Page 8 of 16 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 LastLast
Results 211 to 240 of 451
  1. - Top - End - #211
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    oppyu's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Tarquin fandom: Yes, your guy really is that awesome and crazy prepared. Be joyful.

    Tarquin hatedom: Xykon is coming. Be joyful.

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I wonder if OOTS gets any xp for this?
    I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by the_tick_rules View Post
    I wonder if OOTS gets any xp for this?
    As long as they 'defeated' the new LG, they do get xp for them.

    One could argue whether they really 'defeated' Tarquin, Malak, Zz'dtri and Quarr, but they'll definitely get xp for Nale and Kilkil.

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Banned
     
    willpell's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    And Sabine. (Though really, it's a fault of the rules that anyone but Durkon and maybe Haley is entitled to XP for that.)
    Last edited by willpell; 2012-08-31 at 11:39 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
    Ugh. Fine, sure, it's totally reasonable for Tarquin to know Drow Sign Language, but I really REALLY wish it had even come up as an obscure background joke somewhere before, instead of him saying "Oh by the way I know the exact thing to do to undercut their victory."

    Even a Chekhov's Gun is better than a Deus Ex Machina.
    C'mon... Tarquin is the foil to Roy that Thog could never be. Thog is just a STR based Berserker. Tarquin is a smart Fighter, probably single classed just as is Roy, and also probably higher level. Roy beat the simpleton Thog by using the cross-class skill of Knowledge:Architecture, FerThor'sSake. Tarquin, OTOH, is an intelligent, charismatic Fighter with a huge pile of non-optimal Feats (and probably skills) based upon his INT and CHA which he uses to excellent effect in a game setting where optimization is quite typically (and frankly, boringly) king.

    So count me in as a Tarquin fangirl. I prefer a character who achieves victory via the use of non-traditional Feats and tactics over a single-minded focus on some "char-ops" build that Roy needs to walk off a cliff to defeat (cannot find the "half-ogre, reach plus spiked-chain" comic to cite here, damnit).


    PS: I never bought into the theory that Malack would join the OotS. Malack seems much too aligned with Tarquin to betray him in that manner.
    I'm a goddamn baby-making, life-taking MACHINE!

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Haley has always been suspicious of Malack and Tarquin. They may not jump to the conclusion that Malack's in cahoots with Nale, but it's reasonable to assume that Tarquin has taken interest in whatever the Order and Guild are after.
    While that is one of the possible reasonable assumptions, it does not inherently put Malack in opposition to the Order. So the question remains.

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm just gonna throw out that tropes are not bad - sometimes, the Deus Ex Machina gets presented as such because there was no reason to explain it earlier in the story. It's not necessarily lazy writing, and I'm willing to give Rich the benefit of the doubt in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chess Tyrant View Post
    As long as they 'defeated' the new LG, they do get xp for them.

    One could argue whether they really 'defeated' Tarquin, Malak, Zz'dtri and Quarr, but they'll definitely get xp for Nale and Kilkil.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    And Sabine. (Though really, it's a fault of the rules that anyone but Durkon and maybe Haley is entitled to XP for that.)
    And Tarquin & Z - in the example linked, the chimera was about to make a tactical retreat, but they were still going to get XP for defeating it. Probably not anything for Malack or Qarr, though.
    Last edited by Sorator; 2012-09-01 at 01:32 AM.
    LGBTitP

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I just want to say that if this isn't the weirdest line of argument I've seen this thread take yet, it's not for lack of trying.

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorator View Post
    Probably not anything for Malack or Qarr, though.
    That'd be too bad, because the rule for gaining XP for "overcoming challenges" instead of "killing stuff" is intended to encourage kill-less solutions, isn't it? Not granting XP for Qarr and Malack because they cut them off would undermine this intention.

    And the Giant would strike me as a person who, if this actually was a game of D&D, would enforce this. But that's just my point of view, of course
    Last edited by raymundo; 2012-09-01 at 01:48 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #219
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    weeping eagle's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    rocky coast, golden shore

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
    Ugh. Fine, sure, it's totally reasonable for Tarquin to know Drow Sign Language, but I really REALLY wish it had even come up as an obscure background joke somewhere before, instead of him saying "Oh by the way I know the exact thing to do to undercut their victory."

