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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    To expand on Zevox's response - I'm sure you could, with sufficient luck/skill/packet retention, dance around a Gold banshee long enough to kill it with melee attacks and still "not fire a shot." But that's not really "casting" either - your powers in that event are not relevant, beyond possibly making such a suboptimal strategy go slightly faster. (e.g. a human infiltrator meleeing with cryo blast will do more damage than one meleeing without it, but that doesn't make it a caster in my eyes.)

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    I think you miss out on the eventual benefits. You get 5 of ten different items, including a guaranteed of each expendable. For the same price, you get six veteran packs, which can, if you are lucky, get you as much medigel, but could also get you none at all. Plus you arent limited to just 5; I've been getting 7-13 medigel quite consistently.
    Lucky you. I've never gotten more than 7 medigel from a single JEP, but it has happened fairly consistently at least.

    You're correct that Vet packs have a chance to give you no medigel at all (one reason I didn't recommend them), but the tradeoff there is that you have a chance, however slim, at a rare for 20k. I've never gotten a rare out of a JEP, so I don't even know if it's possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Boy is it. I've taken the fellow for a spin, and he is terrible.
    I don't think he's that bad, even now. Yeah the net is weak, but combo damage doesn't care about the damage of the base powers, only their rank. His tech burst is quite damaging. I never triggered the fire explosion myself, but that could be due to crappy aim as much as anything.

    I'm willing to forgive a lot for Vorcha healing + long-range casting, I guess. Still, can't wait until they fix it. (Literally, I can't wait. I want my Submission net challenge ASAP!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Well, the RNG spirits must be smiling on me. I got a Black Widow and an upgrade to my scorpion all in the same pack.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Even with the gimp net, I was kicking ass. Phantoms HATE it I saved the lives of many Krogan tonight.

    And for my efforts, I got my tech mastery banner, Mathemagician. I rather like it. Engineer is definitely my favorite class in ME3!

    EDIT: I also got the Piranha X. So... anyone want to trade? I can't stand the bloody thing
    Last edited by Psyren; 2012-11-16 at 12:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Aww, I love the Piranha. For its weight it seems to deal tremendous amounts of damage at close range. Once I unlock a vanguard that's not too power-dependent I intend to use it as the weapon of choice.
    Last edited by Luzahn; 2012-11-16 at 12:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Sheesh, the RNG really wants to max out my Geth Plasma Shotgun, it seems. Between yesterday and today I got three ranks in the thing - two of them in the same Premium pack, no less.

    The Scorpion is actually lighter than I thought - gives my casters 150%, or 183% with ULM I. I might actually be able to make it usable on my builds quicker than I thought.

    A question though - do the Scorpion's shots benefit from the armor-piercing mod's DR bypass effect? I know they don't benefit from the cover-piercing part, since I tried it with that mod in the single-player and couldn't hurt Guardians through their shields, but I don't know if that extends to the DR part.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Atlas is a bit harder, but why bother when an atlas is the one thing everyone focuses on. This is a team game, remember. If you absolutely must test your supremacy, get around behind it, charge into heavy melee, back up enough to prompt a melee attack, get hit, charge while it's staggered and then run behind it again.
    Yes, but then there are times when the rest of your team gets killed and you're on your own. And really, if your first answer to an enemy is "don't fight it," that seems to me be an admission that there's a hole in your character's game plan there.

    Basically, what I think Psyren and I are trying to say here is that if the build cannot reasonably fight every enemy type with its powers, it's not a caster. It may very well be able to do quite a lot with its powers, but it can't rely on them against everything. And if that's not the definition of a caster, then what is? Because what you seem to be suggesting there, that using melee and playing very carefully against enemies you can't beat with just your powers is sufficient to make a class a caster, would basically make every class a caster. Nobody is lacking for some form of damage-dealing power (if, as you've already indicated you do, you count grenades), and everybody but the Volus have melee attacks. If we define casters that broadly, what use is the term at all?

