Mercenary Pen's Meticulously Planned Machine of Prose Random Banter #182

[Rawhide]

using the wrong word, greatest possible sin, etc etc

Auto correct.

[Dimonite]

using the wrong word, greatest possible sin, etc etc

I was going to jump on that, but now it would seem repetitive. CURSE YOU PERSON I DON'T KNOW!

[Saithis Bladewing]

If you have a third symbol on your keyboard like my UK one, you can use the Alt Gr to type those instead (that's how you type the € symbol, for example.)

[MoonCat]

I fail to see how what she said deviates from that pattern...[/programming joke]

Stop being sorry, everyone can't keep track of me all the time, and this isn't even close to one of the more egregious cases.

And, I think that the fact that I'm always willing to help, no matter if the asker is way ahead of me in what we're doing or if helping means that I'll have to go up 3 hours earlier in the morning, while I also tend to know what I'm doing, has made me the one you first turn to with any questions. And I help, because I feel obliged to. Just as you feel inadequate because you can't breeze through every subject, I can't help but feel that I must compensate for being able to...

Also, from the You thread:
It's tradition to write a few last words in your friends' student hats. They can be anything from a thank for something he did in the last three years, a statement about him being missed or just some general pep talk. I even got a mildly flirtatious message from someone who didn't write her (I assume) name. I'm still intrigued by the origins of that message, but I'm too insecure about it to start any investigations. Or even mention it to any of my old friends...

He has an insight modifier of +14. He might not be the most empathic person, nor even care half of the time, but when he does, he reads you like a book. Also, I can allow myself to be wrong through Elden, which means that I can afford to guess, and I think I'm better than bad at it when I actually dare to. In real life, being wrong hurts me more than knowing that I don't know...

<is still sorry>

I see.

I saw those pics, but I missed any writing on them, evidently.

I hate being wrong. It makes me very, very pissy.

Er....yes and yes. Sorry

... I ONLY use LaLa. Tellitubby jokes!
Blurghle. I accuse him of being batman.

Ah, well, I never read your posts.

Ugh. If he gets any more fancy gadgets I'll gladly take up the role of Joker.

Working on it, Moon.

*hugs*

<hugs> I'M REALLY SORRY

No, you didn't. There was absolutely nothing obvious about a wish to no longer continue any discussion related to the academic argument at all (not even to find common ground), especially as you continued to argue it after the fact. I wasn't even continuing to argue the definition, just point out where the confusion may lie (as those terms do relate to what you were saying).

And about what you said after the fact, etymology seems to suggest that "unsocial" seems to have been the first use of the word anti-social (with hyphen), so it would be best if we found a different word for antisocial personality disorder and antisocial behaviour to avoid confusion.

Please don't take this as disrespecting a mod, but maybe you should back off Teddy. If he doesn't wanna talk about it, even if you think he's being illogical, maybe you should respect that.

Please don't ban me.

[Rawhide]

Please don't take this as disrespecting a mod, but maybe you should back off Teddy. If he doesn't wanna talk about it, even if you think he's being illogical, maybe you should respect that.

Please don't ban me.

In the first instance, there was nothing obvious about it. The smallannoyed smiley was unwarranted. And if you're going to back out of a discussion, you should simply so you no longer wish to discuss it, not 'I no longer wish to discuss it, but I will throw this one last point out which, because I no longer wish to discuss it, means it can't be refuted'. The latter is an invitation to continue the discussion on the new point.

[Teddy]

No, you didn't. There was absolutely nothing obvious about a wish to no longer continue any discussion related to the academic argument at all (not even to find common ground), especially as you continued to argue it after the fact. I wasn't even continuing to argue the definition, just point out where the confusion may lie (as those terms do relate to what you were saying).

And about what you said after the fact, etymology seems to suggest that "unsocial" seems to have been the first use of the word anti-social (with hyphen), so it would be best if we found a different word for antisocial personality disorder and antisocial behaviour to avoid confusion.

I wrote this in response to your list of dictionaries:

...
I just realised a very annoying thing with Internet discussions: There're very few ways to concede with grace if you still don't quite agree with the point. You can just leave the discussion, but that's pretty much the equivalent to ragequitting, and since you lack the ability to express a tone of voice, it's hard to show a wish to end the discussion without having to write "I CONCEDE" all over the place...