    Even a Chekhov's Gun is better than a Deus Ex Machina.
    In real life, he could've as easily conveyed his command with *point, point, point, point*, *waves pointing finger in big circles over his head* (or *flick-splays fingers on both hands*, or whatever).

    It's not a Deus Ex Machina. It's a joke.

  10. - Top - End - #220
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    And once again we see why wizards are considered so ridiculously overpowered in 3e D&D! All it takes is one spell to completely negate an entire ambush.
    Well, first action from any mage on the ambushing side is "dimensional anchor". Unless you want to let them a chance to escape, but even in that case, it's better to let them find a more dangerous way (like flying or running).

    The ambushing side don't have any caster able to do so ? It's not well prepared enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by weeping eagle View Post
    In real life, he could've as easily conveyed his command with *point, point, point, point*, *waves pointing finger in big circles over his head* (or *flick-splays fingers on both hands*, or whatever).

    It's not a Deus Ex Machina. It's a joke.
    That or use the ol'good "write on paper what I want to say".

    There were a bunch of way for Tarquin to give the drow that order. I doubt him knowing drow sign langage will end up being as critical as most people seem to think.

    Oh, and I love how Tarquin determines Nale's consciousness based on his love of his own voice.

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    After my first reading I though "that sure is anti-climactic, howmany easy escapes are going to prolong this drawn out storyline?"

    After the second reading, I realised that I haven't seen where they ended up though. "Out of the frying pan, into the fire" is very much an option here. If they end up somewhere safe, able to regroup/recover then yes, it'll be another boring escape from the LG. But I'll hold off judgement until I've seen the next few comics though :) Can't judge a story-writing decision without seeing at least part of the followup happenings.

  12. - Top - End - #222
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stella View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher
    Ugh. Fine, sure, it's totally reasonable for Tarquin to know Drow Sign Language, but I really REALLY wish it had even come up as an obscure background joke somewhere before, instead of him saying "Oh by the way I know the exact thing to do to undercut their victory."

    Even a Chekhov's Gun is better than a Deus Ex Machina.
    C'mon... Tarquin is the foil to Roy that Thog could never be. Thog is just a STR based Berserker. Tarquin is a smart Fighter, probably single classed just as is Roy, and also probably higher level. Roy beat the simpleton Thog by using the cross-class skill of Knowledge:Architecture, FerThor'sSake. Tarquin, OTOH, is an intelligent, charismatic Fighter with a huge pile of non-optimal Feats (and probably skills) based upon his INT and CHA which he uses to excellent effect in a game setting where optimization is quite typically (and frankly, boringly) king.
    I just want to say I think these are both excellent points.
    I don't actually play D&D. I do play:

    Magic: the Gathering Online (with FREE tournaments at Gatherling)
    DC Universe, my surprisingly good CoH replacement
    Planetside 2, MMO-meets-FPS (and the first shooter I've liked in ages).
    Simunomics - a massive multiplayer Business Simulation Game. Browser-based, free to play.

  13. - Top - End - #223
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FujinAkari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    I like this comic, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to grumble about Tarquin knowing Drow-cant or whatever its called, despite how rationally its explained :P

    *also remembers the 2E days where a bloody drow was all but required in amy gaming group*
    Looks like I was slightly off base... while I was right that people would unreasonably grumble about Drow-cant, I really didn't think there would be so many people to demonstrate such a thorough lack of understanding about what Deus Ex Machina means.

    This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... and I've posted this before, but people are getting it nearly CRIMINALLY wrong at this point.

    Deus Ex Machina is defined as:
    Quote Originally Posted by dictionary
    any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot.
    While typically it is reserved for a device that SOLVES the problems and moves the story into its conclusion, that isn't an inherent part of its definition, so I will be skipping that for now.

    1) Drow Cant isn't a device. Deus Ex Machina explicitly refers to a device, some invention or creation abruptly able to undo whatever problems the characters are encountering in order to let them triumph at a point where all hope seemed to be lost.

    2) Drow Cant didn't resolve any difficulties for the heroes. The Heroes were ALREADY WINNING. This is probably the greatest and most offensive misuse of the term, in my eyes. Deus Ex Machina has a very explicit and context-specific meaning, but a lot of people seem to start throwing it around blindly any time anything happens which they don't like.

