[Nexus] OoC 34: If it exists, we have role-played it. No exceptions.

[Artemis97]

House Xar'Cha works with Remnant, supplying them with manpower, mostly patrolling the streets, especially around Delmah Phor.

[Gullara]

The firing detail might not have reported directly to Remnant. They might've reported to a leader who might cooperate with Remnant to police his/her own subsection of the city.

Uh, Alexandrian? Remnant was never stated to be working with the ICM, nor any other sort of police force. Really, the only people they are cooperating with in that fashion are House Xar'Cha, though that isn't relevant in the particular situation.

And to elaborate on police forces, Remnant should be considered the top and final authority when it comes to Inside law. Peoples' IC opinions may vary on the matter, but that doesn't change the ultimate truth.

[Darkcomet]

The Altaran Irregulars, run by me, are also allies of Remnant, though they're more Remnant-like in equipment than most. They tend to pop up in similar patterns to Remnant troopers, and are also theoretically more likely to intervene where Remnant wouldn't be able to.

They're the ones referred to as 'Sanctions' by Remnant.

And I really need to play them more. But still, they pretty much enforce things the same way Remnant does, so they're more of an...independent extension of Remnant, I suppose?

[Lord Magtok]

@Magtok: If that's the case, why would Remnant care that some elf kid gave his homosapien dad arsenic flavored oatmeal for breakfast?

Because the law says that sort of thing doesn't fly, and whilst one smelly little poisoned dad doesn't really matter, people need to know that kind of thing won't be tolerated, and the law needs to be upheld. If I had to apply a DnD alignment to Remnant (meaning someone was holding me at gunpoint and forcing that lame, awful system on me), I'd probably go with Lawful Evil. They're unpleasant people applying martial law, the only kind of law they know, to an equally unpleasant, terribly violent world. It's easier to be Judge Dredd than Mother Theresa, and so Remnant has chosen to model itself after the former.

[The Bushranger]

Also, you're up in Sitar, I think, Alexandrian.

[Beans]

Have you ever looked at a show/game/book and been like "nooooo I don't want to want to watch/read/play you but I doooo stop complicating my life"?
I'm feeling that with the Marathon games again, which I gave up on last time because ahhhh how can Doom-era flat sprites and blocky environments be the scariest thing I've ever played Bungie you're pure evil.

[OrchestraHc]

If it's martial law then why are there so many super powered crazy people with weapons everywhere? If Remnant were running this big looming police state, potential threats would all be either conscripted, banned, or killed. And MAGIC? Oh hell, the things they would do with, to, and against magic users. There's no curfew, no weeding out dissidents, challenging the system isn't inherently illegal.

You can buy weapons in the mall. Unregulated! What police state in their right mind would let Erin's Emporium stay open?

Yeah, from what I've seen, most Remnant characters are played as the big tough army folks, but their portrayed way more often as Defenders than Oppressors.

[Zefir]

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Sitar's Strings

Man, you people are not very aware of your surroundings, then. Sure, I'll take a table. Actually, I think that guy over there just referenced me in narrative.

She turns to face Zefir.

Hey, its rude to call people crazy! Even if it was not in dialogue.

She huffs a little, then turns back to the waitress.

Seat me with other people. I'll cover their bill, whoever it is. And make sure it is PCs.

@Jacklu: You mentioned it here. I said it in narrative. That means your char shouldn't know it. If your char can read minds he needs to attemp it first, but this way it is rather rude.

[happyturtle]

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Here's mine, and Keveak's is right above it.

And I know this is an old quote but it's something I'm curious about:



Emphasis mine.

I'm sorry but what? Firing squad or Penal Company? Those are his only choices? Does Inside have no regular prisons? I know it's not as much fun to RP when all the cool criminals are in Penal Company, but seriously? Varo's in there for poisoning his father, who beat his mother. That's murder one at worst not Military Treason. Pleading guilty would probably get him life (Which is technically just 14 years before parole becomes available.) A good lawyer could probably get him murder two, tried as a juvenile by elf standards (he's described as a teenage looking if I recall correctly), and maybe even the judges sympathy and a reduced sentence.

I guess I'm rambling so I'll actually make a point: Sweet Thanksmas, Remnant seemed to be little unnecessarily harsh on this one, dontcha think?