There are three ways of interpretting this as far as I'm aware: as a way of saying "I concede even though I don't quite agree", as an insinuation that the only reason to why you keep arguing is that there's no way for you to concede with grace, or as a non-sequitor. Seeing as neither you nor I am spewing non-sense, I seriously hope that it isn't all too hard to guess what I was aiming at.

The "continued arguing" was a minor observation (not an argument, I wasn't trying to prove a point) and a short explanation to why I wouldn't say that you made a good point, which is because I didn't think it was good, just something I can't disagree with for a number of reasons. If I would, it'd only boil down to a discussion about my opinion on what's the best definition of a word, which is a futile effort as opinions, per definition, can't be objectively wrong.

<is still sorry>

There's no way I can talk you out of that, is there? :smallshrug:

I saw those pics, but I missed any writing on them, evidently.

It's on the inside, silly. Wouldn't want to tarnish the pure, white outside of my treasured student hat, would I?

I hate being wrong. It makes me very, very pissy.

For me, it's just a bad feeling in the guts. Being wrong about another person hurts a bit more than being wrong in general, however, as my brain races to assess how badly that person is going to think of me afterwards. It doesn't matter if it's something as minor as thinking that you were sad when you were a bit down, I still think I screwed something up really badly.

[Cobra_Ikari]

In the first instance, there was nothing obvious about it. The smallannoyed smiley was unwarranted. And if you're going to back out of a discussion, you should simply so you no longer wish to discuss it, not 'I no longer wish to discuss it, but I will throw this one last point out which, because I no longer wish to discuss it, means it can't be refuted'. The latter is an invitation to continue the discussion on the new point.

But the new point was just "There's a bit of inconsistency in primary or secondary definitions in different dictionaries, I personally prefer this particular meaning". It's not really a debatable or refutable point, it's a preference. It just felt a little bit...jerky for you to come back and try to shut down his opinion after he no longer wants to debate it. >.>

*hugs*...sorry. =\

[MoonCat]

There's no way I can talk you out of that, is there? :smallshrug:

It's on the inside, silly. Wouldn't want to tarnish the pure, white outside of my treasured student hat, would I?

For me, it's just a bad feeling in the guts. Being wrong about another person hurts a bit more than being wrong in general, however, as my brain races to assess how badly that person is going to think of me afterwards. It doesn't matter if it's something as minor as thinking that you were sad when you were a bit down, I still think I screwed something up really badly.

not really. I apologize when people tell me it's annoying that I keep apologizing. And then I apologize for that, and then I swear, and the apologize again. Then they get mad at me.

<hugs> nothing I can say will help here, so <hugs>

[LaZodiac]

not really. I apologize when people tell me it's annoying that I keep apologizing. And then I apologize for that, and then I swear, and the apologize again. Then they get mad at me.

<hugs> nothing I can say will help here, so <hugs>

I do the same. I also apologize for things that aren't exactly related to me too

[HalfTangible]

Want to go home... Need to do homework... But don't want to see family friends there...

[Rawhide]

Teddy: Say something, don't insinuate. Insinuation is inadequate. Additionally, what we had was a friendly academic argument, there was no aggression involved. That was far from the politest way to end your involvement in the discussion.

But the new point was just "There's a bit of inconsistency in primary or secondary definitions in different dictionaries, I personally prefer this particular meaning". It's not really a debatable or refutable point, it's a preference. It just felt a little bit...jerky for you to come back and try to shut down his opinion after he no longer wants to debate it. >.>

*hugs*...sorry. =\

And this is the whole point. I'm not trying to shut him down in any way. I highlighted two terms where his definition does apply, and highlighted that all he has is a preference which can't be forced upon others.

Teddy has made his argument and "concession" to be "I don't want it to be that way, therefore it isn't that way", rather than "I don't want it to be that way, but can see that it is used that way".

[Mutant Sheep]

Teddy: Say something, don't insinuate. Insinuation is inadequate. Additionally, what we had was a friendly academic argument, there was no aggression involved. That was far from the politest way to end your involvement in the discussion.

Explicitly Insinuate? /did that once

[Teddy]

Teddy: Say something, don't insinuate. Insinuation is inadequate. Additionally, what we had was a friendly academic argument, there was no aggression involved. That was far from the politest way to end your involvement in the discussion.

Yes, in retrospect, I could have done so, and doing so would probably have been prudent. I just wanted to share with you my realisation that it actually is hard to just make people know that you (the non-specific you that in this specific case refers to me) realise that you're (I'm) wrong and that everyone just should go on with their business because there's no point in continuing the discussion, and decided to bake the two parts together into one. Apparently, it didn't work as well as intended.

