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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    So... started a Classic game yesterday (NOT Ironman, because I am not good enough for that, but only do a start save each battle so I have to start completely over).

    I can't say I have noticed any real differences in difficulty compared to Normal this early (4 battles). If anything, the way I am playing (very cautious) I am actually finding it easier at times, since the aliens will look for you and therefore trigger my Overwatch traps unlike in Normal where they just sit in a corner until you wave at them and say hi. I am aware, however that this probably is because I am bad enough that the difficulty doesn't matter...

    Most kills so far: Lola Ferrari (actually NOT a renamed character!) a female Italian sniper. Overwatch + SCOPE + Squad Sight is... Teh Sexxy.

    (Although most times I do well, each Sectoid or Thin Man movement trigger 1-3 Overwatch shootings. Not only her).

    Btw, what are your color codes? I keep mine simple (no real garish ones):
    Support: White
    Sniper: Black
    Everyone else: Kakhi (You can easily tell them apart because of the weapons (heavies have rocket launchers on their backs, assaults have shotgun, rookies have assault rifles).
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-01 at 02:51 AM.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Btw, what are your color codes? I keep mine simple (no real garish ones):
    Support: White
    Sniper: Black
    Everyone else: Kakhi (You can easily tell them apart because of the weapons (heavies have rocket launchers on their backs, assaults have shotgun, rookies have assault rifles).
    Sniper: Black
    Heavy: White (complete with Stormtrooper looking armor)
    Assault: Red (shirts)
    Support: Orange. But I'm starting to wonder why to bother with them
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I don't color code my troops. <. .> Instead, I give my team a uniform; which usually changes in color slightly as we get armor upgrades; and then my A-Team, that goes on the final mission always gets a special "loud" color for the final fight.

    My first game the team color started white, moved to silver, then the A-team went with Red for the last mission.

    My second game we started with black, moved to white, then the A-team went blue for the final mission.

    Current game is a bit different, since I'm deliberately building a very specific A-team based around a cast of characters from an old NaNoWriMo novel I did. Those characters are:

    Modi Magnus - White, in story a huge barbarian warrior, in XCOM a heavy with a LOT of rockets and grenades.

    Julienne Norrel - White, in story a paladin with a ditzy streak, in XCOM a heavy with Holo Targeting, Suppression and Danger Zone.

    Yumi Agoshi - Red, in story a catgirl in a strange land, in XCOM an Assault who's entirely set up for Offense... except for Rapid Fire, I took Flush and regretted it almost immediately. She still does *absurd* damage on the one shot she gets though.

    Remn Tersing - Black, in story a human rogue and assassin bent on revenge, in XCOM an assault set up for maximum defensive capability.

    Ame Inoue - Green, in story Yumi's childhood friend and ally, in XCom a sniper who's my most deadly character by far, usually killing the bulk of the enemies while everyone else ties them up.

    Mei Berry - White, in story a magician who manipulates liquid metal as her primary form of magic, in XCOM a support who's set up primarily as a medic, but has Suppression as I find it more useful than Revive. (Better to not get knocked out to begin with than recover from it.)

    My non-A-team characters wear olive drab and helmets, they're my generic mooks basically.

    Crazy enough my A-team got *3 psychics*. (Sadly the magician was not one of them.)

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Support: Orange. But I'm starting to wonder why to bother with them
    Two reasons: medkits, and they can use the free weapons you collect from the enemies. When cash-strapped, it is nice to have a support with a plasma rifle taken from the cold, dead hands of a muton. The increased movement range also makes them quite nice.

    But yes, I agree that other than the medkit, they are the weakest of all classes.

    ----

    @Surrealistik: can you please explain how you use the Battlescanner? If, like you imply, you keep squadsights at the back of the map (which is what I do too), how is a scanner useful? I always have squad members further ahead than it can be thrown.

    Disabling shot has saved my bacon more times than I can count, and I've yet to be in a situation where I thought a scanner was needed. Worse comes to worst, move forwards, headshot, run & gun backwards, overwatch is all I ever seem to need.

    But on the other hand, you have finished II, so I trust your words more than I trust my own in this matter. I just can't figure it out.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I color my soldiers the same color as the ponies I name them after. >_>

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Two reasons: medkits, and they can use the free weapons you collect from the enemies. When cash-strapped, it is nice to have a support with a plasma rifle taken from the cold, dead hands of a muton. The increased movement range also makes them quite nice.

