League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut

[Godskook]

Ok, I don't play draven and why was he named Dr.Aven's? I had no idea it was about draven.

Pretend Dr.Aven had no capitalization or punctuation.

[LordShotGun]

Pretend Dr.Aven had no capitalization or punctuation.

Ah, ok. I guess I don't really 'get it' since I cannot play AD carry and thus have never tried Draven.

My play style and mindset (as you may be able to extrapolate from my name) is all about "Rrrrrahahhaha CHARGE! SMASH! KILL! GET INTO THEIR FACES", which means I enjoy tanky DPS characters (Udyr, Jax and Olaf) as well as close range AP heroes (kennen and Ryze in particular) and in your face supports (Alistar, Leona,Taric, Blitz).

This is very poor mental state to take when you are the high priority low hp/defenses AD carry.

[Lix Lorn]

Graves.
xD
He even has a shotgun.

[PersonMan]

3 games yesterday.

Three leavers on our side in total, one per game. The first we almost one ,the second I had to try and replace Xerath as AP carry (support LB) and the third just kind of fell apart.

Honor system looks interesting.

[Terribad]

Why does Pentakill Olaf remind me of Vikke the Viking Metal Zombie Lord from Lollipop Chainsaw?

[NineThePuma]

I just got a draft game where 4 different players want top. We managed to kind of work around it, but I'm not sure how this will go.

Updates as this story unfolds.


In the end, we won, because ADC Garen is OP.

[TechnOkami]

Why does Pentakill Olaf remind me of Vikke the Viking Metal Zombie Lord from Lollipop Chainsaw?

I... did not think that at all. He's too buff to be that fat blobby excuse of a Viking.

[sonofzeal]

Which champions have the lowest skill floor? Which require the least sense of positioning and/or least attention to the details of your skills?

Teemo's an obvious candidate - level Q and W, then autoattack and/or run away as appropriate, occasionally dropping mushrooms any time they're ready, doesn't even matter that much where.

Any others?

[TechnOkami]

Which champions have the lowest skill floor? Which require the least sense of positioning and/or least attention to the details of your skills?

Teemo's an obvious candidate - level Q and W, then autoattack and/or run away as appropriate, occasionally dropping mushrooms any time they're ready, doesn't even matter that much where.

Any others?

Mordekaiser.

Hands down.

[Math_Mage]

Which champions have the lowest skill floor? Which require the least sense of positioning and/or least attention to the details of your skills?

Teemo's an obvious candidate - level Q and W, then autoattack and/or run away as appropriate, occasionally dropping mushrooms any time they're ready, doesn't even matter that much where.

Any others?

Graves, Morgana, and Soraka come to mind. Honestly Teemo's position against most tops is so precarious without good kiting that I wouldn't say he has a low skill floor.

[mrcarter11]

Sonofzeal, dominion?

[sonofzeal]

Sonofzeal, dominion?

Sorry, not right now.

[Terribad]

Singed! Turn on Q, R and run at the enemy. Bind /l to a key and continually press it as you do so.

[Arbitrarity]

Which champions have the lowest skill floor? Which require the least sense of positioning and/or least attention to the details of your skills?

Teemo's an obvious candidate - level Q and W, then autoattack and/or run away as appropriate, occasionally dropping mushrooms any time they're ready, doesn't even matter that much where.

Any others?

Mage:
Ryze
Sion
Mordekaiser
(can't agree with Morgana; too dependent on binding for damage)

AD Carry:
Graves
Tristana
Ashe?

Bruiser:
Garen
Yorick
Warwick
Xin Zhao
Udyr
Darius?

Support:
Taric
Soraka
Nunu
Not Sona (Power Chord is srs business)

Tank:
Rammus (jungling inherently a bit tricky though)
Shen
Mundo
Singed (has some trouble in early lane)

[Godskook]

The skill floor is probably best rewarded to those champs who are naturally high-damage and high-tank, regardless of items.

Warwick comes to mind as being stupid strong regardless of the vegetable that happens to be playing him on a given day.

Xin Zhao and Irelia are also probably good candidates. Volibear, cause you'd have to really bad at this game to not build health on him. Probably Sejuani for the same reason. I'd say Mundo, but cleavers are a skill shot, and we're talking about the floor here, which means they won't be landing skill shots reliably. Rammus and Malphite both get damage scaling from strong durability items(Abyssal for MR and any armor items), so yeah.

