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  1. - Top - End - #1261
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by nooblade View Post
    Yannow, I expected this game to be something I'd really enjoy playing. But no, I would rather watch more of his videos. I guess I think positioning the guys good over several turns is pretty boring.
    On the lower difficulties, or not on ironman, you can play balls out and run head long into fire. It is amazing how many different "correct" ways you can maneuver through some of these maps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion
    If I could make a change to the new X-com, it would be to allow shooting even if there's not a target. There have been a lot of times I wanted to simply blow out a UFO wall with plasma weaponry and it sucks that you can't do it unless you have spare rockets and grenades.

    Eh, it would take a drastic rebalance of the game to make that work. Ammo in the old game cost you something, money strategically and inventory/weight tactically. If ammo was finite in the mission, cost something to replace, and cover values and destructibility were reworked then I could see getting behind something like that. But its a massive undertaking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
    By the time I get in with a Support for a capture, half the team still has their actions left and can easily move in and soften up or destroy any new spawns. Because what Anarion said is right, you always have your entire team prepped and ready before opening a door.
    Eh? You said supports are your strikers, that you send them into rooms full of bads after your assaults kick in the door. I said no, no one goes inside because play is more cautious than that on higher difficulty. You supposed I dont stun or shot gun. I do. Now were back to sending in the team into the room? Again, no. Don't. Since you opened the door to look in with an action you fall back and overwatch the door. If possible, move your explosives/heavy to blow another hole in the wall and/or their cover to flank or expose them. Do not engage on their terms. If/when only one is left and wounded, suppressed, disabled, guaranteed dead by end of turn or otherwise nullified do you stun.

    Frankly, I give supports mobility enhancing armor, med kits, and when they get deep pockets either chitin plating or mind shields.
    Last edited by Impnemo; 2012-11-03 at 03:08 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #1262
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Impnemo View Post
    Eh? You said supports are your strikers, that you send them into rooms full of bads after your assaults kick in the door. I said no, no one goes inside because play is more cautious than that on higher difficulty. You supposed I dont stun or shot gun. I do. Now were back to sending in the team into the room? Again, no. Don't. Since you opened the door to look in with an action you fall back and overwatch the door. If possible, move your explosives/heavy to blow another hole in the wall and/or their cover to flank or expose them. Do not engage on their terms. If/when only one is left and wounded, suppressed, disabled, guaranteed dead by end of turn or otherwise nullified do you stun.

    Frankly, I give supports mobility enhancing armor, med kits, and when they get deep pockets either chitin plating or mind shields.
    Huh? Opening a door doesn't take an action. If it's a big UFO and you don't know what else could be there, you fall back because you never want to trigger extra spawns. But if it's a small room or a partially cleared UFO, one of the best strategies is to open that door and start sending people in to take point blank shots. Let's say you pop a door and find a group of thin men, or later on you're doing a sectoid commander room. If my squad is all there, they're one and all running into the room and killing everything (or attempting a stun and killing if that fails).

    Fall back and overwatch is for when your forward guy is out of position or you can't get safe shots on enemies. UFOs don't have that problem because the rooms are small enough that an entire team of 6 can get into melee range in most new rooms.
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  3. - Top - End - #1263
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    No no no, well yes, but no! I mean disable bomb/open door as an action as opposed to opening the door via movement. And yes this but then that and sometimes also other things too, but the point remains. Under this scenario you are not taking a risk, its assumed a guaranteed win full of point blank and flanking shots without the possibility of spawning additional enemies. You're still playing cautiously, which is what I've been trying to say. The hypotheticals Jade used to advance the the idea of Supports as point men and 'strikers' don't pan out as the difficulty ramps up. They act well within their niche, and that is supporting scouts and blasters, not being one.

