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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    a) No doubt Tarquin treasures his axe, but he treasures his life more--and staying to essentially face down the entire Order (minus V) on his own would be suicidal.

    b) We don't know Tarquin is a fighter. Just because he wears armour and fights with an axe doesn't make him one.

    c) How do you know he didn't bring a spare weapon of some sort?
    Tarquin has a back up weapon. I know this with great certanty because the man carries a dagger some where easy to get to in his own stadium, with hundreds of guards running around and a red dragon too, all willing and ready to help him if need be. Now he's on an adventure, knowing he's headed into a dungeon or some other place that will involve lots of combat with only 5 people to support him. He has that dagger stashed some where on his body, or prehapse something better than a dagger. Is it really that hard to believe?
    Last edited by Felixc-91; 2012-09-02 at 10:45 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    By surviving Holy Word, it's all but confirmed that he's at least Redcloak's level (17th). He could theoretically have solo'd the Order - he's done so before - but if he did, there would be a very high chance that Nale would be killed before the fight is over, as he was already in the negatives. Since Nale is Tarquin's only source of information about the Gates, Tarquin chose not to take that risk.
    its guaranteed Nale would die, only way to save nale is by sacrificing his weapon, theres no scenario to keep both so he etiher sacrifice Nale (and lose any shot at getting info on the gates) or sack his axe (and be forced to retreat)

    the Axe he can get back or get a back up the Nale he cannot

    Tarquin has a back up weapon. I know this with great certanty because the man carries a dagger some where easy to get to in his own stadium, with hundreds of guards running around and a red dragon too, all willing and ready to help him if need be. Now he's on an adventure, knowing he's headed into a dungeon or some other place that will involve lots of combat with only 5 people to support him. He has that dagger stashed some where on his body, or prehapse something better than a dagger. Is it really that hard to believe?
    a Dagger wont help him, assuming hes a fighter hell have tons of feats specifically to fight with a 2 handed axe that dont apply to a dagger, essentially unless Tarquin has another 2 handed axe hes just like when Roy lost his greatsword, severly gimped

    and assuming he does have a back up axe its possible that its not as enchanted as his current one which could have special enhancements he couldnt get on other Axes for some reason (like Roys current sword is irreplaceable due to the starmetal in it that he cant get more of)
    Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-02 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    a Dagger wont help him, assuming hes a fighter hell have tons of feats specifically to fight with a 2 handed axe that dont apply to a dagger, essentially unless Tarquin has another 2 handed axe hes just like when Roy lost his greatsword, severly gimped
    While the weapon-specific feats are good feats, there are plenty of good feats that are not weapon-specific. And given that Tarquin seems like the sort of person who wants to be ready for anything, I think it's unlikely he would build in such a way that he's crippled by not having his favored weapon. Yes, losing a nice axe is never helpful, but most of the impressive things he's done in combat to date don't involve the axe at all.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    a Dagger wont help him, assuming hes a fighter hell have tons of feats specifically to fight with a 2 handed axe that dont apply to a dagger, essentially unless Tarquin has another 2 handed axe hes just like when Roy lost his greatsword, severly gimped
    Assuming Tarquin is an 18th level fighter, he'll have, what? 18 Feats*? Given what we've seen so far, I think it's a fair assumption that Tarquin has a diverse set of Feats which give him a broad versatility vs. a narrow char-ops type optimization. Heck, even with a focus on a specific weapon there's only so many feats you can invest in it.

    *
    10 Fighter Bonus Feats
    +1 Human
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    And +6 leveling feats? Books not handy, and SRD won't give leveling information. Is it one at 3rd/6th/9th/etc?
    Last edited by Stella; 2012-09-03 at 12:27 AM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    While the weapon-specific feats are good feats, there are plenty of good feats that are not weapon-specific. And given that Tarquin seems like the sort of person who wants to be ready for anything, I think it's unlikely he would build in such a way that he's crippled by not having his favored weapon. Yes, losing a nice axe is never helpful, but most of the impressive things he's done in combat to date don't involve the axe at all.
    the only impressive combat feats weve seen from him was his fight against the Order which he had his Axe then, his fight against the chick should be ignored since shes almsot undoubtably low level, and Elan is not only lower level then tarquin but most of his levels are in a class that is not good in melee fighting and the rest of his levels were being negated by his tactic

    not having his axe may not decrease his defensive abilitys but he has no offensive ability anymore a dagger isnt going to do enough damage for Roy to actually care

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    a Dagger wont help him, assuming hes a fighter hell have tons of feats specifically to fight with a 2 handed axe that dont apply to a dagger, essentially unless Tarquin has another 2 handed axe hes just like when Roy lost his greatsword, severly gimped
    We saw him fighting quite proficiently with a dagger here (and onward), remember?

