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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    At what point?
    At the point the dogs show up, in the scene where they are fiddling with holograms.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    At the point the dogs show up, in the scene where they are fiddling with holograms.
    I don't recall them saying "conjure the dogs with our replicators." or anything of the sort.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    all the scene is showing is them adding the dogs to the holographic imaging of the arena There's nothing to indicate that the holograms are coming to life and becoming actual dogs. Why would you think that?

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    I don't recall them saying "conjure the dogs with our replicators." or anything of the sort.
    That would not be implying, that would be outright stating.
    I watched the movie yesterday (or the day before yesterday? something like that) and the boss tells the guy fiddling with holograms something like "put them here... can you put any more? good"
    The following scene the dogs just seem to pop out of the ground. If conjuration was not what they were trying to imply, they failed really hard in that scene.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    You have to realize that the hunger games arenas are designed so the gamemasters can insert any of the items at their disposal anywhere on the map. So when the people are fiddling with the holograms and he's saying "can you get a few more there?" he's specifically telling his crew where to place these monsters, likely there are doors or stealth craft or some other entry into the arena that allows this placement without danger of escape(forcefields?) We don't see the entry in the book but it's fairly obvious by the way that the parachutes are dropped and fires start that there are controls in place for the dispersal of anything be it succor or horror
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    That they controlled the boundaries of the arena was fairly obvious, though I think a big wall would have done the job better than a forest fire. When I was watching it happen I couldnt help but wonder what would happen if Katniss had returned to the boundary after the fire had burnt itself out.

    Having never read the books and maybe it explains it better there, but on the big screen those mutant dogs very defiantly are shown appearing out of nowhere and exactly where the game controllers wanted right when they needed them to. Its never explained where they came from. Not even a throw away line to explain it. Nothing.
    If they were hidden in underground kennel/boxes what harm would it have done to show a the lid flap open and the dogs run out? or have a techie sat something like "we have x dogs nearby, should we release them?"

    As its shown, they meld out of the ground as if by magic/uber-tech in a seeming response to a technician creating a hologram of them

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    Do not use fridge logic on Hunger Games the books or the movie. Both the books and the movie have unsustainable logic holes in the world setting to anyone with practical knowledge on how a world functions; we're not talking about quality or well-researched literature here. Remember these are mediocre novels aimed at young readers. And it rips off a Japanese manga, already dooming itself to be prone to plot holes.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Man, I'm in the middle of the second book and I can't put it down. Except I have to because I'm being blackmailed into reading Wheel of Time instead.
    Even though the second book
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    seems like a contrived way to put the two back in the arena. I'm kind of annoyed. Also, I liked the Katniss/Peeta arena romance of the first book better than the Katniss/Gale romance. But Peeta does have the problem of being too willing to do what the Capital wants.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    Man, I'm in the middle of the second book and I can't put it down. Except I have to because I'm being blackmailed into reading Wheel of Time instead.
    Even though the second book
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    seems like a contrived way to put the two back in the arena. I'm kind of annoyed. Also, I liked the Katniss/Peeta arena romance of the first book better than the Katniss/Gale romance. But Peeta does have the problem of being too willing to do what the Capital wants.
    Absolutely, it's still a lot of fun. The writing is pretty compelling, and the characters work pretty well. It's just on the logic front that it falls down.

    (Will have to check that link once I'm somewhere it isn't firewalled.)
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Absolutely, it's still a lot of fun. The writing is pretty compelling, and the characters work pretty well. It's just on the logic front that it falls down.

    (Will have to check that link once I'm somewhere it isn't firewalled.)
    Most science fiction works fail the logic test--except perhaps the Asimov-type ones which were written with the mindl of passing the logic test. I actually think The Hunger Games does better than most--primarily because the first-person narration allows the author to avoid having to explain things. Plus, it isn't a traditional science fiction work; it is more of a dystopian fantasy along the lines of 1984 or A Clockwork Orange.

    As a side note, the secret to winning The Hunger Games is to be:

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    dead sexy


    Because, if you are [see above spoiler] then
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    patrons will buy you a trident and you'll kick butt


    Unfortunately, sometimes it is
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    better to lose the games than to win, because if you are a dead sexy champion then the capital will force you to prostitute yourself. If you refuse, they'll kill your half-mad girlfriend who hasn't been the same since she won the hunger games.


