Mercenary Pen's Meticulously Planned Machine of Prose Random Banter #182

[LaZodiac]

How can one be both blunt and to the point? Aren't they mutually exclusive concepts?

Oh, interpreting cultural idioms literally is fun.

Blunt and too the point actually are the same thing. If someone's got a bad hair style, being blunt is saying "your hair's crap". Being straight and too the point is also saying "your hair's crap"

[Rawhide]

What's wrong with just dropping a subject of conversation? Especially one that's gotten multiple people angry?

From what I can gather, Pokemon-freak89 did not mean what he said. However, he has not said that clearly and apologised properly. In fact, he has used a line which is an absolute cop out, a way to not say something which I would deem very important in this situation.

If he does not accept the mistake and apologise properly, then it will leave open wounds and hurt. If he does, then any reasonable person could be expected to forgive or start to forgive.

[HalfTangible]

Blunt and too the point actually are the same thing. If someone's got a bad hair style, being blunt is saying "your hair's crap". Being straight and too the point is also saying "your hair's crap"

Read his second sentence again. He was joking

From what I can gather, Pokemon-freak89 did not mean what he said. However, he has not said that clearly and apologised properly. In fact, he has used a line which is an absolute cop out, a way to not say something which I would deem very important in this situation.

If he does not accept the mistake and apologise properly, then it will leave open wounds and hurt. If he does, then any reasonable person could be expected to forgive or start to forgive.

In my experience, attempting to apologize only makes matters worse when people already know you know you've made a mistake. Mostly because it makes things worse in general.

A reasonable person would already see (as you have) that he didn't mean what he said, and an UNreasonable person probably wouldn't forgive a person even if they DID apologize. Dropping the subject SHOULD be good enough.

[Heliomance]

What's wrong with just dropping a subject of conversation? Especially one that's gotten multiple people angry?

I'm with HT on this one, Rawhide. The subject was finished, it didn't need a "how to apologise" lecture tagged onto the end. Just let it lie.

[LaZodiac]

Read his second sentence again. He was joking

Aaah, my bad. I didn't understand his point their

[Rawhide]

I'm with HT on this one, Rawhide. The subject was finished, it didn't need a "how to apologise" lecture tagged onto the end. Just let it lie.

I strongly disagree, particularly since Pokemon-freak89 is misunderstood so often. We take extra stept to help those who need it.

In my experience, attempting to apologize only makes matters worse when people already know you know you've made a mistake. Mostly because it makes things worse in general.

A reasonable person would already see (as you have) that he didn't mean what he said, and an UNreasonable person probably wouldn't forgive a person even if they DID apologize. Dropping the subject SHOULD be good enough.

Then your experience is the opposite of just about every experience I've had and heard about, as well as everything you are generally trained to do.

Someone admitting that they have made a mistake and making a genuine apology will, in most cases, make things better (not necessarily healed, but better), while backing away and saying nothing will make matters worse. Using a line which is a cop out will make matters even worse.

[HalfTangible]

I strongly disagree, particularly since Pokemon-freak89 is misunderstood so often. We take extra stept to help those who need it.

Extra help does not seem to be required here. Dropping subjects that make yourself and/or others angry is a valid method of social interaction. It's how I've managed to keep myself on this forum and not banned from it (like the last three) for over 2 years.

[Amidus Drexel]

Aaah, my bad. I didn't understand his point their

Don't worry about it too much; most of the things I say deserve bluetext. Maybe, maybe not.

[Heliomance]

If memory serves, you were the only person who had a problem with Teddy's line in the first place. I know I interpreted it as a holding up of the hands, a "Alright, I was wrong, sorry, I'm out." And I see nothing wrong with that as a response.

[Rawhide]

Extra help does not seem to be required here. Dropping subjects that make yourself and/or others angry is a valid method of social interaction. It's how I've managed to keep myself on this forum and not banned from it (like the last three) for over 2 years.

People are hurt and angry over what he said, he didn't apologise gracefully, people were still hurt, the conversation when on for longer than it should. How could this not be a time to intervene and help for the future? He has made many silly mistakes in the past, but he has shown that he wants to be here and abide by the rules and I believe that he is more than capable of understanding them and learning from his mistakes.

Remember, I'm not telling him off. I will make it very clear when I'm telling someone off.

If memory serves, you were the only person who had a problem with Teddy's line in the first place. I know I interpreted it as a holding up of the hands, a "Alright, I was wrong, sorry, I'm out." And I see nothing wrong with that as a response.

