Borderlands 2

[ex cathedra]

OK, so the warrior with gaige is dead easy. Seriously, no deaths, not even dropped my shield, it just died rather quickly (anarchy Gaige with 1k torque assaultrifle)... with zero it was, like, hard (and needing to cheat), but with gaige it's a walk in the park...

I suspect that you weren't playing Zero well, or that the additional playthrough has simply given you more game experience. :l

[Socratov]

I suspect that you weren't playing Zero well, or that the additional playthrough has simply given you more game experience. :l

true, well, I more or less played Zer0 with a slightly glass cannon build sniping from afar (and kunai if closeup and gtfo to aforementioned tactic), wich is hard to do well against bosses that are forever beyond your reach, unless you cak up against the exit and burn all your sniper's ammo (and pistol ammo, as well at just about everything else). Now I'm mainly playing Gaige (called her Winly ) and getting her to lvl 50 so I can get the great stuff from the DLC's.

[Triscuitable]

My Zer0 uses Execute to fly around. It's very funny to play with friends and listen to their reactions as I zip over their heads. The battle with a notable avian also saw me doing the most damage by going aerial.

[Socratov]

My Zer0 uses Execute to fly around. It's very funny to play with friends and listen to their reactions as I zip over their heads. The battle with a notable avian also saw me doing the most damage by going aerial.

execute + many fall = shunpo?

You'd need redicilous meleedamage for that or a great number of grenades and a hyperactive hand pressing 'v'

[Triscuitable]

execute + many fall = shunpo?

You'd need redicilous meleedamage for that or a great number of grenades and a hyperactive hand pressing 'v'

I mapped melee to RMB a long time ago. I zoom in with the middle mouse, mostly because the weapons I use don't need to be sighted for good accuracy. Plus, my "Law" has a special scope that is aligned to the part of the gun that the body obscures, meaning my shots never hit where I aim; I have to use hip-fire. No matter. My combos go between LMB LMB LMB RMB RMB as I close in on targets with a shotty or pistol, and them I melee them to death.

[thirsting]

Are any of the damage sources my character deals able to hurt her/himself? Like explosive weapons, some area effect skills, ricochets, etc..?

[Triscuitable]

Are any of the damage sources my character deals able to hurt her/himself? Like explosive weapons, some area effect skills, ricochets, etc..?

No AOE skills, but splash damage from explosives will deal a reduced amount of damage to you.

[Reynard]

No AOE skills, but splash damage from explosives will deal a reduced amount of damage to you.

Unless it's the cursed grenade mod, in which case you will die if you can't get someting between you and it.

[Artanis]

Tesla Grenades' bolts also won't target you or allies. Not sure about the initial explosion though.

[Douglas]

Also, one of the Captain Blade's items from the first DLC has a curse that deals damage to you every time you shoot it. Much less damage than what it deals to your targets, but still some.

I don't know about tesla grenades, but I have used the fire version and those did deal damage if I was too close. I could be wrong, but my impression was that friendly fire exists in full for damaging yourself, but not for damaging your allies. So feel free to shoot rockets and toss grenades at your buddies in multiplayer, but watch out about shooting them too close to your own feet.

[Triscuitable]

Unless it's the cursed grenade mod, in which case you will die if you can't get someting between you and it.

If you can run fast...

[mangosta71]

Unless it's the cursed grenade mod, in which case you will die if you can't get someting between you and it.

Yeah, that was a rude surprise.

[Socratov]

Because the curse of the cackling designer didn't give it away slightly?

Anyway, sniping with zero is fun while hitting 221k on average, over 600k with boosts without actually being built for it in a dedicated way.

[JediSoth]

So, I took Maya on Sir Hammerlock's little hunting expedition yesterday. It seems like the difficulty has been jacked up a bit. Either that, or I just haven't found the best weapon combos to really be effective against the witch doctors and various critters yet. It seems like shooting a LOT of bullets really fast is giving me the best results, making me think most of them are just bullet sponges, though headshots with sniper rifles have been working on run-of-the-mill savages.

I do kind of miss Mr. Torgue and his bombastic ways. (EXPLOOOOOSIONS!) Hammerlock and his ribald humor are mildly amusing, at least, though it seems to be aimed as though my character is male, which is kind of weird.

I'll have to see if my level 50 Gaige has an easier time of it. Deathtrap and the Close Enough skill really put the game into easy mode, but I still had trouble with some parts of Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage.

It seems fitting that I've only played the DLCs in TVHM, though.

[Triscuitable]

The new DLC is bad.

Hammerlock has been re-written into one part Beavis, one part Butthead; his jokes aren't funny, he laughs at his own "humor", and is a very boring "ECHO Buddy", unlike Handsome Jack, Captain Scarlett, and Mr. Torgue.