And I fail to see how a concession about being wrong is impolite.

Unless you refer to saying that I don't think your point was good, which, well, I suppose it could be seen as such. It's just that put value in calling something good (when I say it's good, I mean it), and I put value in being honest about what you (I) think, and I didn't think that you made a compelling argument for why "antisocial" should be used to describe something that at least I think is better described as "not social" rather than "against social(-isation)". You just listed a lot of definitions, and I can't argue against them being right (which is a matter of fact, or at least as close to fact as you can get when language is concerned), and I didn't feel like arguing if they should be changed for something else (which is a matter of opinion), so I just opted to concede where it came to facts and settle on disagreement where it came to opinion.

And if you're talking about the annoyed smilie, try to see it from my side. I thought I'd made it clear that I conceded and didn't wish to continue, and yet you responded with a theory about how I could've gotten things wrong. In my eyes, you just came off as pushy, which is what got me annoyed in the first case.

Teddy has made his argument and "concession" to be "I don't want it to be that way, therefore it isn't that way", rather than "I don't want it to be that way, but can see that it is used that way".

I never said anything like that after your list of definitions. I posted an observation, stated my preferences and stated that while I didn't think your point was good, I couldn't continue arguing it without being wrong. Nowhere in there do I try to force my definition onto anyone else. At least not as far as I can see. Please point out where I did so, because I really don't want to make such an impression.

I'm really concerned about this. It's 4 o'clock in the morning over here and I feel that I won't be able to get any sleep before this is all sorted out. So please, if you've got time, quote everything I said and highlight what I did wrong because I feel like an idiot right now and I really want to improve and be able to put this all behind myself, but that's hard when I can't figure out exactly what I'm doing wrong...

[Rawhide]

Ahha, I think I see what has happened here.


Your wording initially was "this is the way it is". Your wording in the concession posts implied "I'm going to pretend to concede, but not really concede because I still think I'm right and that is the way it is, but I'm also going to make it obvious that I'm not really conceding, and this is an extra point I'm going to raise". Also, by saying that I didn't make a good point, you undermine and removes any kind of concession. To concede a position, a good point has to have been made. It may not be a point you wish existed, but in this case was a point which did exist.

I'm not saying that's what you meant, just how the phrasing of it worked out.


I ignored what was implied by the wording, but did not see that you truly were finished and accepted that there was a different meaning which you preferred didn't exist - that part wasn't clear.

[LaZodiac]

Everyone gets a big group hug!

[Cobra_Ikari]

Everyone gets a big group hug!

An extra big, bold, italic, and underlined one.

When Zodi hugs, she means BUSINESS. =P

*snuggles all* =3

[Rawhide]

Everyone gets a big group hug!

I'll be in on that.

[Teddy]

Ahha, I think I see what has happened here.


Your wording initially was "this is the way it is". Your wording in the concession posts implied "I'm going to pretend to concede, but not really concede because I still think I'm right and that is the way it is, but I'm also going to make it obvious that I'm not really conceding, and this is an extra point I'm going to raise".

I'm not saying that's what you meant, just how the phrasing of it worked out.


I ignored what was implied by the wording, but did not see that you truly were finished and accepted that there was a different meaning which you preferred didn't exist - that part wasn't clear.

Thanks! I suppose... I suppose I can calm down now. It seems that assumption of mallicious intent got the best of both of us...

And now that you point it out, I realise that I never actually stated any concession, and thus could have used the realisation as a way to weasel myself out of an unpleasant situation. Argh, I've on several occations been suggested that I should become a lawyer just because I have a knack for finding holes in people's statements and demands, how could I be so blind for this one? *facepalm*

[LaZodiac]

Thanks! I suppose... I suppose I can calm down now. It seems that assumption of mallicious intent got the best of both of us...

And now that you point it out, I realise that I never actually stated any concession, and thus could have used the realisation as a way to weasel myself out of an unpleasant situation. Argh, I've on several occations been suggested that I should become a lawyer just because I have a knack for finding holes in people's statements and demands, how could I be so blind for this one? *facepalm*

Get in the group hug damnit!

[Kneenibble]

Ah yes. Working in the garden all day to the stink of marijuana smoke from the neighbours. While three of their seven daughters, age 12, 6, and 4 are playing right there on their trampoline. I just came from the backyard and they are still perfuming it.

