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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Well, I'm about to join a campaign and having recently acquired a copy of the ToM I decided to play a truenamer. I now regret that decision and the fact that I really do want to play one. I really need help, and don't care much for cheese.

    How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    This is a great guide to all things truenaming. I don't know much else that isn't already in there.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    [Insert mandatory derogatory comment on how bad Truenamer is]

    Now, Truenamer is a relatively bad class, but that doesn't mean that you cant enjoy it. Plus, the capstone is kinda neat.

    If you could get your DM to let you Gestalt it with a deacent Teir 5, 6, or maybe even 4 class, then you can handle the low levels, just promise him not to abuse free gate.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    ...oh dear.

    The problem with Truenamer is not that it's unsalvageably weak, it's that it's poorly designed at all stages. It's at its absolute weakest in a low-level, low-op game. A lvl 12 Truenamer in a higher-op game can actually do some pretty useful things. A lvl 2 Truenamer in a low-op game though? Boy howdy, you're in for a time.

    More than that, there's some massively contradictory information, and some stuff that's missing entirely. It's easily the most poorly-edited base class in the game and it's this more than the power issues that renders it unplayable.

    I'll recommend this Truenamer fix as solving both those problems.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    You're going to have to pick skill focus as your first level feat. If you're human you'll want the +2 to trunaming and +2 to (something else) feat.

    That's right, trunamer is so bad you actually have to take one of those dreadful +2/+2 feats to make it work at low-levels. Don't forget your masterwork tool of trunaming (whatever the devil it is.)


    If you're group is Xtremely (that's right, I spelled "extreme" mtv style for this) low-op you -MIGHT- be able to keep up until mid level. Good luck and the gods help you.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Follow the guide linked above, make sure that you're part of the Paragnostic Assembly and you may even enjoy the experience
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Don't be so afraid!
    Truenamer IS a bad class, but if you you get all the +truenaming stuff and the good utterances you'll be ok.

    5(ranks) + 4(int) + 2(mwk item) + 3 (skill focus) = +14 on your truenaming check (whixh is not THAT bad) with no investment except for the Skill Focus (which you HaVE to take anyway)


    later on, get the Amulet of silver tongue, a custom +truenaming enhancement item (you can) and join the paragnostic assembly.

    (yeah, and read that handbook)
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    Don't be so afraid!
    Truenamer IS a bad class, but if you you get all the +truenaming stuff and the good utterances you'll be ok.

    5(ranks) + 4(int) + 2(mwk item) + 3 (skill focus) = +14 on your truenaming check (whixh is not THAT bad) with no investment except for the Skill Focus (which you HaVE to take anyway)


    later on, get the Amulet of silver tongue, a custom +truenaming enhancement item (you can) and join the paragnostic assembly.

    (yeah, and read that handbook)
    Becoming a mythic exhemplar is much more wothy imho (+4 and take 10)

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by docnessuno View Post
    Becoming a mythic exhemplar is much more wothy imho (+4 and take 10)
    that's actually the exemplar class from complete adventurer that lets you do that, not complete champion's mythic exemplar. easy mistake to make.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Badly.
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    Intelligence is knowing a Tomato is a fruit.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thefurmonger View Post
    How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Badly.
    What I have to say has nothing to do with your post, but rather your signature. A tomato is not a fruit in the way that people commonly think of fruits. A tomato is a vegetable, but the part of the vegetable plant that it constitutes is the fruit of the plant. However, it is still a part of the vegetable plant and is still a vegetable, easily evidenced by the lack of fructose, which is the sugar specific to fruits. Sorry for being nitpicky.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    But, er, yeah. The thing is that even with something ludicrous like +1000 to truespeak checks, you still wouldn't be very good. Not even counting the bad editing which has been mentioned, they just get really lame powers in general. I could count the decent ones on one hand, and most of them are high level. The rest are unoriginal, low-powered, and just kind of useless.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Zoat View Post
    Well, I'm about to join a campaign and having recently acquired a copy of the ToM I decided to play a truenamer. I now regret that decision and the fact that I really do want to play one. I really need help, and don't care much for cheese.

    How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?
    I recommend human for the usual reasons, but any race with an int bonus is also pretty awesome. Anything with an int penalty is going to be a poor choice. Illumian is also an excellent choice.

    The utterance that gives +5 to any skill check is awesome. You want it.

    Truenaming should be maxed, obviously. UMD, also obviously, should be maxed. The other notable options for skills are mostly knowledge skills, so pimp whatever of those you prefer.

    Now, you can either rely on truenaming or UMD for damage...if truenaming, you'll want to pick up the word of nurturing. If UMD...can use that for another option. Inertia Surge is a fantastic utility option.

    For feats, you want Skill Focus: Truenaming and Favored in Guild(ravenloft version, not cityscape), for a total of +5. Other skill boosting feats exist, but this is pretty unarguably low cheese, and core is pretty guaranteed to be available. If flaws are allowed, look into additional skill boosting feats. I'm a big fan of Keen Intellect(+1 to int checks) and Flexible Mind(+1 to two skills, which are now always class skills).

    Gear-wise, you won't likely have much gold to start with. Get a MW tool of truenaming, the usual adventurers thingies(rope, etc), and if cash is left over, something to UMD.

    It'll feel like most low level casters. You've got a few spell-like thingies you can pop off, but a backup weapon is advisable until you get a broader repertoire of abilities and more endurance.