  4. - Top - End - #1264
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Impnemo View Post
    No no no, well yes, but no! I mean disable bomb/open door as an action as opposed to opening the door via movement. And yes this but then that and sometimes also other things too, but the point remains. Under this scenario you are not taking a risk, its assumed a guaranteed win full of point blank and flanking shots without the possibility of spawning additional enemies. You're still playing cautiously, which is what I've been trying to say. The hypotheticals Jade used to advance the the idea of Supports as point men and 'strikers' don't pan out as the difficulty ramps up. They act well within their niche, and that is supporting scouts and blasters, not being one.
    Eh? My Assault and Heavy are on either side of the door, and they do take the free action to open it up and look inside rather than just charge in.

    Support might be my last guy, though, so that I can just take out any non-captures and soften up the to-capture one for stun. However, it could also be a good idea not to do that, since sending him in might trigger a new spawn and now you need the team to take those guys out too.
    Last edited by Jade Dragon; 2012-11-03 at 08:58 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #1265
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    ARGH!
    So far I have had a challenging but fun time on Classic. So far I have lost USA and India, but the combat missions have been fun and relatively easy.

    All of a sudden I hit a brick wall. It's a terror mission composed entirely with Cryssalids and cyber discs, and a big three-story building.

    So far the only tactic I have found that lets me survive longer than a few rounds is to NOT go for cover (because you start where there only are a few cars, nothing else, and if I go forward just an inch i trigger 3 groups of enemies) is to just stand in the open and fire rockets blindly into the building.

    What happens if no civilians survive? I fear that the only thing I can do, with this map, is to hide behind the already burned out truck with all six sqad members and let everyone die. It's the only way to not get a complete squad wipe.

    Any tips?
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  6. - Top - End - #1266
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I've never lost every civilian, but you'd be surprised how long the final few last, so I wouldn't worry too much there. Your bigger concern is getting hit with 10+ chrysalids if you sit and do nothing.

    What you'd like to do ideally is move out just one guy, trigger a spawn and take them out right away. You appear to have multiple saves, so even though your gear is probably not good enough relative to this mission, you can be careful and try to set up your rockets in the best possible position. If you do take out a group or two, it's probably worth advancing aggressively instead of waiting while the chrysalids make 5+ extra reinforcements.
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  7. - Top - End - #1267
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    What happens if no civilians survive? I fear that the only thing I can do, with this map, is to hide behind the already burned out truck with all six sqad members and let everyone die. It's the only way to not get a complete squad wipe.

    Any tips?
    Dont know what happens if the civies all die, save scum that one - for SCIENCE!

    For tips Id need to have more info on squad makeup, gear, rank etc. As it stands Id say dont advance into the map, fall back to the border of the map and try to go around to a better position. Dont go for cover, just evade them while poking around to a better position. Scanner can help if you have it yet.

  8. - Top - End - #1268
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    the thing about fighting 'lids is that they don't function according to the same rules. Usually, you're thinking about things like cover, against 'Lids, cover dosn't matter. You need to be thinking about lines of movement.

    On the other hand,Cryssalids also don't bother to take cover, so it's easier than usual to lure them into an overwatch trap.

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  9. - Top - End - #1269
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    the thing about fighting 'lids is that they don't function according to the same rules. Usually, you're thinking about things like cover, against 'Lids, cover dosn't matter. You need to be thinking about lines of movement.

    On the other hand,Cryssalids also don't bother to take cover, so it's easier than usual to lure them into an overwatch trap.
    Yea, assaults with shotguns and the bonus reaction shot to anything getting within 4 of them really do a number on 'lids. Also, you generally have wide fields of fire in Terror missions, so Snipers with Squad-Sight and Opportunist are hellishly effective.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    So, I've discovered the answer to getting stuck with only squaddies near the endgame: Babysit them with 2 fully upgraded hover SHIVS. Unfortunately, I have not yet discovered the answer to storming a battleship, next time I run across one I might just send in 6 shivs and hope for the best, I'm sick of losing colonels to battleships.
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  11. - Top - End - #1271
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Well... Rank / Equipment:

    2 heavies, one kernel, one major, heavy lasers. both with grenades. carapace armor.

    2 snipers, one captain, one major, laser sniper rifles, carapace armor, SCOPEs

    1 support, Leutennant, laser rifle, carapace armor. Medpack

    1 assault, captain, laser shotgun, carapace armor, grenade.

    Now... Should I reload the save from two days prior and hope for a different mission (I don't think will happen; the game seems to randomize these things at the start and not as it goes along) or savescum the mission...
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  12. - Top - End - #1272
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Has anyone else noticed that the Mind Shield gives a flat boost to Will, not just a defensive one? With Psi Armor, Mind Shield, and Inspiration, I was getting 70% odds to mind control Ethereals. With troops that hadn't benefitted from Will to Live.

  13. - Top - End - #1273
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Well I reloaded the game from two days prior. Turns out the PLACE and TYPE of mission is set, but not the MAP.

    This time I got a really REALLY simple map: The Burning Tanks funnel of death. TONS of cover at the start, plus it helped that the game decided this time to only bring one cyberdisk and instead ad a number of floaters; one of my favorite enemies. Anyway, this time I save two civilians, lost none of my soldiers (actually none of them even got close to be touched at all!) and Overwatch saved the day.
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  14. - Top - End - #1274
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Those poor citizens.

    Did you get any panic reduction for two saved?

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Well... Rank / Equipment:

    2 heavies, one kernel, one major, heavy lasers. both with grenades. carapace armor.

    2 snipers, one captain, one major, laser sniper rifles, carapace armor, SCOPEs

    1 support, Leutennant, laser rifle, carapace armor. Medpack

    1 assault, captain, laser shotgun, carapace armor, grenade.

    Now... Should I reload the save from two days prior and hope for a different mission (I don't think will happen; the game seems to randomize these things at the start and not as it goes along) or savescum the mission...
    That's actually pretty good gear. Any two guys on your team can kill a chrysalid, and with crits and rapid fire the assault and the snipers can 1-shot them.

    I see no reason why that team can't advance immediately, trigger a pack of 3 chrysalids, and blow them to kingdom come.

    Edit: forgot I'd opened this earlier and didn't preview post for update. Congratulations on getting an easier map. In future, you should have no trouble with chrysalids at all now that your whole team has better armor and laser weapons. They'll only get easier to crush.
    Last edited by Anarion; 2012-11-05 at 12:22 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #1276
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Those poor citizens.

    Did you get any panic reduction for two saved?
    Yes. And enough good ratings to still get an A on the next council report

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    That's actually pretty good gear. Any two guys on your team can kill a chrysalid, and with crits and rapid fire the assault and the snipers can 1-shot them.

    I see no reason why that team can't advance immediately, trigger a pack of 3 chrysalids, and blow them to kingdom come.

    Edit: forgot I'd opened this earlier and didn't preview post for update. Congratulations on getting an easier map. In future, you should have no trouble with chrysalids at all now that your whole team has better armor and laser weapons. They'll only get easier to crush.
    The problem was the map: I always have a tough time with building assaults, and this one was the worst yet (because of THREE stories, including a lot of balconies etc) combined with a large open area with no good shelter between me and the house. It forced at least two troops to DASH for cover, and any good position automatically triggered two cyberdisks in combination with at least three chrysalids. It was a nightmare.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-05 at 12:30 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #1277
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Hmm...come to think of it, it may say something about my strategy that rockets kill a good chunk of my civilians.

  18. - Top - End - #1278
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    ...God I love fighting mutons... Just enough resistance that one of them MIGHT get to fire it's gun... and if you think about where you position your troops they die so easily
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-05 at 02:34 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #1279
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    The problem was the map: I always have a tough time with building assaults, and this one was the worst yet (because of THREE stories, including a lot of balconies etc) combined with a large open area with no good shelter between me and the house. It forced at least two troops to DASH for cover, and any good position automatically triggered two cyberdisks in combination with at least three chrysalids. It was a nightmare.
    If you were on the map I think you were, there was a fairly large truck to the northeast of the starting area. That generally provides good cover and assaults with run and gun can advance to the building pillars and shoot from there.

