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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Furthermore, since the "penalty" comic was after the "scroll use" comic, we can't even argue that he invested some points into it...
    Rich bends the rules when it makes it funny. Accept.

  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Still requires a minimum of 13 Wisdom to cast it. This pins Belkar's possible Wisdom score to be 9 to 12 without the buff - and none of those give a penalty.
    9 gives a -1 penalty.
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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    9 gives a -1 penalty.
    Ah, yeah. So it must be precisely 9, instead of <=9...

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Ah, yeah. So it must be precisely 9, instead of <=9...
    Or, you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Rich bends the rules when it makes it funny. Accept.
    ...that. Accepting that sometimes rules are bent or broken is an inherent part of this thread.
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Malak knows Protection from Daylight.
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  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Since Hold Person is 1 round/level, should Durkon not break it, could we get Malack's Level?

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by mawexzon View Post
    Since Hold Person is 1 round/level, should Durkon not break it, could we get Malack's Level?
    No, as we cannot tell exactly how long a round is during this conversation. We also no not know how many rounds Malack already spent draining Belkar off-panel.

    I guess that we could come close to "10 to 20 rounds" if we count words, but even that might not be possible. And we already know that Malack is probably in the level range of "11 to 20ish".
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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by mawexzon View Post
    Since Hold Person is 1 round/level, should Durkon not break it, could we get Malack's Level?
    No. Even if he needs a Natural 20 to do so, Belkar could pass a Will save and break out of the spell at any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mawexzon View Post
    Well, if someone says "Blade Barrier" and a blade of barrier appears, i think the effect would be pretty obvious.
    Well, the accuracy and consistency of verbal components in naming their spells is somewhat suspect. In a few instances, casters cast without saying the spell name at all. Power Word: Stun is just "Stun." Holy Word is just "Holy" (when not interrupted). And Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage (admittedly a joke spell) is just "Forcecage."
    Last edited by Draz74; 2013-02-25 at 01:03 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Math_Mage View Post
    "Circumstance Modifier

    A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source."

    IMHO it's within a reasonable doubt that Rich could have given Tarquin a circumstance bonus to recognize a spell cast by his old friend and companion who has probably cast it in front of Tarquin before. In fact, in that case it would be more a case of remembering what it looks like than identifying a novel spell; I don't know that I'd make him roll Spellcraft at all in this situation.

    And hey, it's also a DC 21 check to recognize a spell being cast from its verbal and somatic components, but nobody's saying it's likely Gannji has ranks in Spellcraft.
    That's just saying "It's okay for a DM to modify this rule". As it stands, there's no evidence that it happened.
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  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Math_Mage View Post
    "Circumstance Modifier

    A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source."

    IMHO it's within a reasonable doubt that Rich could have given Tarquin a circumstance bonus to recognize a spell cast by his old friend and companion who has probably cast it in front of Tarquin before. In fact, in that case it would be more a case of remembering what it looks like than identifying a novel spell; I don't know that I'd make him roll Spellcraft at all in this situation.

    And hey, it's also a DC 21 check to recognize a spell being cast from its verbal and somatic components, but nobody's saying it's likely Gannji has ranks in Spellcraft.
    That is entirely reasonable. Regardless, the circumstance modifier would be useless if he didn't have at least one rank. It isn't an untrained skill. And Ganji? A rogue probably around 12th level? His skill point total would make a cross class rank, (putting one cross class rank in a skill only useable trained is a reasonable investment when you have the SP to burn,) in spellcraft easy peasy.
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  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    That's just saying "It's okay for a DM to modify this rule". As it stands, there's no evidence that it happened.
    If, hypothetically, you rolled up a high-Int Fighter in a party with a Wizard, and that Wizard cast Blade Barrier in a fight (using the OotS method of shouting "Blade Barrier" to make it obvious to all and sundry), and a few days later the Fighter saw the same spell in effect, having already been cast by the same Wizard, would you make him roll Spellcraft to identify it?