    3) Drow Cant didn't even cause anything to happen! It was totally irrelevant. As mentioned, Tarquin had about eight other ways he could have communicated his message, but Rich went with the one that delivered humor. It really says something about the irrationality of the hatred for Tarquin that a strip can be published and, rather than being upset that a Wizard who has never been shown to have Teleport before abruptly has the exact spell needed to get the LG out of a losing battle, people instead complain that the general whose nation borders a Drow kingdom happens to know the Drow language.

    *fume*

    Sorry... but seriously... if you aren't going to use terms correctly, consider not using them... it only makes your argument look weaker.
    Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!

    English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
    Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post

  14. - Top - End - #224
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    people instead complain that the general whose nation borders a Drow kingdom happens to know the Drow language.
    Does it? I know the Empire of Blood borders the *elven* kingdoms, but it doesn't perforce follow that it also borders the Drow territory.

  15. - Top - End - #225
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Emperordaniel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Somewhere I've never been
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Does it? I know the Empire of Blood borders the *elven* kingdoms, but it doesn't perforce follow that it also borders the Drow territory.
    Kingdoms; that's a plural right there. Drow are a subtype of elf, thus it is not unreasonable to assume that their territory is somewhere within the generic area labeled "The Elven Kingdoms".
    group hug!
    Hold person.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    You forgot that the half-orc cleric who researched it is Redcloak's niece.
    Spoiler: Past Avatars
    Show


    Awesome elf cleric avatar made by Kurien. Many thanks!

  16. - Top - End - #226
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperordaniel View Post
    Kingdoms; that's a plural right there. Drow are a subtype of elf, thus it is not unreasonable to assume that their territory is somewhere within the generic area labeled "The Elven Kingdoms".
    Actually, it wouldn't be very reasonable since a) the dark elves usually live underground while surface elves prefer arboreal themes and b) the dark elves usually hate surface elves more than any others.

    Maybe she meant every kingdom borders the dark elves' domain by virtue of being on the surface.
    Last edited by Smolder; 2012-09-01 at 09:37 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #227
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... and I've posted this before, but people are getting it nearly CRIMINALLY wrong at this point.
    Just to add, a good example from the strip (and V later even used the very term to refer to that event) would be when Xykon's zombie dragon head falls straight on the Xykon Decoy that was about to roast V.



    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Does it? I know the Empire of Blood borders the *elven* kingdoms, but it doesn't perforce follow that it also borders the Drow territory.
    Every nation in the world vertically borders Drow territory.

    ;)
    95 K1500 Z71 XCSB 6.5 4L80-E

  18. - Top - End - #228
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    May 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    I am now wondering if there's any young genre savvy half-drow out here. Am I the only one?


  19. - Top - End - #229
    Troll in the Playground
     
    t209's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by le Suisse View Post
    I am now wondering if there's any young genre savvy half-drow out here. Am I the only one?
    So, she'll be a good role playing character in never winter nights 2.
    Pony Minecraft Avatar by Dirtytabs
    Rest in Peace:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Miko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
    Krunch- Looking For Group
    Bill- Left 4 Dead
    Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
    Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
    Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
    Gabe- Dead Space 2
    Dom- Gears of War 3
    Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
    Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
    Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
    Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
    Apple Jack's parents

  20. - Top - End - #230
    Banned
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WindStruck View Post
    No, I think a month's worth of clear and coherent strips would get anyone to buy that the enterprise really did just blow up Xykon.
    For me it wouldn't. Again, suspension of disbelief.

  21. - Top - End - #231
    Troll in the Playground
     
    zimmerwald1915's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Every nation in the world vertically borders Drow territory.
    That's an enormous concession! We must never forget that every nation in the world unjustly occupies Drow territory.
    Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley Fanclub
    I hate a song that makes you think that you are not any good...Because you are too old or too young or too fat or too slim. Too ugly or too this or too that....I'm out to sing songs that will prove to you that this is your world...no matter what color, what size you are, how you are built, I am out to sing the songs that make you take pride in yourself and in your work.
    Human stick-figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find more here.

  22. - Top - End - #232
    Banned
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smolder View Post
    Again, having a sound explanation for something, by definition, makes it plausible.
    It makes it possible, not plausible.
    Some old unknown ally suddenly appearing on the battleground and saving T is plausible.
    An amulet of teleport being drawn there by a powerful tornado bouncing all the way there along a secret air duct and then falling into T's hands may be "soundly explained", but certainly not plausible.