    Why?
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    Because the capital oppresses the people of the districts for oppression's sake.


    Spoilers run to the last book.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    All the good distopian works have some sort of point to them, though. The horror comes about because you can see why such a thing would exist.

    That's not really the case here.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    I havn't seen the movies. In the book my explanation was that they engineered a dog for each tribute ahead of time, and just released on the ones that resembled dead tributes into the arena.

    As for the second book
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    It is basically just setting up for the, quite good in my opinion, third book.


    As for the setting of the series itself
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    The Capitol DOES seem to have a lot of "Oppression for Oppression's Sake" going on. Though most of that seems to come from the failed uprising. It seems like a lot of the status quo was established by the victors in the old uprising, seeking to humiliate their opponents, with their behavior continued for generations by people with no real animosity towards the districts.


    I wouldn't really call the Hunger Games "Horror", or even a Dystopian Fiction in the vein of 1984. It's just well-written fiction with no real agenda to it. It takes apart our cultural willingness to falsify and dehumanize people in the name of entertainment, but throughout the books the characters make use of that same dehumanization. It dosn't really criticize the idea, but it examines it closely and raises the stakes considerably.
    Last edited by BRC; 2012-09-05 at 12:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    All the good distopian works have some sort of point to them, though. The horror comes about because you can see why such a thing would exist.

    That's not really the case here.
    In The Hunger Games it is
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    revenge for the civil war and cruelty for cruelty's sake. The capital runs the games to punish the people of the districts. There's probably a fear element as well since they've oppressed the districts for so long, they cannot ease up on the oppression. There's also a side element of entertaining the people of the capital. I can certainly see a society oppressing a conquered people as revenge and then continuing the oppression because the society doesn't percieve a way to end the oppression without a societal collapse.

    Plus, there's the power aspect. Anyway, The Hunger Games is partly inspired by the Theseus myths--where the king of Crete forced the conquered Greek cities to send young people to be eaten in the labyrinth by the minotaur. So, the concept is really as old as history itself.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    Anyway, The Hunger Games is partly inspired by the Theseus myths--where the king of Crete forced the conquered Greek cities to send young people to be eaten in the labyrinth by the minotaur. So, the concept is really as old as history itself.[/spoiler]
    Inspired by the Minotaur myth? I'm sorry but that's giving the author way too much credit. It's very obviously a ripoff of the manga Battle Royale. The author can deny it all she wants, but you can find it in any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in the manga section.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    Inspired by the Minotaur myth? I'm sorry but that's giving the author way too much credit. It's very obviously a ripoff of the manga Battle Royale. The author can deny it all she wants, but you can find it in any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in the manga section.
    Well, the author said it was inspired by the Minotaur myth:
    Itís very much based on the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur, which I read when I was eight years old. I was a huge fan of Greek and Roman mythology. As punishment for displeasing Crete, Athens periodically had to send seven youths and seven maidens to Crete, where they were thrown into the labyrinth and devoured by the Minotaur, which is a monster thatís half man and half bull. Even when I was a little kid, the story took my breath away, because it was so cruel, and Crete was so ruthless.
    http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/...CA6590063.html

    Not everyone reads manga. In fact, I'll bet that the majority of Americans interested in literature are not interested in manga at all. It is far more likely that her influences were Theseus (as she says) along with other possible works such as The Lottery, 1984, The Most Dangerous Game, and Lord of the Flies.
    Last edited by snoopy13a; 2012-09-05 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Cruelty for Cruelty's sake makes a pretty crappy motivation.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    Inspired by the Minotaur myth? I'm sorry but that's giving the author way too much credit. It's very obviously a ripoff of the manga Battle Royale. The author can deny it all she wants, but you can find it in any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in the manga section.
    Only in the sense that Star Wars is a ripoff of Buck Rogers, or that Battlestar Galactica is a ripoff of Star Trek.

    I mean, have you read both sources? Beyond "some kids have to kill each other" there are no similarities. The origins, methods, characters, plots, and pretty much everything else are different.

