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    Default How does 4E Work?

    How exactly does character creation and combat work compared to 3.5?

    I don't really want to throw down money to look at the books and realize that, I am going hate how the system works, at the same time seems no SRD for 4e.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Character creation...
    • Attributes are approximately the same, though point-buy is more strongly encouraged and the costs for different attributes are different.
    • Races are changed quite a bit. Every race (except humans) get +2 to one specific attribute and +2 to one of 2 other attributes, +2 to two skills, usually 1-2 other minor perks, and a single racial power that is almost always an encounter power (that is, it recharges after taking a short 5-minute rest). There's no such thing as a racial attribute penalty, so any race can get an 18 in any stat (though they can get 20s in some).
    • Hit points are never rolled; a character of a given class gets a particular number of hit points at level 1 and per level, with the only variance between different characters of the same class being due to their Con score.
    • Skills are either trained or not, and there are far fewer skills than in 3.5. There are no skill ranks. Basically, 2-5 skills from 3.5 were all rolled up into 1 skill in 4e. You get a +5 bonus (quite significant) to skill checks you're trained for and can use the skill for a couple things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do, but the designers wanted to specifically avoid circumstances where a task that was reasonably challenging for one character could be completely impossible for another, so that just basically doesn't happen due to the way skills work.
    • Feats are given more often (1 at L1, with another at every even-numbered level, L11, and L21), but are far less powerful and character-defining than in 3.5. A feat never gives new options, instead simply enhancing those you already have.
    • What does define characters is mostly the powers they choose, which are most similar to 3.5 spells or ToB maneuvers. There are 4 main categories of power: at-will powers that can be used constantly, encounter powers that recharge after a 5-minute "short rest" which will normally be done after each battle, daily powers that recharge only after an 8-hour "extended rest," and utility powers that can be any of the previous and that have effects that don't directly affect enemies.


    Combat...
    • Generally, the combat system is far more unified than it is in 3.5. That is, everybody's working off of the same rules; you don't have one person using spells, another using maneuvers, a third using psionics, a fourth with normal attacks, and what have you.
    • Everybody gets 3 actions per round, one a standard action generally used to attack, one a move action usually used to move around, and one a minor action to do things like draw weapons or use utility powers. This means that it's usually not possible to attack more than once per round.
    • When a character tries to do something to an enemy, it's the character who rolls to see if they succeed. That is, instead of a wizard casting Sleep on the enemy goblins and the goblins rolling Will saves to resist, the wizard rolls an attack against the goblins' Will defense. Mathematically it's identical, but it's another part of the system unification: the attacker is the one who rolls attacks.
    • Practically everything that you can do to enemies will also damage the enemies. That is, if a cleric turns undead and hits with the attack, not only will the undead be forced away, they'll also take significant amounts of damage. Exceptions tend to be powers with crazy-strong effects that are actually encounter-winners all on their own.


    I'm sure there's more, but I keep forgetting what I've already written when trying to figure out what actually needs to be said The system works well and you'll probably enjoy it, though it is quite different from 3.5.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    How exactly does character creation and combat work compared to 3.5?

    I don't really want to throw down money to look at the books and realize that, I am going hate how the system works, at the same time seems no SRD for 4e.
    ...How specific are you looking for?

    Each class (with a few exceptions) has a list of combat powers, available at different levels. These are separated into At-Will (can use as much as you like), Encounter (can use once per combat encounter, unless stated otherwise), Daily (can use once per game day, unless stated otherwise), and Utility (varies with ability).

    When you level, you pick what powers you gain. Different powers are available to different classes, use different stats (one may add your str bonus to the roll, and target AC, one may add Cha to roll, target reflex), do different damage, to a different number of targets, with different secondary effects.

    Reflex, Will, and Fort are static defenses, rather than rolled saves. So if I attack +8 vs reflex, it's like +8 vs AC but with a different target number.

    You also have skills, which do skill stuff. You pick a few on character creation to be trained in. These get +5. Everyone progresses in skills/attack rolls at a rate of half their level. So if the rogue and wizard had the same dex (unlikely), and the same feats (more unlikely), but thew rogue is trained in acrobatics, the rogue's skill bonus will always be 5 more than the wizard, but at higher levels, BOTH will be able to habitually do stuff that a 1st level character would have difficulty with.

    Feats might boost certain powers, skills, give other options (my Warden has one that when I immobilize or slow an enemy with a hammer attack, I do extra damage). They might increase your defenses (AC, Ref, Will, or Fort), boost attack with certain weapons, etc.