    Really, pick your utterances well, and keep a healthy bonus to Truenaming, and you'll be aright.
    Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2012-08-29 at 11:25 AM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    What I have to say has nothing to do with your post, but rather your signature. A tomato is not a fruit in the way that people commonly think of fruits. A tomato is a vegetable, but the part of the vegetable plant that it constitutes is the fruit of the plant. However, it is still a part of the vegetable plant and is still a vegetable, easily evidenced by the lack of fructose, which is the sugar specific to fruits. Sorry for being nitpicky.
    lolwut? A tomato is a berry, like a grape or a watermelon. We consume it like a vegetable because in 1896 the Supreme Court decided to regulate it like a vegetable so it could be subject to trade tarrifs. The supreme court admitted this explicitly in its brief.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I'm a big fan of Keen Intellect(+1 to int checks) and Flexible Mind(+1 to two skills, which are now always class skills).
    where are these two feats? I've never heard of them before, they sound like they'd be really useful in iron chefs in the future to retain/obtain class skills. could you tell me what book they're in?
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    However, it is still a part of the vegetable plant and is still a vegetable, easily evidenced by the lack of fructose, which is the sugar specific to fruits. Sorry for being nitpicky.
    Erm. What? Did you just make up a fact for the sake of nitpicking? Because that's patently untrue.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    lolwut? A tomato is a berry, like a grape or a watermelon. We consume it like a vegetable because in 1896 the Supreme Court decided to regulate it like a vegetable so it could be subject to trade tarrifs. The supreme court admitted this explicitly in its brief.
    correct indeed taxonomically speaking. if it has seeds, it is a fruit. I thought it was the other way around though, that the sweet "sinful" fruits were taxed as luxury goods. and tomatoes, not being sweet, were exempt as being vegatables so being treated more as staples like potatoes and turnips.

    tomatoes do not lack fructose entirely, they just don't have as much of it as some other fruits do, which is why they don't taste sweet.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    You are eating the wrong tomatoes.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    You are eating the wrong tomatoes.
    well, some heirloom or beefsteak tomatoes can be more on the sweet side, but they're not as sweet as like a grape or strawberry.

    As far as truenamer goes, I think that as mentioned earlier, a 1 level exemplar dip at level 11 (you're gonna have SF truenaming anyway and max ranks in truenaming) in order to take 10 on a truespeak check will be pretty useful, unless you think your game is going to run all the way to 20, in which case you won't get your gate ability. if you figure you're capping at any level before 20, I would suggest the exemplar dip, it'll really help a lot.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    This is all very interesting, because the truename of the tomato is Solanumlycopersicumnixvheddenlycopenetomahto.
    Last edited by Novawurmson; 2012-08-29 at 01:45 PM.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Why do I get the feeling there is a tomato-truenamer joke somewhere out there??

    Clearly the tomato is a hybrid plant that god put on earth to cause arguments on the internet...

    Yeah sure let's go with that :)
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by eggs View Post
    Erm. What? Did you just make up a fact for the sake of nitpicking? Because that's patently untrue.
    Really? Because we spent like two weeks researching them as a class in a course entirely about food, and I have a hard time believing that the entirety of that was untrue.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    This is glorious, I want to sig this. Is that okay with you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    Really? Because we spent like two weeks researching them as a class in a course entirely about food, and I have a hard time believing that the entirety of that was untrue.
    There's no taxonomic or botanic definition of vegetable anywhere. Where are you getting yours, exactly? And your fructose definition really doesn't hold water. The fructose content of tomatoes can be quite high.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-08-29 at 04:41 PM.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    There's no taxonomic or botanic definition of vegetable anywhere. Where are you getting yours, exactly? And your fructose definition really doesn't hold water. The fructose content of tomatoes can be quite high.
    It was admittedly about three years ago, so I don't remember a decent portion of the stuff we talked about, mainly just what I cited up there. Those were all points that were emphasized over the course of it all, and if they were untrue I'm gonna be pretty ticked both about that and the fact that it could be taught that way if it wasn't true.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Play an Illumian. Flaws for Skill Focus and Extend Utterance. Get the +2 masterwork tool. Then get the biggest competance bonus item you can afford. +4 is 1600, +5 is 2500, +3 is only 900, so relatively cheap at first.

    You're gonna get a lot of use out of your crossbow, so, don't expect to all cast all the time yet.

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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    This is glorious, I want to sig this. Is that okay with you?
    Go for it.
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    Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    IIRC Truenamers also got all Knowledge as class skills and had 3/4 BAB so Knowledge devotion (if you have a feat free) might not be bad alternative if(when?) your utterances fail.
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    Default Re: How do you build a level 2 Truenamer?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Redwolf View Post
    Really? Because we spent like two weeks researching them as a class in a course entirely about food, and I have a hard time believing that the entirety of that was untrue.
    Really.
    Cherry tomatoes contain around 18g fructose/kg. For reference, a honeydew melon contains 21g fructose/kg, so that's not some order-of-magnitude-lower number than other fruits.

    EDIT:
    On-topic, you're probably going to want to try to get something to Item Familiar before level 3. Even without the XP investment, Item Familiars might be a bit cheesy, but they at least make the Truenamer's Truespeach check scale appropriately, leaving it free to deal with the class's other concerns.

    The Truenamers I've seen not suck have taken a support buffer/debuffer role with the magic/time/flight-powers, and taking a secondary gish position with Knowledge Devotion and UMD.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-08-29 at 06:32 PM.

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