Fairy Tail II: Second Generation Thread Slayers

[Soras Teva Gee]

There is a difference between having that second origin thingy, and then pulling an armor that breaks the rules of magic out from her ***

Well I personally put "breaks the rules of magic" as a rather hyperbolic statement that means more like "is a really strong counterspell armor/weapon" since that seems to have been the business end effect of it. Which also totally makes sense to use on someone like Minerva and fits the obvious entire point of Erza's stated build... pulling out the ideal weapon/armor for the job because you've built up a collection for just that purpose.

Seriously the bull to me was more when I was reading through the early arcs and had to watch Erza be painfully Worfed every arc with things like fueling a magical carriage so she didn't just beat the entire arc single handed.

Now there is a debate to be had if she should have started more Archer less Gilgamesh from the get-go, been stated to be by far the weakest/newest S-class, been a supporting not main team character, or some such.... but yeah then we're redoing the entire manga. Might be better (might be worse) but nothing really to be done about it.

But basically to me the 100 monsters and beating Minerva is in my mind finally fully living up to her rep.

[DarkEternal]

Honestly, most of Erza's victories pissed me off. Not as much as Natsus victories, but close. The only difference is that, at the very least in the anime, Erza wins with awesome background effects(especially vs that tree guy. She should have lost that one ten fold, but even if she pulled off a win it was awesome because of the way it happened).

Honestly, I don't really get why I like this show(didn't yet get to reading the manga). It's so awesome and yet so frustrating because it makes fun of itself and ruins everything that could be dramatic about it and actually build characters(Lisanna is the prime candidate here). Also, it suffers from some Naruto syndromes, in that I want to know more about the supporting cast then the main one(though to be fair, it's in much, much lesser quantities. These people are at least likeable)

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Seriously, though, I have to wonder how powerful Ichiya is. He single handedly defeated Bacchus and the other guy with one punch. The same Bacchus that is "supposedly" on Erzas level of power. And Erza always says that Ichiya is a superb wizard even if he creeps everyone out. The Elfman match sort of made sense since it ended with Elfman in traction, but here?

[Socratov]

I disagree on Erza's wins, Basically she is built around "there is an armor for that". The only way to counter that is preparing for every armor she has. If she shows all of her armors off regularly she will encounter more people who want to take her out and might succeed in doing so. If she has a couple of armors that are so rare as her last toy, then people with similar magic (exquip is a certain style of magic and Erza is not the only one, just the best) will hunt her down for her collection.

So it makes sense for her to keep her stuff hidden as best as she can and not show it off.

Second, her latest armor might have side effects and restrictionscoming along with the power.

I think she deserved what happened in this arc. Yes she did impossible things, but then again, she is one of the strongest mages on the damn planet. FT (with the TI group) is the strongest guild out there... Erza is the 3rd (?) strongest in the guild and there you go, she is one of the strongest wizards on the planet there, and maybe could have taken jura on...

[DarkEternal]

Gildarts is stronger. I'd say Laxus is too, though that remains to be seen. And of course Makarov is probably stronger than both combined, but yeah - she is up there.

[Socratov]

Gildarts is stronger. I'd say Laxus is too, though that remains to be seen. And of course Makarov is probably stronger than both combined, but yeah - she is up there.

well, yeah, that's what I meant: gildartz 1, makarov 2, erza 3, Laxus 4. order based on flexibility and preparedness. Laxus on the other hand has the whole teleportation thing going on which accounts for a lot. But my point here is that Erza is strong, like, really strong. She is the strongest exquip magic user around by virtue of exquipping the fastest not only for swords, but armor as well...She has also been worfed a lot of times and she has deserved her spot in the limelight more then enough.

[lord_khaine]

I seriously you are missing something, if you are placing Laxus as nr 4 in FT, after he has just defeated the strongest human wizard in a fair fight, and for that matter beaten his fathers guild in a unfair fight.

I am pretty sure that currently leaves him as the strongest human wizard, and therefore the nr 1 in FT as well.

[Socratov]

I seriously you are missing something, if you are placing Laxus as nr 4 in FT, after he has just defeated the strongest human wizard in a fair fight, and for that matter beaten his fathers guild in a unfair fight.

I am pretty sure that currently leaves him as the strongest human wizard, and therefore the nr 1 in FT as well.