[dgnslyr]

Mordekaiser may have a low skill floor, but I still can't play him, and his portrait looks at me guiltily at the thought of buying a champ I've played maybe thrice. I mean, it's just a matter of pushing lane, eating wraiths, and ulting the carry in fights, right? Yet I somehow can't get the metal-man down.

[TechnOkami]

Mordekaiser may have a low skill floor, but I still can't play him, and his portrait looks at me guiltily at the thought of buying a champ I've played maybe thrice. I mean, it's just a matter of pushing lane, eating wraiths, and ulting the carry in fights, right? Yet I somehow can't get the metal-man down.

You're also supposed to shut down whoever's mid. His bread n' butter E has a wonderfully deceptive range. Though that's optional, but preferred. To be honest, just kill whatever walks towards you, until it rolls around to the late game. Then it becomes more of an "Ult n' Kill the Carry Scenario", sometimes.

[Miscast_Mage]

What worries me about trying Morde is making proper use of his shield; I've tried him when he was free, and ended doing more damage to myself and never made good use of the shield. Though when he gets Hextech revolver, I can imagine he'll be a-ok from that point.

Also, AP Yi; why do people keep on insisting this is the worst thing in the world?

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To be fair though, Syndra was... not very smart, or aware. I got quite a lot of alpha strikes on her that I simply should not have gotten if she placed herself a little better, i.e., away from the three caster minions when I had alpha strike up. I went to gank top a few times, with varying success, and came back to mid through river brush and ganked her. I think I did this about four times, getting two kills, and then Ashe and Xin did the exact same thing from the exact same brush a minute after and did get the kill. You'd think that after five ganks she'd get a ward for that brush, but apparently not.

So yeah, why do keep people shriek and howl and cry when I say AP Yi in champ select? He has problems, sure, mainly being:

• Most of his burst(Alpha Strike + DFG + Ignite + Lichbane proc) coming from one ability, so BV is a very good counter to him, unless an ally can pop it for him first.
• Hard CC or CC that can break him out of his meditank really has to be watched and accounted for.

But honestly I think that his positives(amazing harass in lane if you calculate minion placement, great sustain plus a "screw you, I'mma live!" button with his meditate(seriously, so satisfying diving in for a kill and they try to kill you first, only for you to meditrololol away while they die to ignite/minions), and Highlander's CD resets on kills just lets him mop a fight so effortlessly if he gets that chance).

[Mtg_player_zach]

Arb I disagree about shen. You have to manage energy well or you can't use taunt.

Also ap yi is the best thing ever.

[Talesin]

So yeah, why do keep people shriek and howl and cry when I say AP Yi in champ select? He has problems, sure, mainly being:

For the most part i'd just argue that its not considered part of the meta and therefore people don't like it. I've got nothing against an AP yi and in games I play, even ranked, i'm happy for people to play what they want. But the general attitude of the community is that if you're not playing what is considered 'normal' then you're a noob and costing them the game.


As a side note i'm actually wondering whether Heimer needs a total rework or whether he could just get by with a few tweaks, whether minor or major enough to be considered a rework. I'll break it down slightly as to why I thinking this (i'm also going to post this on the official forums at some point but i'd like to get some feedback if people have any).

Heimer (this is long)

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Heimer rework information is coming from this website, I don't know how up to date this is but i'm going to use the information for discussion.

A look at his abilities

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Passive

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Heimerdinger gives himself and nearby allied structures and units 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 health regeneration per 5 seconds. (Available at levels 1, 6, 11, 15)

This isn't a strong passive but it does give Heimer the ability to stick around in lane for longer than other mids and something I think would be missed slightly if it went. At level 1 it is better than a rejuv bead and at level 6 is a free regrowth pendant. It's nothing to complain about but later in the game I would hardly call it strong. I've heard talk of people saying that you can heal turrets up but at 25hp5 you're only healing 300hp a minute and you've gotta stay close to it.

The idea of using scrap as part of a new passive was interesting. They drop every 4 minion deaths and restore mana and reduce cooldowns by 1 second if picked up.

Heimer definitely needs the help when it comes to mana so something along those lines would be interesting for the character and the reduced cooldowns is always nice. I think this does fit with Heimer's lore as being an inventor too, using old parts to create something new. Could be expanded to give a small amount of health back but it's not essential.

