XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[RagingKrikkit]

As we go into the second page, X-COM has no support, I'm guessing, because they're so limited budget-wise.

Either that or it would make the game too easy.

[tensai_oni]

These are urban missions. Sure, you could airstrike a whole suburb just because someone saw aliens there - but that wouldn't exactly portray X-Com as competent now, would it. Not to mention, hard to get artifacts and corpses for research when everything has been blasted into fine ash. Same for terror missions and rescuing civilians.

If the new game is anything like the old one, the alien invasion is a small force that operates more like RL terrorists and less like an army, acting through subterfuge and exerting tension on the governments, taking them over and trying to get X-Com canned. It's asymmetric warfare, where normal human military is overall stronger than the alien force - but the aliens do not try to strike directly, so it doesn't matter.

[RagingKrikkit]

The aliens were always stronger, but yes, they never went for a full-on invasion. There was a theory about that somewhere on the wiki...

[Muz]

I'm still chafing over the size of X-Com squads, though. I hear 4, "upgradable" to 6? Hopefully my opinion will change when I play the game, but for now, it bothers me.

"Sir! There's a landing craft from another planet in Seattle! It's filled with alien soldiers and hideous creatures! They've swarmed Pike Place Market! They've already killed 12 people and destroyed the pig statue!"

"Holy crap! We're being paid to stop this! Send...I dunno, Mike, Sam, Fiona, and Jesse."

"Four, sir?"

"What, too many? I owe Jesse money, so..."

It's like Cave Johnson's running things or something. (Not that you could tell that by my poorly written dialogue, but...) Global threat. Four people.

[tensai_oni]

From a global scale it makes little difference whether you send 4, 6 or 14 people. But they're not the only soldiers around - in my headcanon at least the area is cordoned off, with a force ready to blow the whole place to smithereens if X-Com fails. But that would count as a major political failure for the organisation (see my post above) so it's a last-resort option. It's what probably happens on missions you ignore.

As to why the squads are so tiny - gameplay reasons. That way you must care about every single one of your soldiers' lives, and every casualty is a major blow. Who cares when a door-opening rookie gets blown up if 13 more wait in the Skyranger?

The Aftershock series had squads of 6-7 people and it worked fine. The gameplay footage shows that such small squads work even better here.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I see squad size a sort of gameplay and story segregation. Just like in MMOs the very important town consists of 8 buildings and 3 quest NPCs, 5 flavor NPCs and 6 vendors. Having a normal sized town would just be cumbersome and un-fun.

[Muz]

You're right, I suppose (and I forgot to mention that yeah, 6 isn't all that different from 12 in terms of my argument). But I'm frightened by change.

(I'm still planning to buy the game, and at least have faith for the moment that it'll be reasonably well-done. ...Unlike the FPS which shall not be spoken of.)

Edit: Here's an hour-long gameplay video released this week. I've only seen the first ten minutes, but...I like. :) The video doesn't actually start until about 4 minutes in, though...

[Cespenar]

Six members sound better than four from a tactical standpoint, though. Four is more like a "closed quarters" team.

[McNum]

XCOM: Enemy Unkown is my most anticipated game this year. It just looks right.

And, yes, you DO just "shoot" a Chryssalid. With Blaster Bombs. Then again, I have actually sen a 'lid take a bomb to the face and not die. That's when you should panic.

[tensai_oni]

One more thing caught my eye. Did you see the tiny fragment of the geoscape in that one-hour preview? The Skyranger crossed the globe in mere minutes, it was ridiculously fast.

That would make X-Com a super-fast response team. Perhaps this is the in-character explanation for the small team size - the whole of humanity has only one such a vehicle, and it can only fit so many people.

Okay, now I'm fanwanking. Best to wait for the game's release, and then we'll know for sure.

[RagingKrikkit]

XCOM: Enemy Unkown is my most anticipated game this year. It just looks right.

And, yes, you DO just "shoot" a Chryssalid. With Blaster Bombs. Then again, I have actually sen a 'lid take a bomb to the face and not die. That's when you should panic.

I have never been as worked up for a game as this one.

And Blaster Bombs are "nuking" not "shooting".

One more thing caught my eye. Did you see the tiny fragment of the geoscape in that one-hour preview? The Skyranger crossed the globe in mere minutes, it was ridiculously fast.

That would make X-Com a super-fast response team. Perhaps this is the in-character explanation for the small team size - the whole of humanity has only one such a vehicle, and it can only fit so many people.

Okay, now I'm fanwanking. Best to wait for the game's release, and then we'll know for sure.

It was my impression that they are ignoring the actual travel of the Skyranger, and simply going into and out of the mission without actually dealing with the travel element.

[Triaxx]

When it comes to a Chrysalid, nuking is nothing more than a good START.

I haven't been this excited since Skyrim.