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    While the weapon-specific feats are good feats, there are plenty of good feats that are not weapon-specific. And given that Tarquin seems like the sort of person who wants to be ready for anything, I think it's unlikely he would build in such a way that he's crippled by not having his favored weapon. Yes, losing a nice axe is never helpful, but most of the impressive things he's done in combat to date don't involve the axe at all.
    Exactly. There's a fair few feats that can apply to all slashing weapons, actually, which would work for the axe + the dagger + any other slashing weapons he can stash wherever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stella View Post
    Assuming Tarquin is an 18th level fighter, he'll have, what? 18 Feats*? Given what we've seen so far, I think it's a fair assumption that Tarquin has a diverse set of Feats which give him a broad versatility vs. a narrow char-ops type optimization. Heck, even with a focus on a specific weapon there's only so many feats you can invest in it.

    *
    10 Fighter Bonus Feats
    +1 Human
    +1 Alive
    And +6 leveling feats? Books not handy, and SRD won't give leveling information. Is it one at 3rd/6th/9th/etc?
    Your feat-math is right (assuming the +1 Alive is meaning the standard one at first level). And to be fair, we don't know that he's a single-classed fighter - a lot of what he does could also be explained by one of the ToB classes, for example. Oh, and you can get a massive number of weapon-specific or weapon-type-specific feats, more than any non-epic character could fit in, if you're looking at core + Complete Warrior + PHBII.
    Last edited by Sorator; 2012-09-03 at 12:45 AM.
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    I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorator View Post
    We saw him fighting quite proficiently with a dagger here (and onward), remember?
    He's also fought with sword and shield as recently as two years ago, when he put down Nale's coup against the Empress of Blood.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    He's also fought with sword and shield as recently as two years ago, when he put down Nale's coup against the Empress of Blood.
    but that was also against an opponent of significantly weaker martial status and probably in an overly complicated ambush scenario where he didnt ahve time to get his axe

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    but that was also against an opponent of significantly weaker martial status and probably in an overly complicated ambush scenario where he didnt ahve time to get his axe
    If he was really as much weaker without his axe as you seem to think he is then he wouldn't go anywhere without it, would he? Tarquin is smart and prepared for most things, he's not going to deliberately cripple himself by either (a) not having his best weapon to hand at all times when possible or (b) speccing himself in such a way that he's only any good with one particular weapon.

    Oh, and you haven't answered Sorator's point that we've seen Tarquin hold off Elan (who is much better at martial things than Nale, what with Dashing Swordsman and all) using just a dagger...

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    I prefer it [the irrational hatred of Tarquin] over the irrational love of him.
    This.
    Ok, I don't know what's worse, honestly.
    If those who immediately scream "DEUS EX MACHINA!!!" for every. Single. Event. ...that takes place in this strip...
    ... or those who everytime search for new elaborate ways to phrase the rather simple (and sad) concept of "I like this guy because he always wins".
    Last edited by ManuelSacha; 2012-09-03 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    If he was really as much weaker without his axe as you seem to think he is then he wouldn't go anywhere without it, would he? Tarquin is smart and prepared for most things, he's not going to deliberately cripple himself by either (a) not having his best weapon to hand at all times when possible or (b) speccing himself in such a way that he's only any good with one particular weapon.

    Oh, and you haven't answered Sorator's point that we've seen Tarquin hold off Elan (who is much better at martial things than Nale, what with Dashing Swordsman and all) using just a dagger...
    i didnt realize Bards were such a melee centric class (or did you forget that Tarquin was countering Elans puns?)

    plus as i said, Tarquin becomes weaker OFFENSIVELY (his defensive ability likely doesnt change) so his strategy of being defenisve and slowly wittling away his opponents simply wont work because Durkon could easily keep Roy on his feet if hes only getting pricked by a dagger

    im not too versed in 3.5, but im pretty sure a great axe does more damage then a dagger

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelSacha View Post
    This.
    Ok, I don't know what's worse, honestly.
    If those who immediately scream "DEUS EX MACHINA!!!" for every. Single. Event. ...that takes place in this strip...
    ... or those who everytime search for new elaborate ways to phrase the rather simple (and sad) concept of "I like this guy because he always wins".
    I seem to recall him being run out of some kingdom a while back. Running for his very life. And didn't he just decide to take a runner rather than fighting the Order-minus-Wizard-of-Supreme-Arcane-Power?

    Doesn't seem much like the guy always wins. But maybe that's just me.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I think he was doing that to save his son.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I think people are overthinking the whole Tarquin knowing DSL thing. The barebones of the comic is that the Guild retreat. If he didn't know DSL he'd have probably written a note for Z to read or similar. Doing it this way allows for Tarquin to make a few jokes while they prepare to depart.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Forikroder, your argument that Tarquin's combat ability must necessarily be dependent on the axe he just threw before teleporting away is insupportable. And watching the goalposts move from "being a fighter* means he must have tons of feats dedicated to that specific weapon which he had in storage until recently, like Roy does to his ancestral sword" to, "I'm pretty sure a greataxe does more damage than a dagger (as if we have proof that the only weapon Tarquin has on him now is a dagger)," I'm pretty sure you know it's insupportable.

