The traditional Dresden Files tv/movie thread

[Soras Teva Gee]

The Fedora is the exclusive domain of the legendary Cover Art Harry, who will one day battle Book Harry for dominance.

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

[Eldan]

Hm.

Book cover Harry must be evil inner monologue Harry who already showed up. That one was mentioned to be better dressed and "cooler" looking. So I guess he gets the hat and burning runes on his staff.

[BRC]

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

True. It's got too wide/flat a brim for a Fedora, and sometimes it has a ring of Medallion type things around it. "Cowboy Hat" does fit better.

The point is, the Apocalyptic Trilogy will be the battle between Book Harry and Cover Art Harry.

[Soras Teva Gee]

True. It's got too wide/flat a brim for a Fedora, and sometimes it has a ring of Medallion type things around it. "Cowboy Hat" does fit better.

The point is, the Apocalyptic Trilogy will be the battle between Book Harry and Cover Art Harry.

I think a worn Boss of the Plains is perhaps the best fit for the art, cowboy hat itself being a little too vague.

At any rate the hat is clearly the Big Bad of the entire series. Ramirez even called the Circle the "Black Hats" remember? Clearly he has some psychic virginal (spoiler!) insight.

[BRC]

We could just call it a "Stetson".

Hrmm, more evidence

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One of the "Dark Moments" For Harry was at the training camp where he basically tortured a ghoul to death for killing one of the warden trainees.

This training camp was in an Old West Boomtown, the type of place where they wore COWBOY HATS!

In Dead Beat, Harry's reason for not joining Grevane is that he "Didn't Like his Hat". Grevane was wearing a similar Hat, if I recall correctly.
Clearly the Hat symbolizes Evil.

Later, in Dead Beat, he uses Necromacy to raise Zombie Sue. It wasn't a human, so it was kind of a grey area. Central to this magi-morally dubious plan was a saddle he got from a Wild West exhibit. He then took this saddle, and went to fight Indian Ghosts, all with a secret agenda to deliver the Word of Kemmler to a Vampire.

Clearly, Cowboys in general, and The Hat in particular, are Evil.

[Soras Teva Gee]

We could just call it a "Stetson".

Stetsons are both a company and a pretty specific style. Most notably they are stiff, have the very pronounced ridges ontop (or whatever they are) and tall proportions.

Hat. Types. Are. Serious. Business.

[Avilan the Grey]

Also saying Fedora conjures something a bit too gangster and not enough cowboy.

Why would there be Cowboy?

[Tyndmyr]

WHY are people arguing about anime and western styles in a Dresden styles thread?

Seriously its completely besides the point as both east and west have a variety of styles, many of which would be unsuited for reasons that have nothing to do with origin or the differences between the art styles as a whole.

I seriously challenge anyone to say that between say the OOTS (western), my ponytar (a fusion), and this guy (eastern) that the last one is somehow not the most appropriate style of the three for anything Dresdenverse.

Now yes those aren't maybe the fairest examples, but I chose two highly simplified styles to note that the range is not so simple as west or east.

I submit that that a fine line between realism and an stylized-noir feeling is what an animated Dresdenverse needs.

The realistic conclusion is that none of those three styles is anything like what dresden files should have.

[Mauve Shirt]

Why not make the style similar to the comics?

[Aidan305]

Nice style for comics, not so sure that would be a good style for animation.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Why would there be Cowboy?

Because both Harry and his evil hat wearing duplicate dress like they belong on the set of El Dorado.

The realistic conclusion is that none of those three styles is anything like what dresden files should have.

Which is all well and good to say but it rapidly starts to become an unreachable standard because nothing will satisfy.

I see it all the time, people work up their "perfect" vision of something and then are never satisfied when the actual result doesn't match their mental vision.

Talking about styles that actually *exist* for animation I know I'd have to pick the style of several animes as the best fits I've seen for Dresden Files. The best western style off the top of my head I can recall is B:TAS which even that is just a bit too abstractly styled for my tastes. Maybe some of the recent DC movie animations? Problem really being that at the end of the day western animation simply has not been used to ape live action the way certain anime do because they'd sooner do live action.

And I for one don't think live action is best suited for the Dresden Files.

Why not make the style similar to the comics?

Put simply: easier said then done.

I'd say that pic particularly unsuited to animation, its way to static in its own way. No criticism there, just that while easily the closest mediums animation and comics still have their differences because one has to move the other doesn't.

Now certainly there are ways to get fairly close, just the ones I think of that are the best matches are all eastern ones.

[Mauve Shirt]

Quite true with the easier said than done. I can see it being stylized enough that it turns out like, say, Batman TAS, or other competent comic book cartoons.

Really, it's silly to say that anime is any less stylized or more realistic than any other cartoon style. Too-long limbs, living hairstyles, unrealistic motion and pointed chins with huge eyeballs instead of bold lines, blocky shapes, unrealistic motion and faces shaped to fit a personality instead of hair shaped to fit a personality.

[Tyndmyr]

Which is all well and good to say but it rapidly starts to become an unreachable standard because nothing will satisfy.