Q, Turrets

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Active: Heimerdinger constructs a Turret with 260 + (15 × level) health that fires at nearby enemies, dealing magic damage (half damage to towers and inhibitors). Heimerdinger stores enough parts for a new turret every 25 seconds (affected by cooldown reduction). Turrets attack 50% faster for the first 6 seconds after placement.
Rank 1: Yellow turret.
Rank 2: Green turret: reduces armor & magic resist by 1 for two seconds every hit (max 50).
Rank 3: Green turrets: max turrets increased to 2.
Rank 4: Green turrets: gain an additional 125 health.
Rank 5: Red turrets: now apply 50% splash damage.

The bread and butter Heimer skill. I've discussed the damage this ability can do lower in this post but I would like to highlight a few problems with this ability.

Firstly Heimer needs rank 3 in turrets to be useful in my opinion because a single turret doesn't do enough damage. I say this because with only a single turret up/available you aren't threatening enough to stop a hard engage.

The rework changed the turrets significantly by increasing the turret deployment (and parts storage) from 1(2)/1(2)/2/2/2 to 1/1/2/2/3, reducing the turret recharge timer from ranks 3 onwards, with a slight increase at lower ranks, and they've now got a new ammo + damage scheme. Plus a few changes to sight, health + health scaling and range.

The change makes them more powerful but I would argue they actually cause more problems by changing the storage to 1/1/2 at lower ranks. The ability to move your turret a second time is so important in the changing nature of the laning phase.

If you drop a turret and then have to run into the jungle or into the river for a fight, not having a turret available means Heimer is severly gimped even if he has the mana to use his other abilities just due to the presence the turret gives you. Heimer already has to play conservative with turret placement and I think this might gimp him a little too much, though it would be restored to normality around level 5 (assuming you're getting to rank 3 quickly)

However the good parts of this, ignoring the damaging ability stuff because the numbers can change easily and i'm not sure how they'll function, are reduced mana cost and part cooldown at higher ranks is a god send for Heimer. It should allow you to deploy turrets at most locations you move around to and then quickly charge new ones for a given fight. I would guess that if the cooldown went live (especially with 40% CDR) it would need to be nerfed a little because it's too strong at max rank, but that's my opinion.

Making them squishier is an interesting option they've gone for, though you get more armor/MR than before at the cost of a lot less hp, though with some minor scaling from AP. But that should allow for strong counter play against the turrets compared to at the moment when they can take two abilities to drop them, even more if placed further apart. However this does make them smiteable in 1 hit where that's not always the case at the moment.

I'm not sure how a third turret being available will change the current equilibrium of Heimer. I'd love to have a go with it and see how it plays. It definitely won't be a bad thing though, might be too strong if you max Q first and then just go around the map taking buffs/being a pain in the enemy jungle.

W, Rockets

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Heimerdinger fires 3 long range rockets that hit the enemies closest to him. 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+ 55% AP)

Rockets are the skill I believe should be maxxed first on Heimer because you need the poke/damage in lane. I tend to go for maxxing this ability after I pick up my third rank in Q because you need the stability a second turret gives you. This ability does hit hard, only has a 10second cooldown but is a whopping 145 mana at max level!

This ability requires skill to use because you need to ensure you're hitting your lane opponent, which involves complicated observation of minion deaths. Long range farmers can easily out range this ability but you can use this to your advantage to zone them off creep waves and cost them CS.

The biggest weakness is that during teamfights it is very difficult to focus a target because of how the mechanics work. This is a problem with Heimer's kit as a whole because you can only really direct the grenade, which i'll discuss in its own section, so nuking a target down can be difficult. However challenges like this are some of the things that makes the champion fun.

The rockets rework change will remove the problem of not being able to focus a target because you can fire the rockets where you want and skillful use of the ability will allow you to max damage done. Overall not a bad change but I still enjoy how the current ones work as its unavoidable damage if you play Heimer well.

E, Grenade

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Active: Heimerdinger lobs a grenade at a targeted location, dealing magic damage to enemy units and blinding them. Enemies who are directly hit are stunned for 1.5 seconds.
Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+ 60% AP)
Blind Duration: 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3
Radius: 250
Stun radius: 100 (approximate)
Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana

My god this skillshot is slow. Landing the stun I would say is more luck than skill in a lot of cases but it is doable and the blind duration at max rank is obscene given it can be landed AOE with the chance to stun. This is godly useful in teamfights, especially with the increased missile speed from the ult.

The biggest problem with this ability is that it is your ticket to go offensive in lane, but landing is just far too difficult without standing on top of someone. I'd like to see it getting the Anivia's Q treatment so you can detonate it sooner to apply a slow (not 40% as listed in the rework) if its on top of someone but it still moves the full duration and stuns/blinds at the end.