You guys are having a very interesting conversation, so I kinda feel bad spoiling all the analysis and stuff by saying that Varo may not be accurately representing himself and his crimes to his fellow inmates. >.>

As for whether he's a juvenile or not, he's legally an adult even by elf standards, but appears younger because he's, you know, an elf.

[FireFox]

Regarding the Council thread, I admit that I have no idea what to do about Right's apocaplot. On one hand, Tobias agreed to bring it to the Council's attention. On the other hand, Righty has disappeared from the Nexus, not for the first time. I can't imagine many people would want to waste time preparing for something that may never happen (I'm not entirely sure how the Council would prepare for a threat deep in space, anyways), but I thought I'd ask to make sure. I for one would be fine with just handwaving that particular item off Tobias' agenda and either bringing up something else to discuss or ending the Council meeting. Thoughts?

[Morty]

I think handwaving is fine.

[Lord Magtok]

If it's martial law then why are there so many super powered crazy people with weapons everywhere?

Because Remnant knows better than to challenge those people. They're not all-powerful, and their numbers are limited. There are things they can and can't control, and those people are one of those things.

If Remnant were running this big looming police state, potential threats would all be either conscripted, banned, or killed.

Magtok's a potential threat. AMEN is one, too. That Louv're Tower business is a potential threat as well, and so are a large number of others. If Remnant tried to do any of those three things to any of those three organizations, the death toll would amount to much more sacrifice than the Remmies can afford.

And MAGIC? Oh hell, the things they would do with, to, and against magic users. There's no curfew, no weeding out dissidents, challenging the system isn't inherently illegal.

You can buy weapons in the mall. Unregulated! What police state in their right mind would let Erin's Emporium stay open?

Erin's Emporium has the most ridiculously overpowered superweapons you can imagine, if I recall correctly. It has everything. Way back, several years ago, they considered what it would take to go after it. Projected casualties were enormous.

Again, Remnant may be Inside's top military force, but they're a long ways from being totally unstoppable. When the safety of the city depends on you for so much, you have to know when to pick and choose your battles. Prisons cost money, they require guards and energy fields and all sorts of other things. At least the penal company does something to try to offset those costs, and death by firing squad nearly guarantees a criminal won't become a repeat offender.

[Reinholdt]

Again, Remnant may be Inside's top military force, but they're a long ways from being totally unstoppable. When the safety of the city depends on you for so much, you have to know when to pick and choose your battles. Prisons cost money, they require guards and energy fields and all sorts of other things. At least the penal company does something to try to offset those costs, and death by firing squad nearly guarantees a criminal won't will become a repeat offender as they get rezzed, turned into vengeful ghosts, then become some sort of ascended godbeing all with a grudge.

Fixed it for you.

[OrchestraHc]

Because Remnant knows better than to challenge those people. They're not all-powerful, and their numbers are limited. There are things they can and can't control, and those people are one of those things.

Magtok's a potential threat. AMEN is one, too. That Louv're Tower business is a potential threat as well, and so are a large number of others. If Remnant tried to do any of those three things to any of those three organizations, the death toll would amount to much more sacrifice than the Remmies can afford.

I don't exactly have an answer for this that fits with my argument, so here's me arguing against myself: Louv're was banned and AMEN, while not exactly conscripted or banned, has very explicit and serious agreements with the city of Inside, and if they try to pull something, Remnant will kill them. Same with Maggles.

Other than that, I can't say much to it. It doesn't really attack my "Remnant isn't bad enough to do the Varo thing," Argument

Erin's Emporium has the most ridiculously overpowered superweapons you can imagine, if I recall correctly. It has everything. Way back, several years ago, they considered what it would take to go after it. Projected casualties were enormous.

I'm going a bit off topic, but I actually read that, and the plan for Erin's seems stupidly inefficient and pointlessly destructive compared to sending in a well trained swat team. I'm something of a believer that organization trumps firepower, especially in sci-fi settings. See Luke v. Death Star.

Again, Remnant may be Inside's top military force, but they're a long ways from being totally unstoppable. When the safety of the city depends on you for so much, you have to know when to pick and choose your battles. Prisons cost money, they require guards and energy fields and all sorts of other things. At least the penal company does something to try to offset those costs, and death by firing squad nearly guarantees a criminal won't become a repeat offender.