    Classes are clearly stated as to their intended role in a combat party: Defender (can apply a penalty to enemies who don't attack him, tend to be defensive), Controller (AOE effects, or walls/movement/debuffs, punish enemy for clumping, or move them around the battlefield), Striker (hits things...hard), and Leader (can heal allies, buff allies, give allies extra attacks, move allies, etc).

    Due to the power setup (At-will, Encounter, Daily, Utility) most of the classes visually look similar in the book, but at the table when you realize what they do well, or their particular schtick, they play very differently. You don't have things like "the fighters use a full attack, again, while the wizard has a triple handfull of options," but instead you have "Well, the wizard blocked off those enemies so we can focus on this one, and if he attacks anyone other than the fighter he gets a -2 to hit, AND the fighter gets to smack him, while the Warlord just gave the rogue an extra attack, and the rogue's using his big daily, which will also knock the foe down."

    For outside combat RP, there's not a large number of rules, but more general guidelines. Suggested DCs for skill checks, the idea of "skill challenges" which attempt to quantify something like chasing a thief through a crowded city, or finding your way through a forest before the enemy gets to the temple (survival checks would help, but you also might climb a tall tree to get a better view of where you are, etc). Various implementations of skill challenges work better than others, but if you get the idea of what it's trying to do it works better than if you try to apply rigid examples to all situations (module skill challanges tend to be horrid in portrayal of "these are the only options").
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    That's kind of a complex question, but let me as you this question:

    "Do you consider 3.5 a flawed (not bad, just flawed) system?"

    If "no", then 4e is probably going to bug the heck out of you, with all the little changes that were made, especially the parts where it breaks from the traditions that were carried forward since 1e.

    If "yes" then you might find 4e to be a breath of fresh air.


    I'll add a bit to what NecroRebel said:

    4e is similar is a lot of ways to previous editions (particularly 3.5); characters pick classes, work together to overcome whatever nastiness the GM wishes to use, roll d20s and add modifiers, etc.

    1) Characters get "better" at many things they do (as they level) at a linear rate; every second level characters get a +1 to all defenses, attack rolls, and skill checks.

    2) Characters now having "healing surges" which represent their long-term ability to keep fighting. When spent, a character regains 1/4 of their hit points back. Everyone can use one healing surge normally in combat, with powers (such as cleric and warlord ones) allowing additional surges to be spent as necessary.

    3) Rather than "class" (i.e. Rogue, Paladin, etc.), "role" is often considered the most important way of thinking about how a character works. Defenders protect allies and tie up enemies in melee combat (i.e. Fighters, Paladins), Strikers deal the most damage (i.e. Barbarians, Warlocks), Leaders aid their allies at being better at combat and healing them (i.e. Clerics, Bards), and Controllers gum up the battlefield to give the party a positional edge (i.e. Wizards, Druids). The game generally expects a balance of all the roles (with a slight preference to strikers) but plays fine with most mixes.

    A few differences you'll find from 3.5 to 4e combat:

    1) Combat is generally less lethal. This is due to a combination of higher hit points, more options available to regain hit points, and better "Monster Math" that prevents wide discrepancies in "challenge" between equal level monsters (compare a seven headed Cyro-hydra to a Destrachan for example). A side effect to the increased options across the board is that combat can take a while if all the players spend a lot of time trying to decide what they want to do.

    2) The individual power of most spells/abilities has dropped dramatically. This is in part because of the way the system handles "saving throws"; in 3.5, many spells are considered "save or lose" or "save or die" because if the opponent doesn't make his saving throw, they're effectively dead, either because the spell kills them, or they're hit with an effect they cannot escape out of within the short term (i.e. Dominate Person, Disintegrate). Any spells that have a particular nasty effect (such as Sleep), have a "save ends" effect; each round at the end of their turn, a player may roll a d20 for each "save ends" effect; on a 10 or higher, they "save" out of the effect.

    3) Unlike 3.5, characters now play by different "rules" than monsters and NPCs; I don't say this to be alarmist, but in general, monsters don't use PC templates (i.e. an Orc Warrior is not a "Warrior" class + Orc racial bonuses). NPCs aren't strictly divided into "Adepts", "Experts", "Commoners", etc., and monsters are "created" through following rough mathematical guides (i.e. an "Artillery" monsters of level X should have X times Y hit points, have X + 3 AC, and deal a rough amount of damage with an attack based on this chart). This bothers some people, but it's not really a PC concern.