    I think it's quite rare to ever have to deal with multiple floors of the buildings. Usually, even with multistory setups, you move up and trigger spawns and then back up again as they come down to you.

    Also, if by dashing to cover you meant moving forward using a second move, that's basically the number 1 way to get troops killed. Blue moves are for going forward, yellow moves are for going backward if you don't want to be in something's line of fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    ...God I love fighting mutons... Just enough resistance that one of them MIGHT get to fire it's gun... and if you think about where you position your troops they die so easily
    They do make a very satisfying thump when they go down. I hate how on impossible their intimidate ability actually works on your guys all the time though.
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  20. - Top - End - #1280
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    If you were on the map I think you were, there was a fairly large truck to the northeast of the starting area. That generally provides good cover and assaults with run and gun can advance to the building pillars and shoot from there.

    I think it's quite rare to ever have to deal with multiple floors of the buildings. Usually, even with multistory setups, you move up and trigger spawns and then back up again as they come down to you.

    Also, if by dashing to cover you meant moving forward using a second move, that's basically the number 1 way to get troops killed. Blue moves are for going forward, yellow moves are for going backward if you don't want to be in something's line of fire.

    ---
    (About Mutons)

    They do make a very satisfying thump when they go down. I hate how on impossible their intimidate ability actually works on your guys all the time though.
    That's the one alright. The problem was that I triggered chrysalids by getting to the far corner of that truck, as well, and one or two turns later a cyberdisk shows up. And the way you start that map, you have to dash all your troops to GET behind the truck...

    That said, assaulting buildings is what I am worst at.

    As for the mutons... I have, so far, never had a single soldier intimidated. I don't know if it's a bug, or if they try it too far from my sqad or...? Not even in the last fight I did this morning (cemetary map) where they start quite close to you. They did the "intimidate" thing, but nothing happened.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    The odds of Intimidate working is based upon the Will of your troopers, so maybe your guys are just resilient enough by the time Mutons show up? Or, you could just be getting lucky with the RNG.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Hmm...come to think of it, it may say something about my strategy that rockets kill a good chunk of my civilians.
    That it's the best strategy?
    Last edited by The Mad Fool; 2012-11-05 at 08:21 AM.

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Fool View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that the Mind Shield gives a flat boost to Will, not just a defensive one? With Psi Armor, Mind Shield, and Inspiration, I was getting 70% odds to mind control Ethereals. With troops that hadn't benefitted from Will to Live.
    Yep. Mind Shield + Psi Armor + Psi Inspiration a round before = 80+% chance to MC an Ethereal. Great way to get the achievement, and I always put a mind shield on my psy character for that reason.
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Fool View Post
    That it's the best strategy?
    They should be grateful to not be zombiefied!
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    That's the one alright. The problem was that I triggered chrysalids by getting to the far corner of that truck, as well, and one or two turns later a cyberdisk shows up. And the way you start that map, you have to dash all your troops to GET behind the truck...

    That said, assaulting buildings is what I am worst at.

    As for the mutons... I have, so far, never had a single soldier intimidated. I don't know if it's a bug, or if they try it too far from my sqad or...? Not even in the last fight I did this morning (cemetary map) where they start quite close to you. They did the "intimidate" thing, but nothing happened.
    Since I know exactly what map you're on, here's my general strategy for it.
    1. First turn, blue moves up to the midst of the cars. Don't worry about cover, don't trigger aliens unless they're so close as to be within blue move range. Often triggers a chrysalid pack near the north, spend a turn shooting at them.
    2. Kill any aliens in sight, possibly advance one soldier to a building pillar if within a blue move. Advance another soldier to the lower corner of the truck. This almost always triggers one or more spawns. Kill as many aliens as possible, forward guy takes his second action last as success on other shots will vary whether forward guy wants to stay and shoot, advance and shoot (forward guy is always an assault), or back off out of chrysalid melee range.
    3-5. Usually extra spawns come on their own. You don't need to clear the building as chrysalids will often jump down from the upper floors to come to you, and the cyberdisc patrols on its own. Later versions of this mission stick a sectopod inside the building, which sometimes requires that you blitz it with ghost armor.
    6-10. Clean up zombies and remaining chrysalids.