    And given the incredibly wild commonality of "people have to kill each other in a fancy gladitorial arena", I am in fact willing to believe that more than one person could have the stunning extra idea "and they're young".
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    Not everyone reads manga. In fact, I'll bet that the majority of Americans interested in literature are not interested in manga at all. It is far more likely that her influences were Theseus (as she says) along with other possible works such as The Lottery, 1984, The Most Dangerous Game, and Lord of the Flies.
    Battle Royale was a novel before it became a manga. Anyone, the fact that most americans interested in literature fall victim to media prejudice doesn't really matter, does it?
    The way fans of Battle Royale keep calling Hunger Games a rip-off really irks me, though.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Cruelty for Cruelty's sake makes a pretty crappy motivation.
    There's also a little of power for power's sake, which is the Inner Party's motivation in 1984.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy13a View Post
    There's also a little of power for power's sake, which is the Inner Party's motivation in 1984.
    1984 depicts them as embracing cruelty(among other things) as a path to power. It isn't a simple circular cruelty for cruelty's sake or power for power.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    Inspired by the Minotaur myth? I'm sorry but that's giving the author way too much credit. It's very obviously a ripoff of the manga Battle Royale. The author can deny it all she wants, but you can find it in any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in the manga section.
    You're right. That story idea almost certainly never existed before Japan invented it 16 years ago.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    You're right. That story idea almost certainly never existed before Japan invented it 16 years ago.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Uh... let's take a real life example. There's enough food to feed everyone on the planet, yet Africa has how many starving children?

    Exactly. That's the point. It's not about being able to PROVIDE food, but about being GREEDY enough to keep it all for the rich/well-off. The entire series kinda revolves around that idea, IIRC. That's the real reason behind the 'Hunger' Games, a fact mentioned by the old dude that runs everything, again IIRC.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    Inspired by the Minotaur myth? I'm sorry but that's giving the author way too much credit. It's very obviously a ripoff of the manga Battle Royale. The author can deny it all she wants, but you can find it in any Barnes & Noble or Borders bookstore in the manga section.
    While you're there, take a look at any of the other numerous 'people killing each other for the amusement of others' stories out there. The first that comes to mind is Most Dangerous Game, but the concept, from a literary point-of-view, probably extends from AT LEAST Shakespearean times. I'm sure next you'll tell us that Justin Beiber doesn't write his own music, though.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Wow. That blog totaly deconstructs the book.

    What at first seems like a feministic story satirizing pop culture is strangely sexist, with the idea that people must be BORN beautiful otherwise its just faking it therefore bad!

    Its just such a low level of writing! But I read Eragon as a kid so the jokes on me.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Wow. That blog totaly deconstructs the book.

    What at first seems like a feministic story satirizing pop culture is strangely sexist, with the idea that people must be BORN beautiful otherwise its just faking it therefore bad!

    Its just such a low level of writing! But I read Eragon as a kid so the jokes on me.
    If that's in regard to the Capital's sense of style... I wouldn't call most of thaat beauty, more like disfiguration.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    If that's in regard to the Capital's sense of style... I wouldn't call most of thaat beauty, more like disfiguration.
    Thats because its heavy handed satire of that people that don't find themselves handsome or looking nice should just accept how ugly they look. Leave looking nice to the naturally born beautiful people. Otherwise you just look even uglier.

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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Cruelty for Cruelty's sake makes a pretty crappy motivation.
    But its cruelty for entertainments sake which has motivated many despotic and decadent empires throughout history
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosblade View Post
    Uh... let's take a real life example. There's enough food to feed everyone on the planet, yet Africa has how many starving children?

    Exactly. That's the point. It's not about being able to PROVIDE food, but about being GREEDY enough to keep it all for the rich/well-off.
    I think the causes of world hunger are a lot more complicated than just "oh it's because greedy people are keeping the food."

    I'm going to also have to agree that the claims that it ripped off Battle Royale seem rather exaggerated.
    Last edited by Lord Seth; 2012-09-05 at 07:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    But its cruelty for entertainments sake which has motivated many despotic and decadent empires throughout history
    What empires? All I can think of is Roman, which
    A) only convicted PoWs and criminals to gladiator sentence
    B) used it to keep the populace satisfied.


    Both those points are missing from The Hunger Games.

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