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    To expand on Zevox's response - I'm sure you could, with sufficient luck/skill/packet retention, dance around a Gold banshee long enough to kill it with melee attacks and still "not fire a shot." But that's not really "casting" either - your powers in that event are not relevant, beyond possibly making such a suboptimal strategy go slightly faster. (e.g. a human infiltrator meleeing with cryo blast will do more damage than one meleeing without it, but that doesn't make it a caster in my eyes.)
    "sufficient luck/skill"? Mate, it takes four punches to kill a banshee. That doesn't take long at all.

    And this is under the "Youre magically alone on gold with a gun you can't use for some reason, and no ammo powers" rule. You can easily just biotich charge a banshee over and over. It is boring, but possible. And again, since we've been splitting hairs back and forht, it doesn't have to be good/fast/efficient to be a caster. See the vorcha hunter

    [quote]
    Lucky you. I've never gotten more than 7 medigel from a single JEP, but it has happened fairly consistently at least.

    You're correct that Vet packs have a chance to give you no medigel at all (one reason I didn't recommend them), but the tradeoff there is that you have a chance, however slim, at a rare for 20k. I've never gotten a rare out of a JEP, so I don't even know if it's possible.[/qote]

    I would like to say that you can get rare expendables on occasion, but I have only domne so once in a pack that shouldn't have had it, so I'm not sure if it was a JEP or something else. I only rememberr that it was weird.

    I don't think he's that bad, even now. Yeah the net is weak, but combo damage doesn't care about the damage of the base powers, only their rank. His tech burst is quite damaging. I never triggered the fire explosion myself, but that could be due to crappy aim as much as anything.

    I'm willing to forgive a lot for Vorcha healing + long-range casting, I guess. Still, can't wait until they fix it. (Literally, I can't wait. I want my Submission net challenge ASAP!)
    He may do better with melee, but currently, using phalanx w/ heavy barrel, incinerate, submission net and 190%, I'm under scoring a lot. Something about himn just doesn't work for me, and I never hAave the kills to ain stacks, so I don't have good regen. He is flimsier than the trooper, so I play the trooper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Aww, I love the Piranha. For its weight it seems to deal tremendous amounts of damage at close range. Once I unlock a vanguard that's not too power-dependent I intend to use it as the weapon of choice.
    Highest DPS in the game. It's easy strett with a destroyer or geth hunter, since they up accuracy, tightening the spread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    A question though - do the Scorpion's shots benefit from the armor-piercing mod's DR bypass effect? I know they don't benefit from the cover-piercing part, since I tried it with that mod in the single-player and couldn't hurt Guardians through their shields, but I don't know if that extends to the DR part.
    They should, yes. I'm not entirely sure how to check though, since you're adding 32.5 damage to each shot.

    Yes, but then there are times when the rest of your team gets killed and you're on your own. And really, if your first answer to an enemy is "don't fight it," that seems to me be an admission that there's a hole in your character's game plan there.
    Back up and hold on. In the situation
    "you can only have a predator equipped, no mods, no allies, no bullets, no melee, no cooldown slower than 190%, on gold against a heavy and backup" yeah, you're ****ed.

    If I walk down a dark alley and get mugged, by eight knife-wielding ninjas when I'm half blind from going to the optomotrist, then I am ****ed. But that is ignoring everything considered good sense. Like not walking downa dark alley with a pocket full of cash when half blind.

    Look, heres the deal. Caster: kit that can use it's powers preedominantly to play the game without noticable detriment. You want to continue hanging qualifiers on there, go ahead, but it's getting asinine. You don't consider it a caster build? Don't play it. no skin off my nose. But this has been getting more and more penalised since inception.

    Think about it. You're saying an asari adept press-ganged by hunters isn't a caster because it can't rely on it's powers anymore. Thats also asinine.

    ly, what I think Psyren and I are trying to say here is that if the build cannot reasonably fight every enemy type with its powers, it's not a caster
    It can.

