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    Default Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Welcome one and all to the eighth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful ) builds.

    The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

    For the eighth challenge get ready to marshall your skills for a Martial Adept from the Tome of Battle, the Warblade!

    Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build from levels 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material (excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Warblade without actually using any levels in it.

    Entries must be submitted by Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 29 September, 2012.

    Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

    * Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
    * Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
    * Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
    * Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
    * Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

    Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

    Recommended style:
    Spoiler
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
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    10th|New Class Level|
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    11th|New Class Level|
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    12th|New Class Level|
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    13th|New Class Level|
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    14th|New Class Level|
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    15th|New Class Level|
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    16th|New Class Level|
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    17th|New Class Level|
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    18th|New Class Level|
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    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
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    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
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    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code:
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    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]


    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage). For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list, similar to this:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

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    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code:
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    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

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    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]


    Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

    Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges.

    Entries should be submitted via private message to the chairman.

    Previous challenges;
    1. Soulknife
    2. Bard
    3. Monk
    4. Assassin
    5. Barbarian
    6. Warlock
    7. Paladin


    A few administrative notes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Chef Chairman
    Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
    This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

    Also it comes with double prize money.

    Allez Sauciers!
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2012-09-17 at 05:13 AM.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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    Characters:
    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
    Prizes:
    Eglath - 2nd Place Iron Chef XXXII


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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I had two ideas that were too obvious, so I scrapped them.
    Then another that was almost a cliche that I had to ignore.
    Then two others that were just too capable to work.

    Then I thought of one more thing that I just know everyone will hate; I figure that's how you know it's a good call.
    Last edited by eggs; 2012-09-16 at 08:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Were said ideas using Crusader and/or Swordsage? It's definitely not going for style, but that is there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Were said ideas using Crusader and/or Swordsage? It's definitely not going for style, but that is there.
    If I was judging (and I probably will, if I don't compete), I'd take off marks in Innovation there. It'd be like using Wizard for a Wu Jen -pretty much the exact same thing, with only a small difference.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Do it with a Sorcerer. Come on. You know you want to.
    Avatar by araveugnitsuga.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    The other ToB classes didn't even occur to me, but now that I think about them, I'm having trouble not looking their way longingly.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Kuulvheysoon, I'm going to try to drum up at least one other judge, so please don't feel obligated to, you know, just because you've judged the last 5 or so.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
    Spoiler
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    Characters:
    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
    Prizes:
    Eglath - 2nd Place Iron Chef XXXII


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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I think I have several of ways of doing this. One is Known Cheese, one is just painful even thinking about doing it, and one is going to get an extremely low Creativity score.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    Kuulvheysoon, I'm going to try to drum up at least one other judge, so please don't feel obligated to, you know, just because you've judged the last 5 or so.
    I'll judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
    The Underlord, you are clearly awesome.
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    I'll judge.
    Great, thanks, The Underlord! That's one. I'll go find us another.

    Looks like a lot of interest in this round, I look forward to all the entries.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
    Spoiler
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    Characters:
    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
    Prizes:
    Eglath - 2nd Place Iron Chef XXXII


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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Sign me up to judge, too. Let's see how this goes!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I'll be working on my judging criteria later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
    The Underlord, you are clearly awesome.
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Hmm, never peeked into this particular flavor of Iron Chef. Color me interested as a judge.
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Wow. This one looks to be a tough one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    To all the volunteer judges, thanks a lot. We can't do it without your help.

    @ Coidzor: If it were easy, this would be the Iron Chef competition . After all, we do come with double the prize money.

    To all competitors - the battle has begun. Let us see what you can whip up!
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
    Spoiler
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    Characters:
    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
    Prizes:
    Eglath - 2nd Place Iron Chef XXXII


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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    @ Coidzor: If it were easy, this would be the Iron Chef competition . After all, we do come with double the prize money.
    Yes, but I can usually see some way of accomplishing it. This... I just don't see any way. I suppose I've not memorized the entire body of spells, but very few come to mind as working to really recapture the spirit and style of martial adepthood.

    So I'm going to be particularly impressed at any successes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Thumbs down Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    This is a really hard goal to reach. I feel kinda bad, I fear my for my innovation score. ;(

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Fear not, Midnight_v, for all sauciers doth suffer under the same constraints!

    And honestly, martial adept was requested, and I really am interested to see how it goes.
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    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I wish to see someone capture the feel of Warblade 20 using only Fighter 20 or Barbarian 20.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowknight12
    There is only one weapon which is always good in all situations: a spell. You are playing a warlock, who cannot cast spells. Welcome to the world of the fighter. We have goblets of Bitter Tears of Sorrow, freshly shed by those who spent all their feats and class features to specialise in melee weapons and faced flying foes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    Smoke weed strange herbs catnip to learn spells. You are a magic pothead kitten.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by legomaster00156 View Post
    I wish to see someone capture the feel of Warblade 20 using only Fighter 20 or Barbarian 20.
    While build speculation if discouraged, even in jest, I would find that fascinating as well.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Just a quick bump to remind everyone this competition is still open.

    While the competitors work on their builds, what other classes should I consider in the future? I am deciding between two right now, but some discussion may help clarify where I want to go and give ideas for future contests.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I'd really hope for Ranger. Also, Druid would be nice.

    This challenge is beyod me though. I have no idea what to do for this one, so I'll sit this one out.
    Illud quod aeternitatem iacere potest non mortuus est, ac dis peregrinis etiam mors moriatur.

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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I'm sorry to hear that, SheepInDisguise. Hopefully you'll have more ideas in the next round.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I've got a couple ideas I'm playing with, however I just realised my favourite one (core only martial adept using fighter) won't work, so we'll see if I can get something I'm satisfied with before the deadline.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    So sorry to hear your first option didn't work out. I'm sure you'll be able to come up with something, motoko.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Well I managed to get it working...better, its no longer core though and I ended up dropping the {redacted} levels completely. The second backup one I was working on hit an even worse snag, so thats scrapped, luckily I've been inspired so I might have another couple of ideas by the time the deadline rolls around.
    Last edited by motoko's ghost; 2012-09-25 at 09:01 AM. Reason: ok its redacted now

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by motoko's ghost View Post
    Well I managed to get it working...better, its no longer core though and I ended up dropping the {redacted} levels completely. The second backup one I was working on hit an even worse snag, so thats scrapped, luckily I've been inspired so I might have another couple of ideas by the time the deadline rolls around.
    Whoah! no speculation in the thread, please, regarding builds.
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
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    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    Whoah! no speculation in the thread, please, regarding builds.
    Whoops, sorry.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    Any progress by other contestants?
    Chairman of Zinc Saucier. Currently judging made from scratch Flayerspawn Psychics. It is just like Iron Chef but comes with double the prize money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.
    Spoiler
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    Characters:
    Grath - Southern Comfort Campaign
    Prizes:
    Eglath - 2nd Place Iron Chef XXXII


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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Zinc Saucier 8: Just what kind of adept are we talking about?

    I've got a few builds very close to complete (just skills and items left). I think it's just going to be a matter of resigning to one of them, and then actually writing the entry out. I'll definitely have something in by Friday.

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