How could "still don't quite agree with the point" and "I don't think he made a good point" be interpreted any other way?

[Thajocoth]

There're very few ways to concede with grace if you still don't quite agree with the point.

He actually stated the reverse of an apology by quoting that quote.

Those were just the examples I could think of. There are plenty of actually warning-less ones I have stumbled up-

I took from this part that he still has a problem with other topics on this board.

...Wait. Are you saying that the LGBT thread isn't about sex?

Because if it's about relationships in general, then it and the thread you mentioned are both fine, but seem to violate the "one topic, one thread" rule.

And from this, I gathered that he ceased to have a problem with that particular thread.

[Cobra_Ikari]

I think what was hurtful with what Pokemon said wasn't anything in the apology, but that his statement was "Eww, this stuff is disgusting, I thought we were supposed to remain PG-13, how can this be ALLOWED?!" about a thread he'd never stepped into, or read, based solely on prejudice. Made more offensive by the fact that the thread he chose to direct this at is a thread designed to be a safe space for people who are already subjected to a lot of prejudicial judgment. So, yes, the apology was a cop-out, but prejudicial behavior should be the thing we're trying to head off more than pseudo-apologies trying to save face.

Although, Rawhide, I still feel you were a bit out of line in your statement to Teddy earlier. You...occasionally have a bit of a habit of...erm...being not-entirely sensitive to other people's feelings when you're talking with them, and occasionally err on the side of pushing things too far, or being a tiny bit offensive. Just saying. >.>

[Tragic_Comedian]

Friends, friends, can't we just let bygones be bygones?

[Mutant Sheep]

I'd suggest hugs, but no one wants to hug me.

[Tragic_Comedian]

I'd suggest hugs, but no one wants to hug me.

I'll hug you, Choff.

[Rawhide]

I think what was hurtful with what Pokemon said wasn't anything in the apology, but that his statement was "Eww, this stuff is disgusting, I thought we were supposed to remain PG-13, how can this be ALLOWED?!" about a thread he'd never stepped into, or read, based solely on prejudice. Made more offensive by the fact that the thread he chose to direct this at is a thread designed to be a safe space for people who are already subjected to a lot of prejudicial judgment. So, yes, the apology was a cop-out, but prejudicial behavior should be the thing we're trying to head off more than pseudo-apologies trying to save face.

And this is one very important reason I stepped in. If Pokemon-freak89 recognised the mistake clearly and made a genuine apology, and showed that he is willing to learn and get past prejudices, then wouldn't things be much better?

And on the same token, shouldn't you be less offended at a pre-existing prejudice and more focused on helping them learn and get past it, especially if they have shown that they are willing to accept their mistakes and learn from it?

Although, Rawhide, I still feel you were a bit out of line in your statement to Teddy earlier. You...occasionally have a bit of a habit of...erm...being not-entirely sensitive to other people's feelings when you're talking with them, and occasionally err on the side of pushing things too far, or being a tiny bit offensive. Just saying. >.>

And you do realise that nothing I said was an insult or "telling off"? There was nothing hostile in the discussion from my end, at all.

[Cobra_Ikari]

I'd suggest hugs, but no one wants to hug me.

I hug everyone. It's kinda my thing.

*snuggles better*

[HalfTangible]

And this is one very important reason I stepped in. If Pokemon-freak89 recognised the mistake clearly and made a genuine apology, and showed that he is willing to learn and get past prejudices, then wouldn't things be much better?

No, no they wouldn't. Apologies don't make anything better because they don't change anything - apologizing for blowing up someone's car doesn't fix the car, apologizing because you said something hurtful doesn't make it less hurtful, especially when you just want the conversation to stop.

And on the same token, shouldn't you be less offended at a pre-existing prejudice and more focused on helping them learn and get past it, especially if they have shown that they are willing to accept their mistakes and learn from it?

Uh, he TRIED to get past it. You then gave him a lecture on proper apologies. YOU seem to be the one focused on his "previous prejudice", as you put it

[Heliomance]

Although, Rawhide, I still feel you were a bit out of line in your statement to Teddy earlier. You...occasionally have a bit of a habit of...erm...being not-entirely sensitive to other people's feelings when you're talking with them, and occasionally err on the side of pushing things too far, or being a tiny bit offensive. Just saying. >.>

I think this is the problem, right here. This is the most diffident, hesitant criticism I've ever seen. Rawhide, if anyone else said the things you said to Teddy, or to Pokemon-freak89, we'd have jerked them up short, and asked them to be more polite. But we can't do that with you because you're the Administrator, you're so far above us that we don't dare to attract your wrath. You act like one of us, you try to be just one of the posters, but we can't ever forget that you are Admin, merely one step below God - or Giant, as the case may be.