    If you have any specific questions, perhaps we could answer them.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    There's no Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard* - every class is balanced and there's no "I win" button for the caster who prepared for the encounter. Because you can't "prepare for the encounter" by having a load of spells ready.

    Every role has a function in combat, and better (ie more effective) parties have all four covered. The best party is not four Wizards (they'd get murdered) or some other arrangement like that.


    *Wizard being a catch-all for full casters in 3.x
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    To attack the problem from a different angle, consider getting a 1 month subscription to the online character builder. It gives you access to everything in 4E. It costs less than any book, and gives you far more information. If you don't like it, then simply don't pay for a second month, and it all goes away.

    And considering how close we are getting to the next edition, I'd be tempted to try the cheapest method possible, regardless of how much I do or do not love 4E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    And if anyone wants help being all the classes, let me know.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Most of what I was going to say has been covered, but there's a few more things worth a mention:

    The change to races makes them a little more flexible, as a good racial power can make up for the lack of an ability score boost.

    Classes are frontloaded with abilities. Each class gets all the necessary tools to fulfill their role at level one. In order to keep characters from getting all the goodies by just dipping into several classes, multiclassing is severely restricted compared to 3e.

    Out-of-combat magic has been weakened. Knock, for example, now has a ten minute casting time. While it is usable if necessary, it's much preferable to use skills to pick a lock.

    Fights are designed to be a group of players against an approximately equally-sized group of monsters, rather than a group of players against a single monster. There are specific monsters designed to be about as dangerous as 2 or 5 typical monsters for smaller fights, and others designed to be 1/4 as dangerous as typical monsters for bigger fights.

    Leaders always come equipped with a healing ability that uses a minor action. So they can generally heal and attack in a round, rather than having to pick one or the other.

    Positioning is often very important, so having a grid is highly encouraged. Area effects are usually squares, so they may be easily placed on a grid.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Leaders always come equipped with a healing ability that uses a minor action. So they can generally heal and attack in a round, rather than having to pick one or the other.
    More fundamentally, everyone can heal themselves to a small degree (via Second Wind) and often have the option of taking powers that will give them a little more.

    Hit points are genuinely no longer a measure of physical health alone - you recover them far too quickly for them to be that. A full day's rest restores all your hit points. A short rest allows you to spend Healing Surges, which restore hit points.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    I litterly havent even cracked a book open , So I can't ask specific questions. A Local DM is offering to run a 4e game, but sort of make your characters at home using stat buy, and well I have no books so ...lol.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    I litterly havent even cracked a book open , So I can't ask specific questions. A Local DM is offering to run a 4e game, but sort of make your characters at home using stat buy, and well I have no books so ...lol.
    Then I might suggest checking out the Wizards website. In particular, the "Quickstart" rules (quoted because it's 27 pages . . . not very quick). You'll be able to make comparisons to whatever edition you're familiar with, see how some of the new features work, and even see some example 1st level characters.

    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/QuickStartRules.pdf

    Give it a shot; it's a fun system.

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Out-of-combat magic has been weakened. Knock, for example, now has a ten minute casting time. While it is usable if necessary, it's much preferable to use skills to pick a lock.
    I disagree. Yes, most non-combat magic now has cast times measured in minutes and not seconds, but I don't really see this as being weakened. Out-of-combat scenarios tend to treat time arbitrarily, and the situations where you need to be able to [insert ritual effect] in less than 10 minutes are probably only made so because your GM is trying to coerce a specific solution.

    Well, either that or the players have put themselves someplace stupidly dangerous and need fast solutions. Your mileage may vary.

    The place I do think non-combat magic is worse for wear is that it's effectively both optional and expensive. That is, when you build a character and gain levels, you get new combat powers and/or feats each level. New rituals have to be bought or found. The buying is a particular problem that came up in my games. There is a specific cost associated with any given ritual, so buying the reagents to cast a ritual can eat into the party's cash, which does not incentivize their use. Many groups simply choose to place that burden on the caster himself, and it's a difficult choice between new/better magic items or more rituals and ritual reagents.

