Something that bugs me about Hunger Games

[comicshorse]

What empires? All I can think of is Roman, which
A) only convicted PoWs and criminals to gladiator sentence
B) used it to keep the populace satisfied.


Both those points are missing from The Hunger Games.

On the contrary
a) the districts rebelled, this is the sentence that was passed on them for their rebellion
b) it keeps the population entertained, the only population the Capitol really cares about, the Capitol

[Devonix]

Thats because its heavy handed satire of that people that don't find themselves handsome or looking nice should just accept how ugly they look. Leave looking nice to the naturally born beautiful people. Otherwise you just look even uglier.

actually it's about people who placing so much attention on apperance that it's not even about looking nice or pretty, it's about being a trend setter. it's about attracting attention. being cool. It's got nothing to do with pretty.

[Scowling Dragon]

On the contrary
a) the districts rebelled, this is the sentence that was passed on them for their rebellion

Which doesn't make any sense. All it is doing is pissing the districts off. If they took rebels then people would go "Oh ****. Id better not rebel. I don't want to suffer like those fools"

But they take everybody equally! So the people should be going "Im going to attack you! Watcha gonna do? Kill MORE of my children?"

b) it keeps the population entertained, the only population the Capitol really cares about, the Capitol

WHich the blog pointed out is the stupidest evil oppressor in the world.

How is it even in control if a separate district is in charge of energy and technology! If it had a monopoly on energy and tech then this makes sense. But no! If the districts rebelled, all they would have to do is block off the tunnels and deny the capitol stuff. Then they win. The capitol has: No energy, no food, nobody that knows how to survive in such a situation, an army that it has to lead through mountains.

Rebels have: Food, Energy, and skilled people.

[Devonix]

Which doesn't make any sense. All it is doing is pissing the districts off. If they took rebels then people would go "Oh ****. Id better not rebel. I don't want to suffer like those fools"

But they take everybody equally! So the people should be going "Im going to attack you! Watcha gonna do? Kill MORE of my children?"



WHich the blog pointed out is the stupidest evil oppressor in the world.

How is it even in control if a separate district is in charge of energy and technology! If it had a monopoly on energy and tech then this makes sense. But no! If the districts rebelled, all they would have to do is block off the tunnels and deny the capitol stuff. Then they win. The capitol has: No energy, no food, nobody that knows how to survive in such a situation, an army that it has to lead through mountains.

Rebels have: Food, Energy, and skilled people.

For A its to try and beat the districs down. We own you We beat you in the past and this is to show how weak you are to us now, Our soldiers are in your cities, we have flying cars and high powered weapons and if we wanted to kill you we could just as easily as we do your children.

If you do try and fight us we will do to you what we did to district 13 and Nuke your asses into oblivion then give another district your jobs.

[The Glyphstone]

Which doesn't make any sense. All it is doing is pissing the districts off. If they took rebels then people would go "Oh ****. Id better not rebel. I don't want to suffer like those fools"

But they take everybody equally! So the people should be going "Im going to attack you! Watcha gonna do? Kill MORE of my children?"



WHich the blog pointed out is the stupidest evil oppressor in the world.

How is it even in control if a separate district is in charge of energy and technology! If it had a monopoly on energy and tech then this makes sense. But no! If the districts rebelled, all they would have to do is block off the tunnels and deny the capitol stuff. Then they win. The capitol has: No energy, no food, nobody that knows how to survive in such a situation, an army that it has to lead through mountains.

Rebels have: Food, Energy, and skilled people.

Hence why the power-generation district and the military district are two of the best-treated and most loyal districts, the ones where being a tribute is a trained volunteer status and the residents are almost as well-off as Capitol dwellers. They don't need to lead an army through mountains, they have uncontested control of the air. If the rebels try to cut off their supplies with what little resources they have, their handful of stolen guns and such, the hovercrafts come out and blast the offenders into shreds, or they just blockade the offending district and cut it off from all of its regular shipments from the other districts. Communication cross-district is deliberately inhibited to prevent the sort of coordination you're expecting

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This of course doesn't factor in District 13.

[Devonix]

Hence why the power-generation district and the military district are two of the best-treated and most loyal districts, the ones where being a tribute is a trained volunteer status and the residents are almost as well-off as Capitol dwellers. They don't need to lead an army through mountains, they have uncontested control of the air. If the rebels try to cut off their supplies with what little resources they have, their handful of stolen guns and such, the hovercrafts come out and blast the offenders into shreds, or they just blockade the offending district and cut it off from all of its regular shipments from the other districts. Communication cross-district is deliberately inhibited to prevent the sort of coordination you're expecting

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This of course doesn't factor in District 13.