[Dimonite]

HUMANS. BE NICE.

I like it better when we're not fighting.
*hides in the corner*

[Mutant Sheep]

Guys can we just drop it? /teddy's the discussion on how teddy'ing is not the best solution

Also, Rawhide is like, one step under Roland. Cuz Roland is a saint.

[HalfTangible]

Also, Rawhide is like, one step under Roland. Cuz Roland is a saint.

I tried to make that joke with the Showdown song and nobody caught it

[Amidus Drexel]

HUMANS. BE NICE.

I like it better when we're not fighting.
*hides in the corner*

But... the fighting is so fun to watch...

[Rawhide]

I think this is the problem, right here. This is the most diffident, hesitant criticism I've ever seen. Rawhide, if anyone else said the things you said to Teddy, or to Pokemon-freak89, we'd have jerked them up short, and asked them to be more polite. But we can't do that with you because you're the Administrator, you're so far above us that we don't dare to attract your wrath. You act like one of us, you try to be just one of the posters, but we can't ever forget that you are Admin, merely one step below God - or Giant, as the case may be.

And if people spent effort trying to understand others, rather than ruffling their feathers at percieved slights over misunderstandings and "jerking them up short", then none of this would have happened. I've said absolutely nothing against either of them.

No, no they wouldn't. Apologies don't make anything better because they don't change anything - apologizing for blowing up someone's car doesn't fix the car, apologizing because you said something hurtful doesn't make it less hurtful, especially when you just want the conversation to stop.

Apologising for accidentally blowing up someone's car, when there was no intent to blow up anything or you were legally performing some experiment and all safety precautions were taken to the best of your knowledge, does not fix the car but goes a long way towards repairing any hurt, as long as the apology is genuine.

Apologising for saying something hurtful when you had no intention of hurting people and you have learned from your mistake, or you were a bigot previously and now are learning from your mistakes and see what you've done wrong, does not make the words unsaid, but it does go a long way to repairing any hurt, if you are genuine in your apology and follow it up with actions.

Uh, he TRIED to get past it. You then gave him a lecture on proper apologies. YOU seem to be the one focused on his "previous prejudice", as you put it

Don't try to twist this around, none of my words meant anything like that.

He tried and failed to get past it properly. He issued a non-apology, as already mentioned it is in fact a reverse of an apology (what he quoted in this case actually means "I don't agree with you, but I'm going to leave the conversation now while not agreeing with you").

I don't believe this is what he meant. I believe he is sorry. I believe he wants to learn. I believe if people like Cobra_Ikari* can see this, and help him get past his preconceived notions, he will become a better person for it.


*Not implying that Cobra_Ikari is a bad person in any way, just referring to an earlier post where he said he was still offended. Understanding goes both ways.

[AsteriskAmp]

I like it better when we're not fighting.
*hides in the corner*

Au contraire mon ami, add some popcorn and a nice seat in the mezzanine and you'll see the enjoyable difference. Much more fun to watch then snails doing a salt maze.

[Mutant Sheep]

But... the fighting is so fun to watch...

Indeed. It IS a good distraction from this HOMEWORK AUGH *cries*.

I tried to make that joke with the Showdown song and nobody caught it

Haha! My jokes are more obvious!

[Thajocoth]

Guys can we just drop it? /teddy's the discussion on how teddy'ing is not the best solution

Also, Rawhide is like, one step under Roland. Cuz Roland is a saint.

The easiest way to get something dropped is to change the topic. Unfortunately, I don't have anything interesting to switch to, but I'd love to talk about something else.

[Amidus Drexel]

The easiest way to get something dropped is to change the topic. Unfortunately, I don't have anything interesting to switch to, but I'd love to talk about something else.

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

[Mutant Sheep]

The easiest way to get something dropped is to change the topic. Unfortunately, I don't have anything interesting to switch to, but I'd love to talk about something else.

Sub discussion about "the gays" so we can get told by Rawhide to move it to the LGBT thread?

Also, MUSIC! AND LIFE THINGS THAT ARENT DEPRESSING!

[Cobra_Ikari]

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

I used to play clarinet. I attempted to teach myself bass guitar. I am...extremely bad at it, but it's still fun. =3