Cmon now...we're jumping from three styles not working to "nothing will satisfy"? That doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

Many, many other styles exist. Any number of them, including the style used on the comic book would be better than any of those three.

[Mauve Shirt]

Btw, the best thing to watch if you want a Dresden Files movie is, no joke, The Sorcerer's Apprentice. That movie, while completely meh plot-wise, looks like a test run of possible Dresden special effects.
Nick Cage as Dresden would be a disaster though.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Quite true with the easier said than done. I can see it being stylized enough that it turns out like, say, Batman TAS, or other competent comic book cartoons.

I know for my money B:TAS is a good example of how western animation even when being 'realistic' has a level of abstraction to the designs. The DCAU started doing timeless noir and transitioned to sort of timeless ray-gun sci-fi, both made to work well.

Dresden needs something modern and idw punk(?) or something. Perhaps the best I can describe it, the Dresden Files don't go in much for Gun Porn but I feel like the Dresdenverse is a place where it would be very appropriate. And if you don't dare tread on a trope page I will simply point out Western Animation only has one entry... that I don't even think belongs there.

To come at it from another angle while I don't wish to link them too closely I have seen anime that could be made by Quentin Tarantino and I have never seen that in western styles. And that sort of aesthetic is closer to the Dresden Files.

Though the best fits of all are the perhaps some of the urban magic series like Fate/zero or Hellsing... which are closer stylistically the aforementioned Gun Porn and Taratino-esque shows like Black Lagoon then anything in the DCAU.

(I invoke Gun Porn because the working title for the Dresden Files was "Semi-Auto Magick" at one point wasn't it?)

[Avilan the Grey]

Because both Harry and his evil hat wearing duplicate dress like they belong on the set of El Dorado.

Not making him a cowboy.

Anyway, style-verse: How about going back to the classics? **** Tracy style?

[BRC]

Not making him a cowboy.

Anyway, style-verse: How about going back to the classics? **** Tracy style?

We're not saying Dresden is a cowboy.

We're saying that Cover-Dresden wears a Cowboy Hat. "Cowboy vs Gangster" was in reference to the Hat, nothing else.
Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Cmon now...we're jumping from three styles not working to "nothing will satisfy"? That doesn't seem ridiculous to you?

Many, many other styles exist. Any number of them, including the style used on the comic book would be better than any of those three.

Hey I've just seen it too many times.

Not that I'm not nessecarily indulging in a little of the same. I picked the Kiritsugu Emiya picture because he looks a lot like Harry would in an anime and Fate/zero's style is probably what I'd pick for animating the Dresdenverse. Not perfect, maybe a touch too humorless, but then Harry's snark will be hard to do on-screen period. I also have others out there I'd settle for, the Hellsing animations (either) or the Certain Magical/Scientific Index/Railgun people.

My point I think remains, its waaaay too easy to just pick a nebulous-non-specific answer like some other style. We can't weigh the respective merits of two styles when one doesn't *technically* exist.

Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.

Now this is a good point.

Of course we can also shelf a lot of the descriptions. We reaaallly don't need to know Marcone has eyes the color of old dollar bills every time he shows up. I'm not bothered by big descriptive passages all that much (I AM a WoT fan) but I do like them to be different!

[Avilan the Grey]

We're not saying Dresden is a cowboy.

We're saying that Cover-Dresden wears a Cowboy Hat.

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).

[Prime32]

Personally, I'm not sure any animated thing could properly handle the Dresdenverse. The books use Harry's narration to provide worldbuilding, humor, and to set the tone of a scene. You can pull that off with Comics (I've read the Dresden Files comics, and they're pretty good), but anything live-action is going to be difficult to pause the action every time the audience needs to be reminded what a Red Court Vampire is.

Meh. A lot of anime are adapted from Light Novels, and Light Novel protagonists can have up to ten times the amount of worldbuilding narration that Harry has. Sure the anime miss out on some random tidbits, but most studios can keep the tone perfectly well.

For instance, in an adaptation there's no need to narrate every time he appears that Bob is not a skull but a knowledge spirit inhabiting a skull. He can visibly leave the skull and there are plenty of references to his nature as part of normal conversations; until it comes up it's not going to change your understanding of the story.

[BRC]

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).

Well, there are multiple styles of hat that are referred to as a "Cowboy Hat". It's not any official term.

As for the Narration Challenge, it's not just his internal dialogue, it's the very complex rules that have to be brought up quite frequently. Even Bobsposition can only go so far.

Just think, there are several times where it's significant that Harry is avoiding locking eyes with somebody to avoid a Soulgaze.
Or Red Court Vamps: they look pretty but are bat-people in human skins, though they used to be human until they were turned, and they have some classic Vampire weaknesses, and their tongues excrete a narcotic saliva. Now, that wouldn't be too bad if those were the only rules the viewer needed to keep track of, but you've also got White and Black court Vampires, Faries (Come from the Nevernever, organized into Summer, Winter, and Wild, vulnerable to Iron, their nobles (The Sidhe) cannot tell a lie but are skilled at twisting the truth), Wizards, The Denarians, the Knights, ect ect. All these different groups and rules that it's easy to keep straight on a page, but when you have a limited amount of time to explain things can get complicated.