    The rules are contingent on how a reasonable DM would use them. It is entirely reasonable for a DM to rule that Tarquin recognizes Blade Barrier without a check in this case. And since the burden of proof rests firmly on those seeking to add information to the OP, I don't have to provide my own evidence; I only have to subject yours to a reasonable doubt. Which is a reasonable rule, as 'Tarquin doesn't necessarily have ranks in Spellcraft' is not a claim that can be proved with evidence, yet it is the counterclaim to yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ View Post
    That is entirely reasonable. Regardless, the circumstance modifier would be useless if he didn't have at least one rank. It isn't an untrained skill. And Ganji? A rogue probably around 12th level? His skill point total would make a cross class rank, (putting one cross class rank in a skill only useable trained is a reasonable investment when you have the SP to burn,) in spellcraft easy peasy.
    Fair enough; that was not a strong argument on my part.
    Last edited by Math_Mage; 2013-02-25 at 02:31 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    What level do you think protection from daylight is? Protection from energy is a 3rd level spell, but that has a damage cap.

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Greatly depends on specific details. Fast googling gives 4th level Cleric spell Night's Mantle for 10minutes/level, with a 1000 gold spell component, as well as
    Semblance of Life, 7th level sorcerer/wizard spell with a 100 gp spell component.
    So the lower limit is 4th level, and the upper is something Epic (you ARE eliminating one of the major weaknesses of vampires).

  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Proposal:

    In a recent Strip, Durkon Holy Worded the Linear Guild. Z'zdriti was deafened but not blinded (as Tarquin could Drow Sign Language him). Therefore Z= Level 16. In Strip 795, Varsuuvius says that Z'zdriti is of equal level to him. Therefore, Z and V are both Level 16.

    By the same logic, since Nale is level 16 and he is the rival of Elan, they are both the same level. Meaning Elan the bard is level 16.

  15. - Top - End - #435
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Proposal:

    In a recent Strip, Durkon Holy Worded the Linear Guild. Z'zdriti was deafened but not blinded (as Tarquin could Drow Sign Language him). Therefore Z= Level 16. In Strip 795, Varsuuvius says that Z'zdriti is of equal level to him. Therefore, Z and V are both Level 16.

    By the same logic, since Nale is level 16 and he is the rival of Elan, they are both the same level. Meaning Elan the bard is level 16.
    Yeah, I was thinking something like this some days ago and I Agree with you.

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    By the same logic, since Nale is level 16 and he is the rival of Elan, they are both the same level. Meaning Elan the bard is level 16.
    I'm sorry, but that isn't the same logic. I am unsure how V can tell that shi is the same level as Z, but shi did say as much. Is there a similar sentence from either Elan or Nale? Because I disagree with the statement that the are "rivals" (which I take to mean the kind of relationship that ties Haley and her sworn enemy). They are opponents, certainly, and they dislike each other, but that cannot be enough to tie levels gains. That would require an extensive background, not just being enemies since Nale run Elan through.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    They're identical twins opposed to each other. Is that not enough? Rich even said they have the same physical stats.

  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Yeah, I can't see how Nale can't possibly be Elan's Rival, opposed alignent, name, identical twins, it's like if they won the Rival Stereotype Lottery.

  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    They're identical twins opposed to each other. Is that not enough? Rich even said they have the same physical stats.
    Yes, that is not enough. If two identical twins are born in OotS, one spends his entire life sitting in their parent's couch, and the other goes on adventures and gain levels, the coach potato doesn't get to gain free levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    I would be very surprised to learn that any two of the nine* adventurers currently making up the Order of the Stick and the Linear Guild are different levels**.

    *If Tarquin, Malack, and Kilkil are Linear Guild members, Redcloak has a bridge to Terebithia to sell you.
    **ECL for Sabine may interfere with this. But something--either her actual class level or her ECL--is the same as the level of Nale, which is the same as the level of Haley, which is the same as the level of Roy, etc., etc.

