stuff, and I'm nowhere near familiar enough with clerics to be able to make a final judgement, but I thought it was worth mentioning as I hadn't seen anyone else bring it up, and I'm sure people who know the rules better can narrow it down further.

  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    In the latest Giant comment, he reveals that Malack floats. AFAIK, this is not related to being a vampire...
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  14. - Top - End - #314

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwain View Post
    In the latest Giant comment, he reveals that Malack floats. AFAIK, this is not related to being a vampire...
    Well, yes... if you look at thee panel he's referring to, they were all floating/flying in some manner.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    On the other hand, I'm a little shocked that Team Tarquin would carry around a cleric so horribly underpowered for his ECL.
    Well, he's ECL 22 or more. There's no confirmed upper limit for his cleric leves yet. I would bet he is even higher than that.

    Oh, and that's also a good point:
    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Depends on the timing of his Vampire transformation - just like the rest of the Order of the Stick didn't magically get epic after Belkar's conversion, Tarquin can be a lot lower ECL than his ally.

  16. - Top - End - #316
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Tarquin can definitely be a lower level than his ally. We have seen Tarquin team up with Nale (who is clearly lower level) and Kilkil (who is much lower still). We have also seen Nale team up with Leeky (who, regardless of level, was clearly more of a threat than Nale was) and Pompey (who was, what, level 5 at the time?). We even know that Roy has a lower level than Belkar does.

    So yeah, in the comic we can see that being in the same team doesn't say anything about what levels characters are.
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  17. - Top - End - #317
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Are there any cleric of death prestige classes that grant vampirism as level cap bonus? Considering Mallack's choice of god, and him calling Nergal his master, that would be really fitting.
    Last edited by SinsI; 2013-02-20 at 12:16 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Are there any cleric of death prestige classes that grant vampirism as level cap bonus? Considering Mallack's choice of god, and him calling Nergal his master, that would be really fitting.
    Not that I can find.

    Reading the mood of the thread I do think I was hasty slapping evil on Malack, so I've taken it off.

    As for surviving in sunlight, I'll wait and see if it's discussed in the comic at all before having a stab at explaining it in Malack's entry. Malack may have a magic item that Belkar may end up inheriting, or maybe Rich is houseruling that it's no big deal.
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  19. - Top - End - #319

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    {{scrubbed}}
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2013-02-24 at 02:14 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #320
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by EatAtEmrakuls View Post
    {{scrubbed}}
    And your evidence supporting either of your hypotheses is?
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2013-02-24 at 02:14 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Not that I can find.

    Reading the mood of the thread I do think I was hasty slapping evil on Malack, so I've taken it off.
    Well, at this point he's either evil or has illusion spells, and we haven't seen any predication towards illusion from Malack. Not that that's conclusive, just something to bear in mind.

  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    A good problem i see here is that Detect Evil read undead as Evil whatever they are evil or not.

  23. - Top - End - #323
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Nale's longsword should be removed from his inventory, since Belkar prevented him from retrieving it.
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  24. - Top - End - #324
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Yes, but by Malack's ECL, he could easily have his alignment hidden from detection. Hell, my Good PCs hide their alignment because of our tendency to use Detect Alignment to find people.

    Undead can ping up to three alignment spells (Good, Evil, and either Chaos or Law), Outsiders can ping all four in the right circumstances. You'd have to have two subtypes, and then convert to the opposite alignment (such as a former Taa'nari becoming a Paladin) but it's possible.
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  25. - Top - End - #325
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bling Cat View Post
    Well, at this point he's either evil or has illusion spells, and we haven't seen any predication towards illusion from Malack.
    Not sure why by RAW it must be one of the two, would you mind explaining? Can you hide alignment with illusions?

    Also, there is a third option: that Rich, as the author, dislikes blanket alignment assignments (which we know to be true) and by having already established Malack to be a half-way decent dude, has indicated that the rule for "all vampires are evil" does not apply in OotS (which is open to discussion, but I believe to be at least a valid possibility).

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  26. - Top - End - #326
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Don't forget that the whole point about the IFCC is that even Outsiders have necessarily a set Alignment, since it's based on allowing more Chaotic Devils, more Lawful Demons and less Neutral Daemons, as Rich has said.

  27. - Top - End - #327
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Not sure why by RAW it must be one of the two, would you mind explaining? Can you hide alignment with illusions?

    Grey Wolf
    According to the SRD, vampire clerics can only choose from a pool of four domains, Destruction, Chaos, Evil or Trickery. I may be reading it wrong, but since we know he's almost certainly not chaotic and he's cast spells from the destruction domain, that would imply his other domain is either Evil or Trickery, which is primarily illusion spells.

    Like I said, I might be reading it wrong, it might be that he gets those as bonus domain choices, but the wording doesn't indicate that to me. Article is here, the relevant bit is under Vampire Characters in the Clerics section.

  28. - Top - End - #328
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Malack's vampirism actually grants Tarquin and co a lot of advantages in the empire building business.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    If he's not evil then he can't have the evil domain.

    "A cleric who chooses the Trickery domain adds Bluff (Cha), Disguise (Cha), and Hide (Dex) to the list."

    Granted nothing stops him from having Disguise cross-class, but I think a decent Disguise rank would deal with this whole "doesn't look or sound like a Vampire" thing pretty nicely.

    It's thin, but he's likely Destruction + Trickery.
    Last edited by Dark Matter; 2013-02-20 at 07:31 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #330
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    I'm not sure about this, but if he was a cleric before he became a vampire and had like, Law and Destruction as his domains, does that mean his domains vanished and he needs to pick two out of the four mentioned here, or just that he lost his Law domain and now he has just one?
    Last edited by Mike Havran; 2013-02-20 at 07:37 PM.
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