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trying to avoid mentioning too much about 13 for those who haven't read the later books. but yeah without 13 the rebels have absolutly no chance at winning against a superior force in weapons, tech who have no qualms about nuking you.

[BRC]

Not to mention communication. The districts are set up such that each cannot survive without the others, since each one has only a single industry to support it. District 12 has only a few backyard gardens and some poachers to get food, it must rely on shipments from district 10. Without District 13, the only communication between districts is handled through the Capitol. The more self sufficient agricultural districts are kept under heavy guard.

[Scowling Dragon]

Hence why the power-generation district and the military district are two of the best-treated and most loyal districts,

Actually its the luxury and the military that are treated the best.

And again. Its not the capitol thats in control.

Its the actual districts. Mining stops? No energy. Food disctrict gone? No food, no luxury, no electronics,

If the rebels try to cut off their supplies with what little resources they have,

Its the DISTRICTS that have all the resources! It would take a while to establish communications between the districts without capitol control but once thats done, blamo.

Its not difficult! The Capitol is in a mountainous region, with only access to the other districts through tunnels. With huge consumption of energy and food daily!.

If the rebels properly communicate (The only difficulty) and destroy the tunnels in quick surgical strikes the capitol is left nothing!

Its not like they got the loyalty of the districts! The hunger games ENSURES to remind them how much of annoyance and weakness they are!

This reminds me SO much of Isaac Assimovs "The Foundation". As the capital of the space empire fell for exactly this reason! And at the very least it had decency to have tech on the planet itself! And not piss everybody off yearly.

And they CAN'T Nuke the other districts because they need the districts more then the districts need them!

We own you We beat you in the past and this is to show how weak you are to us now, Our soldiers are in your cities, we have flying cars and high powered weapons and if we wanted to kill you we could just as easily as we do your children.

That tactic doesn't work for the reasons I mentioned. The Districts have very little reason to be loyal to the Capitol especially since those bloody idiots have a separate district for tech!

Its just a matter of time until the districts realize

"Oh wait a minute. We have everything. They have NOTHING. Except for a few threats that will disappear the second the power is cut. They CAN'T kill us, because if they DO then the loose the resources we give them!"

[Tyndmyr]

Uh... let's take a real life example. There's enough food to feed everyone on the planet, yet Africa has how many starving children?

Exactly. That's the point. It's not about being able to PROVIDE food, but about being GREEDY enough to keep it all for the rich/well-off. The entire series kinda revolves around that idea, IIRC. That's the real reason behind the 'Hunger' Games, a fact mentioned by the old dude that runs everything, again IIRC.

Uh, but for your example to be true, food would literally have to be just growing on bushes next to african villages en masse and being entirely ignored for no reason.

It's less realism and more bad writing.

Wow. That blog totaly deconstructs the book.

What at first seems like a feministic story satirizing pop culture is strangely sexist, with the idea that people must be BORN beautiful otherwise its just faking it therefore bad!

Its just such a low level of writing! But I read Eragon as a kid so the jokes on me.

I really don't know why everyone's praised the movie for having a strong female lead. Her powers are being pretty and men doing things for her. Woo. That's some independent woman stuff right there.

But its cruelty for entertainments sake which has motivated many despotic and decadent empires throughout history

For entertainment's sake WHY? You can't just yell "entertainment" and then be done. In the case of the romans, the classic example, you have people watching others/outsiders die. Basically every culture that did this did some variation on this. The criminal, the captive, etc. The people who you could tell yourself were entirely different from yourself. And the entertainment was generally as a distraction from other issues. Bread and circuses will keep people distracted from power, sure. This obviously does not apply in any way to the hunger games.

[Reverent-One]

Actually its the luxury and the military that are treated the best.

And again. Its not the capitol thats in control.

Its the actual districts. Mining stops? No energy. Food disctrict gone? No food, no luxury, no electronics,

Correction, either of those stop and the Capitol lives off reserves while starving out the striking districts or sending in troops to break down resistence.

Its not difficult! The Capitol is in a mountainous region, with only access to the other districts through tunnels. With huge consumption of energy and food daily!.

Yeah, you're flat out wrong about that. They're got aircraft, destroying the tunnels would hurt the districts more since they wouldn't be able to get other resources they need.

And they CAN'T Nuke the other districts because they need the districts more then the districts need them!

Also wrong about that. Just because they need the districts in the long run doesn't mean they can't wipe one out and then rebuild it.