This would increase the usefulness but could be too powerful.

The rework changes increased the missile speed, made it easier to land with increased ranged on some of the effects and increased the duration. The ability to heal/increase the dps on turrets is niche but could be useful. Reduced mana cost is again nothing to scoff at.

Ult

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Passive: Heimerdinger gains cooldown reduction. Active: All active Evolution Turrets are healed for 100% of their maximum health. Also for the next 6 seconds all of his abilities are improved. His turrets turn blue and start to fire slowing frost shots. Newly created turrets also have this property. He now fires 5 Hextech Micro-Rockets instead of 3 and the missile speed on CH-1 Concussion Grenade is increased from 750 to 1000.
Cooldown Reduction: 10% / 15% / 20%
Turret Slow: 20% / 25% / 30%

This is where Heimer's play really becomes interesting and I think it is almost entirely down to his slow. The slow is brutal, if used correctly, and the damage quickly adds up providing you don't die (as turrets disappear). You hit deceptively hard and it becomes increasingly frustrating for your enemies to move around the battlefield, which allows you and your allies to chuck out the damage you require.

On top of the slow you've got 5 rockets now rather than 3 and dropping that grenade on 2-3 auto attackers, or someone diving for you/the ADC can easily save his life.

The biggest problem comes from misplacing your turrets during this ult. Plus you'll probably only get a single set of rockets off due to the duration of the ult + the cooldown of the rockets, which is a big shame. Changing the ult for rockets to "your next 2 rocket casts within the next 20 seconds will fire 5 instead of 3 rockets".

The rework changes the ability significantly and most important removes the slow. I hope they keep the slow on the ult if they can but I can see why throwing out 3 turrets instantly could be potentially devistating to the enemy team. Plus a cross shape of grenades could do some horrible things to teams if you're good with it.

General Weaknesses in gameplay

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Currently I would say Heimer's biggest weakness is misplacing turrets due to the shifting nature of fights. Too many times you place your turrets down, the fight shifts away from them and you've lost a massive amount of utility and damage. It is almost odd to say that Heimer actually excels when the other team has strong initiation and can force the fight to occur at a given place.

If your team initiates you're actually at a disadvantage because if the enemy team retreats even slightly you won't be able to get your turrets into a place where they can do meaningful damage or slow the enemy with your ult up.

This ties in with a second problem that revolves around laning. It is very difficult to kill the other laner without them attacking you first due to the nature of Heimer's kit. Grenade is woefully slow to the point where a kill generally only occurs when the other laner makes a huge blunder and that allows you to kill them.

The third biggest problem I find that faces Heimer is that he requires 3 ranks in his Q (turrets) to be even remotely useful in lane as you need a second turret to duel enemies if they hard engage on you. This means you start ramping up your rocket damage at level 7, assuming you go for the turret rush, while everyone else is on the 4th rank of their main skill.

It's not a huge problem, as some characters have to spread points around, but with Heimer having that second turret available to you is essential in being able to lane if they go all in on you.

A final minor issue is Heimer's ability costs that basically leaves you needing a Chalice, potentially more, just to stay competitive in lane. I would argue the biggest problem here is actually the ability of newer players to pick him up because without mana runes/masteries and a chalice, so he just seems much weaker than he is.

General Strengths in gameplay

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With his weaknesses listed above its wise to also discuss Heimer's strengths.

If you take a situation that isn't like the ones i've listed above, so the fight occurs in a defined area with Heimer's turrets up and there's little movement away from the turrets, then Heimer is actually quite powerful and does hit hard.

The turrets do 62 + 20% AP damage every 1.25 seconds, it splashes 50% of the damage (not sure on the range but its not huge), it slows by 30% and on top of all this it shreds armour AND magic resist. Oh and there are 2 of them and if you drop a turret it attacks 50% faster for the first 6 seconds.

To give an example of a 'similar' ability, Anivia's ult does 160 + 25% AP per second, and slows for 20%. The ability hits harder and allows Anivia to combo abilities for more damage but it does it in a smaller radius (400 compared to the 525 of turrets) and slows for 10% less without any of the armour/MR shred.

I wouldn't compare them directly as one is an ult and one is an ult enhanced Q ability and both are only 1 part of a diverse kit but i'm trying to illustrate the point with a more recognisable ability as Heimer isn't seen that often now days.