    Just because something can be explained it doesn't automatically make it buyable.

    Which is why I said believable is subjective. You can choose to believe something regardless of the amount of evidence for or against it.
    If I find said amount of evidence to be evanescent at best, sure.
    Last edited by Mantine; 2012-09-01 at 11:35 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #233
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Just because something can be explained it doesn't automatically make it buyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Tl;dr What do I care if it's "adequately explained by the comic itself"?
    You could give me Xykon blasted to bits by the Enterprise and spend one month's worth of strips to explain how Kirk got there... but that doesn't mean I would buy it.
    If, as you have said, a month's worth of explanation in the comic wouldn't be enough for you to "buy" something, then nothing in the OOTSverse is buyable by your definition. Rich is never going to spend a month explaining something, nor would that be entertaining in any way.

  24. - Top - End - #234
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    The Second's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mehville

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Hmm...

    He's never surprised. Not even when he's surprised.

    He sends fruit baskets to the Drow. Just in case.

    He doesn't change his plans, his plans change for him.

    He uses escaped slaves to construct one-hundred foot tall birthday messages for his sons.

    He appreciates the value of a good spear.

    His people don't respect him out of fear, they fear him out of respect.

    His plan B has a plan B.

    People never return his gifts (well, except for Elan, but that's a special case).

    By Jove, I've got it! Taquin IS the most interesting man in the world.

    1782. I will remember we're playing 4th edition and stop using my imagination.
    - From 1975 things MR. Welch is no longer allowed to do in an RPG.

  25. - Top - End - #235
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FujinAkari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Does it? I know the Empire of Blood borders the *elven* kingdoms, but it doesn't perforce follow that it also borders the Drow territory.
    Eh... possibly... though if Tarquin thinks the Drow may be seeking a military alliance doesn't that imply that the Drow military would be relatively nearby?

    Edit: Additionally, classic D&D holds that the Drow are a dark sect of elves driven underground by some past conflict, so it does make sense that if the Elven Kingdoms are here, the Drow are going to be here as well. My point remains that it is a bit shortsighted to be surprised that Tarquin knows the language of one of the few groups he -doesn't- control and actually has to keep tabs on!
    Last edited by FujinAkari; 2012-09-01 at 12:43 PM.
    Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!

    English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
    Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post

  26. - Top - End - #236
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    Eh... possibly... though if Tarquin thinks the Drow may be seeking a military alliance doesn't that preclude the Drow military being relatively nearby?
    I think you mean "require."
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  27. - Top - End - #237
    Banned
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Smolder View Post
    If, as you have said, a month's worth of explanation in the comic wouldn't be enough for you to "buy" something, then nothing in the OOTSverse is buyable by your definition. Rich is never going to spend a month explaining something, nor would that be entertaining in any way.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

  28. - Top - End - #238
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FujinAkari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I think you mean "require."
    Glancing at a dictionary, you appear to be correct. Odd, I apparently learned the definition of that word incorrectly!

    Thanks Kish :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantine View Post
    Like Sarcasm, Hyperbole relies largely on tone of voice and facial expression and is generally best not employed via a textual medium such as forums :P
    Last edited by FujinAkari; 2012-09-01 at 12:44 PM.
    Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!

    English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
    Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread


  30. - Top - End - #240
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread

    Been thinking a little about this debate about the plausibility of Tarquin's little tricks, and the suspension of disbelief in this comic.

    First, to those who feel that Tarquin knowing Drow sign destroys credulity for you, I say, well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't think anyone here is saying that you aren't. What some of us who feel like Tarquin's tricks are an addition to this comic as opposed to being a subtraction are saying that we don't find it hard to believe at all. In fact, to me at least, knowing something like Drow Cant is completely in character for Tarquin, based upon what I've seen from him in the past.

    Secondly, I would say that this comic has never seemed to have taken itself too seriously. It has, in fact, broken the fourth wall on occasion. So if one is looking for "serious" storytelling, one may be reading the wrong comic.

    Also, I would add, if one dislikes the mode by which Rich chooses to tell his most excellent story, why would one continue to read the comic? I would say that one is drawn in by the way Rich spins his tale, so like it or not, he has done his job.

    That's my two copper pieces.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •