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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    I just figured he didn't want to take the chance the Stun thing would short the Bomb thing down.

    Also, as I watched this, my hope for the Robocop remake died.. in my arms .. tonight.

    I mean, as a mechnical man with cool toys. The Ironman franchise has him beat out.

    As a immovable agent of justice, let me just say.. during some of the scenes Dredd was walking though the shadows. His sillouette looked strikingly like Murphy's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
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    (Perhaps more puzzling was that they just abandoned their miniguns after using them once.)
    I think the reason is...

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    ...Ma-Ma realized the mini-guns killed a great deal of her own people/tenants/customers and failed at the one thing they were SUPPOSED to do, which was kill Dredd and Anderson. Shooting up more parts of the block like that would kind of damage their profits, and despite her psychotic attitude, Ma-Ma is, at her core, a businesswoman.

    In addition, transporting the guns up to another floor would have taken time and effort that simply wasn't viable with the Judges continuing to ascend. After all, the only reason they used the mini-guns in the first place was because they had them trapped on that floor long enough for them to set them up and use. Locking down other parts of the building wouldn't have been as effective because Dredd and Anderson would know to keep on the move to avoid getting pinned like that a second time, as well as the fact that most of the time, Ma-Ma's crew didn't even know where Dredd and Anderson were. Hard to use a minigun on a moving target. Even more so when you can't find said target.

    Saw the movie yesterday and I loved it! I agree with you guys that it really captured the feel of Judge Dredd and moreover I feel it felt like a moving comic book, especially during the Slo-Mo scenes.
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    I hate the fact this film is bombing. I so want there to be sequels.
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    Saw it and ...didn't like it. Honestly my only problem is the fact that I wasn't really sold on Dredd being this ultra hardcore badass.

    I mean, the other judges SAY he's great, but he has to be saved the one time a bullet connects with him.

    Likewise, his actions never really have consequences. I mean Anderson had to deal with the people she shot and all, but Dredd doesn't. I mean like, the guy in the opening with a hostage: You can't just shoot a guy with a hostage with a slower acting weapon and expect everything to be fine. I'd be ok if the hostage died, and I'd be ok if the guy got away somehow, but he shouldn't be able to have his cake and eat it too. This happens on a much bigger scale in the end. Dredd gambles with the lives of innocents and never even comes close to paying the price even once.

    The biggest disappointment with the Medic though. Dredd never had to deal with someone refusing to help a Judge. I mean one assumes there's a law on that but the guy kind of died before the problem became a huge one.

    The whole thing was soured even more by adding slow-mo to the fall at the end. That was just kind of petty to me.


    I haven't read the comic, but Dredd was always described to me as being this supercool badass, while the movie makes him look like a petty jerk with a big gun.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    Saw it and ...didn't like it. Honestly my only problem is the fact that I wasn't really sold on Dredd being this ultra hardcore badass.
    What movie were you watching? The whole film is Dredd being a total badass! He's in a hostile complex taking fire from all directions, and he's able to come up with plans lightning fast and take control of and situation. Look at his body count at the end of the film!

    I mean, the other judges SAY he's great, but he has to be saved the one time a bullet connects with him.
    You mean when he gets shot in the torso and is low on ammo? Who wouldn't need to be saved from that situation? Not to mention the wound doesn't even slow him down. He just takes out a first aid kit, staples the wound closed, and walks away like nothing happened. Badass! Not to mention, we see him be badass throughout the earlier and later parts of the film. Need I mention again his body count? The other judges say he's badass and we see him be badass.

    Likewise, his actions never really have consequences. I mean Anderson had to deal with the people she shot and all, but Dredd doesn't. I mean like, the guy in the opening with a hostage: You can't just shoot a guy with a hostage with a slower acting weapon and expect everything to be fine. I'd be ok if the hostage died, and I'd be ok if the guy got away somehow, but he shouldn't be able to have his cake and eat it too. This happens on a much bigger scale in the end. Dredd gambles with the lives of innocents and never even comes close to paying the price even once.
    That's because he's so in control of what's going to happen. He's not reckless because he knows what's going to happen based on his experience. He's calculated the risk and knows it will turn out fine.

    The whole thing was soured even more by adding slow-mo to the fall at the end. That was just kind of petty to me.
    That was kind of the point. It's a drug that enhances reality and we see that. This is one of those hauntingly beautiful moments in fiction. What we're seeing is really pretty, but in reality it's quite terrifying and the fact it looks so pretty makes it even more terrifying.

    I haven't read the comic, but Dredd was always described to me as being this supercool badass, while the movie makes him look like a petty jerk with a big gun.
    Petty? How is he petty? All his actions are done to uphold justice and enforce the law. Nothing he does is about him overreacting to some minor offense to him. The whole film people are trying to kill him - what's petty about taking out people that are actively trying to kill you? Not to mention, he does act somewhat civil in certain parts. The part at the beginning with the hostage, he does give the guy an option between death and imprisonment. Also, the part where the two kids have him at gun point, again, he could kill them and law couldn't punish Dredd, but he decides to spare them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    I mean, the other judges SAY he's great, but he has to be saved the one time a bullet connects with him.

    Dredd is badass for being in control, for being precise and tactical at all times. When confronted by a dozen armed gunmen, he takes the appropriate action and then dispatches them with one or two bullets each, never missing.

    Dredd is a well-programmed aimbot, essentially. No fear, no mistakes, just cold and effective tactics. He performs exactly one unprofessional act: Giving slo-mo to Ma Ma before executing her (Which, to be fair, he has every right to be really, really angry with Ma Ma.)The essential horror of the world is not the evil that Dredd fights against, but that the circumstances are such that Dredd is needed.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Gonna echo Dr. Epic here, bwuh? I mean I get not liking it, sure, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz. But...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    I mean, the other judges SAY he's great, but he has to be saved the one time a bullet connects with him.
    He went two on one against judges that are just as well trained as he is, with only one bullet, and still manages to kill one of them. Even then he manages to avoid his other opponent, up until that opponent decides to hell with it and just shoots through the wall he's hiding behind. This is after the entire rest of the movie where he takes down everyone, everywhere without even getting nicked. And this is after already piecing together that he was being double-crossed by a very minor slip of the tongue. Dredd ran on badass the entire movie, out planning, out gunning, and out killing anyone onscreen.

    Likewise, his actions never really have consequences. I mean Anderson had to deal with the people she shot and all, but Dredd doesn't. I mean like, the guy in the opening with a hostage: You can't just shoot a guy with a hostage with a slower acting weapon and expect everything to be fine. I'd be ok if the hostage died, and I'd be ok if the guy got away somehow, but he shouldn't be able to have his cake and eat it too. This happens on a much bigger scale in the end. Dredd gambles with the lives of innocents and never even comes close to paying the price even once.

    The biggest disappointment with the Medic though. Dredd never had to deal with someone refusing to help a Judge. I mean one assumes there's a law on that but the guy kind of died before the problem became a huge one.

    The whole thing was soured even more by adding slow-mo to the fall at the end. That was just kind of petty to me.
    Dredd is not a good guy. In fact he's more like the Punisher/Javert whose been sanctioned by the government. A large part of the comics is based around the fact that he's essentially the head enforcer/executioner of a fascist dictatorship. The perp who had the hostage was going to die, Dredd was going to kill him, that was that. Honestly, he might not have even cared if the girl died in the process so long as he got his perp. But in any case, I believe the purpose of using the Hotshot was that it would instantly fry the man's spinal cord so he could not have killed the girl even if it took him a bit longer to die. Now, that makes him seem like an evil **** when stated that way, but he's not. His heroics come from his absolute determination to do what he feels is right given the above parameters (basically that means following the law, but not always), and that he does not stop, ever. Also it's (mostly) taken for granted in his world that Democracy was a failed experiment that caused a lot of problems.