    *As if we had proof that Tarquin is a single-classed fighter. Understand, I very much hope he is a single-classed fighter rather than a knight or a factotum or some such goofiness...I just don't confuse "hope" with "have evidence."
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-03 at 09:10 AM.
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    This, in a nutshell.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Hehe, "unbalanced".
    Hehe, "drinking fountain".

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Though one could plausibly make the case that without the axe Tarquin will be weakened, at least in the immediate future. Perhaps by a lot, perhaps by a minor amount. But he will be worse off.

    Sadly we cannot confirm how much or little without seeing any more evidence
    If I cared about this, I would probably do something about it.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm pretty sure the axe will go *pop* in the next strip, returning to its owner.

    Mantis probably shouldn't be invited to any tea parties until the strip is out, just for good measure.
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Forikroder, your argument that Tarquin's combat ability must necessarily be dependent on the axe he just threw before teleporting away is insupportable. And watching the goalposts move from "being a fighter* means he must have tons of feats dedicated to that specific weapon which he had in storage until recently, like Roy does to his ancestral sword" to, "I'm pretty sure a greataxe does more damage than a dagger (as if we have proof that the only weapon Tarquin has on him now is a dagger)," I'm pretty sure you know it's insupportable.

    *As if we had proof that Tarquin is a single-classed fighter. Understand, I very much hope he is a single-classed fighter rather than a knight or a factotum or some such goofiness...I just don't confuse "hope" with "have evidence."
    i never said that i said without his axe his combat ability is reduced since its unlikely for him to ahve as many feats with a different type of weapon so he wont be do as much damage and his second weapon is likely to have less enchantments

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Is there any reason (PC only?) Tarquin couldn't have a bag of holding? While I'm sure he'd still keep a small hold out weapon like a dagger on hand at all times for use in the middle of a fight in case he lost his main weapon couldn't he have an assortment of other "main" weapons in a BoH so that he could quickly replace a lost one in between battles?

    I'm just wondering since I play the various Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest games a lot and that's what I do. If my weapon is stolen or broken in a battle then as soon as that fight is done I equip a replacement.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grape Starburst View Post
    Is there any reason (PC only?) Tarquin couldn't have a bag of holding? While I'm sure he'd still keep a small hold out weapon like a dagger on hand at all times for use in the middle of a fight in case he lost his main weapon couldn't he have an assortment of other "main" weapons in a BoH so that he could quickly replace a lost one in between battles?

    I'm just wondering since I play the various Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest games a lot and that's what I do. If my weapon is stolen or broken in a battle then as soon as that fight is done I equip a replacement.
    Hmm yeah.. if -I- was a rich, magnificent bastard trying to be prepared for everything, I'd probably have a whole assortment of weapons, potions, armor, scrolls, you-name-it in a convenient little bag...

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grape Starburst View Post
    Is there any reason (PC only?) Tarquin couldn't have a bag of holding? While I'm sure he'd still keep a small hold out weapon like a dagger on hand at all times for use in the middle of a fight in case he lost his main weapon couldn't he have an assortment of other "main" weapons in a BoH so that he could quickly replace a lost one in between battles?
    If he did, it could only contain bludgeoning weapons with no points or sharp edges. A bag of holding can rupture if anything sharp pierces it, either from the inside or out. Once a bag ruptures, it's contents are lost forever. So he could have a club or maybe a mace in a bag of holding, but not a backup ax or anything.

    Edit: Actually, it's Tarquin. He probably just has a spare ax with a removable safety guard fastened to the sharp edges.
    Last edited by rgrekejin; 2012-09-03 at 10:09 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    the only impressive combat feats weve seen from him was his fight against the Order which he had his Axe then, his fight against the chick should be ignored since shes almsot undoubtably low level, and Elan is not only lower level then tarquin but most of his levels are in a class that is not good in melee fighting and the rest of his levels were being negated by his tactic
    Knowing how to pun-duel counts as impressive, given how rare it is.

    As for the fight with the Order, tripping Roy, catching Haley's arrow and stabbing Belkar with it, and throwing Durkon did not rely on the axe. For two of them, the axe was a hindrance, as he had to remove a hand from it. So he's clearly capable of impressive maneuvers without the axe.

    Yes, his offense is probably reduced. No, he is probably not "severely gimped".

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    i never said that
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=305

    Note the words, "he has no offensive ability anymore."

    If you wish to concede your assertion was wrong, do so. Don't claim you didn't make it when it's less than a page up.
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-03 at 11:18 AM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Knowing how to pun-duel counts as impressive, given how rare it is.