    I usually lose 8-10 civilians on this map because there's often one to two enemies that stay around the back side of the building shooting civvies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Binks View Post
    Yep. Mind Shield + Psi Armor + Psi Inspiration a round before = 80+% chance to MC an Ethereal. Great way to get the achievement, and I always put a mind shield on my psy character for that reason.
    I'll have to try this, I always assumed the visible bonus will was only for defense like it said. Sneaky designers. That also makes supports probably the best class for psionics, since they can carry both a mind shield and a med kit (no poison, can heal) and they get bonus move to best set up their abilities.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

  25. - Top - End - #1285
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Fool View Post
    With troops that hadn't benefitted from Will to Live.
    You mean Iron Will, right?

  26. - Top - End - #1286
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    I just ignored a small UFO and immediately a Battleship showed up!


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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Gahhh had a Code Black last night

    Ironman Classic, train station level, bomb defusing mission. It wasn't even going well to start, especially because I completely misjudged where the bomb would be, and when I tried to get to the other side I wound up attending a party with a Thin Man and his two friends, Critical Hits and poison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    You mean Iron Will, right?
    Yeah, Iron Will, sorry. Even without Iron Will, a Colonel has around 75 Will. Mind Shield adds 30 Will, Psi Armor adds 20, getting you to 125. Inspiration gives you another 30, leaving you with 155 Will. Ethereals on Classic have only 145 Will, Ethereals on Impossible have 155. So on Impossible, you can grab Iron Will and train up a psi trooper and said trooper will have, let's say 95 Will, leaving you with 175, easily surpassing the Uber-Ethereal's 160.

    Uber Ethereal: Hahaha! Now witness the power of the strongest Ether-
    Volunteer: MIND CONTROL!
    Other Ethereals: ...well aren't we boned.

  28. - Top - End - #1288
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Fool View Post

    Yeah, Iron Will, sorry. Even without Iron Will, a Colonel has around 75 Will. Mind Shield adds 30 Will, Psi Armor adds 20, getting you to 125. Inspiration gives you another 30, leaving you with 155 Will. Ethereals on Classic have only 145 Will, Ethereals on Impossible have 155. So on Impossible, you can grab Iron Will and train up a psi trooper and said trooper will have, let's say 95 Will, leaving you with 175, easily surpassing the Uber-Ethereal's 160.

    Uber Ethereal: Hahaha! Now witness the power of the strongest Ether-
    Volunteer: MIND CONTROL!
    Other Ethereals: ...well aren't we boned.
    You can't mind control the Uber Ethereal, sadly. Believe me, I tried. It's not targetable with the ability. The rest works fine, though.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Anarion Mori?
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    You just highlandered an entire city block into a glass-filled storm by road-runnering down it in your underwear.

  29. - Top - End - #1289
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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Fool View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that the Mind Shield gives a flat boost to Will, not just a defensive one? With Psi Armor, Mind Shield, and Inspiration, I was getting 70% odds to mind control Ethereals. With troops that hadn't benefitted from Will to Live.
    Oh that's awesome, I gotta try that!

    Currently on my Classic playthrough, my only psion is a sniper, and I'm getting ready to build the gollop chamber. Gotta train more troops x_x
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  30. - Top - End - #1290
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    You can't mind control the Uber Ethereal, sadly. Believe me, I tried. It's not targetable with the ability. The rest works fine, though.
    Awww, nuts. I didn't realize that. I knew I could Mindfray him (though I missed, despite a 98% chance *grumble grumble*) but I never tried MC on him. Ah, well. Shooting him in the face with two sniper rounds and a shotgun worked just as well.

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