    Now unfortunately, with this character there's not a lot of room for character development. Oh he gets some in the comics, but it's slow going. And he got some in this movie too, mostly centered around his opinion of Anderson and a glimmer of bending the law. But as to dealing with the consequences of his actions, there's not a lot that would faze him. He is the law, if the law says someone is to be punished by death, then that is that and nothing will get in the way of justice. The girl could have died and he wouldn't have minded. He'd probably just send the medic to whatever the prison was called. And I'll admit, he probably should have stunned Ma-ma and brought her in so they can figure out what the actual range was and/or how to detach it before killing her. But, I think the point was Dredd had already figured out that it was only a short range signal device and it wouldn't work and was just telling her how her plan was going to fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    Now unfortunately, with this character there's not a lot of room for character development. Oh he gets some in the comics, but it's slow going. And he got some in this movie too, mostly centered around his opinion of Anderson and a glimmer of bending the law.
    Yeah, 90% of the character development in this film (and possibly in the comics?) is on the part of Anderson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post


    Dredd is not a good guy. In fact he's more like the Punisher/Javert whose been sanctioned by the government. A large part of the comics is based around the fact that he's essentially the head enforcer/executioner of a fascist dictatorship. The perp who had the hostage was going to die, Dredd was going to kill him, that was that. Honestly, he might not have even cared if the girl died in the process so long as he got his perp.

    Then show the perp dying.
    I mean don't just tell me he would have done it. If he's going to constantly walk into these situations, have him face some damned consequences instead of having it be resolved so neatly.

    But in any case, I believe the purpose of using the Hotshot was that it would instantly fry the man's spinal cord so he could not have killed the girl even if it took him a bit longer to die. Now, that makes him seem like an evil **** when stated that way, but he's not. His heroics come from his absolute determination to do what he feels is right given the above parameters (basically that means following the law, but not always), and that he does not stop, ever. Also it's (mostly) taken for granted in his world that Democracy was a failed experiment that caused a lot of problems.
    Democracy has nothing to do with it. The problem is that the people behind the movie wanted to have their cake and eat it too. He didn't come off as evil, he came off as a contrived mess. Again, I'd be able to accept it if he'd actually gotten them both killed and they'd addressed that, but he didn't and they didn't need to address it.

    Now unfortunately, with this character there's not a lot of room for character development. Oh he gets some in the comics, but it's slow going. And he got some in this movie too, mostly centered around his opinion of Anderson and a glimmer of bending the law. But as to dealing with the consequences of his actions, there's not a lot that would faze him. He is the law, if the law says someone is to be punished by death, then that is that and nothing will get in the way of justice. The girl could have died and he wouldn't have minded. He'd probably just send the medic to whatever the prison was called. And I'll admit, he probably should have stunned Ma-ma and brought her in so they can figure out what the actual range was and/or how to detach it before killing her. But, I think the point was Dredd had already figured out that it was only a short range signal device and it wouldn't work and was just telling her how her plan was going to fail.
    The problem is you keep saying he would have and could have this or that. He didn't. This wasn't addressed. This wasn't character development either way. It wasn't even establishing all things considered. I mean if he'd just gotten the girl killed and not even cared that would be fine but he got to save the girl without compromising and it felt silly and contrived.

    Have him be an unflinching bastion of the law he upholds who never compromises no matter the cost. Make him someone unfazed by the gore around him.

    Or have him be a caring person who is willing to bend the rules to minimize bodycounts. Make him someone who cares enough to do the job and make it work the way he thinks it needs to.

    But don't let him act like the first and get the results of the second. That's just kind of blatantly a power fantasy and nothing else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post

    Then show the perp dying.
    I mean don't just tell me he would have done it. If he's going to constantly walk into these situations, have him face some damned consequences instead of having it be resolved so neatly.
    The perp did die.

    Democracy has nothing to do with it. The problem is that the people behind the movie wanted to have their cake and eat it too. He didn't come off as evil, he came off as a contrived mess. Again, I'd be able to accept it if he'd actually gotten them both killed and they'd addressed that, but he didn't and they didn't need to address it.
    The democracy thing was in relation to why he's a fascist. I don't know exactly what you're saying here though. I think you're talking about the ending. He gives his reason for why he's pretty damn sure that the bomb won't do a thing right before he pushes her to her death. He ends up being right. Ok. Honestly we so almost all action heroes pull stunts like this, so I don't see the problem.

