XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[Zevox]

Open question to the thread: What do y'all think about Assaults with rifles instead of shotguns? I've been experimenting with the setup, and I have to say I like it. It offers less damage than point-blank shotguns, but also offers a lot more range and makes Assaults be able to Overwatch worth a damn. And it's not like a point-blank Rifle Rapid Fire doesn't drop pretty much everything anyway. Overall, it just feels like a superior option.

It's certainly a good alternative, one I've used a lot. I was using it almost exclusively for a while, but I'm growing to like shotguns more, simply because run-and-gun synergizes so well with them and their damage and criticals are so impressive. Still, in my last game I was using one of each by the end, so I'm hardly giving up on rifle Assaults.

Zevox

[MCerberus]

It's certainly a good alternative, one I've used a lot. I was using it almost exclusively for a while, but I'm growing to like shotguns more, simply because run-and-gun synergizes so well with them and their damage and criticals are so impressive. Still, in my last game I was using one of each by the end, so I'm hardly giving up on rifle Assaults.

Zevox

Also plasma rifles are free!

[Anarion]

Also plasma rifles are free!

Only relevant for about a month. And during the period where I only have plasma and can't afford alloy shotguns I always give my assaults assault rifles, even if I'm otherwise building them entirely for shotgun usage.

Early on shotguns get guaranteed kills on sectoids and thin men that assault rifles don't. Later on, alloy cannon are noticeably stronger than plasma rifles and you have enough cash to get whatever you want.

[Binks]

Just finished my Normal playthrough (yeah, I'm a wimp, so sue me ). Lots of fun. Ended up with 12 casualties in total which was not too bad, especially not when I thought about where they were.
Tutorial Mission: Lost 3 guys, predetermined outcome
First Alien Base Assault: Lost 3 guys, very difficult encounter that I was not super happy about losing 3 guys on, but we were practically rookies at the time, Carapace and ARs, so not going to be too hard on myself for that one.
Time from First Alien Base Assault to Final Mission: Lost 3 guys, 2 to unlucky crits on guys in cover by the aliens during abduction missions (and the two soldiers to die in very similar ways were named after two brothers I know IRL), and the last an unfortunate rookie on his first mission who was the first and only guy to die breaching a UFO before I got SHIVs to do the dirty work.
Final Mission: Lost 3 guys, all of them Mind Controlled (in the same freaking round!) and forced into terrible circumstances.

So yeah, over 30 missions I only lost 3 guys on normal missions, and my other casualties were on what I think were the two hardest story missions. Not too bad overall. And lots of fun.

Now onto my completely for fun Warhammer 40K styled game. Easy Difficulty, all 4 hero units, rock and roll. . Space Marines vs. Sectoids is just hilarious, and Sid Meier is broken beyond all reason.

Finally finished the game.

Ending spoilers:

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Actually... I was wondering if there might have been an alternate ending if you kill the other enemies and not the super-Ethereal. It doesn't sound like there is, but maybe you're supposed to mind-control it to prove yourself, or something? I doubt there's actually a secret ending, but it would make marginally more sense... pop psi inspiration right before triggering the fight, trigger and mindfray as much as you can, and then try to mind-control it? But you'd have to do that in a single turn, since once it acts it'll mind-control someone and become immune...

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The uber was immune to MC even before it acted in my game (I managed to spot it but in that way that it didn't see me and trigger the other Ethereal warp ins). I had my volunteer pump up on Inspiration before running into the room specifically to try and MC an Ethereal for the Xavier achievement. When I targeted him with MC it said he was immune to it before I ever triggered him. When I targeted him immediately after triggering it still said immune. I think he's just plain immune to it and there is no alternate ending.

Did MC one of the other Ethereals for the achievement, and got him to rift himself and his buddy, which was fun, but the uber was just plain immune to MC.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Finally finished the game.

Ending spoilers:

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Actually... I was wondering if there might have been an alternate ending if you kill the other enemies and not the super-Ethereal. It doesn't sound like there is, but maybe you're supposed to mind-control it to prove yourself, or something? I doubt there's actually a secret ending, but it would make marginally more sense... pop psi inspiration right before triggering the fight, trigger and mindfray as much as you can, and then try to mind-control it? But you'd have to do that in a single turn, since once it acts it'll mind-control someone and become immune...

