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2012-11-03, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
On the lower difficulties, or not on ironman, you can play balls out and run head long into fire. It is amazing how many different "correct" ways you can maneuver through some of these maps.
Originally Posted by Anarion
Eh, it would take a drastic rebalance of the game to make that work. Ammo in the old game cost you something, money strategically and inventory/weight tactically. If ammo was finite in the mission, cost something to replace, and cover values and destructibility were reworked then I could see getting behind something like that. But its a massive undertaking.
Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
Frankly, I give supports mobility enhancing armor, med kits, and when they get deep pockets either chitin plating or mind shields.Last edited by Impnemo; 2012-11-03 at 03:08 PM.
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2012-11-03, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- San Francisco
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Huh? Opening a door doesn't take an action. If it's a big UFO and you don't know what else could be there, you fall back because you never want to trigger extra spawns. But if it's a small room or a partially cleared UFO, one of the best strategies is to open that door and start sending people in to take point blank shots. Let's say you pop a door and find a group of thin men, or later on you're doing a sectoid commander room. If my squad is all there, they're one and all running into the room and killing everything (or attempting a stun and killing if that fails).
Fall back and overwatch is for when your forward guy is out of position or you can't get safe shots on enemies. UFOs don't have that problem because the rooms are small enough that an entire team of 6 can get into melee range in most new rooms.
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2012-11-03, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
No no no, well yes, but no! I mean disable bomb/open door as an action as opposed to opening the door via movement. And yes this but then that and sometimes also other things too, but the point remains. Under this scenario you are not taking a risk, its assumed a guaranteed win full of point blank and flanking shots without the possibility of spawning additional enemies. You're still playing cautiously, which is what I've been trying to say. The hypotheticals Jade used to advance the the idea of Supports as point men and 'strikers' don't pan out as the difficulty ramps up. They act well within their niche, and that is supporting scouts and blasters, not being one.
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2012-11-03, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Minnesota
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Eh? My Assault and Heavy are on either side of the door, and they do take the free action to open it up and look inside rather than just charge in.
Support might be my last guy, though, so that I can just take out any non-captures and soften up the to-capture one for stun. However, it could also be a good idea not to do that, since sending him in might trigger a new spawn and now you need the team to take those guys out too.Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2012-11-03 at 08:58 PM.
Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
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2012-11-04, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
ARGH!
So far I have had a challenging but fun time on Classic. So far I have lost USA and India, but the combat missions have been fun and relatively easy.
All of a sudden I hit a brick wall. It's a terror mission composed entirely with Cryssalids and cyber discs, and a big three-story building.
So far the only tactic I have found that lets me survive longer than a few rounds is to NOT go for cover (because you start where there only are a few cars, nothing else, and if I go forward just an inch i trigger 3 groups of enemies) is to just stand in the open and fire rockets blindly into the building.
What happens if no civilians survive? I fear that the only thing I can do, with this map, is to hide behind the already burned out truck with all six sqad members and let everyone die. It's the only way to not get a complete squad wipe.
Any tips?Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-04, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- San Francisco
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
I've never lost every civilian, but you'd be surprised how long the final few last, so I wouldn't worry too much there. Your bigger concern is getting hit with 10+ chrysalids if you sit and do nothing.
What you'd like to do ideally is move out just one guy, trigger a spawn and take them out right away. You appear to have multiple saves, so even though your gear is probably not good enough relative to this mission, you can be careful and try to set up your rockets in the best possible position. If you do take out a group or two, it's probably worth advancing aggressively instead of waiting while the chrysalids make 5+ extra reinforcements.
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2012-11-04, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Dont know what happens if the civies all die, save scum that one - for SCIENCE!
For tips Id need to have more info on squad makeup, gear, rank etc. As it stands Id say dont advance into the map, fall back to the border of the map and try to go around to a better position. Dont go for cover, just evade them while poking around to a better position. Scanner can help if you have it yet.
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2012-11-04, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
the thing about fighting 'lids is that they don't function according to the same rules. Usually, you're thinking about things like cover, against 'Lids, cover dosn't matter. You need to be thinking about lines of movement.
On the other hand,Cryssalids also don't bother to take cover, so it's easier than usual to lure them into an overwatch trap.
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2012-11-04, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- I wish I knew...
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
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My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2012-11-04, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Quebec, Canada
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
So, I've discovered the answer to getting stuck with only squaddies near the endgame: Babysit them with 2 fully upgraded hover SHIVS. Unfortunately, I have not yet discovered the answer to storming a battleship, next time I run across one I might just send in 6 shivs and hope for the best, I'm sick of losing colonels to battleships.
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2012-11-04, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Well... Rank / Equipment:
2 heavies, one kernel, one major, heavy lasers. both with grenades. carapace armor.
2 snipers, one captain, one major, laser sniper rifles, carapace armor, SCOPEs
1 support, Leutennant, laser rifle, carapace armor. Medpack
1 assault, captain, laser shotgun, carapace armor, grenade.
Now... Should I reload the save from two days prior and hope for a different mission (I don't think will happen; the game seems to randomize these things at the start and not as it goes along) or savescum the mission...Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-04, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Has anyone else noticed that the Mind Shield gives a flat boost to Will, not just a defensive one? With Psi Armor, Mind Shield, and Inspiration, I was getting 70% odds to mind control Ethereals. With troops that hadn't benefitted from Will to Live.
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2012-11-05, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Well I reloaded the game from two days prior. Turns out the PLACE and TYPE of mission is set, but not the MAP.