No, Guildartz is the human wizard who people rebuild cities for when he visits. Guildartz is #1. yes he beat Jura (one of the saints) but Jura is not the most powerful wizard on the planet. yes he is strong and to be top 5 in teh strongest guild means a whole lot. His greatest asset is speed and against Jura that works like a charm. Besides, Raven Tail was a (slight) dud, they were set up as the bane of FT, but they lacked anything in defeating FT. As for Makarov, he is strong, he actually could hold his own against #4Xx0r Hades for some time. I admit Laxus and Erza are very close, but I'd give the edge to Erza for now...

[lord_khaine]

No, Guildartz is the human wizard who people rebuild cities for when he visits. Guildartz is #1. yes he beat Jura (one of the saints) but Jura is not the most powerful wizard on the planet. yes he is strong and to be top 5 in teh strongest guild means a whole lot. His greatest asset is speed and against Jura that works like a charm. Besides, Raven Tail was a (slight) dud, they were set up as the bane of FT, but they lacked anything in defeating FT. As for Makarov, he is strong, he actually could hold his own against #4Xx0r Hades for some time. I admit Laxus and Erza are very close, but I'd give the edge to Erza for now...

That people have to rebuild their cities after Guildarts have been though doesnt make him nr 1, it just means he lack control, and thats a sign of weakness, not strenght.
And Jura was described as the strongest human saint, meaning he was considered the strongest human wizard in the kingdom, a titel he did have some claim to considering how allround powerfull he were, it was certainly not speed alone that allowed Laxus to defeat him.
As for Makarov's fight against Hades, then i would like to point out that it actualy went worse than Laxus's fight against him later on, and that is one of the reasons for why i belive Laxus has surpased him.

[DarkEternal]

Honestly, the entire "power" thing oscilates terribly in this show. In the first few arcs, that Juan guy could wreck the entire Fairy Tail on his own once Makarov was indisposed, Erza, Natsu and company all included u ntil Makarov showed up. I think he is still pretty much the strongest character, but the author uses whatever shenanigans he can to take him out of the picture(sickness, getting surprised, using emotions of hurting his kids against him and so on and so forth) so that he wouldn't be able to take care of everything on his own whenever crap hit the fan.

Similar thing went on in Rurouni Kenshin with Seijuro Hiko. Gildarts would probably be number two. From there it gets iffy, but from what I have seen, I'd probably place Laxus in 3, even though due to story line reasons(what with this show having the ability that when main characters get super pissed off they pull victories out of their arse), if they faced, Erza would win.

As for Makarov's fight against Hades, then i would like to point out that it actualy went worse than Laxus's fight against him later on, and that is one of the reasons for why i belive Laxus has surpased him.

The difference also being that Hades fought at full power against Makarov, rested and everything, while he fought against an entire team before Laxus came(admittedly, he wiped the floor with them, but still). Also, Fairy Law could have taken care of him and everyone else right there and then, but like I mentioned up there, the show needs to take Makarov out of the fight, which they did this time with using the anti Fairy law which would also destroy everyone that is a part of Fairy Tail.

[lord_khaine]

Honestly, the entire "power" thing oscilates terribly in this show. In the first few arcs, that Juan guy could wreck the entire Fairy Tail on his own once Makarov was indisposed, Erza, Natsu and company all included u ntil Makarov showed up. I think he is still pretty much the strongest character, but the author uses whatever shenanigans he can to take him out of the picture(sickness, getting surprised, using emotions of hurting his kids against him and so on and so forth) so that he wouldn't be able to take care of everything on his own whenever crap hit the fan.

I think you mean that Jose guy? the leader of Phantom Lord?
Well, he was also a wizard Saint, and at that time FT only had 1 active member of their S-class around, so it does kinda makes sense that he could kick the rest of FT around.

The difference also being that Hades fought at full power against Makarov, rested and everything, while he fought against an entire team before Laxus came(admittedly, he wiped the floor with them, but still). Also, Fairy Law could have taken care of him and everyone else right there and then, but like I mentioned up there, the show needs to take Makarov out of the fight, which they did this time with using the anti Fairy law which would also destroy everyone that is a part of Fairy Tail.

Well, he was also fighting Laxus at full power, and from what i could see, the only thing the rest of FT had managet at that point was to give him a warmup.
And regarding Hades Grimoire Law, then it was only really used to negate the use of Markarovs Fairy Law, due to it resulting in mutual destruction of both guilds, but i would still say that Markarov was beaten in a fair fight there.

I will point out however, that Laxus can also use Fairy Law, one of the reasons for why i rank him as nr 1.