    The problem is you keep saying he would have and could have this or that. He didn't. This wasn't addressed. This wasn't character development either way. It wasn't even establishing all things considered. I mean if he'd just gotten the girl killed and not even cared that would be fine but he got to save the girl without compromising and it felt silly and contrived.
    He was completely apathetic about the guy who was run over, and doesn't bat an eye (poor metaphor I think, considering his helmet) when he sees innocents dead, crushed, and killed. And when he saves the girl he only grunts at her thanks. He saves one girl with a shot that

    Have him be an unflinching bastion of the law he upholds who never compromises no matter the cost. Make him someone unfazed by the gore around him.
    He was unfazed by the gore.

    Or have him be a caring person who is willing to bend the rules to minimize bodycounts. Make him someone who cares enough to do the job and make it work the way he thinks it needs to.

    But don't let him act like the first and get the results of the second. That's just kind of blatantly a power fantasy and nothing else.
    Wait so you're saying that if you want the guy to be completely stone cold "the law" then you don't want him to be successful? Ok, yeah, that's not Dredd. Dredd is the legend of Mega City One because he makes walking the line work. Not 100%, I mean how many innocents died in this movie? I think three in the first scene alone. Is his success a bit contrived? Well duh, it's a comic book, if you want to break it down it makes about as much sense as the fact none of Superman's bouts of kindness come back to bite him in the arse. Of course, like Superman sometimes they do, and those can make for some good stories, but this one we got was just as simple introduction to Dredd. He's the badass of Mega City One who through strictly following the law manages to make it a slightly safer place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    The perp did die.
    The Hostage did not. That's the thing. Dredd can kill the perp, but it shouldn't be so cut and dry. Every time he has something ambiguous(a hostage situation, being denied by a needed medic, arresting a homeless man for not being able to afford a home), the plot cuts that off before it could potentially turn ugly.

    The democracy thing was in relation to why he's a fascist. I don't know exactly what you're saying here though. I think you're talking about the ending. He gives his reason for why he's pretty damn sure that the bomb won't do a thing right before he pushes her to her death. He ends up being right. Ok. Honestly we so almost all action heroes pull stunts like this, so I don't see the problem.
    The idea that everybody else is doing it makes it ok is asinine. A good director should be better than that logic.


    He was completely apathetic about the guy who was run over, and doesn't bat an eye (poor metaphor I think, considering his helmet) when he sees innocents dead, crushed, and killed. And when he saves the girl he only grunts at her thanks. He saves one girl with a shot that


    He was unfazed by the gore.
    He wasn't weeping, but he did go "They killed an innocent!" for a second there. I mean considering they were firing at a Judge already there wasn't any bigger sentence so that didn't need to be added.