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There isn't. I killed head guy last, not knowing killing him would end the game. I had taken my assaults up the high ground on the wings, so when the enemies popped out, run and gun shotguns took care of the side ethereals, while my volunteer mentally controlled one of the mutons, which cancelled head guy's turn. My next turn, the other mutton went down and, after 2 rebounded attacks on head guy, sheer weight of numbers finally brought him down. No special ending.

Grey Wolf

[Cikomyr]

Can people give some details about the Hero units..?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Rename the unit to the appropriate name. Enjoy your super unit, but you can't get achievements.

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Joe Kelly - Heavy
Ken Levine - Sniper
Otto Zander - Assault
Sid Meier- Support

[RagingKrikkit]

Do we know of any besides Sid Meier? I tried Jake Solomon, but it didn't work.

Also, on the assault question, in my experience, the Alloy Cannon is the only shotgun worth using. And even then, I still have all but one of the assaults using plasma.

EDIT: Wow, question answered in ninja post.

[Anarion]

Do we know of any besides Sid Meier? I tried Jake Solomon, but it didn't work.

Also, on the assault question, in my experience, the Alloy Cannon is the only shotgun worth using. And even then, I still have all but one of the assaults using plasma.

I feel like I'm the only shotgun defender here. Anyway, the first regular shotgun is amazing. One of the biggest upgrades when promoting a rookie to an assault is that you know, 100% guaranteed that if you hit a sectoid or a thin man on classic, your shotgun will kill it. Assault rifles lots of times end up doing just 2 damage, or sometimes 3 to a thin man, but the shotgun will get the kill. That makes a humongous difference because it's the kind of variance you get on assault rifles that ends up leading to dead soldiers.

[RagingKrikkit]

Only problem being all the poision your shotgun troops end up swallowing from thin men.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Only problem being all the poision your shotgun troops end up swallowing from thin men.

Give them a medkit? It's the only case of AI cheating that I've noticed: thin men can tell which targets are immune to poison and won't target them with spit.

I'm with Anarion. Shotguns are great in Assaults. If I want/need a rifle, I can throw in a support guy. Rifle seldom needs run and gun since distance doesn't factor (much) into hit chance. My assaults did get the best guns when I needed to hit at a distance, for those crucial last few HPs.

Grey Wolf

[Anarion]

Only problem being all the poision your shotgun troops end up swallowing from thin men.

Do you mean from the spit or from their death? If it's from them dying, just don't move right next to the thin man. You will still hit them being 1 square away and the poison explosion never hits the assault as long as there's a one square space. They also won't get poisoned if they shoot around a corner.

If you mean from the spit, that's certainly an issue, but it's one related to not moving into unsafe spaces. If you're running your assault up blind or into a large group of enemies without a way to finish them off, you're asking for way more pain than just getting poisoned. The spit shouldn't be an issue because there shouldn't be other thin men firing on your assault (or if there are, it's a calculated risk and you were equally prepared to eat a plasma rifle crit).

Give them a medkit? It's the only case of AI cheating that I've noticed: thin men can tell which targets are immune to poison and won't target them with spit.

I'm with Anarion. Shotguns are great in Assaults. If I want/need a rifle, I can throw in a support guy. Rifle seldom needs run and gun since distance doesn't factor (much) into hit chance. My assaults did get the best guns when I needed to hit at a distance, for those crucial last few HPs.

Grey Wolf

I still prefer grenades, but I appreciate the support otherwise and agree with the overlap between supports and assaults.

[Chen]

Rename the unit to the appropriate name. Enjoy your super unit, but you can't get achievements.

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Joe Kelly - Heavy
Ken Levine - Sniper
Otto Zander - Assault
Sid Meier- Support

What kind of stats do these units have?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I still prefer grenades, but I appreciate the support otherwise and agree with the overlap between supports and assaults.