  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    the level of Haley, which is the same as the level of Roy, etc., etc.
    Wait, I thought it was a fact that Roy's level was lagging well behind the rest of the party, due to him having been dead while they continued to gain levels, and then loosing a level due to being resurrected. The first post certainly states as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Though Malack is listed as being a vampire on the front page, shouldn't we also include his +8 level adjustment, to have a total character level of at least 19?

  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Wait, I thought it was a fact that Roy's level was lagging well behind the rest of the party, due to him having been dead while they continued to gain levels, and then loosing a level due to being resurrected. The first post certainly states as much.

    GW
    As I said, I doubt it. It's certainly not a "fact" in that anyone in the comic or Rich on the boards has stated as much.

    In any event, while there are things in the first post I disagree with (pegging Durkon at exactly level 15 and Belkar at exactly level 16, for one thing), for Roy it only says that he's level 12+ (because he has neither cast a seventh or eighth-level spell, nor announced that he has the feat Improved Precise Shot with all-rogue levels, nor made a joke about old-D&D attack ranks which is being taken to mean way more than it should); if he's level 16, that's 12+. Rich has not made a joke about Roy being lower level than the rest of the Order in the quite-some-time since Roy was resurrected. He still could, at any time, of course, but the longer he goes without doing so the more likely it seems that he never will. And his wanting to make such a joke is the only reason he would have Roy be lower level than the rest of the Order.
    Last edited by Kish; 2013-02-25 at 06:34 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #444
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Proposal:

    In a recent Strip, Durkon Holy Worded the Linear Guild. Z'zdriti was deafened but not blinded (as Tarquin could Drow Sign Language him). Therefore Z= Level 16. In Strip 795, Varsuuvius says that Z'zdriti is of equal level to him. Therefore, Z and V are both Level 16.

    By the same logic, since Nale is level 16 and he is the rival of Elan, they are both the same level. Meaning Elan the bard is level 16.
    Drow have an LA+2, we don't know if V includes that in his calculations...

  25. - Top - End - #445
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Hi everyone. I'm quite new in this thread so I'm sorry if I'm asking something that has already been discussed (I've read here and there but 15 pages are way too much).
    I was wondering about Belkar's classes: we know he should have a sprinkle of barbarian, and we know even that the Giant shows a character levelling up just when it has a meaning (so not in the most of cases). The halfling was still a barbarian if we assume his last words as a barbaric rage, but he had a lot of dealing with undead (back in Azure city) and a few occasion levelling, having been sick and then imprisoned. Now, before of the decision of embracing him Malack hit him with some black energy. So my doubt: could Belkar have been sent back in levels to a pure ranger?
    Last edited by Meph; 2013-02-25 at 07:10 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Level drain doesn't work like that in 3.xed. Right now, Belkar has however many negative levels Malack inflicted on him. Each reduces his attacks by 1...and various other stuff.

    24 hours after they were inflicted, if Belkar has not yet received a Restoration spell, the negative levels will go away, and Belkar will need to make a number of Fortitude saves equal to the number of negative levels he had. For each Fortitude save he fails, he will lose a level.

  27. - Top - End - #447

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Doesn't Death Ward remove negative levels anyway?

    Or is that just in Pathfinder.

  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by EatAtEmrakuls View Post
    Doesn't Death Ward remove negative levels anyway?

    Or is that just in Pathfinder.
    Nah, Death Ward is just sunscreen. It'll keep Belkar from getting more negative levels, but what's done is done.

  29. - Top - End - #449
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Yes, that is not enough. If two identical twins are born in OotS, one spends his entire life sitting in their parent's couch, and the other goes on adventures and gain levels, the coach potato doesn't get to gain free levels.

    GW
    But if two people become rivals, then this becomes the case. And Nale/Elan is the most obvious rivalry in the comic by far.

  30. - Top - End - #450

    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Math_Mage View Post
    But if two people become rivals, then this becomes the case. And Nale/Elan is the most obvious rivalry in the comic by far.
    I don't know about this honestly.

    I think too much stock is being put into a one-off joke about a bit-part villain.

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