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2012-09-22, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2012-09-23, 04:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- An Abyssal Tower
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
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2012-09-23, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
True, that's a factor I hadn't taken into account. I don't imagine that effect would come into play with the color circles they were using, though.
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2012-09-23, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- SW England
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Another thing to consider: how we name colours depends on context.
"White" people are usually pink or pinky-brown.
"White" grapes are green.
"White" wine is greeny-yellow.
Also, how we percieve colour also depends on what other colours and shades we see with them, as in this optical illusion:
http://www.popularscience.co.uk/?p=1478
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2012-09-23, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Pelican City
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
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2012-09-23, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- This Sceptred Isle
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
I think you meant two cone systems rather than just cones (see Trog's link to Opponent Coding Processes). Opponent Process is the reason we can't perceive a reddish-green or a blueish-yellow. To account for the opponent-appearance of colours there are two chromatic (red-green and blue-yellow) opponent systems and one achromatic (black-white) opponent system.The first stage of colour vision is trichromatic (involving three types of detectors at the photoreceptor stage) and the second stage involves these three opponent processes.
The image below should help:
As a key, L stands for Long Wavelenth Light, or red. M stands for Medium Wavelength, or green. S stands for Short Wavelength, or blue.
Ignore the first system.
If the eye is exposed to red light for a period of time, the red receptor (L) will become fatigued. Then, if white light is presented, the white light will appear green.
As there is no receptor for yellow, it is substituted with a red/green system. The same applies. If the eye is exposed to blue light for a period of time, the blue receptor (S) will become fatigued. Then, if white light is presented, the white light will appear yellow.
There are many different types of colour deficiency (only one true type of colour blindness). By Red/Green colour blindness, you can either mean Dichromacy or Anomalous trichromacy. Dichromacy is when you are missing a certain cone (protanopia is the lack of a L cone (red) and deuteranopia is lack of a M cone (green)). Anomalous trichromacy is when the sensitivity of a certain cone is not at usual parameters (protanomaly is when the L cone is shifted towards the M cone and deuteranomaly is when the M cone is shifted towards the M cone.)
In the 90s there were a lot of new theories presented as fact that have now been disproved.
The main reason this happens is that one eye is slightly adapted to certain wavelengths of light. In the average situation, you're not getting exactly the same light in both eyes. As with above, it's possible that when you noticed this, the light entering your right eye had been more yellow, fatiguing the R/G system in that eye and causing white light to appear bluer. It's not permanent though. I had the same thing happen to me quite a lot, because of where MY window was in MY room. One eye got different light levels, resulting in the different appearances of a white surface...
I think that's everything.
tl:dr
The neural system of vision is funky!Last edited by GrlumpTheElder; 2012-09-26 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Just correcting grammer miztoks.
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2012-09-24, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Central Iowa
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
William Gladstone, on-again off-again British Prime Minister, advanced a theory in the 1850's that Greeks of Homer's time (and I think people in general using Homer's text as just a source text) hadn't developed/were only then developing color vision due to the things you point out. That's pretty much discounted these days, more accepting that they simply had grouped colors by intensity/saturation rather than specific frequencies.
Guy Deutscher's Through the Language Glass discusses this and other color/thought-process/perception crossovers. I found it interesting. One of my favorite bits was how the language that was the source of the word "kangaroo" has no relative directional words (left, right, front, behind, etc.) - they use the equivalent of cardinal directions for everything.Take your best shot, everyone else does.
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2012-09-25, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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- Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Thanx it seems like some sort of version of this is what they were trying to get accross. Though they did not present it a cone systems. (They had a picture of two cones on the movie screen-one for red/green and one for blue/yellow) I'm going to put that down to it being a psych class not anatomy or vision science. Thank you for that explination.
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2012-09-27, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Pink wasn't named until the 17th Century, and even then it was yellow.
Glowstick, Snip, Paint.
Its a little bit toxic though.π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-10-03, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
"Individual capability", I guess? I think of the word "culture" as referring to how people interact with each other. By which standard the language difference itself is the cultural element, and color discrimination is the related not inherently cultural thingy.
That I did not know, and it's fascinating. I am tempted to drop a [citation needed] on you though.
(Dinosaur Comics! Where dinosaurs discuss linguistics, complete with references! Sometimes!)
Eh, that's correctable for.
The point is not an important one - the point is that, whether we decide to use frequency or wavelength, we do have a quantitative way to describe colour.
The two measures will not consistently produce identical results! How is that not important?
I'm allowed to suspect whatever I want to suspect. That's what a hypothesis is. It remains a hypothesis until either disproved or sufficient supporting evidence is obtained.
(Assigning a theory a probability of exactly 0% or 100% means planning to never interpret further evidence as contradicting what you presently believe, no matter what you observe. At which point you've abandoned empiricism with regard to that particular issue.)
Looking at stoplights as I've walked around, I've found that some of them are at least close to cyan whereas others really are decidedly green. It seems that there can be considerable variation between the lights even in a relatively small area, sometimes.
More of a peach; that is to say, a light orangish color. Whereas "black" people are brown, i.e. ... a dark orangish color.
Human skin doesn't really vary much in hue.
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2012-10-06, 06:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
The easiest way would be to measure both frequency and wavelength, and see if it's even an issue with the colours used. It could well be that there isn't a problem with those specific colours, that wavelength and frequency agree. If not, well, I'm sure someone somewhere has done an official scale of colour similarity. Hmm, this looks relevant. Bit dense for me, though.
It's quite easy to disprove a hypothesis, all you need is a single counterexample. Regardless, as neither of us have actually presented any new concrete evidence, I've not had anything to modify my hypothesis probabilities with. The paper I linked above might well answer the question; unffortunately I can't understand it.Last edited by Heliomance; 2012-10-06 at 06:27 AM.
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2012-10-06, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-10-07, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Even so, I have little doubt that one could devise some third scale that would "disagree with" both. My point is that the scale chosen matters.
Treating similarity as something that you can measure means taking something you can measure and calling it "similarity". But this is simply playing games with language, is it not?
If not, well, I'm sure someone somewhere has done an official scale of colour similarity.
Hmm, this looks relevant. Bit dense for me, though.
It's quite easy to disprove a hypothesis, all you need is a single counterexample.
Furthermore, probabilistic hypotheses -- e.g. "This coin will come up tails half of the times it's flipped" -- don't really have counterexamples.
Regardless, as neither of us have actually presented any new concrete evidence, I've not had anything to modify my hypothesis probabilities with.
Nope!
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2012-10-07, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- London, EU
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Going back to the OP
The Romans and Byzantines used Red, White, Green and Blue for their chariot racing.
Maybe they didn't have Yellow paint ?π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-10-07, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
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2012-10-08, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Lost in the Town
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Re: Why Red, Blue, Yellow and... Green?
Just came across this while watching Netflix. I thought it was appropriate to this conversation and that you folks might find it interesting. Enjoy!
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