    Still, I don't think they're bad. I just think people look at the casting time and assume they'll never have time to use the ritual.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    I'd recommend getting the free Quickstart Rules and H1: Keep on the Shadowfell adventure PDF's from the WotC site, and just trying it. You don't need all the books to play for a few sessions and see if you like it.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal View Post
    I disagree. Yes, most non-combat magic now has cast times measured in minutes and not seconds, but I don't really see this as being weakened.
    Let's put it like this: during the time it takes the wizard to cast Knock, every other party member can make one hundred Thievery skill checks (or Athletics checks to force the door, or the best character can make skill checks while the rest make assist rolls). The odds are astronomically small that they won't get the door open long before the ritual is done.

    Basically, at any time where party members ask to do something while the wizard is chanting, they will have the situation resolved very quickly and the ritual won't be needed any more (with a handful of exceptions like teleportation and resurrection).
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Let's put it like this: during the time it takes the wizard to cast Knock, every other party member can make one hundred Thievery skill checks (or Athletics checks to force the door, or the best character can make skill checks while the rest make assist rolls). The odds are astronomically small that they won't get the door open long before the ritual is done.

    Basically, at any time where party members ask to do something while the wizard is chanting, they will have the situation resolved very quickly and the ritual won't be needed any more (with a handful of exceptions like teleportation and resurrection).
    Your math is fine, but I have two objections to the point:

    1) How many of the rituals are direct skill-check correlations the way Knock/Thievery are? I don't know the ritual list by heart, but I'd wager they're the exception, not the rule, making them a poor representative.

    2) If you present a situation where the players are incentivized or allowed to make 100 checks to accomplish something, then you are doing something wrong as the GM. Even if the rules support such actions, it's not something that should ever take place in the game.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal View Post
    1) How many of the rituals are direct skill-check correlations the way Knock/Thievery are?
    Most of them. Even if the ritual doesn't ask you to make a skill check, most of their effects can simply be duplicated by skill checks (e.g. locate object => perception; disguise self => hand-craft a disguise and bluff; water walk => athletics to swim).

    2) If you present a situation where the players are incentivized or allowed to make 100 checks to accomplish something, then you are doing something wrong as the GM.
    Oh, they're not going to make 100 checks; 2 or 3 are generally sufficient. The point is, the wizard has to be chanting for at least ten minutes. If all other characters twiddle their thumbs for that time and the DM skips over it, then yes, the ritual works. However, as soon as any player asks "hey, while the wizard is busy, can I try to do something?" the system breaks down.

    The players aren't incentivized to make 100 checks; the players are incentivized to solve the situation in the quickest and cheapest manner. Rituals are never the quickest and cheapest manner.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    This may seem user varied , but how friendly is 4e to play by forum post?

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Of course many skill checks will also take much longer than 6 seconds or have other restrictions.

    The knock example seems to be classic and Kurald is right that most locks can be opened faster if someone trained in the thievery skill opens them.

    But there is the point that knock can open locks thievery can not open. For example because the lock is simple out of reach. And while it would be a waste to cast Detect Object if an object can be found via simple perception skills it is no waste to do so if it is behind a wall, made invisible or hidden by other means.

    You are searching for a bit of ancient information? Yes - if you are standing in a library this is propably the fastest and cheapest way to find it. But within a dungeon or in the wilderness it would be much better to make a ritual.

    You want to cross a river like in Kuralds example? Swimming is faster than water walk, no doubt (exceptional huge or wild rivers ignored). But also more dangerous because you could be in a river swimming when a monster attacks you or an arrow targets you (while the ritual can be cast hidden in the forrest next to the river). And you can carry the weak and tortured innocent girl you have saved from the evil cultists with you without risking to drown her.

    Many rituals are pretty good balanced that way, so that you can make things impossible without them - but that it is not impossible to do similar, just a little bit less exceptional things in other situations. You will find Mack the slaughterer, terror to a small village where he has captured some little girls. You can talk to the commoners, search for tracks, you can even create a trap for him by disguising your female bard as an innocent school girl. It might take some days or weeks, but you will find him.

    Or for an high amount of magical ingredients, worth hundreds of gold pieces you might find his last victim within 10 minutes. Maybe she is still alive. Do you pay for her live? That's up to you.

    So don't let someone explain you rituals would be a waste. They are not, some of them are even very powerful. They are just no longer what i would call "your one and only problem solver" like similar spells were sometimes in previous editions. They do have a price that will not be gone tomorrow after a rest. The price might just be worth it.
    Last edited by Leolo; 2012-09-16 at 02:49 AM.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    This may seem user varied , but how friendly is 4e to play by forum post?
    Less friendly than 3.5

    The reason for this is that 4E has much more dynamic combats, where more actions are interrupted or altered by different actions from you or your opponents.