[Krade]

So anyone want to exchange GTs for the multiplayer? I don't think any of my friends are getting it. None of them ever played the old one and for some reason I can't get them to buy it off Steam. I mean, it's what, $5?

Edit: I'm on Xbox, by the way.

[t209]

What will the recommended armory and tactics in X-Com since the new game mode changes the main tactics?
1. Red Shirt is no longer viable
2. Rocket Drones?
3. Drone as bullet shield?

[Cespenar]

What will the recommended armory and tactics in X-Com since the new game mode changes the main tactics?
1. Red Shirt is no longer viable
2. Rocket Drones?
3. Drone as bullet shield?

Special abilities will take a front seat, it seems like. Earlier, it was all about innate stats.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm thinking that SHIVs will be the new redshirts. They'll always be sent ahead into potential threat zones, always the first to be potentially sacrificed for something, etc. Even if they cost piles of money, they likely won't be nearly as valuable as soldiers. Plus, free partial cover for anyone behind them.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I'm thinking that SHIVs will be the new redshirts. They'll always be sent ahead into potential threat zones, always the first to be potentially sacrificed for something, etc. Even if they cost piles of money, they likely won't be nearly as valuable as soldiers. Plus, free partial cover for anyone behind them.

They look like the lovechild of a redshirt and a HWP to me.

[tensai_oni]

Chryssalids are overrated. Sectopods is where the fear's at.

I'm thinking that SHIVs will be the new redshirts. They'll always be sent ahead into potential threat zones, always the first to be potentially sacrificed for something, etc. Even if they cost piles of money, they likely won't be nearly as valuable as soldiers. Plus, free partial cover for anyone behind them.

So, nothing changes then?

As for shift in game tactics:
The new game will use tactical positioning rather than rookie zerg rush. The way the original X-Com was meant to be played, and some of us (yours truly for example) actually played it that way.

[McNum]

Yeah, I don't fear the new Chryssalids as much as the old ones. Looks like they're bound by move-action, too, which means they'll only kill one X-Com agent per turn. The old ones could end up 1 vs. 6 and still come out of it with six zombies in one turn. They were just suddenly there, doing their thing.

The new Sectopod, though, looks menacing. It's huge. 2x2x2, it seems. The new Cyberdisks look like fun, too. Giving them a transformation was a good idea.

[tensai_oni]

Err, I meant old X-Com's Chryssalids being overrated. They are fast, but also really stupid and waste most of their action points running back and forth like morons. Not to mention, they have only melee attacks - very deadly melee attacks, but still that means no counter fire.

And also you can just fly up and completely neutralize any threat they pose.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So, nothing changes then?

Almost, now the tank can fit through doorways without widening them first.

Err, I meant old X-Com's Chryssalids being overrated. They are fast, but also really stupid and waste most of their action points running back and forth like morons. Not to mention, they have only melee attacks - very deadly melee attacks, but still that means no counter fire.

And also you can just fly up and completely neutralize any threat they pose.

Right, and until you get the top-of-the-line Flying Armor, they will consistently remain a threat. Also, they don't need ranged attacks. They can run more distance in one turn than you can accurately shoot at (or see, especially at night), and still have enough TUs to whack you in the face a few times. They compensate for weapon range with movement range, and they're fast enough not to fall to reaction fire all too often.

[Cespenar]

And also you can just fly up and completely neutralize any threat they pose.

Now, Tentaculats, on the other hand...

[McNum]

Err, I meant old X-Com's Chryssalids being overrated. They are fast, but also really stupid and waste most of their action points running back and forth like morons. Not to mention, they have only melee attacks - very deadly melee attacks, but still that means no counter fire.

And also you can just fly up and completely neutralize any threat they pose.

Ah, but that's the beauty of the original.

In the beginning, Sectoids and Floaters are dangerous because you have no armor and pathetic weapons. When you upgrade to Laser Rifles and Personal Armor, you're okay against these foes. Enter the Snakemen and their terrifying pets. You just got Power Armor and it's awesome. The out of the dark comes one of these things and kills half your squad. That half squad then becomes more of these things. Exponential failure scenario.

So you learn to use sight and get Flying Armor. Then the Mutons arrive, more or less forcing you to go for Heavy Plasma. Then... Etherals, who'll turn that Heavy Plasma you're using against you. Flight or no flight, Etherals are bad news. Until you catch one alive and finally get your own trump card. Then you're ready to win.

It's a wonderful sense of feeling weak, the powerful, the weak, then powerful, then utterly humbled, then superhuman. That's X-Com in a nutshell, basically. I really hope the new one nails that feeling.

[Krade]

One of my favorite things to do in the original was mind control a cryssalid, make it pick up a gun, then have it shoot another alien. It's accuracy is 0%, but at point blank, that doesn't matter so much. You just have to be careful, because if you lose control while they are still carrying the gun, they can shoot at you. Sure there's still the 0% accuracy thing, but you'd be surprised how much of handicap that isn't. See also, "Cheating Computer".