    But yes, I agree that other than the medkit, they are the weakest of all classes.
    Has anyone tried making the 100% overwatch-focused support? If you get them to colonel, they get two shots and can fire both at enemies who move or shoot. That would mean that a support on overwatch is guaranteed to shoot at any enemy that comes in range, and may shoot them twice if they move up and shoot. Take double smoke grenades to boost defense, and carry a scope and maybe combat stims or a chrysalid carapace. I've never tried it, but it might be interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    @Surrealistik: can you please explain how you use the Battlescanner? If, like you imply, you keep squadsights at the back of the map (which is what I do too), how is a scanner useful? I always have squad members further ahead than it can be thrown.
    While I don't love it as much as Surrealistik, it did serve me well throughout classic ironman, and I'm in the midst of impossible regular right now so I'm gonna take a stab here.

    First, I would generally move my sniper up to a good squadsight position on the first turn and thrown a scanner at max range. This quite often finds a pack, and I'd says pretty much always finds one on impossible. Especially in abduction missions, but even in UFOs, it often spots the first outdoor group. You can then set up to snipe them and either overwatch if they scatter backwards or move other guys up to grenade if they scatter forwards.

    Second, after you've cleared out a full section of a UFO, abduction, or terror mission, you can often move up your sniper to join the rest of the squad and then use the second battle scanner to safely spot the last group of aliens. This is less useful for ethereals, which hang out in pre-set tiny rooms, but it's amazing for getting a good setup on a sectopod or cyberdisc.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Support: Orange. But I'm starting to wonder why to bother with them
    Mobility. In Ghost Armor, nobody can outrun these guys. They are perfect to act as scout or relief for squadmates down or likely to be the subject of heavy fires.

    1 Assault, 1 Sniper, 2 Heavies and 2 Support, that's how I like mah team.

    Give them the Arc Thrower and they can probably get into melee range much more easily than anybody else. With 2-items, you can even have them keep their medpack.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I color my soldiers the same color as the ponies I name them after. >_>



    Has anyone tried making the 100% overwatch-focused support? If you get them to colonel, they get two shots and can fire both at enemies who move or shoot. That would mean that a support on overwatch is guaranteed to shoot at any enemy that comes in range, and may shoot them twice if they move up and shoot. Take double smoke grenades to boost defense, and carry a scope and maybe combat stims or a chrysalid carapace. I've never tried it, but it might be interesting.
    cyberdisc.
    I've been trying to get one going, actually. The problem is that my medics keep getting murdered, and I need to use the remaining supports to fill in.

  8. - Top - End - #1208
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Beyond what Anarion has said, scanners are awesome because of the sheer risk reduction their use represents:

    You don't have to use troopers to scout dangerous areas, or spot for your Snipers. Drop the scanner, fall back, enter overwatch/hunker, and enjoy your largely free kills. With 2 Battlescanner Snipers on your team, you can clear out the majority of most maps in this risk minimized manner.


    Meanwhile, barring captures, I've never seen an alien I'd rather disable than outright kill. Even the tougher Sectopods and Discs are easily dealt with via Heavies, Bulletstorm, Rockets and HEAT.


    And Support is great for healing + Dense Smoke + Suppression/Overwatch. I always try to have one (and just one).

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I don't really do colour-coding. All troops to reach Captain get a custom paint-job. Before that, everyone goes in rookie-khaki.


    1 Assault, 1 Sniper, 2 Heavies and 2 Support, that's how I like mah team.

    Give them the Arc Thrower and they can probably get into melee range much more easily than anybody else. With 2-items, you can even have them keep their medpack.
    1 Assault, 1 Support 2x Heavies and 2x Snipers is how I run. Assault and Support are the scouts, Heavies walk a little further behind, Snipers sit on a hilltop half a mile away.

    Agree that Supports are pretty awesome capture units, doubly so after Deep Pockets.

    While I don't love it as much as Surrealistik, it did serve me well throughout classic ironman, and I'm in the midst of impossible regular right now so I'm gonna take a stab here.
    That's how I use them too.

    Disabling shot has saved my bacon more times than I can count, and I've yet to be in a situation where I thought a scanner was needed. Worse comes to worst, move forwards, headshot, run & gun backwards, overwatch is all I ever seem to need.
    We must have very different tactics. In my last playthrough I used Disabling shot maybe three times total. All in attempts to capture an alien. Since it can't be used with a pistol and has an accuracy penalty, I find that any time I can Disable I'm better off going with a regular shot and killing the alien.
    Truth resists simplicity.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Btw, what are your color codes? I keep mine simple (no real garish ones):
    Support: White
    Sniper: Black
    Everyone else: Kakhi (You can easily tell them apart because of the weapons (heavies have rocket launchers on their backs, assaults have shotgun, rookies have assault rifles).
    In my first playthrough it was
    Assault: Black
    Support: White
    Heavy: Red
    Sniper: Purple
    Rookie: Tan

    My second one is a theme run based on Advenure Time, so Finn is blue, Jake is yellow etc.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Btw, what are your color codes? I keep mine simple (no real garish ones):
    Support: White
    Sniper: Black
    Everyone else: Kakhi (You can easily tell them apart because of the weapons (heavies have rocket launchers on their backs, assaults have shotgun, rookies have assault rifles).
    I don't use just one color per class, but I do use similar colors. Such as All Black, Black & White, and Black & Yellow for Snipers. It makes the characters a little more unique looking, and I like that.