[comicshorse]

"Oh wait a minute. We have everything. They have NOTHING. Except for a few threats that will disappear the second the power is cut. They CAN'T kill us, because if they DO then the loose the resources we give them!"

No the Capitol has an army they have guns and high tech. The districts have bows and knives.

In the case of the romans, the classic example, you have people watching others/outsiders die. Basically every culture that did this did some variation on this. The criminal, the captive, etc. The people who you could tell yourself were entirely different from yourself. And the entertainment was generally as a distraction from other issues. Bread and circuses will keep people distracted from power, sure. This obviously does not apply in any way to the hunger game

But it does, the Districts are ( by the Capitol's view) traitors. They are the outsiders that attempted to destroy the hub of culture and civilization that is the Capitol. They are criminals and outsiders.

[Fjolnir]

The idea is that the capitol keeps control of both travel and communications, and is a vastly technologically superior force, and while all the districts together could win, the capitol actually has a very tight grip on the first 11 districts and comes down hard on the 12th later. The 12 districts are spread out across North America with the capitol in the rockies and without the ability to travel outside your district or talk to anyone outside your district a rebellion is a very uphill battle.

[MLai]

LOL this forum likes to argue about everything, doesn't it? And here we actually have ppl arguing over what I suppose is the literary worth of this novel series. Jesus.

Just accept that this novel series is not that good. And then say, "But I like it, it's mental popcorn. So screw off." That's a valid position to take.

Was gonna elaborate on the Battle Royale thing. But... nah. And yes Snoopy13, I've read every single one of those other stories you have mentioned. Though I'm not sure to which Shakespearean play THG is supposed to be linked to or inspired by. Maybe that one I haven't read.

[Tyndmyr]

Correction, either of those stop and the Capitol lives off reserves while starving out the striking districts or sending in troops to break down resistence.

Yeah, you're flat out wrong about that. They're got aircraft, destroying the tunnels would hurt the districts more since they wouldn't be able to get other resources they need.

Woo, then the distract has "only one kind of resources" each, while the capitol is producing none at all. Winner: Not the capitol.

Except there's an even greater flaw. They don't produce only one kind of product each. Remember Peeta or whatever his name was? Were did he work in the mining district? Ah, yes, the bakery. So, the segregation clearly isn't all that amazing.

[Reverent-One]

Woo, then the distract has "only one kind of resources" each, while the capitol is producing none at all. Winner: Not the capitol.

Except the Capitol can live without the districts longer than the districts can live without Capitol assistence (except perhaps the food districts), and it doesn't even come to that since the Capitol can still go get resources since they have the aforementioned aircraft. So, winner: Not the districts.

[MLai]

Except there's an even greater flaw. They don't produce only one kind of product each. Remember Peeta or whatever his name was? Were did he work in the mining district? Ah, yes, the bakery. So, the segregation clearly isn't all that amazing.

Yes, if the movie wanted to clearly show specialization and self-insufficiency of the districts, each district should have looked like a different industrial town. For example, the mining town would look like a modern mining town. Not a rural town with farm animals. In fact I'm not sure how the backwards district is supposed to be able to supply enough coal for a metropolis; I got the impression that it's mining tech is something out of the 1800s.

Perhaps the books wrote about Katniss' town more realistically?

[Tyndmyr]

Yes, if the movie wanted to clearly show specialization and self-insufficiency of the districts, each district should have looked like a different industrial town. For example, the mining town would look like a modern mining town. Not a rural town with farm animals. In fact I'm not sure how the backwards district is supposed to be able to supply enough coal for a metropolis; I got the impression that it's mining tech is something out of the 1800s.

Perhaps the books wrote about Katniss' town more realistically?

Oh, look at the link on page 2. Sadly, the book was notably less realistic, and went further down the "random rural town" rabbit hole.

We just don't see this super-specialization at all.

[The Glyphstone]

Woo, then the distract has "only one kind of resources" each, while the capitol is producing none at all. Winner: Not the capitol.

Except there's an even greater flaw. They don't produce only one kind of product each. Remember Peeta or whatever his name was? Were did he work in the mining district? Ah, yes, the bakery. So, the segregation clearly isn't all that amazing.

[/QUOTE]

Produced bread, yes. Grew grain, no. That's again part of the separation and inter-dependency strategy...the Grain-growing district has no bakers, so while they can grow and mill wheat, they can't eat it.

[Tyndmyr]

Produced bread, yes. Grew grain, no. That's again part of the separation and inter-dependency strategy...the Grain-growing district has no bakers, so while they can grow and mill wheat, they can't eat it.[/QUOTE]

You can theorize that, but it's again an informed trait...not something we're at all sure of. I mean, Katniss's family has a milk goat. That's pretty overtly food production happening in district. In fact, of the people we hear about in her town, the only miner I recall is her dead dad.