[tensai_oni]

It's a wonderful sense of feeling weak, the powerful, the weak, then powerful, then utterly humbled, then superhuman. That's X-Com in a nutshell, basically. I really hope the new one nails that feeling.

Unless you played X-Com so many times that you know which techs to shoot for immediately, ending up with Hyper Wave Decoders in Februray, Flying Suits in March and psionics in April. But that's just excessive... so of course I do that all the time.

EDIT:

Livestrime on PAX, going on pretty much now.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Plus, free partial cover for anyone behind them.

It was mentioned that in the video, they were using a SHIV specifically upgraded for that ability.

[Zen Master]

I'm still chafing over the size of X-Com squads, though. I hear 4, "upgradable" to 6? Hopefully my opinion will change when I play the game, but for now, it bothers me.

"Sir! There's a landing craft from another planet in Seattle! It's filled with alien soldiers and hideous creatures! They've swarmed Pike Place Market! They've already killed 12 people and destroyed the pig statue!"

"Holy crap! We're being paid to stop this! Send...I dunno, Mike, Sam, Fiona, and Jesse."

"Four, sir?"

"What, too many? I owe Jesse money, so..."

It's like Cave Johnson's running things or something. (Not that you could tell that by my poorly written dialogue, but...) Global threat. Four people.

It's not like that ......

Sure, from the outside it looks ludicrous, but listen:

The aliens arrive at a time when we're just blatantly, helplessly unprepared for them. Send in a thousand grunts, we'll be writing letters to their next of kin all week.

No. But as it so happens, there is a small group of scientist/philosopher/warriors who happen to have the tech and the training - they just might be able to make the difference that a brigade of grunts cannot.

Of course, they need funding. Every single item on their list, from guns to armor to transports, is cutting edge proto types ... it'll cost us - but they are our only hope.

[Aotrs Commander]

During the discussion of X-Com ponies (don't ask...) my interest has been peaked (the upcoming game looks very good, and I'm rather short on new games this year, so that might well make it onto the list.)

However, it occurs to me that an actual Xcom thread might be a better place to ask:

I'm almost half-interested, but then again, there's the new version on the horizon only a month or two away... And while I've not played X-Com, I have played a couple of it's clones (UFO: Aftermath (which I enjoyed) and it's sequals, Aftershock and Afterlight - both of which I was unable to complete, even on easy mode; I never seemed to have enough time - despite following FAQs and strategies - to research any useful stuff before the ridiculously hard monsters showed up wherein the game became a long slog where you ended up reloading everytime someone died (and they died frequently, with precious few reinforcements), because you had to rely on luck to complete the missions, i.e. luck in not getting killed, and injuries took forever to heal (it was a complex system in the latter two games as well; as I recall the sequels had permenant damage (healable only by out-of-mission-time) and healing items only healed mission damage. So it was quite possible to complete a mission, and have everyone in a really crappy state so you couldn't go anywhere for a bit. (And fat chance of having more than one team to swap in an out in those games; yer didn't have enough blokes, no enough time to train more than one team if you didn't...)

So if XCom is similarly as hard, I'm not sure it'd be worth the exercise in frustration. Have any of you played the UFOs and XComs to be able to see how they measure up so as to make a more concrete comparison? (I'm sorta half-guessing you'll tell me otherwise, but the games companies have all taught me of late not too touch a game with a bargepole until I have had a very close look into 'em.)

Additionally, given the games are on Steam, assuming they don't fall under "don't bother Bleakbane, you'll only do yer nut" difficulty, which would be the best out of the three to have a stab at, bearing in mind the upcoming remake of the first one and that I'm likely to only want to play one to start with? (And any fan-patches/bugfixes that might be useful to apply.)

[RagingKrikkit]

A large part of what made X-COM and its sequels/clones so hard is that they were consistently broken, giving the AI numerous advantages. The most infamous in the original is that you could only use psionic attacks on aliens you could see, while the aliens would perform mass mind-rape on your most psi-weak soldier the moment any of your troops (including tanks) was visible to them.

User-made patches have fixed some of these issues (but not the psi), but the new XCOM is built to be "tough but fair". It will probably be technically easier than the original, but only because the computer won't cheat (at least as obviously.)

[tyckspoon]

Additionally, given the games are on Steam, assuming they don't fall under "don't bother Bleakbane, you'll only do yer nut" difficulty, which would be the best out of the three to have a stab at, bearing in mind the upcoming remake of the first one and that I'm likely to only want to play one to start with? (And any fan-patches/bugfixes that might be useful to apply.)

X-Com original would be your best bet (UFO Defense.) Terror From the Deep is basically an X-Com Hard Mode mod, and Apocalypse is a different kind of game.