Prisons might be expensive, but they're necessary. Not every criminal deserves or is even capable of being a member of Penal Company, and certainly not every criminal deserves death. Remnant isn't going to stick every drunk driver, every thief, every stock market cheater, and every rich guy who doesn't pay their taxes in Penal Company. That'd be just ridiculous. If offsetting cost is a problem, then I've got two words "Work Camps," which would fall under your argument more than mine.

[Reinholdt]

I don't exactly have an answer for this that fits with my argument, so here's me arguing against myself: Louv're was banned and AMEN, while not exactly conscripted or banned, has very explicit and serious agreements with the city of Inside, and if they try to pull something, Remnant will kill them. Same with Maggles.

Other than that, I can't say much to it. It doesn't really attack my "Remnant isn't bad enough to do the Varo thing," Argument

Remnant can certainly try.

That said, according to some people I've talked to, Remnant's existence and the manner in which they are played has put some inherent limitations on certain Nexus RP. Not real limitations, per say, but perceived ones. For instance, even Wolf believed that AMEN was impotent until Remnant 'gave them permission' to be in Inside. At least according to my understanding of a conversation in relation to that event.

I personally won't speak to the accuracy of this, or even if said limitations are even all that bad, but there is a definite effect. And I think as a result the perception of Remnant is different from what those who run Remnant claim is how things are. If that makes any sense.

[Terumitsu]

I think this is the time that I should mention the 'Drow Society' parallel that I made.. It's been at least three years now? Jeeze I feel old now.

Anyway, while the whole idea of prisons and work camps are things that would indeed be something of merit in a functioning society, how many players would be willing to 'staff' such a thing where there is the same amount of tedium as being a prisoner? I mean, if you made a sort of super prison where the idea was less 'Leave the bad people here' and more 'This place is an eldritch hell hole and if you survive the death course to freedom then you're free to go' then I can see a prison like that working as it's an Event Location but just sitting around would not make for fun RP.

Again, the reason I mention drow society is that, as fluffed, it cannot function. The only way it does is through direct divine intervention which, as stated in said fluff, does happen. This is effectively what happens with the Nexus as well although with fewer crazy spider ladies with god complexes. This is basically as much of an OOC issue as it is IC and unless the both can be reconciled in a way that is acceptable for all involved, I don't see this ending in anything more than a lot of words and noise.

[Morty]

The points you're making have been made before, Orchestra. The only real answer is that FFRP works a certain way. Prisons are basically meant only for NPCs, because sticking a PC there pretty much means permadeadtiming them. And things meant only for NPCs tend to be forgotten quickly. The Nexus is inherently crazy both for IC and OoC reasons. Certain things just need to be viewed through that lens in order for it to make any sense.

[happyturtle]

@Varo: I feel ignored.

@Remnant: I don't think it's ever been established what happens to people who commit lesser crimes than those PCs who have been seen in the Penal Company so far. In the interest of handwaving infrastructure that may not get seen onscreen, we can probably assume something exists. Maybe criminals get paddled and sent away to think about what they did?

The other thing is that, in general, few people actually get arrested by Remnant. The people in the Penal Company, with the exception of Cassius, are there because people said 'Hey, I wanna make a PC who's a convict'. Not because Remnant went out onscreen and found people and arrested them. Generally they show up for an event and end up killing zombies or giant bugs or other monsters, and any villain PCs who are present usually get away.

@The plausibility of the Nexus setting: Teru and Morty make good points. The Nexus setting works because we kind of ignore all the reasons it shouldn't. Except when we pull them up and have rousing OOC debates about whether or not something is realistic.

@Council: I think handwaving that item of the agenda is fine. If Righty returns after we've finished the meeting, then we can start another one to discuss it.

[Jacklu]

@Jacklu: You mentioned it here. I said it in narrative. That means your char shouldn't know it. If your char can read minds he needs to attemp it first, but this way it is rather rude.

Latalla didn't read his mind. She read the post. She isn't a mind reader. Going so far as to not read italics dialog used to denote internal monologing. She does, however, read descriptive text in posts. It is annoying, but short of spraying her with a water spritzer every time she does it, I can't think of a way to stop her. But even then she only ever does it when it might result in a comedic moment. Or one that confuses people.

[Zefir]

Well I can only say I dislike such an ability.