[Socratov]

1. Jura was the least powerful of the 10 wizard saints. He was #10 of the saints.

2. Gildartz has control (that's why he isn't a walking dustclone). However, if you have a dial going form 0 to 10 or 0 to 10000000000000000, any waver in control has a different effect. That is exactly the case with Gildartz. The only reason he isn't around much is becuase he's looking for acnologia to beat the living daylights out of. he's pretty much the only person I saw successfuly walking away from a seriously fighting Natsu without even a breath spilled.

yeah, Gildartz is the strongest.

Makarov #2

Now, the question of laxus vs. Erza, Probably erza will win. Why? Same reason as batman: preparation. No Fairy law won't make a difference becuase Erza is not the absolute enemy. Laxus knows Fairy Law, but has yet to use it successfully on screen (who says he didn't use it against Raven Tail?). Laxus has 1 element, erza has whatever she needs. My money is on Erza.

[LaZodiac]

I still personally think Gildartz is the strongest, because he's my favorite character. I figure it's less that he lacks control of his power, and more that he's just not intelligent in any way except for fighting, so he's actually the type of person who'd run into walls without thinking it.

Gildartz's magic is also probably the most interesting, to me. Splitting Magic is really cool.

[Kato]

1. Jura was the least powerful of the 10 wizard saints. He was #10 of the saints.

Was. He's #5 now.

Laxus knows Fairy Law, but has yet to use it successfully on screen (who says he didn't use it against Raven Tail?).

The anime, for what that's worth.


I really would have a hard time ranking them... The power levels are just too unstable and we rarely get proper comparisons.
But I'd say Gildartz and Makarov are on top, with Makarov slightly ahead (he's the master for a reason, I guess) and Laxus is stronger than Erza when it comes to pure power but overall they are pretty evenly matched.

I really wouldn't take any Wizard Saint titles in consideration here as we don't know how they are distributed... obviously Gildartz should have one if it is merely "he is super powerful".


Anyway, new chapter!

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Stuff happens! People die! Secrets are revealed! Woohoo! The future is ruled by dragons. (Where are dragon slayers if you need them?)

[DarkEternal]

Naturally, the question everyone wants to know is - just how strong is the old dude with a little birdy on his bald head that's in the council?

[lord_khaine]

2. Gildartz has control (that's why he isn't a walking dustclone). However, if you have a dial going form 0 to 10 or 0 to 10000000000000000, any waver in control has a different effect. That is exactly the case with Gildartz. The only reason he isn't around much is becuase he's looking for acnologia to beat the living daylights out of. he's pretty much the only person I saw successfuly walking away from a seriously fighting Natsu without even a breath spilled.

yeah, Gildartz is the strongest.

No, when you accidentially break towns you dont have control, you have the opposite of it.
And he isnt going to beat anything out of Acnologia, last time he got seriously maimed by it, and any following encounters are only going to end up worse.

And intimidating Natsu isnt that grand of a accomplishment, considering that he wasnt even S-class at the time, let alone in the class of Hades or Bluenote.

I still personally think Gildartz is the strongest, because he's my favorite character. I figure it's less that he lacks control of his power, and more that he's just not intelligent in any way except for fighting, so he's actually the type of person who'd run into walls without thinking it.

That is unfortunately a line of reasoning thats useless when you try to debate something, because all it proves is that you like Gildarts

Now, the question of laxus vs. Erza, Probably erza will win. Why? Same reason as batman: preparation. No Fairy law won't make a difference becuase Erza is not the absolute enemy. Laxus knows Fairy Law, but has yet to use it successfully on screen (who says he didn't use it against Raven Tail?). Laxus has 1 element, erza has whatever she needs. My money is on Erza.

Actualy, outside of FT-style asspulls the Laxus vs Erza fight wouldnt even be close to fair.
Jura more or less one-shot the rival that Erza called an equal, while Laxus then beat him in a fair fight.
And earlier Erza did get brushed away by Hades, while Laxus managet to at least land some solid hits before he was also removed from the battle.

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Stuff happens! People die! Secrets are revealed! Woohoo! The future is ruled by dragons. (Where are dragon slayers if you need them?)

Proberly outnumbered around 1 to 1000 ?

[LaZodiac]

That is unfortunately a line of reasoning thats useless when you try to debate something, because all it proves is that you like Gildarts

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Proberly outnumbered around 1 to 1000 ?

