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    Default Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    France, after conquering much of Europe, ally with Russia, rather than attempt to conquer it, and they proceed to make treaties with the rest of the European powers, with foreign back up (Perhaps the Ottoman Empire?) to ensure that they no longer need to worry about invasions on their border, and they discover a mystical portal to Nirn has opened up somewhere in the French country side. After sending scouts to Nirn that confirm that it does, in fact exist, Napolean enters the portal himself with enough gaurds to make it worthwhile.

    Over a span of fifteen years the Grand Old Army plans to conquer Tamriel, attempting to learn it's secrets as quickly as they can. The most brilliant minds of France attempt to learn the magic of Nirn during that time, and scouts and investigators are educated in Tamriel's ways to make sure that informants aren't discovered.

    Can the combined might of Tamriel defeat the Grand Armee' of Napolean, which consists of 554,000 men? (Assume that Napolean will keep 100,000 men back in Europe). Keep in mind Napolean's armee possesses cannons, as well as muskets, in addition to swords, and that they have spent at least 12 years educating their highest geniuses and students in Tamriel's magic.

    Also keep in mind that Tamriel possesses alot more magic than Napolean's army, despite it's vast size and advanced technology. Sure, Napolean has magic too, but the inhabitants of Tamriel have had it for millenia.

    Assume that right before Franc'es invasion of Tamriel, the Thalmor, Empire and major powers cooperate to repel the invasion.
    Last edited by DarthArminius; 2012-09-09 at 12:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    When in Tamriels timeline are we speaking of?
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise View Post
    When in Tamriels timeline are we speaking of?
    Ah, excuse me, this is right after Alduin gets the boot from the Dragonborn. Assume that there has been a cooperation between Thalmore and the Empire behind the scenes. I'll put that into the OP. (The Empire won the civil war).

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Well, the people of Nirn are considerably hardier than your average Frenchman, but without DLC, they don't have any cavalry, and their battle tactics amount to "mob the enemy". Organized guilds of magic are absolutely pitiful, so we shouldn't expect coordinated use of it on the field. The Thu'um is likewise completely useless.

    Honestly? Tamriel stands no chance. There's nothing they can do against a massed artillery barrage other than charge into range of their crappy bows and spells that exhaust half of a standard mage's mana reserve when cast. Their only hope is getting the Dark Brotherhood to snickersnack Napoleon and his generals in the dead of night, but the Brotherhood may very well have been wiped out by this point.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    I'm going to go with the side that has an immortal superbeing that can alter reality at a whim.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by pffh View Post
    I'm going to go with the side that has an immortal superbeing that can alter reality at a whim.
    You're giving Napoleon way too much credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    You're giving Napoleon way too much credit.

    Actually I wasn't talking about Napoleon. I was talking about Jean Lannes.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    I propose that a mudcrab with infinite money comes along and just buys up most of Europe.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I propose that a mudcrab with infinite money comes along and just buys up most of Europe.
    Followed by a scamp with infinite money that buys the Americas and then they end up in a bidding war over Asia.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    technically they dont have infinate money. i beliee their limit is 10k

    i have to go with Tamriel on this one. just a few easy steps to victory.

    1. conjuration mages summon up daedra to fight the invaders. it is quite likely the daedra wouldnt win the battle, but their purpose is just to delay and distract european forces long enough for tamriels main force to assemble into proper formations.

    1.2. while the daedra are distracting napoleans forces, thieves guild, wood-elf archers and whatnot go behind enemy lines sabotoging artillery positions.

    2. by this point the daedra will likely be gone but so will napoleans artillery. the armies of tamriel then quickly close with the enemy while destruction mages and the remaining archers decimate the enemies rear with arrows, bolts and spells.

    3. once the main enemy force is gone a band of khajit skirmishers is sent in to neutralize the stragglers.

    4. restoration mages heal the wounded and tamriel rejoices at the great victory over foreign invaders. the armies are still on guard though, for a mysterious portal still awaits further exploration.

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    There's things on Tamriel that handily outstrip any artillery Nappy has. Greybeards blowing up fortifications from half a country away, for example. And then there's the really powerful stuff. Psijiics. Elves from the first era. If this was a bit earlier in the timeline, I'd say Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal, but they are dead at this point.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    How large are Tamrielic armies anyway? :/

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    In the games? A few dozen. In the fluff, I don't have any numbers right now. But likely thousands, at least. The continents are supposed to be a lot bigger than portrayed in the games.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    In the games? A few dozen. In the fluff, I don't have any numbers right now. But likely thousands, at least. The continents are supposed to be a lot bigger than portrayed in the games.
    Eh, I see. :)

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    The Greybeards and the Psijics don't count because they don't get involved in anything ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    He did say all of Tamriel. But there's still enough Archmages and so on around even without them.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    He did say all of Tamriel. But there's still enough Archmages and so on around even without them.
    Can the most brilliant French minds become Archmages in 15 years?