    And uh, the volus does have a melee attack.
    Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-11-16 at 05:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Ummm...I might be mistaken, but can Concussive Shot set off Fire Bursts/tech explosions? Because I seem to be doing just that with my human soldier.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Hmm, just got an N7 slayer, and they seem interesting.

    Do they have any abilities which produce biotic explosions, or is that evolution of Biotic Slash fairly useless?

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf DW View Post
    Ummm...I might be mistaken, but can Concussive Shot set off Fire Bursts/tech explosions? Because I seem to be doing just that with my human soldier.
    It can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Hmm, just got an N7 slayer, and they seem interesting.

    Do they have any abilities which produce biotic explosions, or is that evolution of Biotic Slash fairly useless?
    They can't prime them but both biotic slash and charge detonate them. Find a game with a justicar and go crazy. Phase disruptor only detonates tech/fire/cryo explosions though.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Hmm, just got an N7 slayer, and they seem interesting.

    Do they have any abilities which produce biotic explosions, or is that evolution of Biotic Slash fairly useless?
    They don't have any way to set up explosions themselves, no. It is useful when working with other biotics though.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Engineers everywhere. Got the challenge - and got Crusader VII. I may be forced to use it if they give me any more.

    First game was 3 human engineers and a QME. Against Geth. They never stood a chance.

    The second game was unusual. I'd joined the queue and got to the preparation screen when the host dropped out. I came back in and found myself the only one in the queue. Given it was only bronze (even though I was only level 9) I thought I'd start and wait for others to join. So I waited and waited and waited. Finally on wave 9 a QFI joined as well and we proceeded to extract. Can't believe I almost soloed as a lvel 9 on bronze with an Avenger.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    So I was mistaken on Recruit packs - they only give you 2 consumables. Since that means all the packs except the JEP have a chance of giving you zilch medigel, the JEP is definitely the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Back up and hold on. In the situation
    "you can only have a predator equipped, no mods, no allies, no bullets, no melee, no cooldown slower than 190%, on gold against a heavy and backup" yeah, you're ****ed.
    Dude, that's our point - a true caster would not be "****ed" in such a situation. Hell, with the majority of my caster classes I can (and have) soloed TWO banshees without firing a shot. (The tech combo changes made this a lot easier for the non-biotics, but still.) So... I'm glad we agree, I guess?

    If not, let's agree to disagree before anyone gets riled up over something so trivial.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2012-11-16 at 08:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf DW View Post
    Ummm...I might be mistaken, but can Concussive Shot set off Fire Bursts/tech explosions? Because I seem to be doing just that with my human soldier.
    Yes. It's pretty slick. With the new hammer evolution at six, you can spray a group and detonate the lot. It's awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Hmm, just got an N7 slayer, and they seem interesting.

    Do they have any abilities which produce biotic explosions, or is that evolution of Biotic Slash fairly useless?
    They aren't useless, but they cannot self combo. The large area they can target blind is an amazon asset though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So I was mistaken on Recruit packs - they only give you 2 consumables. Since that means all the packs except the JEP have a chance of giving you zilch medigel, the JEP is definitely the way to go.
    They lowered it? It did used to be three...

    Dude, that's our point - a true caster would not be "****ed" in such a situation.
    Bull. Money where your mouth is time. Pull out a caster. Predator. No ammo. Don't shoot unless absolutely forced. Solo gold.

    If you succeed? Then you're right. But artificially restricting something to two joysticks, two bumpers, Y button and left trigger doesn't prove anything.

    "Caster" is more a play style than a class function. The tests you've both proffered have nothing to do with casters, they have to do with efficiency and proficiency. That's been my dog in this fight all along. I'm
    Getting "you're wrong, because I can't do it", and then a series of successively stringent parameters which also discount your own builds to the point of being non relevant, and then those poor parameters are treated as truth.

    I got from wave 1 on gold to wave 4, human infiltrator, no shots fired. Solo. I've gotten as far as wave 10, solo, gold, no shots fired (rockets are shots). None of that is relevant.

    Saying that any particular thing is disqualified as a caster due to an arbitrarily bad set up proves nothing. Just like my geth hunter example you don't play real casters, because four hunters press ganging you will prevent you from surviving on powers alone. Except that doesn't make any sense. My saying "if you are hamstringed beyond use you are doomed" is an acknowledgement of being hamstringed, not of being insufficient as a caster load out.

    Can you use only powers without detriment as a batarian brawler? Yes. Specifics not required.

    Can you use only powers without detriment as a batarian brawler? Not relevant to said class' status as a caster. Specifics not required.

    If not, let's agree to disagree before anyone gets riled up over something so trivial.
    I have no problem disagreeing. I do have a problem being falsely condemned and ignored when I make an appeal.
    Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-11-16 at 10:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    If not, let's agree to disagree before anyone gets riled up over something so trivial.
    Yeah, I was going to have more to say on the subject myself, but looking over where this stands now, I think that's the best course of action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzhan
    Hmm, just got an N7 slayer, and they seem interesting.

    Do they have any abilities which produce biotic explosions, or is that evolution of Biotic Slash fairly useless?
    They can't cause detonations on their own, but that evolution is far from useless. Pretty much any ally with biotics will be priming their targets, allowing you to detonate them, and that evolution makes detonations much more potent. Biotic combos where both powers involved have the Detonate evolution are the single highest damage thing in the game (short of high-powered sniper rifle headshots with a bunch of damage boosts - i.e. Tactical Cloak, expendables, etc - stacked on), and they've got a large AoE to boot.

    And you will be using Biotic Slash a lot - it's an amazing power, with the ability to go through walls like shockwave but a longer range and much more hitting power. On some maps a Slayer can pretty much make king-of-the-hill objectives a breeze just by spamming Biotic Slash through walls in the direction enemies are coming from.

    Zevox
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    [Incendiary power] rank six and either snap freeze or electric slash rank six (+100% combo evolution) is the strongest non-ridonkulous combination in the game, edging out biotics by half again as much damage, and a slightly larger area.

    Pull + shockwave is the technically superior power, but I think the raw damage from the explosion at 240% still doesn't make it, given that a fire explosion is equal in immediate damage to a biotic one, gains the original +100%, and then deals half as much over time as well.

    Based on various factors, fire Bursts can now be even with or exceed biotic bursts. The paladin is capable of achieving them independently, making his burst damage superior to any adept. The original target may not take the extra damage over time however, that may only apply to those struck by shrapnel. This would make biotics slightly better at single target elimination, but not by much without access to both pull and throw.

    That would be a fun class. Turian adept. Pull, throw, and whatever the Turian who helps Aria has.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Hmm, initially I have been neglecting biotic slash in favor of melee damage. Maybe I should switch out something...

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    [Incendiary power] rank six and either snap freeze or electric slash rank six (+100% combo evolution) is the strongest non-ridonkulous combination in the game, edging out biotics by half again as much damage, and a slightly larger area.
    I don't think Snap Freeze can detonate, can it? I've never been able to get it to detonate Fire Bursts with the Paladin's Incinerate.

    Wasn't aware that Electric Slash had that evolution as well, either, since I haven't unlocked the Shadow. My apologies.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    So much drama. "Condemned?" Yeah, I'm bowing out here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I don't think Snap Freeze can detonate, can it? I've never been able to get it to detonate Fire Bursts with the Paladin's Incinerate.
    Yep, SF can detonate. It always felt weird to me setting off a fire explosion with a blast of supercool gas, but I'm willing to overlook science for dead reapers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I don't think Snap Freeze can detonate, can it? I've never been able to get it to detonate Fire Bursts with the Paladin's Incinerate.

    Wasn't aware that Electric Slash had that evolution as well, either, since I haven't unlocked the Shadow. My apologies.

    Zevox
    It reacts strangely with protections, admittedly. It's also possible to hit an enemy with incinerate, hit them with a detonator (to no effect), and then they are primed with fire. Where cryoblast was having problems pages ago, I found snap freeze much friendlier.

    Also, I don't know if I posted this yet, but cryoblast rank 5 evolution "cryo explosion" or whatever. It says that it causes 10% more damage to frozen or chilled enemies. I noticed that with that evolution selected, I could reliably get cryobursts from straight melee or gunfire upon target death. It's possible that specific evolution overrides how cryo explosions work. It is also a no-brained on powers taken, so that may be the root of cryoblast not acting as intended.

    Electric slash and snap freeze both getting the +100% was a big deal, I thought you'd commented on it previously. I also thought you had a shadow though, so I'm probably conflating you with another poster.

    From raw numbers, fire explosions originally had the smallest area and were tied with biotic explosions for damage, with an additional 50% over time. Being able to double biotics (along with biotics being second-biggest) made them clearly superior. The biggest nerf was cutting the are down so drastically. The radius is now comparable, but biotics still come out ahead (I think?) in acute damage, because the powers involved tend to do more actual damage. Warp's effects in particular tear apart enemy defenses.

    I also find on detonator builds that DoT is sort of pointless. Sure, fire bursts are eventually stronger, but odds are I'll hit them with another explosion before that damage comes to pass. *shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So much drama. "Condemned?" Yeah, I'm bowing out here.
    "It meets all qualifications but doesn't qualify" is the issue. I assumed using the word appeal would reveal the motif? It's a lot of exasperated, but it's still just exasperation.

    Yep, SF can detonate. It always felt weird to me setting off a fire explosion with a blast of supercool gas, but I'm willing to overlook science for dead reapers.
    Can snap freeze prime? I would like to test out the capacity of snap freeze -> electric slash, although from memory the cryo burst won't be sufficient to really make it worthwhile.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Can snap freeze prime? I would like to test out the capacity of snap freeze -> electric slash, although from memory the cryo burst won't be sufficient to really make it worthwhile.
    Snap freeze can prime and is pretty good at it too.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    It reacts strangely with protections, admittedly. It's also possible to hit an enemy with incinerate, hit them with a detonator (to no effect), and then they are primed with fire. Where cryoblast was having problems pages ago, I found snap freeze much friendlier.
    Weird. I've honestly tried to get Incinerate -> Snap Freeze to work on numerous occasions, because of that evolution to Snap Freeze and recalling that fire bursts are technically the strongest burst in base damage, but it has never once worked for me. I guess I need to keep trying then, see if I can figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Also, I don't know if I posted this yet, but cryoblast rank 5 evolution "cryo explosion" or whatever. It says that it causes 10% more damage to frozen or chilled enemies. I noticed that with that evolution selected, I could reliably get cryobursts from straight melee or gunfire upon target death. It's possible that specific evolution overrides how cryo explosions work. It is also a no-brained on powers taken, so that may be the root of cryoblast not acting as intended.
    Hm, so that evolution is the source of some of the weirdness there eh? That sucks, since it's the obvious choice for the power. Must be a bug though, so hopefully we'll get a fix for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Electric slash and snap freeze both getting the +100% was a big deal, I thought you'd commented on it previously. I also thought you had a shadow though, so I'm probably conflating you with another poster.
    Nope, I haven't. I didn't know either of them had that until I unlocked the Paladin just recently, and I don't think I posted about that particular part of Snap Freeze. And as I said, no Shadow - that and the Fury are the classes I'm currently trying to unlock by focusing on the Earth DLC when buying packs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Can snap freeze prime? I would like to test out the capacity of snap freeze -> electric slash, although from memory the cryo burst won't be sufficient to really make it worthwhile.
    Yep, Snap Freeze can very much so prime. Snap Freeze -> Incinerate or Energy Drain has been my main tactic on my Paladin, and it works damn well. On silver Snap Freeze -> Energy Drain by itself kills any mook with shields - Centurion, Rocket Geth, etc - except for possessed Collectors, and it's still a ton of damage to them. It also takes out Phantoms, and it seems as though they can't put up their power barrier in reaction to it - I've never once seen them do so against Snap Freeze, and for some reason they never do so against Energy Drain when it's detonating a cryo burst, even though they can do so at other times.

    I've only taken the class on gold once, though, and can't recall if those held true there.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    I also find on detonator builds that DoT is sort of pointless. Sure, fire bursts are eventually stronger, but odds are I'll hit them with another explosion before that damage comes to pass. *shrug*
    If you hit them again, does the DoT stack or reset its duration? I recall the "rolling ignites" of early-BC-WoW, and wonder if we have a similar situation here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Can snap freeze prime? I would like to test out the capacity of snap freeze -> electric slash, although from memory the cryo burst won't be sufficient to really make it worthwhile.
    Not only does it prime, it can prime multiple targets at once. Even targets that are merely chilled (i.e. protected ones) are primed. I've filled entire hallways with a hail of razor-sharp shards thanks to area incinerate.

    Damage-wise I agree that it is weaker than fire/biotic explosion - but I don't mind because (a) it still hits pretty hard, (b) it's a lot more reliable and (c) the explosion itself will also chill/freeze. A Paladin can hold a chokepoint by himself very easily because the stream of enemies will end up bogged down in all the snow he ends up creating.

    Detonating with ED is harder for them though - it seems to only detonate enemies it can actually drain, i.e. primed synthetics or primed enemies that have some shield/barrier left.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Damage-wise I agree that it is weaker than fire/biotic explosion
    Honestly, I'm not even sure of that, at least if we're talking biotic combos without detonate and fire bursts without the double-damage evolution. The damage they do seems pretty comparable to those at the least. I'd actually be curious to see the numbers on each type of burst's damage so we could check such a thing more precisely.

    Anyway, couple of things I did tonight. Tested Singularity -> Warp -> Shockwave on my Human Adept, did not get a biotic combo out of the Shockwave. So Warp must not prime when detonating. Bit of a pity, but I can understand it, given how potent getting two combos in such quick succession solo would be.

    Also respecced my Human Engineer to try his drone with chain lightning instead of the rocket. The result... eh. I honestly don't know if it's helping or not. Sometimes it seems like it might be being more effective, other times it seems just as weak as always. Really just don't know about that power on the whole, honestly. I also tried Overload with neural shock for the first time, and I don't particularly like it. It doesn't seem to stun for meaningfully longer than the normal shock effect does, and it drops the enemy prone to the ground, making them a bit harder to hit than when they just stay standing from the normal effect. Also, it seems to only affect the primary target, which I didn't expect.

    I did try to test Incinerate -> Snap Freeze with the Paladin, but I almost never got a clear chance to do so. Naturally, while I had some awful teams the rest of the night, that match I happened to have a team that was very good at killing things I was trying to test that on before I could get the test done. Up to an including Geth Primes. The few times I did get a shot, though, it didn't seem to work...

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Honestly, I'm not even sure of that, at least if we're talking biotic combos without detonate and fire bursts without the double-damage evolution. The damage they do seems pretty comparable to those at the least. I'd actually be curious to see the numbers on each type of burst's damage so we could check such a thing more precisely.
    All we had were multipliers, without a base. The base was defined per enemy and difficulty, but no one could really locate it. Until we know the actual numerical result, we can't be sure how much a doubling would....

    Actually that's stupid. We could just double the one variable we have.

    I did try to test Incinerate -> Snap Freeze with the Paladin, but I almost never got a clear chance to do so. Naturally, while I had some awful teams the rest of the night, that match I happened to have a team that was very good at killing things I was trying to test that on before I could get the test done. Up to an including Geth Primes. The few times I did get a shot, though, it didn't seem to work...

    Zevox
    The best way to check is a solo run.

    Ah, cryoblast. I don't know that cryo explosion works that way, it's just a possibility based on being able to cause cryo explosions with cryoblast and a predator. I haven't been able to check in any meaningful way.
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Snap Freeze is the best primer for cryo explosions in the game, for one simple reason: it primes targets for explosions regardless of whether they're frozen or merely chilled. Given it hits three targets, that's three cryo explosions set up each casting.

    Combine with a character who has full chain Overload to hit three targets...

    The combination is so devastating that me and a friend often use it to farm Glacier/Geth/Gold.

    Video of this setup available here.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Thought: ammo effects count as powers, at least as far as set up goes. It's possible they also count as powers in general. I know disruptor ammo and warp ammo were theorized (or known, but I can't trust my source without verification) to be different from standard ammo in that they delivers their payload before bullet damage was delivered - this was one of the keys to the supposed one-shot kill on full health primes and banshees, since the disruptor round would deliver it's portion of the damage (magnified against barriers) before the bullet damage, circumventing the 100% shield gate cut-off.

    I've never witnessed this phenomenon but had several people swear by it.

    It's possible my cryo explosions were because I was using disruptor ammo. If it delivers a shock, separate from the bullet before the bullet damage, then it's possible the game registered electric damage on a cryo-primed enemy and followed the logic of 'electricity detonates powers'.

    Entirely surmise and requires actual testing. Thoughts?

    -

    How fast do you farm gold? Because I've found platinum to take the same time, maybe 30% longer, and yield over double the credits.

    Ooh, and it also gives even more points now. Maybe spectre mastery isn't so far off? N7 first, though. Only other one I've seen with a cool banner.
    And myN7 Alliance day challenge banner has disappeared. What gives?
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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    How fast do you farm gold? Because I've found platinum to take the same time, maybe 30% longer, and yield over double the credits.

    Ooh, and it also gives even more points now. Maybe spectre mastery isn't so far off? N7 first, though. Only other one I've seen with a cool banner.
    And myN7 Alliance day challenge banner has disappeared. What gives?
    In all honesty, it's not very fast, about 20 to 23 minutes depending on the classes and skill of the other players, but it's pretty damn safe, arguably moreso than White/G/G was, because at least other players don't hug the counters when objectives come up.

    And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'm cut out for Platinum yet.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Also respecced my Human Engineer to try his drone with chain lightning instead of the rocket. The result... eh. I honestly don't know if it's helping or not. Sometimes it seems like it might be being more effective, other times it seems just as weak as always. Really just don't know about that power on the whole, honestly. I also tried Overload with neural shock for the first time, and I don't particularly like it. It doesn't seem to stun for meaningfully longer than the normal shock effect does, and it drops the enemy prone to the ground, making them a bit harder to hit than when they just stay standing from the normal effect. Also, it seems to only affect the primary target, which I didn't expect.
    This goes back to the conversation you and I had way back when we were starting out MP. Engineers are "status casters" - for max dps you're expected to be firing your weapon continuously during cooldowns. Stunning and ragdolling the crap out of your targets means you can pump out a steady stream of headshots, and if you're not doing so you won't be quite as impressed with the results. Specifically, the purpose behind Neural Shock and your Drone is to harass/stagger/interrupt enemies, making them easy prey for your bullets. If you want a high-damage drone, stick with rockets and the damage evolutions, and drop it next to you rather than next to the enemy.

    Having said that, the tech combo changes make it much easier for Engineers to rely on powers alone, but even then you want to be shooting where possible (and where doing so won't have you eating return fire.)