Yes but this is Fairy Tail, friendship power is the best against everything but Apocolypse Dragon. So my like of Gildartz makes him stronger! Assumidly

Also, yes, new chapter!:

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I think I was right! Future Lucy IS evil! She's SECRET EVIL, since she apparently closes Eclipse!

[lord_khaine]

Yes but this is Fairy Tail, friendship power is the best against everything but Apocolypse Dragon. So my like of Gildartz makes him stronger! Assumidly

Sorry, but this has been proven to only work for members of FT
And else, it would have made you stronger, and not Gildarts

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I think I was right! Future Lucy IS evil! She's SECRET EVIL, since she apparently closes Eclipse!

I cant even see if you are serious or not here...

[Forum Explorer]

So the question is why or how Lucy closes the gate? Sounds almost by accident so I bet that using her power actually closes it if she's in the wrong location.

[LaZodiac]

Sorry, but this has been proven to only work for members of FT
And else, it would have made you stronger, and not Gildarts

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I cant even see if you are serious or not here...

I'm just joking around with that. Though I do like the idea of someone secretly being evil, so secret even they don't know it.

So the question is why or how Lucy closes the gate? Sounds almost by accident so I bet that using her power actually closes it if she's in the wrong location.

My guess is that simply being near that huge flux of magic makes the spirits, who love her, try to close the door to prevent her from the draining effects or something.

Like, being near the door when it opens drains a large amount of magic, enough to maybe even kill you, and the spirits would rather risk their own lives to protect Lucy's, since she's like the best spirit caller ever or something.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I figure Markarov is probably the best "on paper" due to the wide variety of magic he knows. He's been Worfed even worse then Erza a few too many times though and I expect the story to keep playing the old man card on him. He seems to lack the actual stamina to sustain battle and has lost "the edge" too. So his combat ability should probably be considered lower.

Gildarts is probably highest in pure combat power ability, less varied then Markarov but excepting maybe Fairy Law it doesn't matter. Course I doubt he will *ever* be around long.

After that probably Laxus, but Erza can probably fight him evenly being 120% badass. Natsu in serious/dragon/BS/protagonist mode is here too. Mirajane is somewhere in rounds out our S-class tier.

Next down we've got Gajeel, Grey, normal Natsu, Luvia, and the Rajin team who are all respectable and badass but not definitely a step down for now.

Lord only knows on Mavis fits into this and what she can still pull off despite being "dead" or whatever.

[Kato]

I'm just joking around with that. Though I do like the idea of someone secretly being evil, so secret even they don't know it.

But doesn't that make them... not evil? Okay, I guess we'd get way off-topic if we seriously discuss this. Though, if anyone is going to be "secretly evil" it's RogueSting.

My guess is that simply being near that huge flux of magic makes the spirits, who love her, try to close the door to prevent her from the draining effects or something.

I was considering she might have closed the door not on purpose but... well, as a side effect or something. Like either Ecilpse Cannon would have destroyed someone dear to her as well, or as you say, it's just an accident. But from what Lucy said she wasn't even aware it happened... or something along those lines?
Oh, or the obvious solution: They wanted to sacrifice Lucy (or whatshernameStellarMage) to open the door and someone interfered.

Lord only knows on Mavis fits into this and what she can still pull off despite being "dead" or whatever.

Uhm... well, she did save the bunch of them back on Tenryuo... so she can work magic even as a ghost. And maybe she's even immortal or... something and can use as much magic as she wants... Or Hiro doesn't care and just does what's funny.

[Hopeless]

Okay that came out of nowhere!

The Manga

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Well Rogue sting blames Future Lucy for stopping him/them from using Eclipse to blow up the dragon horde not that he explained where the horde came from!

So he tries to kill Present Day Lucy only for Future Lucy to save her apparently dying herself but maybe just maybe Wendy remembers she can heal people to prevent that!:

Maybe more than the two of them travelled to the past but that doesn't explain why whats his name attacked Lucy after all something summoned that horde and wouldn't it make more sense to stop that instead?

The Anime

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OH! Light whatever his name blew a hole in the arena going down god knows how many feet/meters, etc and thats where the minecart and railroad came from!

Well the pair are used to getting beaten up so that explains that bit!

Hmm... interesting addition before the next episode clip!

So anyone care to guess whats really going on?

[LaZodiac]

I still contest Future Lucy is evil. I don't know how or why anymore, she just is.

Also, as much as the writing can be bad in Fairy Tail, I do think they handled Future Lucy's death very well. Like, yha, Wendy could of healed her, but then Roguesting would attack her. Point is, Fairy Tail finally had a good death scene (that won't be revoked by shinanigans).

