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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smolder View Post
    By definition, it makes it more plausible. Believable is in the eye of the beholder.
    Making it completely unbelievable, as there wasn't a single beholder in the strip.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I think the real question is, why does Belkar feel the need to leap about 4 feet in the air as part of a coup de grace?

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by raymundo View Post
    Monkey grip? Doesn't he merely get a -4 or -2 to hit?

    Besides, never let reason get in the way of awesome.
    Belkar has been unhappy about his weapon shrinkage since, literally, the first strip. I think it would be six kinds of awesome if he started using Tarkie's axe.

    Also, smart call to bail. I don't care how high level you are, going solo against Roy and Belkar, with cleric support and rogue attacks, is a losing play, and fast.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Voyager's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayac View Post
    Five more says it's part of Tarquin's plan!
    This is Tarquin. If its not part of his plans now, it will be by the time he's done with it.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    KoboldRevenge's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    So we're back onto the gate finding route now.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    His decision to retreat might have been less in terms of self preservation and more in terms of long term planning. He has already shown himself to be willing and able to take on the Order by himself. But he needs Nale and his knowledge of the gates. Belkar was about to kill Nale and the Zz'dtri might have been next to die. Winning the battle but losing the war doesn't fit his profile.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Being able to communicate with the only LG member capable of a fast and easy escape is totally a necessary component of said LG escaping.
    Sure, but you probably don't need sign language to signal "Get us out of here!" They would've gotten away regardless; all that knowledge did was permit Tarquin to do it suavely.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Wick View Post
    Forget Tarquin, why does Zzdtri know drow sign language? Or is drow sign language more than a crutch for deaf people?
    Incurably deaf drow--like any drow with any disability that can't be easily cured--are slaughtered as soon as it becomes evident they're deaf.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jere7my View Post
    Sure, but you probably don't need sign language to signal "Get us out of here!" They would've gotten away regardless; all that knowledge did was permit Tarquin to do it suavely.
    Not really, without that "suave" clear-instant command to Z Roy and the rest of the gang would have been up their asses way before they could pull it off... and even with that, they still managed to escape only by a narrow margin.

    I'm sorry, but the fog curtain "luckily" disappearing on the very same round Tarquin's "lucky" ability to communicate non-verbally to (lucky!) specifically the drow race crosses way too high the line to me.

  10. - Top - End - #100
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Uh oh -- they seem to have forgotten someone... Mallack is NOT going to be pleased.

    Oh and as for teleport -- it isnt all that hard to make it not a battlefield option -- just make it take 10 combat rounds to cast.
    Last edited by silvadel; 2012-08-30 at 10:43 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    His decision to retreat might have been less in terms of self preservation and more in terms of long term planning. He has already shown himself to be willing and able to take on the Order by himself. But he needs Nale and his knowledge of the gates. Belkar was about to kill Nale and the Zz'dtri might have been next to die. Winning the battle but losing the war doesn't fit his profile.
    Well....

    Maybe. But we have seen these combatants before, and both Roy and Belkar were getting hits with regularity. Assuming Roy is hitting for 50-odd points per swing and he gets three swings a round, all it takes is for the dice to roll in his favor one round, and it's all over.

    Do we have any idea what level of damage Belkar does? Even Roy notes that he is a capable warrior, and we've just seen how hard Roy can hit.

    Haley is probably putting out ranged damage that's fairly close to what Roy generates, as well. (+5 bow, stat adds say +1, supporting feats to boost damage/accuracy adds +4 each, 4 shots per round at 1d6+10)

    No matter how high level he is, I doubt Tarkie has more than 160 hitpoints or so.

    Assuming the Order has level-appropriate items (not directly supported in canon but a reasonable assumption, I guess, since we have seen them buying...stuff), that's getting to be a solid wall of damage, and best avoided no matter who you are.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Tridax's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Those who most probably are going to use the axe are Belkar or Durkon. Roy will not abandon his family sword, and others in the party simply do not have the proficiency in wielding two-handed weapons.

    But I think that none of them will use the axe for battle. Perhaps Haley will just put it to her Bag of Holding (or whatever is the bag's name) for later.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Not really, without that "suave" clear-instant command to Z Roy and the rest of the gang would have been up their asses way before they could pull it off... and even with that, they still managed to escape only by a narrow margin.
    If he couldn't think of a way to communicate that clearly with hand gestures and I can think of at least three all he had to do was lean in close and mouth "Teleport!" If he had time to mention Kilkil, he would've had time to spell "teleport" with his fingers. Sure, there might be some slight chance of miscommunication, but not as great compared to the chance of Zz'd'tri's spell fizzling.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    While I know the D&D rule related jokes are far less common now, and reliance on them even less so, I wonder if:

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    Nale will be dead by the time Tarquin and company finish teleporting to wherever they are or die shortly afterwords, due to being in negative hp and failing saves to stop said dying.


    A semi wild guess but who knows...


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    Lawful Good Human Wizard (3rd level)

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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Fun comic - meets the high standards :) I had forgotten that Kilkil was tarquin's accountant, too.

    Tarquin is pretty damn tough. I mean - the order keeps inconveniencing Xykon, even killing him once. Nothing they do seems to actually effect Tarquin, though. That seems a little odd. How powerful IS he?

  16. - Top - End - #106
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    This is Tarquin. If its not part of his plans now, it will be have been by the time he's done with it.
    Fixed that for you.

    Of course, as a good general, he knows that it's advisable to have a contingency plan for a tactical retreat if one becomes necessary.

    Which won't stop anyone here from calling it "unbelievable."
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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    FujinAkari's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracarot View Post
    While I know the D&D rule related jokes are far less common now, and reliance on them even less so, I wonder if:

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    Nale will be dead by the time Tarquin and company finish teleporting to wherever they are or die shortly afterwords, due to being in negative hp and failing saves to stop said dying.


