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2012-08-29, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237581
This comic is the only D&D comic to show not only Orcs and goblins, but also drow as living beings discriminated for being "monsters". I would put Drizzt but his character is clinched and made fun of.
The only "good" dark elves I know are
1. Drowtales (Though most of them are jerks in my opinion)
2. Morrowind (Lives in volcanic area, but still hold slaves and have racist views towards non Dark Elves but considered as greyscale in Elderscrolls Universe).Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-08-29, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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- NY, USA
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Yeah, it's kind of a problem how few good Dark Elves there are. Especially since Elves are the paragons of Mary Sue-ness and are typically white blonds.
I guess, technically, the original Norse Dökkálfar (Dark Elves) and Svartálfar (Black Elves/Dwarves) were pretty decent dudes unless you tried to pull a fast one on them. Maybe not "Good," but Lawful Neutral sounds about right.
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2012-08-30, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-08-30, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
- Location
- Ireland
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
In LotR most of the elves other than Galadriel were dark elves, including Elrond.
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2012-08-30, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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- NY, USA
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2012-08-30, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-08-30, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Location
- NY, USA
- Gender
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2012-08-30, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Ferelden
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
In the Bioware CRPG Baldur's Gate 2, Viconia the female Drow cleric starts off evil, but, away from the influence of the Underdark, ends up with a neutral alignment by the end.
Assuming that you pursue a romance with her, and get that just right. And don't mind her referring to you as 'filth' for about 80% of the game.I have a cookie now! (::) I've licked it, so no backsies.
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2012-09-16, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Does Salamanders Space Marine count as good drows? They look like drows (dark skins, red eye, and inhabits cavern cities), but they are the real paladins (space wolves are too chaotic to be paladins) and willing to protect innocent civilians from enemies, completely different from Greay Knights (looked like a spawn of Miko and Kore).
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-09-17, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
I don't think so, they're just an underground society of humans -- by WH40K reckoning at least. Same as, for instance, Morlocks.
As compared to the Dark Eldar who are the de facto Drow and were obviously made for this trope.
There is a Dark Elf society in Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari, although their colouring and capacity to generate spheres of darkness are the only reasons they'd be referred to as Dark. Otherwise they play the usual Elves role in the universe.
This is similar to the Dark Elves in The Chronicles of Siala series, by Alexey Pehov. The Dark Elves are the only Elves the protagonists meets, and while somewhat haughty and difficult to deal with, are Lawful Good. They, the Light Elves -- and the Orcs for that matter -- are virtually identical. The major difference between the Light and Dark Elves is the magic they choose to use, with Dark Elves being shamanistic and Light Elves employing human arcane magic. They're all, literally, dark-skinned and have generally dark features.
Other than that, Romulans from Star Trek. Some of whom are neutral or good. And.. Dark Templar from Starcraft.
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2012-09-19, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Night Elves from World of Warcraft. They are good Dark Elves.
Last edited by Kyberwulf; 2012-09-19 at 10:59 PM.
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2012-09-22, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
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- GI Joe Headquarters
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
How about Pirotess from Record of Lodoss War.
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2012-09-22, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
They are the ones who introduce me to Dark Elves. Though did not realize them as evil until I read OOTS.
Edit: And Murphy's Law (By Coffee Included) is the only one to portray Drows as good aligned (Most positive drows, except Drizzt, are portrayed as jerkass), swamp dwelling and portrayed as oppressed species (like Redcloak's reason).Last edited by t209; 2012-09-22 at 09:35 PM.
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-09-22, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2012-09-22, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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- Expat in Singapore
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
How about Pirotess from Record of Lodoss War.
Therefore good or evil is irrelevant.
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2012-09-22, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Across the spiraling sea.
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
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2012-09-22, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Not really. To quote Gylfaginningu:
Sá er einn stađr ţar, er kallađr er Álfheimr. Ţar byggvir fólk ţat, er Ljósálfar heita, en Dökkálfar búa niđri í jörđu, ok eru ţeir ólíkir ţeim sýnum ok miklu ólíkari reyndum. Ljósálfar eru fegri en sól sýnum, en Dökkálfar eru svartari en bik
And considering this paragraph in Gylfaginning is the only primary source we have on them I think we should go with that depiction.Last edited by pffh; 2012-09-23 at 12:17 AM.
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2012-09-23, 12:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Across the spiraling sea.
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
That quote merely says that Light Elves are really light and Dark Elves are really dark. Other than that, it doesn't specify exactly how else they look different. Also, where can I find these pictures?