This super-specialization is simply not described at all.

[The Glyphstone]

Produced bread, yes. Grew grain, no. That's again part of the separation and inter-dependency strategy...the Grain-growing district has no bakers, so while they can grow and mill wheat, they can't eat it.

You can theorize that, but it's again an informed trait...not something we're at all sure of. I mean, Katniss's family has a milk goat. That's pretty overtly food production happening in district. In fact, of the people we hear about in her town, the only miner I recall is her dead dad.

This super-specialization is simply not described at all.[/QUOTE]

The only character explicitly named as a miner, because the faceless extras don't matter. No one has said the districts are 100% dependent on outside supplies, but they are dependent on them - if they were cut off entirely, they could theoretically eke out a subsistence living...but they're not going to be doing any rebelling when their existence is devoted to not starving and mining enough coal/chopping wood to keep from freezing to death.

The super-specialization isn't described explicitly because it's a setting element - as said, it's not meant to be hard science fiction with all the details laid out. Presumably the rules being lax in District 12 is narrative-intentional, made that way to give a basis for the heroine and the rebellion starting there. In the farming district, the mentally disabled worker is shot dead on the spot for not turning in his night-vision goggles, and eating crops is grounds for public whipping, so the 12's residents are allowed to hunt while the guards look the other way isn't the standard. The textiles district is "an ugly urban place stinking of industrial fumes, the people housed in run down tenements, barely a blade of grass in sight" - not really the sort of place you'd expect to be agriculturally self-sufficient.


EDIT: Why is the system butchering our quotes of each other?

[Tyndmyr]

The only character explicitly named as a miner, because the faceless extras don't matter. No one has said the districts are 100% dependent on outside supplies, but they are dependent on them - if they were cut off entirely, they could theoretically eke out a subsistence living...but they're not going to be doing any rebelling when their existence is devoted to not starving and mining enough coal/chopping wood to keep from freezing to death.

The super-specialization isn't described explicitly because it's a setting element - as said, it's not meant to be hard science fiction with all the details laid out. Presumably the rules being lax in District 12 is narrative-intentional, made that way to give a basis for the heroine and the rebellion starting there. In the farming district, the mentally disabled worker is shot dead on the spot for not turning in his night-vision goggles, and eating crops is grounds for public whipping, so the 12's residents are allowed to hunt while the guards look the other way isn't the standard. The textiles district is "an ugly urban place stinking of industrial fumes, the people housed in run down tenements, barely a blade of grass in sight" - not really the sort of place you'd expect to be agriculturally self-sufficient.

They don't have to do any real rebelling. If they simply revert to a subsistence lifestyle and ignore the capitol, the capitol loses. I don't know if all the districts are surrounded by forest the way district 12 is, but frankly, logging is not a hard trade to pick up. That's basic shelter and fuel. It's established that food exists in the woods(in strangely plentiful amounts even). So, any district bordering a forest is basically golden.

EDIT: Why is the system butchering our quotes of each other?

Not a clue. Looked over it fairly carefully this time, it *should* be sorted. Odd.

[Scowling Dragon]

If I where to be the Capitol, I would be a combination of Both the Empire and the Foundation from "Foundation"

A: The capitol has monopoly on electronics, Weapons, and Energy. This way they will always have an advantage against every other district (No District 13)

B: Each district is given high tech for their stuff

C: High levels of Propaganda. Each district is disconnected from the others. And each district is told that they are the favored one. Of how awesome it is and how every other district sucks. The Capitol is also shown as a sort of religious area. So that everybody is told to believe that the capitol is god or such and any problems with the district are blamed on rebels (For the Glory of the Capitol!).

D: The hunger games are still lethal, but optional. And done by adults. The point is to instill more anger of every district against each other. Because there won't be live televising of each thing. Each district is fed an altered version of actual events that makes the opposing districts look like cheaters (So even if your district looses, it was all because those nasty other districts are a bunch of cheaters. So sign up next year so that you can show that other district a thing or two! For the Glory of the capitol!).

E: The winner gets to stay in the capitol. So its more motivation to sign up for the hunger games (Or call them the Glory games to see who is worthy of joining the godlike Capitol).