    Adepts meanwhile get much better results without having to aim or even really shoot that much. Though here again, shooting a Warped/DC'ed/Reaved target between cooldowns, particularly one with armor, yields great results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I did try to test Incinerate -> Snap Freeze with the Paladin, but I almost never got a clear chance to do so. Naturally, while I had some awful teams the rest of the night, that match I happened to have a team that was very good at killing things I was trying to test that on before I could get the test done. Up to an including Geth Primes. The few times I did get a shot, though, it didn't seem to work...
    First sign you're ready for Gold - when you play Silver and everyone seems to suck but you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Entirely surmise and requires actual testing. Thoughts?
    I don't think they do, at least not in all respects. I know this because during the Fire challenge, my incendiary ammo didn't give me a single point towards the reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    How fast do you farm gold? Because I've found platinum to take the same time, maybe 30% longer, and yield over double the credits.

    Ooh, and it also gives even more points now. Maybe spectre mastery isn't so far off? N7 first, though. Only other one I've seen with a cool banner.
    And myN7 Alliance day challenge banner has disappeared. What gives?
    I definitely like Platinum's payout, but I'm just leery about playing in games where people are rampantly exploiting. Gold is more fun for me since nobody is really "farming" - they're just playing the game normally, just with way more skill and rockets than the Silver peeps. The one trick I'm okay with is the Rio crate, since we generally have to leave it for missions, but anything involving infinite rockets or glitching the monster pathfinding isn't kosher for me.
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    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    This goes back to the conversation you and I had way back when we were starting out MP. Engineers are "status casters" - for max dps you're expected to be firing your weapon continuously during cooldowns. Stunning and ragdolling the crap out of your targets means you can pump out a steady stream of headshots, and if you're not doing so you won't be quite as impressed with the results. Specifically, the purpose behind Neural Shock and your Drone is to harass/stagger/interrupt enemies, making them easy prey for your bullets. If you want a high-damage drone, stick with rockets and the damage evolutions, and drop it next to you rather than next to the enemy.
    But as I said, Neural Shock doesn't seem to stun for meaningfully longer than Overload already does anyway, and dropping them prone actually makes it harder to follow up than normal. Overload followed by spraying enemies with bullets is something I do on my Human Engineer and Turian Sentinel - especially the latter, since he can't self-combo - but that evolution seems if anything a little detrimental to that.

    As for the Drone, honestly I'd just like an evolution that makes it fire more often. That seems to be its biggest problem: it only actually does anything occasionally, whether I give it rockets or shock. Compared to the Quarian and Geth turrets, it just feels like it isn't helping at all most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    First sign you're ready for Gold - when you play Silver and everyone seems to suck but you.
    As I've said, I do play gold, just only when I want to make money faster. It's a matter of personal preference for the less challenging difficulty, not a matter of being worried that I can't handle the more challenging one.

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    Default Re: Mass Effect 3.7: "That was for Thane"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    But as I said, Neural Shock doesn't seem to stun for meaningfully longer than Overload already does anyway, and dropping them prone actually makes it harder to follow up than normal.
    It also makes the stun more likely to occur - this is most easily observed on charging Dragoons, or "stompers" that are already standing over a fallen ally. It also takes them longer to get up from prone than it does to recover from a stagger.

    In any event, I find the other evolution (cooldown?) in that slot isn't very useful anyway with my cooldowns already at 200%

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    As for the Drone, honestly I'd just like an evolution that makes it fire more often. That seems to be its biggest problem: it only actually does anything occasionally, whether I give it rockets or shock. Compared to the Quarian and Geth turrets, it just feels like it isn't helping at all most of the time.
    Yeah, I'd love this too. I will note though that, for a shock/CL drone, resummoning it on a foe typically makes it shock immediately, similar to how the supply pylon immediately spits out grenades when you resummon that. I typically use this on an advancing Atlas or Prime so I can fall back to cover further away.

    The rocket drone I'm less experienced with - I'm going to give it a spin on a sniper-y build with the Viper (or Indra once I get it higher.)
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    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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