The thing is, even if they look somewhat more like a troll, what makes them any different? At heart, they are still the same Dark Elves that half of modern fantasy elves are based off of (The other half being Light Elves).
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2012-09-23, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
In the sagas when someone is described as dark it usually means ugly, note that it says "the lightelves are prettier then the sun but the darkelves are as black as coal".
The quote also says that they do not look like them (understatements are common and this can be understood as they really do not at all look anything like the lightelves) and "miklu ólíkari reyndum" is basically saying that they are at least not to be trusted if not downright evil.
And right now I'm not finding any pictures since for some reason google refuses to give me icelandic results only english ones so I'll concede on that point. But how can modern fantasy elves be based on something that we do not really know anything about other then what says in that paragraph?
Same goes for the Light Elves since again they are only mentioned in that paragraph.
Aren't modern fantasy elves based in the British idea of elves? The Norse ones have always been more dickish then the fantasy elves. Especially the Hidden people.Last edited by pffh; 2012-09-23 at 12:46 AM.
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2012-09-23, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Across the spiraling sea.
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Because all modern elves are based on Tolkein's interpretation of that one paragraph. He believed it to mean that Dökkálfar and Ljósálfar looked like each other, but with skin on opposite ends of the light spectrum, so he wrote it into his novels. And every other aspiring fantasy author followed suit after that.
Thus, modern Dark Elves are the same as Dökkálfar by direct descendance of interpretation.
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2012-09-23, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Last edited by pffh; 2012-09-23 at 01:00 AM.
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2012-09-23, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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- Expat in Singapore
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2012-09-23, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Drowtales elves are slaving bastards largely ruled by factions of insane nobility. They treat non-elves like literal animals and about half of them see no problem with infecting their souls with parasite demons. It may or may not also be canon that they're also child molestors but the fact that such a thing was even written in to begin with is disturbing enough even without the subtext making it very clear the author thought that was ok.
They are in no, way, shape, or form good. They are viewpoint characters but the viewpoint has, unless the retcons have gotten even more drastic and mary-sueful since I jumped ship, always been about sociopathic stab happy idiots. The fact that they also happen to be the author's fetish doesn't change the fact.
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2012-09-23, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
If one is willing to use a space opera equivalent, there are certain factions within the Protoss of Starcraft. The protoss are long lived creatures who are
magicallypsionically powerful and that useswordsenergy blades heavily, while having a nature connected culture. In short, they are space elves. The dark templar are pretty much Drow equivalents in a lot of ways.Last edited by Knaight; 2012-09-23 at 09:52 AM.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2012-09-23, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Expat in Singapore
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
I'm surprised you mentioned Protoss instead of Eldar.
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2012-09-23, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Across the spiraling sea.
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Indeed he did. They were mentioned in the Silmarillion as Elves with dark skin, who never made the Great Journey across the sea. Fantasy authors took that idea and ran with it, leaving us with the Dark Elves we identify today.
I don't remember if he specified that they lived underground, but since the Dökkálfar did, and there's nothing keeping people from picking up the Prose Edda and reading it, it's likely that they could've taken that trait directly from the source, and the rest from Tolkein.
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2012-09-23, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2012-09-23, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
- Gender
Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
In the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, the Tiste (local elf-equivalents) somewhat turn the traditional light/dark elf dichotomy on its head. Though the series as a whole is very grey-shaded and cynical, the Tiste Andii (dark elves, basically, who strongly resemble drow down to their leader, Anomander Rake, having white hair, though not all Andii do) are generally cast as a positive, sympathetic faction, albeit one given rather more to angsty brooding than is strictly good for them. The Tiste Liosan (your traditional blond, pale High Elves) are by contrast pretty horrible and ideological extremists obsessed with purity. The Tiste Edur (associated with shadows) end up somewhere in the middle.
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2012-09-23, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Expat in Singapore
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
@ Cdr. Fallout:
I remember that part of the Simarillion. The elves who didn't go on the pilgrimage across the sea. But they're not "dark skinned." Nor were they radically different from the normal elves (the way the normal D&D elves differ from the D&D drow). They were simply the elves who didn't go. They're called "Of Darkness" because they never bathed in the light of Valinor, not because they look like photo negatives or live underground.
@ Knaight:
Why do you dislike W40K but is ok with Starcraft, if I may ask?
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2012-09-24, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Canada
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Re: Good (or at least, not evil) Drows
Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.