    Snipers: Black or Black + other color
    Support: light colors (White or Yellow or Orange)
    Heavy: mid-dark colors (mostly Blues and Greens)
    Assault: bright or garish colors (mostly Reds and Purples, Red + Yellow is one of my favorites)

    And of course, Rookies stay in the default color until they level up.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2012-11-01 at 01:00 PM.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Rookies should be the only ones forcedallowed to wear red.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by YakYak View Post
    Rookies should be the only ones forcedallowed to wear red.
    But red ones go faster! Perfect for Assaults!
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Yeah, they go faster, right to their graves. Go with blue if you want fast.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by YakYak View Post
    Yeah, they go faster, right to their graves. Go with blue if you want fast.
    But it's the red ones that go fasta, not the blue ones.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Red ones are too slow.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Mobility. In Ghost Armor, nobody can outrun these guys. They are perfect to act as scout or relief for squadmates down or likely to be the subject of heavy fires.
    Assaults can sprint and shoot (Run n Gun), which gives them FAR more useful mobility.

    Give them the Arc Thrower and they can probably get into melee range much more easily than anybody else. With 2-items, you can even have them keep their medpack.
    Give your Arc Throwers to your Assaults, they're more likely to get up close and personal with the aliens, and more likely to survive the process.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Assaults can sprint and shoot (Run n Gun), which gives them FAR more useful mobility.



    Give your Arc Throwers to your Assaults, they're more likely to get up close and personal with the aliens, and more likely to survive the process.
    Run and Gun only works once every few turns, a non-dashing Support can still back away, it doesn't work with the Arc Thrower...

    I'd rather go with two Assaults than Supports, but seriously. Supports are better scouts and stunners.
    Last edited by Jade Dragon; 2012-11-01 at 02:38 PM.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Run and Gun only works once every few turns, a non-dashing Support can still back away, it doesn't work with the Arc Thrower...

    I'd rather go with two Assaults than Supports, but seriously. Supports are better scouts and stunners.
    By the way, does that extra mobility on support apply to both movement actions? With the support gaining six extra move total?

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    I'd rather go with two Assaults than Supports, but seriously. Supports are better scouts and stunners.
    Can you confirm that with double pockets, you can carry both medkits and a stunner? When I have tried (usually by giving them grenades), the second object is unusable - the extra space can only carry items that give a bonus (scope, extra armor), not usable objects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    By the way, does that extra mobility on support apply to both movement actions? With the support gaining six extra move total?
    Yes. You can tell because even if you only move once, the orange "max distance" is a regular move. The next turn, the orange becomes blue.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Can you confirm that with double pockets, you can carry both medkits and a stunner? When I have tried (usually by giving them grenades), the second object is unusable - the extra space can only carry items that give a bonus (scope, extra armor), not usable objects.

    Grey Wolf
    I've used this exact setup, med kit in slot 1, arc thrower in slot 2. It worked perfectly and I had both commands. I play on the PC, and I know Zevox and you have both had the same problem, so I'm thinking it might be a console only issue.
    Last edited by Anarion; 2012-11-01 at 03:31 PM.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post


    Yes. You can tell because even if you only move once, the orange "max distance" is a regular move. The next turn, the orange becomes blue.

    Grey Wolf
    Right, thanks. I currently don't have access to my good computer, so I couldn't check myself. In that case, you could make the case that support are better scouts than assault with ghost armor, as they'll always be able to move farther.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I've used this exact setup, med kit in slot 1, arc thrower in slot 2. It worked perfectly and I had both commands. I play on the PC, and I know Zevox and you have both had the same problem, so I'm thinking it might be a console only issue.
    I've done the same, also on PC. Never had any issue with it. Medkit in slot 1, arc thrower in slot 2, both usable in tactical battle.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I don't color-code my troops either. I color them after the characters I name them after.