    A semi wild guess but who knows...
    Seems very unlikely... and why are you spoiling that? O.o
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracarot View Post
    While I know the D&D rule related jokes are far less common now, and reliance on them even less so, I wonder if:

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    Nale will be dead by the time Tarquin and company finish teleporting to wherever they are or die shortly afterwords, due to being in negative hp and failing saves to stop said dying.


    A semi wild guess but who knows...
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    Unlikely. It is a DC 15 heal check to stabilize a dying character which Tarquin may or may not have enough ranks in. But odds are he has at least one healing item on his person he could use.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    JSSheridan's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Thanks Giant!
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    To die in order to be reborn to the new world

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Haha, Tarquin still talking to us, his audience, while making an escape. A fine night for everyone indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
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    Unlikely. It is a DC 15 heal check to stabilize a dying character which Tarquin may or may not have enough ranks in. But odds are he has at least one healing item on his person he could use.
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    Like a Ring of regeneration?
    At any rate, how is Nale dying a joke?


    Quote Originally Posted by AutomatedTeller View Post
    Tarquin is pretty damn tough. I mean - the order keeps inconveniencing Xykon, even killing him once. Nothing they do seems to actually effect Tarquin, though. That seems a little odd. How powerful IS he?
    I like to think he's a Level 20 multiclass fighter (or a single-class fighter with really good feats). I think it accounts for everything we've seen so far.
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2012-08-30 at 11:48 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    It looks like Tarquin's a cunning linguist, one way or another....

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Sethram's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Wick View Post
    Forget Tarquin, why does Zzdtri know drow sign language? Or is drow sign language more than a crutch for deaf people?
    Not that I know anything about Drow, but the importance of sign language or hand talk is entirely up to the culture that produces it. As I understand it, many of the different Native American cultures had well developed sign language that wasn't necessarily taught just to help communicate with the non-hearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Haha, Tarquin still talking to us, his audience, while making an escape. A fine night for everyone indeed :smallbiggrin
    Which makes Tarquin's little quip about Nale talking to hear himself talk even more funny.
    Last edited by Sethram; 2012-08-31 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Fusion-HA!

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jere7my View Post
    If he couldn't think of a way to communicate that clearly with hand gestures and I can think of at least three all he had to do was lean in close and mouth "Teleport!" If he had time to mention Kilkil, he would've had time to spell "teleport" with his fingers. Sure, there might be some slight chance of miscommunication, but not as great compared to the chance of Zz'd'tri's spell fizzling.
    What I'm addressing here is not fizzling, but overly convenient efficiency.

    Could he have used some more common hand gestures?
    Sure, and by the time Z understood+enacted the order, the entire Order would have been up their asses.

    Could he have shouted in his hear?
    Sure, and by doing that Roy would have realized his intentions and immediately run there pummeling.

    By using a specific non-verbal drow code (I mean, really?) he not only conveyed his order perfectly within a second, but effectively cut up Roy and everyone else from understanding it before they banded together for the teleport.
    Given how even with all the above they still barely escaped, it's no stretch to say that T's "lucky" ability effectively saved the team.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WindStruck View Post
    You guys remember Tarquin also mentioning knowing the elf-ambasador-in-disquise was a drow and was sending them gift baskets? Yeah... it seems Tarquin has more relations to them than we might think... heck, I wonder if he really DOES have a true neutral half-drow son somewhere called lean or anel?
    Ll'naenea, perhaps?
    When in doubt, disbelieve the illusion!

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Heh, arcana unearthed.
    Yup, shows that Tarquin is as old as the mountains.
    And I love the drow jokes too!
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  26. - Top - End - #116
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by silvadel View Post
    Uh oh -- they seem to have forgotten someone... Mallack is NOT going to be pleased.
    Getting abandoned by their respective parties is one more thing Durkon and Malack can bond over.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Re: Malack left behind--we don't know where they've teleported to, they might have gone back to the entrance of the pyramid and will make haste to rejoin him! I would be surprised if Tarquin intended to leave this fight for longer than it takes for everyone to recover their hearing.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Could he have used some more common hand gestures?
    Sure, and by the time Z understood+enacted the order, the entire Order would have been up their asses.
    It would not have taken any longer to mouth the word "Teleport", or to point at Zz'd'tri and make a "Get us out of here" gesture or two, than it did to convey two complete sentences in Drow sign language (and in Common he was talking about bec de corbins and curvy Drow maidens in the same amount of time). The sign language just allowed him to do it in style.

    Here's an experiment: Time how long it takes you to say those two sentences, about the bec de corbin and so on. Then try to silently communicate the word "Teleport" or "Get us out of here" in the same amount of time or less. I bet it won't be that hard...even if you don't know Drow sign language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Could he have shouted in his hear?
    Sure, and by doing that Roy would have realized his intentions and immediately run there pummeling.
    Good point. Doing it this way, Roy couldn't possibly say "Durkon! They're going to teleport!" in the next panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    By using a specific non-verbal drow code (I mean, really?)
    I think you're missing the joke. Back in the day, everybody who could learned Drow sign language, because it was Kewl. It's not any kind of a stretch to say that a random old-school character sheet from the time immediately following the release of Unearthed Arcana would have Drow sign language written on it. For a while, that was as common as a 17 comeliness.
    Last edited by jere7my; 2012-08-31 at 02:12 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    LuPuWei's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    They... defeated the Linear Guild??

    Curb-Stomped them? Using a plan that actually worked? Stood their ground instead of running away? Didn't need Lawyers and Loopholes?

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  30. - Top - End - #120
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    "if You Don't Want Me To Kill Him Say So Now Okay!"

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