    As for the fight with the Order, tripping Roy, catching Haley's arrow and stabbing Belkar with it, and throwing Durkon did not rely on the axe. For two of them, the axe was a hindrance, as he had to remove a hand from it. So he's clearly capable of impressive maneuvers without the axe.

    Yes, his offense is probably reduced. No, he is probably not "severely gimped".
    theres no probably about it, unless he has a back up axe that is just as effective a weapon as the one he lost his offense is severly gimped although impressive, all his moves that actually did damage worth mentioning was all with his axe

    if he has another 2 handed weapon or can easily aquire one then he doesnt have that great of a handicap but i think its unlikely that hes jsut going to pull out another weapon so easily

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=305

    Note the words, "he has no offensive ability anymore."
    the thing i hate the absolute most about this forums is how they take absolutely every word someone saids and use the most literal translation possible and hold it against them every chance tehy get completely ignoring everything else thats been said

    yes its possible that Tarquin can still fight, worst case scenario he just steals Nales sword and moves on but IF he only has a dagger then in a one on one fight against Roy, Roy would be getting tickled Tarquin would possibly do less damage with a dagger thenThog could do with his fists (assuming Thog has the proper feats) since Thog undoubtably has more strength then Tarquin especially while raging, since Roy still managed to take a very very large beating during the fight Tarquin with only a dagger could never take Roy down and essentially has no offensive ability assuming the above is true

    i really dont think i should ahve had to go into such excruciating detail to explain waht i thought was obvious though -.-
    Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-03 at 11:22 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    if he has another 2 handed weapon or can easily aquire one then he doesnt have that great of a handicap but i think its unlikely that hes jsut going to pull out another weapon so easily
    Why do you think the ruler of an empire would be unable to obtain another battleaxe on short notice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forikroder View Post
    the thing i hate the absolute most about this forums is how they take absolutely every word someone saids and use the most literal translation possible and hold it against them every chance tehy get completely ignoring everything else thats been said
    You have to stand behind your words, dude. The burden is on you to phrase your posts more precisely. There's really only one way to interpret "He has no offensive ability anymore."
    Last edited by jere7my; 2012-09-03 at 11:32 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jere7my View Post
    Why do you think the ruler of an empire would be unable to obtain another battleaxe on short notice?



    You have to stand behind your words, dude. The burden is on you to phrase your posts more precisely. There's really only one way to interpret "He has no offensive ability anymore."
    just call it a gut feeling i dont really have any solid evidence that prove he wont pull out another axe

    i understand standing behind your words but my english obviously isnt as good as everyone else here and english isnt everyones first language so i think people should be a bit more open minded when reading

    i mean was there really any reason to attack me like that instead of jsut taking it as an exageration?
    Last edited by Forikroder; 2012-09-03 at 11:48 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelSacha View Post
    This.
    Ok, I don't know what's worse, honestly.
    If those who immediately scream "DEUS EX MACHINA!!!" for every. Single. Event. ...that takes place in this strip...
    ... or those who everytime search for new elaborate ways to phrase the rather simple (and sad) concept of "I like this guy because he always wins".
    Sad is your attempt to describe the Tarquin fandom, but I also don't get why they say "DEUS EX MACHINA" even when, apparently, drow sign language was actually a thing.
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    I like the Evil Overlord option. So do you think he read the list?
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FAD! View Post
    Sad is your attempt to describe the Tarquin fandom, but I also don't get why they say "DEUS EX MACHINA" even when, apparently, drow sign language was actually a thing.
    even with a good explanation behind it since its never hinted or shown he knows drow sign language then it becomes a deus ex machina

    not that it actually is its just a joke that was made while Tarquin escaped since the end of the comic had no punchline

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Nov 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I don't think the Order's ambush was completely negated. It seems to me that a lot of posters have forgotten the Order was retreating from an ambush by the LG. At that time, the Order was outnumbered and outgunned, so Roy gave the order to retreat. Down in the depths of the pyramid, the Order pulls off an ambush of a superior force. The LG has been weakened to the point that they have to flee, or risk destruction. Now the Order has the time to heal, locate V, and to locate the Gate (if possible).

    Besides, Tarquin is a high level adventurer who has almost certainly been around since 1st edition (Haley's father also started out as a 1st edition character). He should have lots of practical tricks and abilities learned over the decades. What good high level adventurer wouldn't? I also think that Tarquin has been defeated a lot, and has learned from those defeats.

    I also think it likely that Tarquin has more than one powerful weapon available. The loss of the axe will hurt, but he can go back to his personal arsenal and get a new weapon. Most high level PCs I've known have more weapons than they can carry around. And it is always good to carry a light weapon (like a dagger) for those times that light weapons are the only ones useable.

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