    Wait so you're saying that if you want the guy to be completely stone cold "the law" then you don't want him to be successful? Ok, yeah, that's not Dredd. Dredd is the legend of Mega City One because he makes walking the line work. Not 100%, I mean how many innocents died in this movie? I think three in the first scene alone. Is his success a bit contrived? Well duh, it's a comic book, if you want to break it down it makes about as much sense as the fact none of Superman's bouts of kindness come back to bite him in the arse. Of course, like Superman sometimes they do, and those can make for some good stories, but this one we got was just as simple introduction to Dredd. He's the badass of Mega City One who through strictly following the law manages to make it a slightly safer place.
    This is a terrible argument that tries to validate lazy writing by pretty much attacking every well written comic book out there. You can't justify contrived stuff by saying that similar things are contrived because that just means you have two badly done pieces.
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    I don't think he worried about the consequences because he didn't have to worry about the them. He is a Judge, jury, and executioner, not only that he is a veteran of the Judges. His word and deeds are above reproach.
    In the movie they say they are severely undermanned. Something like only 2% of the crimes in Megacity 1 go judged. They don't have the time to feel remorse or second guess themselves. They have to survive and move on to the next case.
    About him not having any character development. He doesn't need it. He is a force of nature. He isn't suppose to have character. Like Jason or Freddy, he is suppose to be a manifestation of an ideal. He is suppose to go on the journey so we, as the audience can learn something about ourselves. We look at his actions and question what is right or wrong. Law or mercy. In the movie, we weren't suppose to be looking through the eyes of Dredd, we where suppose to look through the eyes of Anderson. Take the journey with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    The Hostage did not. That's the thing. Dredd can kill the perp, but it shouldn't be so cut and dry. Every time he has something ambiguous(a hostage situation, being denied by a needed medic, arresting a homeless man for not being able to afford a home), the plot cuts that off before it could potentially turn ugly.
    On the opening shoot out, why not? It was a stinger to introduce the main character as a badass and give some basic information about his character. Have you ever seen Dirty Harry? You know, one of the most critically acclaimed and recognizable action movies of all time? In it, we're introduced to the man and his combat skills when he takes on 3 robbers in a shoot out right out in broad daylight in a location that's filled with potential victims, and he even fires at a perp with a crowd behind him. Nearly magically, no one is injured except the robbers. This is a scene that does it's primary function of setting up Harry as an excellent gunman with a vicious strike and a shoot first ask questions later attitude. The negative consequences of his actions are not explored because they are not important to the character in the set up. Now they can, if they so choose, decide to develop the negative consequences of the characters actions in a later scenario. It's not necessary, depending on the level of escapism the movie is running on, or even the story they wish to tell, but they can choose to do so.

    The writers/directors of Dredd decided that exploring the negative undertones of the Judge system was not something they wanted to deal with in the first movie, deciding to go with a minimalist shoot out movie instead, merely dropping hints here and there of true nature of the system (the line about overlooking the mutant's status, Dredd's general apathy toward death, the fact he was going to put someone in prison for 6 months (?) for begging, and the corrupt Judge's speech being the big ones that pop out at me). Actually from their interviews they have a rather good plan involved with a trilogy (that unfortunately looks like it will never be made), where the second movie was going to emphasize the fascist elements and the negative consequences of Dredd and the Judge system, and the third movie would have introduced Judge Death.

    He wasn't weeping, but he did go "They killed an innocent!" for a second there. I mean considering they were firing at a Judge already there wasn't any bigger sentence so that didn't need to be added.
    They explain that in the scene, he's informing Control what's happening. Honestly he even says the line with a rather callous manner, I wonder how you got that he actually cared from the scene.

    This is a terrible argument that tries to validate lazy writing by pretty much attacking every well written comic book out there. You can't justify contrived stuff by saying that similar things are contrived because that just means you have two badly done pieces.
    Now I love comic books and super heroes in general. One of my favorite genres and I believe some amazing stories can come out of them. But here's a challenge, name a successful super hero whose success is not contrived in some way. I'll wait. [The only one that comes to mind is Spiderman for me, and that's because the writers seem to love to screw him over needlessly every year or so. Even then not sure if they still do, haven't read anything by him in a long time]

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    This movie was bloody awesome. I went in essentially on a whim (I was walking by the theater, a couple people were like 'two for Dredd', and I saw that it was just about to start, so I said 'why not?') with no expectations whatsoever (I haven't read any of the comics and I hadn't even seen the trailer, or the first Judge Dredd movie).

    It was basically an hour and a half or so of exhilarating, non-stop awesome. Had to see it a second time. Wish I'd seen it in IMAX.
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    Now this is annoying. I was really looking forward to this movie, but didn't get a chance (busy / ill / out of the country) and now my local cinema isn't showing it any more. :(

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    Loved this movie. I don't know what else to say. An awesome, bloody romp thru a gang-controlled skyscraper, just great.

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    This was the perfect movie adaptation for Dredd. That's all I can say. It did everything right, it hit every note perfect and it distilled every bit of what it Judge Dredd into a movie I ended up seeing twice.

    I just dearly hope we get sequels.

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