[Morty]

I agree with Zefir. It at least verges on godmodding. Possibly even is flat-out godmodding, but I don't know enough about the situation to say for sure.

[Beans]

Latalla didn't read his mind. She read the post. She isn't a mind reader. Going so far as to not read italics dialog used to denote internal monologing. She does, however, read descriptive text in posts. It is annoying, but short of spraying her with a water spritzer every time she does it, I can't think of a way to stop her. But even then she only ever does it when it might result in a comedic moment. Or one that confuses people.

You can just.
Y'know.
Not type words on your keyboard that involve Latalla doing that.
Choose what sequence of keys you hit with the fingers on the hands that belong to you and are typing on the keyboard that also belongs to you.
That is the way in which you control the actions of the character whose actions you are relating to people via text.
Characters only do things in posts that you decide to put there.

[happyturtle]

My characters hijack my fingers if I try to silence them like that.

[Beans]

Clearly your fingers need more firewalls and nortons. Your characters are hacking your dot matrix and tarballing your IP! They've probably stolen 50 grams of RAM by now!

[Earl of Purple]

RE: Erin's Emporium- I seem to recall a aircraft/spacecraft with a crew of one and a cloaking device flying out from underneath the Inside Store once. And I think it's a fortress disguised as a shop by illusions/holograms.

RE: Latella- I too am not too fond of the ability. However, I do understand that the character is supposed to be a whimsical character wielding a fourth-wall sledgehammer. Perhaps you could limit it to reading their own posts?

RE: happy's comment- That happens to me, too. Most notably in Elexxion, when one of my characters suddenly proposed to another of my characters. I was expecting it less than the character that said 'yes'. Which reminds me; I need to sort out their wedding.

[Jacklu]

You can just.
Y'know.
Not type words on your keyboard that involve Latalla doing that.
Choose what sequence of keys you hit with the fingers on the hands that belong to you and are typing on the keyboard that also belongs to you.
That is the way in which you control the actions of the character whose actions you are relating to people via text.
Characters only do things in posts that you decide to put there.

Me and Latalla have a.... complicated relationship. I enable her, I know, but she is awfully willful.

But if her reading OOC stuff bothers people, I can have her reign that in and only do it with people who are okay with it.

I would like to point out that she is almost entirely a gag character and has only ever done that stuff for the sake of a joke. She would never, say, ruin a plot point or reveal somebody's secrets or even use it to her advantage in any way.

[Devixer]

*pokes Horngeek and McBish to Inside*

[ThirdEmperor]

*Pokes Beans to Outside*

[Darklord Bright]

There used to be the ICM, but Darklord hasn't been around, so it's pretty much dead now. It could probably be revived, though, if anyone were to put in a bit of time tracking down the old members (as I recall, there was a now-dead character of Slii's, Tlannae, and Adir for PCs), or even just moving into the building and starting recruitment again.

And thanks for the input, C'nor! I forgot all about ICM! So there were/are mini-police forces that worked/work with Remnant, then (to varying degrees). That enables corruption without any of the blame falling upon Remnant, if a player so chooses to utilize any of that in Nexus-based character backstory.

The Inside City Militia was based heavily in spirit on the Watch from the Discworld novels, with Rayna being my own take on a Vimes-style pseudo-NPC. If you keep it like that in spirit (being a rag-tag group of low-to-medium-powered characters who take on small threats but can occasionally tackle things much bigger than they are with a combination of dumb luck and ingenuity), then I see no reason why someone else can't take the reigns.

It was basically there so that you could play a crime-fighting group without being part of a badass military unit, and so people could play small-time criminal PC/NPCs without everyone wondering where the police force was.

[AmberVael]

You can buy weapons in the mall. Unregulated! What police state in their right mind would let Erin's Emporium stay open?

I want to point out that this is not entirely correct. When Grace allowed Erin's to install a location at Mallside, she ensured that any notable weaponry and similar items would at least be logged and brought to her attention. She would have banned it outright, but that would simply result in people getting it from other locations. In Nexus, it's impossible to regulate, so she simply ensured it would happen under her watchful eye.

Any time someone she doesn't trust (or know) purchases something of note (beyond the small items that are frankly just needed for self-defense in Nexus), she knows, and I've always intended for her to inform Remnant if it ever came up.

Note, it hasn't ever come up. Largely because Erin just directs people to their other location if they want to buy something big.