This death scene also benefitted from Lucy not saying "you aren't allowed to cry when I die" like Erza did in her pretend death scene.

[Kato]

So he tries to kill Present Day Lucy only for Future Lucy to save her apparently dying herself but maybe just maybe Wendy remembers she can heal people to prevent that!:

Just because you are a white mage doesn't mean you know Life/Ressurrection/Raise Dead or can heal any kind of lethal injury...

Maybe more than the two of them travelled to the past but that doesn't explain why whats his name attacked Lucy after all something summoned that horde and wouldn't it make more sense to stop that instead?

Uhm... well, how would you know what summoned them or that he knows who did, if anything? The only way out he knows is stop Lucy from stopping the cannon and if I had no better way to stop 90% of humanity from dying... I'd probably try talking to her first but hey, we eed a bad guy.

OH! Light whatever his name blew a hole in the arena going down god knows how many feet/meters, etc and thats where the minecart and railroad came from!

Well the pair are used to getting beaten up so that explains that bit!

Hooray! We finally know! It's nice how we get to see a bit more of the fight and Natsu and Gajeel's banter was actually kind of funny. Still... we already know how things are going to end.

[9mm]

RE: Power discussions

There is more to a characters power than raw strength. Baccus is considered an ace mage who used a very basic magic, yet had a mastery that he could be could be considered S-class. Now how useful is that magic if it doesn't involve slapping stuff? Not much. Hell, Elfman showed off what happens when you attack the magic head on: Baccus couldn't hold out on the self inflicted damage.

Now consider this, Ezra, despite using an incredibly common magic, equip, stands out because she uses armor as well as swords and is insanely smart. her magic has nothing to do with vapor but she could figure out the mind altering effects from the moon drip within 24 hours of showing up. Now did pandemonium fall straight into her area of expertise, yes it did (her rep is almost exclusively built on monster slaying), though she was also smart enough to know she could do it.

Finally the S-class is about what jobs you can take, I think we can all agree that Levy is hardly what we'd call a mage bursting with raw power, yet she was selected to take part of the S-class examination. Despite almost always part of a trio, Levy the bookworm, was considered good enough that she could possibly handle an S-class job by herself.

Add in a basic fact that almost everyone in FT is getting stronger/weaker naturally, Mirra was consider far more impressive than Ezra till her magic waned after Lissandra's "death", and you get a whole lot of blurred lines.

[Hopeless]

Just because you are a white mage doesn't mean you know Life/Ressurrection/Raise Dead or can heal any kind of lethal injury...

Mostly because Wendy did just that to Jellal on her first arc.

Uhm... well, how would you know what summoned them or that he knows who did, if anything? The only way out he knows is stop Lucy from stopping the cannon and if I had no better way to stop 90% of humanity from dying... I'd probably try talking to her first but hey, we eed a bad guy.

Given whose around her he may have thought it his only chance since it was probably Natsu that prevented Rogue-Sting from stopping Lucy travelling to the past though i bet there's someone else involved who was the one actually responsible!

Hooray! We finally know! It's nice how we get to see a bit more of the fight and Natsu and Gajeel's banter was actually kind of funny. Still... we already know how things are going to end.

I did wonder about that scene back in the manga its nice to see them clear up what actually happened the next episode or so will have Gajeel and Wendy discovering something interesting!

[Forum Explorer]

Future Lucy should die, but considering guard guy managed to walk through lava and then survive anyways, I think she's still got a pretty good chance of living.

[Kato]

Future Lucy should die, but considering guard guy managed to walk through lava and then survive anyways, I think she's still got a pretty good chance of living.

I'm... pretty sure she is dead already. Didn't her Mark vanish or something?


@Hopeless: I couldn't recall what you were talking about but a short search reminded me. Do we know for sure how dead Jellal was? There's a big difference between only mostly dead and all dead. Or in magical suspended animation dead and got a knife in her gut dead. Or Mashima forgot about that

[jindra34]

And on healing Future Lucy back to health: I doubt Rogue would let her actually do so.

[Hopeless]

And on healing Future Lucy back to health: I doubt Rogue would let her actually do so.

Either way you look at it Rogue just attacked Lucy in front of Natsu ... the words multiple nuclear warheads being detonated doesn't pose half the threat Natsu does towards Rogue at this moment so i suspect Rogue will have more important things to worry about like avoiding being beaten senseless by an enraged Natsu!