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    He did say all of Tamriel. But there's still enough Archmages and so on around even without them.
    The Archmages are pitiful. The one in Skyrim, for instance, solves things by waiting until someone else does something about them.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    That gets complicated. Go over to some of the fan forums, and you'd get a thirty page thread with people throwing two thousand word essays at each other, containing words like "Aetherius" and "et'Ada" and "Monomyth".

    Elder Scrolls metaphysics are complicated. But the short version is that you can't just learn magic like that.

    On Archmages: they still get access to all magic, and some stuff the player can't even get close to. Nuking cities with one spell is entirely possible in Morrowind.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-09-09 at 06:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    I've always had difficulty separating the foibles of the games from what the setting is actually supposed to be like, so I've not got any real feel for Tamriel other than... buggy and not really consistent like the huge swathes of undeveloped wilderness in the middle of the "cosmopolitan" agricultural center of the Empire courtesy of Oblivion.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Oblivion was a mess. They had to re-write much of the backstory to explain why it didn't look like the central american jungle it was described as in earlier games.

    That said: Morrowind, at least, takes a huge joy in taking quirks of the game mechanics and finding ways for them to be incorporated into the metaphysics and cosmology. So every time you find a dead creature jiggling across the ground towards you or someone falling through the ground forever, there's a chance Sheogorath did it.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Morrowind nuke-spells are lost legends by the time of the scenario though, aren't they?
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2012-09-09 at 06:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    I don't have a computer good enough to run Skyrim yet, so I wouldn't know.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Such spells aren't mentioned in the game at all, and if either the Empire or the Dominion had the power to instantly incinerate the enemy capital, I'm pretty sure they would have used it, especially since the Altmer are the world's preeminent mages.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Such spells aren't mentioned in the game at all, and if either the Empire or the Dominion had the power to instantly incinerate the enemy capital, I'm pretty sure they would have used it, especially since the Altmer are the world's preeminent mages.
    Oddly enough, I have found Bretons to be better mages due to conjuration spells in Skyrim than Altmer, although to be honest, I have not played an Altmer. I can still say Bretons are possibly better mages, however, because of the nerfing Skyrim has done with the offensive spells.

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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Hm. I see. Where the Greybeards depowered? Because from the description of Tiber Septim and his compatriots, I'd put one of them against a battalion or two.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Hm. I see. Where the Greybeards depowered? Because from the description of Tiber Septim and his compatriots, I'd put one of them against a battalion or two.
    Tiber Septim was CHIM though, wasn't he?
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Hm. I see. Where the Greybeards depowered? Because from the description of Tiber Septim and his compatriots, I'd put one of them against a battalion or two.
    The Greybeards are forbidden by their vows from leaving their mountain. Ulfric was the only one to ever break those vows and descend back into the world to get involved in its affairs, and though he is said to have used the Thu'um to bring down a fortress, his actual use of it in the game is very underwhelming. Considering that the man has built a huge personality cult around himself, it's entirely possible that the fortress thing was a huge exaggeration.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    I'll give you that, especially since the Elder Scrolls are big on having no single source be the true event as it happened. Still, I seem to remember other Greybeards being mentioned as having similar powers. Which might just as well be a similar exaggeration, being proven wrong by meeting the actual Greybeards.

    And yes, Tiber Septim is the prime example of CHIM, just after Vivec himself.
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    Default Re: Grand Old Army (Napolean) vs Tamriel

    when it comes down to it i look at the books and lore in the game not the limitations of the game it self to produce an army and the scope of a population in these sorts of questions. im sure if this was all us reading a book of fiction in the elder scrolls universe then these cities would be much larger and more well filled in. look at the amount of legions that tiber septim had when he took tamriel for himself. he had several legions, cavalry, and mages and such. huge group, that if we took all the characters we see in say oblivion, could not make an equal number, its the games limitation, not the fictions.

    now we take in just the history and a post civil war skyrim, with legate Dragonborn a battle hardened imperial legion, with general Tullus and the hard armies of the dominion with warriors from hammerfell, which is an independent nation now. i believe they would come out on top. not to mention what random dragon attacks would do to the French armies moral alone.

    so i give it to Tamriel and the dragonborn led armies to drive the french back home, and remember tamriel has hard tough armor and once they get close, bye bye soldiers wearing nothing but shirts.

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