The Alphas show up and Harry turns to some random passerbye and says "These are the Alphas, there Werewolves, well, they're a type of werewolf. Basically they're human with the ability to shapechange into big wolves. They keep their intelligence, which makes them very dangerous, but anything that could kill a big wolf will kill them. They're helping me fight some Ghouls, which are basically Human, only they're fast, strong, really hard to kill, and they have an insatiable hunger for human flesh".

You know, just so that everybody has the rules clear.

[Soras Teva Gee]

But he is not?
(To clarify: He might be wearing a hat that IRL cowboys sometimes wore, but it's not what is known as a cowboy hat).

And Fedora doesn't exactly conjure an exact description either.

I still judge it to be more cowboy hat (not a Stetson mind you) then a gangster hat.

I think a Boss of the Plains in black and beaten to hell is the best fit, but that's not a well known term and something most people would say "cowboy hat" to.

[Prime32]

As for the Narration Challenge, it's not just his internal dialogue, it's the very complex rules that have to be brought up quite frequently. Even Bobsposition can only go so far.

Again, I've seen plenty of anime with settings way more complex than The Dresden Files (heck, Magiranger probably had a more complex magic system... which was completely removed for the Power Rangers adaptation). And it's easier to keep track of everything in a series format.

Compare:
http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire

http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Magic
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magecraft and http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magic (they're separate things)

[Avilan the Grey]

I still judge it to be more cowboy hat (not a Stetson mind you) then a gangster hat.

It's a kind of fedora.
Probably more of the Indy model.

[Soras Teva Gee]

On the depiction issue an adaptation doesn't need to detail how the Red Court works in every detail with clear explanations.

Just have Bianca on screen doing her Madam routine and turn into this:

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Narcotic drool? Show that thing above grasping and drooling on someone then that person go from afraid to gasping, writhing, and moaning all creepy sexually.

Different types of vamps, just be sure Thomas and Mavra have different aesthetics when introduced and explain once in Grave Files. Trust the audience a bit more to remember or just throw a few throw away refresher lines to everything.

The world building is the easy part to convert, the real problem is that you will have to change the humor of the series, since you have to do Harry from the outside more and humor is very contextual. Sure some jokes may carry or even work better, but I bet all will. You can't just port the novels into animated format but have to give some thought to rewriting their style which is a more difficult task then the mere details.

[Prime32]

The world building is the easy part to convert, the real problem is that you will have to change the humor of the series, since you have to do Harry from the outside more and humor is very contextual. Sure some jokes may carry or even work better, but I bet all will. You can't just port the novels into animated format but have to give some thought to rewriting their style which is a more difficult task then the mere details.

Still, it's been done. Lina Inverse had monologues not far from Harry's ones (albeit she didn't say them out loud as often), and the anime adaptation of Slayers was hilarious.

[KnightDisciple]

Let's ditch the arguments about Cover!Harry's hat, okay?

Anyways. As far as the "portraying different vampires" bit, it's not that hard.

Red Court usually look pretty, but have fangs, lap blood, and turn into terrible bat-monsters.
White Court are basically Twilight Vamps minus the blood. Seriously, they even sparkle when they amp up. They're pretty, but in a different way, not too hard to display.
Black Court look dead. Like, corpse-ified and stuff.

Seems pretty easy to make them distinct.

As for the humor and such...I think at least some voiceover for internal monologue might work.

[Soras Teva Gee]

White Court are basically Twilight Vamps minus the blood. Seriously, they even sparkle when they amp up. They're pretty, but in a different way, not too hard to display.

Hey no need to be insulting now Blood Rites alone predates Twilight by a year and Thomas had been around well before that.

Also they that they would undoubtedly Bishie Sparkle should not be confused for having a congenital accident involving glitter. (Also they shine)

[Mauve Shirt]

They're not really vampires, they're incubi and succubi.
How you introduce the Red Court:
Have an internal monologue like in noir detective movies.
Harry says "I have to talk to the vampire in town." or something.
They do that scene, she does that feeding on Rachel that displays the narcotic spit, she kills her displaying her vampire nature, she explodes at Dresden in her bat shape, Dresden stops her and leaves. You know, how it plays out in the book but with less "And then she exploded into a bat thing" and more her exploding into a bat thing.
And Thomas, introduce him by having him do his soul eating seduction thing on Justine. Like in the book.
Black, make them look dead and Dracula-like. Harry drops a comment about Dracula being an instruction manual.

He doesn't have to SAY "My basement was lined with wire shelves la dee da" or "Marcone's eyes were green like dollar bills", they just make it happen. And while they do need the humor, I don't think the humor would suffer if there were fewer random pop culture references. A lot of the best comments Harry makes, he makes out loud to the bad guys. And some of his funny internal dialogue can happen at scene transition narration.

[KnightDisciple]

Hey no need to be insulting now Blood Rites alone predates Twilight by a year and Thomas had been around well before that.

Also they that they would undoubtedly Bishie Sparkle should not be confused for having a congenital accident involving glitter. (Also they shine)

I typed that in a rush....

They're Twilight vamps, but done better, right, and earlier.