I like the +2 shirts at first, then the capturing device once I have it. But then, I never had a problem with thin men. Being poisoned is the least bad of insta-hits of the game (-3HP over three turns over being grenade'd? Yes please). But for all I know it is an issue in high difficulties - in which case, switching to the medikit is an excellent choice. But not that rifle is better than shotgun because of poison.

That said, I can't counteract Surrealistik's claim that shotguns are just dangerous. Everything I hear about spawning points in Impossible indicates that shotguns are extremely risky. But I wonder if once you have stealth they don't go back to being awesome. There is precious few enemies that can take two shotgun hits in a turn and stay upright, and for those you have HEAT. With better guns, too, the distance overwatch is covered. There is a point in which overwatch becomes wasted, since they all attack at once rather than one at a time and, if the enemy is killed, the others keep their shots.

Grey Wolf

[Anarion]

That said, I can't counteract Surrealistik's claim that shotguns are just dangerous. Everything I hear about spawning points in Impossible indicates that shotguns are extremely risky. But I wonder if once you have stealth they don't go back to being awesome. There is precious few enemies that can take two shotgun hits in a turn and stay upright, and for those you have HEAT. With better guns, too, the distance overwatch is covered. There is a point in which overwatch becomes wasted, since they all attack at once rather than one at a time and, if the enemy is killed, the others keep their shots.

Grey Wolf

They are. I've got an impossible run going (not ironman, just regular) and triggering spawns is a constant problem. That said, I find it to be a problem in several different ways, not one unique to the use of shotguns. Anything that requires shifting around your soldiers for better angles is likely to trigger more spawns there, and I don't see much that's reliable in that regard except lots of explosives and use of squad sight snipers and withdrawing. I haven't yet found assaults with shotguns to be any worse than most other stuff, and having a 15% hit chance with a shotgun at range doesn't affect your tactics at all because you weren't going to stand there with a 45% hit chance either, since missing is basically guaranteed to see that squad member die.

[Surrealistik]

I feel like I'm the only shotgun defender here. Anyway, the first regular shotgun is amazing. One of the biggest upgrades when promoting a rookie to an assault is that you know, 100% guaranteed that if you hit a sectoid or a thin man on classic, your shotgun will kill it. Assault rifles lots of times end up doing just 2 damage, or sometimes 3 to a thin man, but the shotgun will get the kill. That makes a humongous difference because it's the kind of variance you get on assault rifles that ends up leading to dead soldiers.

The CQC damage differential between Laser/Plasma Rifles and their Shotgun equivalents isn't worth the loss in range and flexibility, at least on Impossible. One shotting common Mutons with a crit is the main argument in favour of the Alloy Cannon.

[Anarion]

The CQC damage differential between Laser/Plasma Rifles and their Shotgun equivalents isn't worth the loss in range and flexibility, at least on Impossible. One shotting common Mutons with a crit is the main argument in favour of the Alloy Cannon.

I'll let you know my take on that when I get further into my impossible run, but I'm not sure I agree based on my playstyle. Also, 1-shotting a common muton seems like a worthwhile thing to do.

[Surrealistik]

I'll let you know my take on that when I get further into my impossible run, but I'm not sure I agree based on my playstyle. Also, 1-shotting a common muton seems like a worthwhile thing to do.

To be fair, I didn't really use Assaults all that much and when I did, they were more back up stopgaps for injured Heavies.

[Anarion]

To be fair, I didn't really use Assaults all that much and when I did, they were more back up stopgaps for injured Heavies.

I generally take one assault with me and use it for a few purposes. First, the defense bonus makes them ideal for hunkering down in front if you want the aliens to stay in place and fire. Second, if I'm falling back with all troops, I keep the assault furthest forward, again to draw fire and if aliens advance the assault becomes a solo kill with a high % chance of success. Third, if I've cleared out most of a room and am not worried about triggering a spawn, run and gun with a shotgun gives me a guaranteed kill when I need it.

[Surrealistik]

I will definitely say that they made good forward scouts due to the defense bonus and Lightning Reflexes when I used them, and didn't have Battlescanners to spare.