The areas are too big for the characters to traverse without a vehicle, the new vehicle is a reskinned Sand-Skiff that handles horribly, the new enemies are recycled from The Secret Armory of General Knoxx, and new areas have the gamma jacked to get a stupidly grey looking sunrise.

Oh, and the villain is pitiful and boring. That's the worst part. Put this all together, and make me say two things:

• Stop outsourcing developers for your DLC, Gearbox. They can't make anything above mediocrity.
• RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, RIGHT NOW.

[ex cathedra]

RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, RIGHT NOW.

Personally, I'm not really looking forward to it. Some classes just get way more out of increased level cap than others.

[pffh]

Personally, I'm not really looking forward to it. Some classes just get way more out of increased level cap than others.

So? There is no competition in this game. Nothing is balanced for PVP so why does it matter if one class is slightly more powerful than another?

[Douglas]

Heh, speaking of PvP I have two words for you: Phase Lock. At least at the level where I tried it (mid to upper teens), it's an undodgeable instant-hit easy-to-aim one hit kill in duels. Kind of makes everything else irrelevant.

Relative performance in PvE is a major factor in fun for a lot of people, though, so that is important.

[ex cathedra]

So? There is no competition in this game. Nothing is balanced for PVP so why does it matter if one class is slightly more powerful than another?

If you were an Axton player and the next DLC contained a character that had all of Axton's skills but did twice as much damage, couldn't that affect your enjoyment of the game?

Balance mattered when the Bee was the only shield in the game worth wearing. Why shouldn't it matter now? I'm just saying, dude.

[BRC]

So I've beaten the game as Salvador, and I'm starting a Playthrough as Gaige.

Here's the thing, I LOVE the idea of Anarchy as a mechanic. It's always fun to see how much I can push my Anarchy stacks before the loss off accuracy means it's time to start over. That said, it seems like the Anarchy tree does not really have very much else to offer, especially when you consider that in order to get past the first tier you need to drop four points into "Reduced Capacity, increased Reload Speed".
Maybe when I get higher level (my Gaige is level 12 right now) things will open up, but right now It seems like I'm just wasting talent points.

[Douglas]

Starting over on Anarchy stacks deliberately? HERESY!

Just get some points in Close Enough. Now it doesn't matter whether you actually hit.

[pffh]

If you were an Axton player and the next DLC contained a character that had all of Axton's skills but did twice as much damage, couldn't that affect your enjoyment of the game?

But there isn't a character that has all the skills of one class and besides if they introduced such a character you can just level it, it's not like leveling to 50 takes a long time.

[BRC]

Starting over on Anarchy stacks deliberately? HERESY!

Just get some points in Close Enough. Now it doesn't matter whether you actually hit.

...I like sniping sometimes.


Also, I'm just waiting for the inevitable Butt Stallion DLC.

[ex cathedra]

But there isn't a character that has all the skills of one class and besides if they introduced such a character you can just level it, it's not like leveling to 50 takes a long time.

That's not the point, though. That's a way to demonstrate that one class could be objectively more powerful than another. Some players, myself included, like games that tend to be fairly balanced. I don't think that raising the level cap would really improve the game in any meaningful way.

As far as leveling a new character goes, what if I'm attached to my current character? I shouldn't have to feel compelled to reroll and make a new character just because it's stronger. Similarly, none of the characters should be so weak that you feel punished for playing them. It's demoralizing. Balance is important in PvE games, too, it's ignorant to think otherwise.

[pffh]

That's not the point, though. That's a way to demonstrate that one class could be objectively more powerful than another. Some players, myself included, like games that tend to be fairly balanced. I don't think that raising the level cap would really improve the game in any meaningful way.

As far as leveling a new character goes, what if I'm attached to my current character? I shouldn't have to feel compelled to reroll and make a new character just because it's stronger. Similarly, none of the characters should be so weak that you feel punished for playing them. It's demoralizing. Balance is important in PvE games, too, it's ignorant to think otherwise.

But no one is forcing you to play the more powerful classes as long as your current class can function in the game. If you can still finish the game as your chosen class why does it matter that another class can finish the game a little easier? To use an example already in the game does the fact that a Zero with B0re can kill the Bunk3r in few seconds affect your enjoyment of the bunk3r fight with other classes?

Raising the level cap gives people like me (who've pretty much done most things that they want to do in the game) more time with the game, it gives us new and more complex builds and combos to try out and it gives us the chance to actually use the legendaries that we've farmed for something besides just sitting there looking pretty and the occasional side quest. In short it breathes new life into the game.

[Anteros]

So? There is no competition in this game. Nothing is balanced for PVP so why does it matter if one class is slightly more powerful than another?

If it's only slight differences I don't care. However, if the balance gets too far out of whack it ruins the fun for people who prefer the "lower powered" classes when grouping with higher powered ones.