Their house is subsidized by the government, too. ****. This. City.

Get in the group hug damnit!

I could really use some of this. *dives in the middle*

[Teddy]

Get in the group hug damnit!

Fine, although it has to be a short one. It's almost half past five over here, and I think I'm calm enough to go to bed now...

*bearhugs*

Alright, good night, everyone! Or early morning, I suppose...

[Kneenibble]

Fine, although it has to be a short one. It's almost half past five over here, and I think I'm calm enough to go to bed now...

*bearhugs*

Alright, good night, everyone! Or early morning, I suppose...

Goodnight, sötnos!

You can blame H_Birchgrove for teaching me that one.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Ah yes. Working in the garden all day to the stink of marijuana smoke from the neighbours. While three of their seven daughters, age 12, 6, and 4 are playing right there on their trampoline. I just came from the backyard and they are still perfuming it.

Their house is subsidized by the government, too. ****. This. City.



I could really use some of this. *dives in the middle*

*hugs tight*...I'm sorry to hear that, Kneen. It's unfortunate to see kids raised in a situation like that. =\

...wait, you garden? =3

[Coidzor]

I have just had to buy a baby monitor. And not because of any sprog, either.

Get in the group hug damnit!

...ok...

[Mynxae]

Get in the group hug damnit!

Okay *tackles everyone to the ground with love and err, loveliness*

[Amidus Drexel]

Okay *tackles everyone to the ground with love and err, loveliness*

I'm going to put my dodge bonus against Mynxae and ready an action to 5ft away...

[Mynxae]

*readies lazer beam of friendliness and care*

[Kneenibble]

*hugs tight*...I'm sorry to hear that, Kneen. It's unfortunate to see kids raised in a situation like that. =\

...wait, you garden? =3

*hugs* Their daughters are 6/7 wonderful little cuddlebugs, too. They're so nice to me. I hate seeing the danger of the pattern the parents present, though, and thinking about how they might grow up. Some sketchy **** happens at that house.

I do indeed, sweetscales. Gardening is my #1 hobby.

*readies lazer beam of friendliness and care*

BURN ME WITH IT

[Cobra_Ikari]

*hugs* Their daughters are 6/7 wonderful little cuddlebugs, too. They're so nice to me. I hate seeing the danger of the pattern the parents present, though, and thinking about how they might grow up. Some sketchy **** happens at that house.

I do indeed, sweetscales. Gardening is my #1 hobby.

Ah, yeah. I think the thing that scares me most about parents are negligent ones, though. I had a random memory from a few years back when I almost ran over a toddler. I had been pulling into a parking spot, and the driver next to me threw open their door and got out, so I stopped halfway into the spot and waited for them to get out of the way. In the meantime, someone on the other side let a small child out of the car who, while the driver was generally wasting time, crawled around the front of their car to sit in front of mine. None of this was ever visible to someone in my car. It was only after the driver'd gotten out of the way, and I waited for a few moments because I wasn't in any rush, that I noticed the kid crawl out from in front of my car and get picked up by the passenger. The fact that I could have killed a child because their parents weren't paying attention really terrifies me still. =\

Really? What do you garden? =3

And don't be silly, it's at best #3. Everyone knows your top hobbies are being classily depraved yet sexily irresistible, and playing with adorable budgies.

[Kneenibble]

Ah, yeah. I think the thing that scares me most about parents are negligent ones, though. I had a random memory from a few years back when I almost ran over a toddler. I had been pulling into a parking spot, and the driver next to me threw open their door and got out, so I stopped halfway into the spot and waited for them to get out of the way. In the meantime, someone on the other side let a small child out of the car who, while the driver was generally wasting time, crawled around the front of their car to sit in front of mine. None of this was ever visible to someone in my car. It was only after the driver'd gotten out of the way, and I waited for a few moments because I wasn't in any rush, that I noticed the kid crawl out from in front of my car and get picked up by the passenger. The fact that I could have killed a child because their parents weren't paying attention really terrifies me still. =\

Good Lord. That is disturbing. I'm happy nothing horrible happened, though.

Really? What do you garden? =3

And don't be silly, it's at best #3. Everyone knows your top hobbies are being classily depraved yet sexily irresistible, and playing with adorable budgies.

*hugs and cuddles*

I garden everything. Vegetables, fruits, flowers, perennials. My [other] neighbour is an immigrant from Germany who has been growing the seeds she brought with her for 50+ years, and we talk about our gardens whenever we see each other.