Still, I didn't feel they justified losing HEAT, the higher DPT and 3 rockets/2 nades worth of cover clearing and guaranteed AoE damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I will definitely say that they made good forward scouts due to the defense bonus and Lightning Reflexes when I used them, and didn't have Battlescanners to spare.

Still, I didn't feel they justified losing HEAT, the higher DPT and 3 rockets/2 nades worth of cover clearing and guaranteed AoE damage.

Really? They are, bar none, the best at live capturing aliens. For this alone, I prefer them over Heavy. Heck, I'd run 3x Assault, 2x Sniper, and Support before I'd run 3x Heavy, 2x Sniper, and Support.

[Surrealistik]

Really? They are, bar none, the best at live capturing aliens. For this alone, I prefer them over Heavy. Heck, I'd run 3x Assault, 2x Sniper, and Support before I'd run 3x Heavy, 2x Sniper, and Support.

I do take Assault along when I'm specifically looking to capture aliens, but my default, general purpose wrecking crew remains the latter as it strikes the best balance between killing efficiency and safety in my experience.

3x Assault though is kind of silly; you need cover destruction for Snipers to work optimally.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I do take Assault along when I'm specifically looking to capture aliens, but my default, general purpose wrecking crew remains the latter as it strikes the best balance between killing efficiency and safety in my experience.

3x Assault though is kind of silly; you need cover destruction for Snipers to work optimally.

Snipers become less necessary with 3x Assaults coordinating their movements to flank and exterminate. Just be careful of those Mutons and their grenades...

[Cikomyr]

I just had a very cool move where I used an Assault to Flush Out an enemy, while said enemy was in proximity to another Assault..

Guess who got a shotgun reaction shot? Awesome teamwork.

[Luzahn]

Was anybody else using flying snipers by the end? I don't know how effective it was, really, as this was on a normal runthrough, but I did enjoy having flying death machines smiting xenos from across the map.

I am somewhat ashamed of playing on normal, but my troops kept insisting on being slaughtered at the alien base on Classic and making the game unwinnable, and eventually I just wanted to beat the thing before doing a very hard run without spending too much time restarting.

[Krade]

So new team I just used successfully in two MP matches:

Sniper, Dead Eye type, Plasma Sniper Rifle and Archangel Armor (5200pts)
Sectoid Commander (3200pts)
Sectoid x4 (1600pts)

First turn the Commander uses Greater Mind Merge to boost all of the sectoids, who are then used as scouts for the sniper's Squadsight. The Sniper and Commander stay back because the Sniper doesn't need to advance and if the Commander dies, all of the others die. If something does get close, he can use Mind Control. Sectoids use Overwatch and Suppression excessively, and the sniper takes shots where it can, taking full advantage of the hieght bonus from the Archangel armor.

I initially went about building this team with two Commanders in mind, but with the remaining points, it was impossible to get a good sniper AND fodder.

[RagingKrikkit]

Rename the unit to the appropriate name. Enjoy your super unit, but you can't get achievements.

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Joe Kelly - Heavy
Ken Levine - Sniper
Otto Zander - Assault
Sid Meier- Support

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Really, Otto Zander made it in...

[Gamerlord]

So, new DLC has been announced.
Eugh, nothing in that list excites me. Zhang sounds like either a waste of money or a total game breaker, and I do not like the idea of paying to get early access to the end-game tech. I don't want the campaign to turn into "Zhang and a bunch of nobodies save the Earth", but neither do I want to pay money for a character who will probably get introduced to the wonders of the Chryssalid reproductive system or get zapped by a Muton on his first mission. I think I'm going to avoid this unless the new missions turn out to be awesome. What do you guys think?
Also, which poor fool is going to have to explain to the council why we are letting a gangster inside a top-secret base?

[mistformsquirrl]

Yeah, I admit I'm not impressed with the sound of that DLC. Depending on cost I may buy it solely for the customization options; but I admit I have a hard time justifying even 10 bucks for it. (5 I'd be willing to do... 10 is pushing it.)

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, I'm in favor of even more appearance customization options. As for the rest, meh, we'll see how it turns out I guess. It could work.