The new DLC is bad.

Hammerlock has been re-written into one part Beavis, one part Butthead; his jokes aren't funny, he laughs at his own "humor", and is a very boring "ECHO Buddy", unlike Handsome Jack, Captain Scarlett, and Mr. Torgue.

The areas are too big for the characters to traverse without a vehicle, the new vehicle is a reskinned Sand-Skiff that handles horribly, the new enemies are recycled from The Secret Armory of General Knoxx, and new areas have the gamma jacked to get a stupidly grey looking sunrise.

Oh, and the villain is pitiful and boring. That's the worst part. Put this all together, and make me say two things:

• Stop outsourcing developers for your DLC, Gearbox. They can't make anything above mediocrity.
• RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, RIGHT NOW.

Hammerlock was never exactly a bastion of high brow humor in the first place...Honestly Borderlands is pretty full of immature humor. I haven't played it yet though, so maybe it's worse than I'm imagining.

[Frankelshtein]

RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, RIGHT NOW.

Out of curiosity, why is raising the level cap so important? Personally, I feel like characters are nice and balanced at level 50. Sure, I may not be gaining levels, but new loot provides a nice sense of progression. I'd be quite interested to hear why you feel a higher level cap is something that needs to happen.

Also, anyone with a Mac client in here? I'd love to be able to play some co-op, but I won't be able to play with my friends who have the PC version until Aspyr catches up. I have a level 50 Assassin, a 30ish Commando who hasn't started TVHM, and I'd be more than willing to start a new character.

EDIT: Fixed quote.

[ex cathedra]

But no one is forcing you to play the more powerful classes as long as your current class can function in the game. If you can still finish the game as your chosen class why does it matter that another class can finish the game a little easier? To use an example already in the game does the fact that a Zero with B0re can kill the Bunk3r in few seconds affect your enjoyment of the bunk3r fight with other classes?

Every is capable of killing Bunker quickly, though. If B0re applied to every boss in the game and stuff like Sandhawk/Bee, Infinity/One Shot, and Norfleet/Sham didn't exist I do think it would be a problem. The problem is that distinctly unbalanced classes create the illusion of choice. You could tell someone that you'll give them 5 dollars OR you'll give them 2 dollars, whichever they prefer. Sure, they can decide to take the 2 dollars instead of the 5 but what's the incentive? How is that choice satisfying?

Raising the level cap gives people like me (who've pretty much done most things that they want to do in the game) more time with the game, it gives us new and more complex builds and combos to try out and it gives us the chance to actually use the legendaries that we've farmed for something besides just sitting there looking pretty and the occasional side quest. In short it breathes new life into the game.

I've put a great deal of time into the game myself and I don't feel like the leveling aspect is very important. Another 5 levels won't add any significant amount of depth to the game. It'll just devalue your hard-earned drops and leveled quest rewards and create a power gap between classes with synergistic trees (Maya, Axton) and classes with focused trees (Zero). For what? A level cap increase doesn't even add any actual new content. It just extends the grind.

[pffh]

I've put a great deal of time into the game myself and I don't feel like the leveling aspect is very important. Another 5 levels won't add any significant amount of depth to the game. It'll just devalue your hard-earned drops and leveled quest rewards and create a power gap between classes with synergistic trees (Maya, Axton) and classes with focused trees (Zero). For what? A level cap increase doesn't even add any actual new content. It just extends the grind.

Or create synergies for the focused classes. Many must fall + Kunais would be awesome as a Zero (since if the first game is anything to go by the level increase will be a lot more then 5 levels) or Gaige with all deathtrap upgrades or Support Maya that's also able to kick top notch ass.

But either way the level increase is coming so it's only a matter of time.

[Triscuitable]

In Diablo II, by the time you hit 99 you had every skill. You were a walking mass of destruction and pain who could end the life of any being short of Uber Diablo. However, mob sizes were increased to compensate, resulting in epic encounters with literally dozens of demons at a time. The idea of a level cap raise is to make loot hunting more interesting, and give way to even more exciting boss battles. The final boss of Big Game Hunt is depressing, the DLC is too short, and we only get one raid boss. It's dull to look at and even more boring to play, and I paid $30 for the season pass; I want more than just 3 hours of content to motivate me to play the game.

I've played the game enough to have grabbed every legendary gun I want to get, meaning each new DLC results in no new loot that compares to what I already have; I want a new level cap so I can find new guns to use when I hit a higher level.

Balance mattered when the Bee was the only shield in the game worth wearing. Why shouldn't it matter now? I'm just saying, dude.

It was the only one that mattered for farming. In any other situation, The Bee gets you killed incredibly quickly. If you ask me, the Neogenator or Hide of Terramorphous are much more viable options.