F: HEAVY Segregation. And trying out other stuff is discouraged as your trying to be more like "Those evil other districts"

[Reverent-One]

They don't have to do any real rebelling. If they simply revert to a subsistence lifestyle and ignore the capitol, the capitol loses. I don't know if all the districts are surrounded by forest the way district 12 is, but frankly, logging is not a hard trade to pick up. That's basic shelter and fuel. It's established that food exists in the woods(in strangely plentiful amounts even). So, any district bordering a forest is basically golden.

And how do you figure they're going to able to "ignore the capitol" in the first place? You think the Capitol would just go "Well, they don't want to work for us anymore, I guess we'll respect that decision"? What happens when the Capitol replaces the more lienent guard captain with one that actually leaves the electric fence on, preventing them from getting any use out of the forest?

[Tyndmyr]

And how do you figure they're going to able to "ignore the capitol" in the first place? You think the Capitol would just go "Well, they don't want to work for us anymore, I guess we'll respect that decision"? What happens when the Capitol replaces the more lienent guard captain with one that actually leaves the electric fence on, preventing them from getting any use out of the forest?

According to the books, the guards are also short on meat. So, it's not like they can just crack down on everyone. The capitol and it's guards are directly dependent on the districts. The instant the supply stops from even a single district, there's a severe problem for it.

It's really the worst despotic scheme ever. Yes, I'll put my seat of power where I have absolutely nothing of value, then, I'll piss off everyone for no good reason. Even better, I'll do it in such a way that every child is motivated to train for lethal combat. Surely, that could never go awry. Then, once they're all trained, I'll kill THEIR kids. Nothing bad could EVER come of that. Now, I'm off to go smell of blood and laugh manically.

[Reverent-One]

According to the books, the guards are also short on meat. So, it's not like they can just crack down on everyone. The capitol and it's guards are directly dependent on the districts. The instant the supply stops from even a single district, there's a severe problem for it.

The guards that trade with Katniss and Gale do so not because they're starve otherwise, but for luxury. They very well could crack down on the entire district. You're also exaggerating the difficulties the Capitol faces by losing supplies from a district, they aren't instantly in any danger, meanwhile the same cannot be said for the district.

[mangosta71]

There's a difference between "they don't have any/enough" and "they don't have as much as they want". Yes, the Peacekeepers would still have some meat if they shut Kat and Gale down, but they want more than they're allotted so they look the other way.

[The Glyphstone]

That, and why would 'leave them alone' be an option when they have crack military troops and airships? Note that there are three different food-supplying districts - meat, crops, and fish - so to actually threaten the Capitol's food supply (as opposed to simply their variety of meals), all three would need to rebel together. If one locks itself up, they're stuck on feeding themselves until the Capitol gets around to enforcing order...and if it's a non-food-producer like the industrial nothing-but-grimy-factories, it's unfeasible for them to have the infrastructure to go to subsistence farming before they all starve. District 12 is probably the only district that could actually survive on its own (food and fuel),

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which is why it got firebombed into oblivion, instead of just being occupied by Capitol troops.

EDIT: Incidentally, I was wrong about the grain district, it has a 'signature bread loaf', so it must have bakers. I'll still bet they aren't allowed to eat their own loaves, though, or even allowed to bake enough to feed themselves.

[Teron]

EDIT: Incidentally, I was wrong about the grain district, it has a 'signature bread loaf', so it must have bakers. I'll still bet they aren't allowed to eat their own loaves, though, or even allowed to bake enough to feed themselves.

Why wouldn't they be? They have to eat something. If I recall correctly, though, they have to buy their grain back from the Capitol.

[The Glyphstone]

Why wouldn't they be? They have to eat something. If I recall correctly, though, they have to buy their grain back from the Capitol.

I'd expect they would be fed on meat and fish from the other farming districts, and bread made in other districts. It's no guarantee, but would make sense if the policy was hard-coded as 'anything made/grown here, you can't have', expanding off the policy of being whipped for stealing fruit - easier to outright ban something than figure out if it was legally gained or not, when there are other alternatives. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if anyone caught eating beef in District 10 was harshly punished, though since District 4 is a Career district, I'll bet they get to eat from their catches.

[nyarlathotep]

Was gonna elaborate on the Battle Royale thing. But... nah. And yes Snoopy13, I've read every single one of those other stories you have mentioned. Though I'm not sure to which Shakespearean play THG is supposed to be linked to or inspired by. Maybe that one I haven't read.

Well first off you claimed that the manga was the original, when it is really a rather shallow adaptation of the movie, which was a rather good adaptation of the novel. It also doesn't help that Battle Royale is essentially "What if we took the Lord of the Flies and combined it with the Long Walk" the same way the Hunger Games is essentially "What if we took Battle Royale and combined it with 1984".