    While this is great if you are sitting next to your best friends, because you can literary "do something even if it is not your turn" it can be a problem within a forum post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal View Post
    I disagree. Yes, most non-combat magic now has cast times measured in minutes and not seconds, but I don't really see this as being weakened. Out-of-combat scenarios tend to treat time arbitrarily, and the situations where you need to be able to [insert ritual effect] in less than 10 minutes are probably only made so because your GM is trying to coerce a specific solution.
    Even if you don't think the difference is significant in practical terms, it is a clear mechanical difference which favors the 3.5 version of the spell.

    And the point is not that rituals are bad(I actually prefer most of them to their 3e counterparts), but that a player who expects every situation to have a magical solution as the best solution is likely to be disappointed. I felt it was worth mentioning because I have seen some complaints about 4e that basically boiled down to "there's a better way to do some things than magic".

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Rituals also cost money and components (not optional like in 3.x), so skill checks are invariably cheaper. This is entirely intentional and by design; something I love about 4th edition is that it pointedly nerfs 3.x's assumption that magic is better than every other solution.
    Last edited by Kiero; 2012-09-16 at 04:01 AM.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    This may seem user varied , but how friendly is 4e to play by forum post?
    I have not tried this myself, but I would think that as long as the players avoid taking lots of immediate reaction / immediate interrupt powers, you'll be fine.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    I tried it, and it worked okay. But we had to announce beforehand if you plan to take any off-turn actions (eg, I want to make the Flaming Sphere attack anyone who gets near it), everyone automatically made AoOs whenever possible, and Delay and Ready were just completely forbidden.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashdate View Post
    That's kind of a complex question, but let me as you this question:

    "Do you consider 3.5 a flawed (not bad, just flawed) system?"

    If "no", then 4e is probably going to bug the heck out of you, with all the little changes that were made, especially the parts where it breaks from the traditions that were carried forward since 1e.

    If "yes" then you might find 4e to be a breath of fresh air.
    I would not agree with this statement. I found 3.5 to be a flawed (but not bad) system. However, I now prefer 4e to it. 3.5 was (and still is) an okay system, but 4e made a lot of improvements. Most of the little flaws that had started to annoy me about 3.5 are not present in 4. 4e does have its own foibles, but what system doesn't?

    As someone who has had a lot of experience in pbp with both editions, 4e is a little tougher, but certainly still possible. It requires a bit more work to keep track of things like forced movement and immediate powers, but it still works okay if you're willing to put in a little extra. It is best to try to have everyone limit the number of immediate powers they take. As one game I'm in right now put it, take them if they are the best option for your character, but if there is another that would be approximately as good that is not immediate, go for it instead. And as another poster mentioned, it is good to post in advance if you want to use it and under what conditions. The previous poster mentioned banning delays and readied actions. Most pbp's I've played in used group initiatives anyway, but a delay or readied action shouldn't be any tougher to work with than any other immediate. And honestly I don't see them any more or less often now than I did when playing 3.5 pbp (which is very rarely).

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    A feat never gives new options, instead simply enhancing those you already have.
    False. Feats can grant new options. They do tend to enhance the abilities you have instead.
    What does define characters is mostly the powers they choose,
    This is true in low-optimization play, and at lower levels in general. At higher levels, or in high-op play, powers becoming increasingly less important than feats, items, and the like.

    However, yes, in a typical low-heroic levels play, your powers (and class features) will highly define your in-combat capabilities.
    Skills are either trained or not, and there are far fewer skills than in 3.5.
    Note that skill focus, background bonuses, paragon path skill bonuses, item bonuses to skills, bonuses to skills from feats all exist. In addition, there are skill powers (basically, skill tricks from 3e), and class powers that require skill training, which let you do some specialized things amazingly.
    Everybody gets 3 actions per round, one a standard action generally used to attack, one a move action usually used to move around, and one a minor action to do things like draw weapons or use utility powers. This means that it's usually not possible to attack more than once per round.
    You get 4 actions per round, one of which you cannot spend on your turn (your immediate action). In addition, you get one opportunity action per opponents turn.
    Due to the power setup (At-will, Encounter, Daily, Utility) most of the classes visually look similar in the book, but at the table when you realize what they do well, or their particular schtick, they play very differently.
    To many people, 4e reads poorly. They went for ease of understanding of mechanics instead of ease of understanding of "how to play" the mechanics, if that makes sense.