    Don't know why I'd color-code them even if I weren't doing that, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I've used this exact setup, med kit in slot 1, arc thrower in slot 2. It worked perfectly and I had both commands. I play on the PC, and I know Zevox and you have both had the same problem, so I'm thinking it might be a console only issue.
    Sounds like it, yeah. Hopefully it's one they'll fix, as it's quite annoying.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Well, worst comes to worst, you can still carry an Arc Thrower and Chitin Plating if you want to capture and don't mind giving up a heal (although in this case I would go with two Supports, and the other would have to have the triple-use medikit upgrade).

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Run and Gun only works once every few turns, a non-dashing Support can still back away, it doesn't work with the Arc Thrower...
    Yea, but you aren't going to be stunning an Alien on turn 1 in the first place. Assault moves up ahead of the pack as spotter. With Lightning Reflexes, he's relatively safe from Overwatching aliens, so he's the perfect guy to do it. First turn, he sprints and Overwatches using Run n Gun. Then again on turn 3, he sprints then he either has the option to Overwatch, or if he's triggered something, take a pot-shot.

    At this point, he's well in front of the rest of the squad, even ahead of Supports with Dash. So yes, if anyone is in position to move and stun, it's the Assault.

    Assaults always do break-ins. They're the most likely to survive getting point-blank with unknown hostiles. With their ability to have additional armor points from armor, Lightning Reflexes, the ability to reaction-fire at anything that gets 4 or closer... yea, these guys are close-quarter specialists.

    Supports... aren't.
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  27. - Top - End - #1227
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Yea, but you aren't going to be stunning an Alien on turn 1 in the first place. Assault moves up ahead of the pack as spotter. With Lightning Reflexes, he's relatively safe from Overwatching aliens, so he's the perfect guy to do it. First turn, he sprints and Overwatches using Run n Gun. Then again on turn 3, he sprints then he either has the option to Overwatch, or if he's triggered something, take a pot-shot.

    At this point, he's well in front of the rest of the squad, even ahead of Supports with Dash. So yes, if anyone is in position to move and stun, it's the Assault.

    Assaults always do break-ins. They're the most likely to survive getting point-blank with unknown hostiles. With their ability to have additional armor points from armor, Lightning Reflexes, the ability to reaction-fire at anything that gets 4 or closer... yea, these guys are close-quarter specialists.

    Supports... aren't.
    Supports are the second ones into a room. When combining Sprinter with Skeleton/Ghost Suit, their speed is unparalleled. Yes, the Assault has a better shot if he goes in first. But he's not going to down two or three aliens in one turn. That easily leaves something for the rest of the team.

    Plus, if there's a door, you generally want every member of your team to be taking up the closest good cover before opening it, so sending your Assault to kick down the door while the rest of the team is still in their positions from the last fight generally doesn't happen. Put the Heavy and Support at either side of the door, and the Support can easily run up and stun any alien you see when that door opens. Heavy has the worst movement + range, so he's gotta stay close to the action. The Assault shouldn't be far back, though, he should be right next to the Heavy or Support, being left behind by only a square.

    Assaults are good scouts. Supports are good strikers once the scout has confirmed enemy position.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Assaults can sprint and shoot (Run n Gun), which gives them FAR more useful mobility.
    Except that, as noted, it's only usable once every 2 turns. And it just makes you able to shoot quicker. If you want to have somebody move quickly from one location to the other because someone is in deep problem, nobody beats the Support.

    That's the idea, he's not your point man. He's not your heavy punch. He's not your lookout. He's the support. He'll save a buddy's ass through medkit or smoke grenade, reach him even if he'll croak in 2 turns, and can get upclose with aliens better than anybody.

    And he won't accidentally shoot an alien you want to capture because it triggers the reaction shot ability.

  29. - Top - End - #1229
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Alright, I'm watching episode 29 of Deatheven13's Normal Ironman playthrough. And Sniper with Archangel Armor and Squadsight on an outdoor map is awesome.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Supports are the second ones into a room. When combining Sprinter with Skeleton/Ghost Suit, their speed is unparalleled. Yes, the Assault has a better shot if he goes in first. But he's not going to down two or three aliens in one turn. That easily leaves something for the rest of the team.
    No, he is not the second one into that room. NO ONE goes into that room with 2-3 alive and grinning at you. Your assault, Lt Sir "Brave" Robin, pokes his head into the room and runs away using run and gun to get back to advantageous cover, where he either isn't seen and pops over watch or has los on no more than 1 at a time and takes his shot. If he cant fall back far enough to get good cover you messed up, but besides that, your scout, who should be able to move somewhere safe, throws smoke and licks wounds in the aftermath.

    Supports don't scout. Supports don't gung-ho. Supports support scouts and gung-hos.

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