This time I got a really REALLY simple map: The Burning Tanks funnel of death. TONS of cover at the start, plus it helped that the game decided this time to only bring one cyberdisk and instead ad a number of floaters; one of my favorite enemies. Anyway, this time I save two civilians, lost none of my soldiers (actually none of them even got close to be touched at all!) and Overwatch saved the day.Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-05, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
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- United States
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Those poor citizens.
Did you get any panic reduction for two saved?
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2012-11-05, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- San Francisco
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
That's actually pretty good gear. Any two guys on your team can kill a chrysalid, and with crits and rapid fire the assault and the snipers can 1-shot them.
I see no reason why that team can't advance immediately, trigger a pack of 3 chrysalids, and blow them to kingdom come.
Edit: forgot I'd opened this earlier and didn't preview post for update. Congratulations on getting an easier map. In future, you should have no trouble with chrysalids at all now that your whole team has better armor and laser weapons. They'll only get easier to crush.
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2012-11-05, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Yes. And enough good ratings to still get an A on the next council report
The problem was the map: I always have a tough time with building assaults, and this one was the worst yet (because of THREE stories, including a lot of balconies etc) combined with a large open area with no good shelter between me and the house. It forced at least two troops to DASH for cover, and any good position automatically triggered two cyberdisks in combination with at least three chrysalids. It was a nightmare.Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-05 at 12:30 AM.
Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-05, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- United States
- Gender
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Hmm...come to think of it, it may say something about my strategy that rockets kill a good chunk of my civilians.
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2012-11-05, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
- Gender
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
...God I love fighting mutons... Just enough resistance that one of them MIGHT get to fire it's gun... and if you think about where you position your troops they die so easily
Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-11-05 at 02:34 AM.
Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-05, 05:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- San Francisco
- Gender
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
If you were on the map I think you were, there was a fairly large truck to the northeast of the starting area. That generally provides good cover and assaults with run and gun can advance to the building pillars and shoot from there.
I think it's quite rare to ever have to deal with multiple floors of the buildings. Usually, even with multistory setups, you move up and trigger spawns and then back up again as they come down to you.
Also, if by dashing to cover you meant moving forward using a second move, that's basically the number 1 way to get troops killed. Blue moves are for going forward, yellow moves are for going backward if you don't want to be in something's line of fire.
They do make a very satisfying thump when they go down. I hate how on impossible their intimidate ability actually works on your guys all the time though.
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2012-11-05, 05:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
That's the one alright. The problem was that I triggered chrysalids by getting to the far corner of that truck, as well, and one or two turns later a cyberdisk shows up. And the way you start that map, you have to dash all your troops to GET behind the truck...
That said, assaulting buildings is what I am worst at.
As for the mutons... I have, so far, never had a single soldier intimidated. I don't know if it's a bug, or if they try it too far from my sqad or...? Not even in the last fight I did this morning (cemetary map) where they start quite close to you. They did the "intimidate" thing, but nothing happened.Blizzard Battletag: UnderDog#21677
Shepard: "Wrex! Do we have mawsign?"
Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"
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2012-11-05, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Last edited by The Mad Fool; 2012-11-05 at 08:21 AM.
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2012-11-05, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Arizona
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2012-11-05, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Enköping, Sweden
- Gender
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2012-11-05, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
- Location
- San Francisco
- Gender
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Since I know exactly what map you're on, here's my general strategy for it.
1. First turn, blue moves up to the midst of the cars. Don't worry about cover, don't trigger aliens unless they're so close as to be within blue move range. Often triggers a chrysalid pack near the north, spend a turn shooting at them.
2. Kill any aliens in sight, possibly advance one soldier to a building pillar if within a blue move. Advance another soldier to the lower corner of the truck. This almost always triggers one or more spawns. Kill as many aliens as possible, forward guy takes his second action last as success on other shots will vary whether forward guy wants to stay and shoot, advance and shoot (forward guy is always an assault), or back off out of chrysalid melee range.
3-5. Usually extra spawns come on their own. You don't need to clear the building as chrysalids will often jump down from the upper floors to come to you, and the cyberdisc patrols on its own. Later versions of this mission stick a sectopod inside the building, which sometimes requires that you blitz it with ghost armor.
6-10. Clean up zombies and remaining chrysalids.
I usually lose 8-10 civilians on this map because there's often one to two enemies that stay around the back side of the building shooting civvies.
I'll have to try this, I always assumed the visible bonus will was only for defense like it said. Sneaky designers. That also makes supports probably the best class for psionics, since they can carry both a mind shield and a med kit (no poison, can heal) and they get bonus move to best set up their abilities.
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2012-11-05, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Minnesota
- Gender
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
My Steam profile
Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting
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2012-11-05, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
I just ignored a small UFO and immediately a Battleship showed up!
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2012-11-05, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
Gahhh had a Code Black last night
Ironman Classic, train station level, bomb defusing mission. It wasn't even going well to start, especially because I completely misjudged where the bomb would be, and when I tried to get to the other side I wound up attending a party with a Thin Man and his two friends, Critical Hits and poison.
Yeah, Iron Will, sorry. Even without Iron Will, a Colonel has around 75 Will. Mind Shield adds 30 Will, Psi Armor adds 20, getting you to 125. Inspiration gives you another 30, leaving you with 155 Will. Ethereals on Classic have only 145 Will, Ethereals on Impossible have 155. So on Impossible, you can grab Iron Will and train up a psi trooper and said trooper will have, let's say 95 Will, leaving you with 175, easily surpassing the Uber-Ethereal's 160.
Uber Ethereal: Hahaha! Now witness the power of the strongest Ether-
Volunteer: MIND CONTROL!
Other Ethereals: ...well aren't we boned.
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2012-11-05, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
- Location
- San Francisco
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Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
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2012-11-05, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...
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2012-11-05, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...