    So the text can be quite dry.
    Everyone can use one healing surge normally in combat, with powers (such as cleric and warlord ones) allowing additional surges to be spent as necessary.
    To be clear, while everyone can use 1 healing surge per combat (via "second wind"), it is typically a bad idea to do so (for the reason why healing in combat 3e is much maligned: it is almost always better to kill an enemy than burn an action healing).
    Rather than "class" (i.e. Rogue, Paladin, etc.), "role" is often considered the most important way of thinking about how a character works.
    Note, however, that a Warden and a Fighter and a Paladin play differently. And a Wizard and Seeker and a Druid play differently.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by dariathalon View Post
    I would not agree with this statement. I found 3.5 to be a flawed (but not bad) system. However, I now prefer 4e to it. 3.5 was (and still is) an okay system, but 4e made a lot of improvements. Most of the little flaws that had started to annoy me about 3.5 are not present in 4. 4e does have its own foibles, but what system doesn't?
    That's what I was trying to articulate. Perhaps I said it wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk
    Note, however, that a Warden and a Fighter and a Paladin play differently. And a Wizard and Seeker and a Druid play differently.
    This is true, and I apologize for not being clearer about that. What I was trying to say was that whereas in 3.5, you would think of a typical party as a "Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard", with everything else being some variant of those classes (e.g. Paladin, Bard, Druid, Sorcerer). The problem (to some) is that there might be many variants of the "Fighter" (i.e. Barbarian, Ranger, Samurai, etc.), but few variants of the "Cleric", hence the idea that someone has to play as a cleric (which of course, wasn't true strictly speaking, but I think that perception was there).

    In 4e, typically you think of a typical party as a "Defender, Striker, Leader, and Controller". The game is quite explicit at putting classes into a particular category, whereas there was a lot of "grey area" in 3.5, particularly in regards to the "Tier 1" classes. A Paladin is still a reasonable substitute for the role a Fighter plays, but it is for reasons that exceed the "archtype" of the character, instead rooted in mechanics such as "marking", which gives them a mechanic identity that other classes (like a cleric) do not have.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    I litterly havent even cracked a book open , So I can't ask specific questions. A Local DM is offering to run a 4e game, but sort of make your characters at home using stat buy, and well I have no books so ...lol.
    In general when playing an RPG for the first time, you want either to have thoroughly read the books or to have access to a DM who is willing to walk you through character creation and teach you how to play. People who have neither of those things will generally choose a different game.
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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Naw, the quick-start rules are enough to learn the basics, and they are free.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    Character creation...
    • Feats are given more often (1 at L1, with another at every even-numbered level, L11, and L21), but are far less powerful and character-defining than in 3.5. A feat never gives new options, instead simply enhancing those you already have.
    Hmmm... I believe there are SOME feats that give new options, mostly multiclass/divinity feats that grant you a power. "Never" is a bit strong, but in general, yes.

    As for how friendly 4E is to play-by-post? I've been DMing a 4E game using Play-by-Post for more than a year, and while the pace isn't the greatest, it's been mostly successful so far, I think. But then, I do have fairly active players that I keep in touch with via IM and other avenues of communication, which helps a lot when it comes to dynamic combat, and I am usually free enough to make several combat updates per day. I think it probably requires more effort to make work than some other games.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverwolfer View Post
    How exactly does character creation and combat work compared to 3.5?

    I don't really want to throw down money to look at the books and realize that, I am going hate how the system works, at the same time seems no SRD for 4e.
    why not just download and look over the .pdfs? or...am i not supposed to talk about that =/ cuz soon as i get a job D&D is going to have my soul in all those books

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetguru View Post
    ...am i not supposed to talk about that
    That's right.

    Buying a subscription to the character builder, as Tengu suggested, is the cheap, legal alternative. Only $5.95 for a month, which gives you access to all material from all the books.

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    Default Re: How does 4E Work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallbot View Post
    That's right.

    Buying a subscription to the character builder, as Tengu suggested, is the cheap, legal alternative. Only $5.95 for a month, which gives you access to all material from all the books.
    ya i dont have 6$ a month to spend sorry >< trying to save for a new computer so i can focus on making videos for youtube n junk, got 140$ so far and i got about 500-600 to go, so maybe 2 years and ill have my new PC

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