Another strength of Heimer is his ability to take and control objectives. Heimer is given the pusher tag by the game and I believe previously he would've been rated as a pusher but the game has evolved to the point where a pusher can't just backdoor a lane quickly, they have to be able to escape once the other team reacts to them. Heimer can't do this like characters like Yi or Nidalee can.

However his ability to control buff points should not be underestimated. The ability to place turrets at blue, which currently can't be done over the wall and is something I agree with, and take the buff as it spawns before the jungler has time to react is something that is very powerful at lower elo or when a jungler is otherwise occupied elsewhere.

Additionally turrets placed around the dragon/baron pits means your zone of control can be extended to the point where they either have to waste abilities taking your turrets down (and they've got a fair chunk of health) or risk engaging on top of them. In this I believe Heimer actually has no equal, except maybe Zyra but i've not played her enough to have a valid opinion here.

Finally his ganks aren't actually that bad providing you can get into a good position. Grenade is a good tool if people are running past you because you can land it much easier. Plus the ability to block of an escape route completely through wise turret placement can't be ignored.

What would I change?

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Ok so, i've criticised and analysed but what do I think should be done?

Firstly I think the reworks' increase in base movespeed, nerf to mana and mana regen but dramatic decrease in the mana cost of his abilities is a brilliant step forward for Heimer.

The change in passive will also help but i'm not sure how many pieces of scrap you'll be able to pick up in a team fight and I don't want it to get to the stage where you are saving scrap on the battlefield so you can unleash your cooldowns and then pick up several bits of scrap to try and drop someone. It would be a fun mechanic but one that I don't think is necessary to need to play him effectively. It is called magnetic scrap, so why not have them slowly move towards Heimer over time if he's within a certain radius?

The change to his turrets i'm not sure about. Having another turret will be incredibly useful and I don't think increasing the number of turrets to 3 will work with the current ult because you can then effectively slow an entire team so he would utterly shut down characters like Udyr.

I would like to see a small reduction in how long it takes to build a turret from the scrap parts, say down to 16-18 seconds, and also have the ult give you an additional turret, still up to the same maximum of 2, and also half the cooldown (to half a second from 1 second) on placing turrets during your ult. Removing the ability to smite them would also be very useful especially at higher ranks of play.

A switch round of ranks 2 and 3 of turrets would also be desirable but i'd prefer to see how that worked in testing as having strong poke and the ability to deter people from hard engages on you could be far too strong.

I think rockets are in a good place but i'd prefer them to prioritise champions if there are at least 2 champions within rocket radius. So you still get the interesting play when you're alone in lane but then when team fights break out you're not nuking down Yorick ghouls and catching stray minions. Plus the change listed above for the ult.

For Grenade i'd like to see it slow people it passes through and then carry on to detonate or make it like Hecarim's ult with the ability to detonate it for the blind/stun and then have it carry on moving the full length of the path to slow enemies hit by it.

The ult i'd honestly like to see left alone apart from the changes I listed in the ult section. I do think the slow on the turrets should be left on the ability because its a big part of how heimer plays and how he contributes to team fights.

If anyone has any comments, and the patience to read through what i've written, i'd like to hear them.

[Cogwheel]

So this seems like the right place for a picture no one will get.

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[dgnslyr]

AP Yi is the worst thing ever when he's on your team, where he'll ineffectually throw himself into the enemy team without dealing damage before dying. He's an absolute terror on the enemy team, where he'll dominate mid and chunk health-bars with his Alpha Strike, and prove nearly impossible to shut down. Ahh, the wonders of confirmation bias. Still don't think I've seen a good one on my team yet, though.

[Duos]

So this seems like the right place for a picture no one will get.

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Oh, if I had a deathcap...
yada dee da dee da da da yada dee da dee da dum......

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Oh, if I had a deathcap...
yada dee da dee da da da yada dee da dee da dum......

All day long I'd dominate my lane...
If I were an A. P. Mid...

[Godskook]

Also, AP Yi; why do people keep on insisting this is the worst thing in the world?

Its not his best case, its his worst case that is his problem. A Yi who's shut down is *WAY* more useless than other mids, even LB, who at least has silences, roots, and the reliability of base damage numbers. Yi's only methods of dealing damage is items and ult-reseting. If he can't get items and can't reset his ult, he's screwed.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Its not his best case, its his worst case that is his problem. A Yi who's shut down is *WAY* more useless than other mids, even LB, who at least has silences, roots, and the reliability of base damage numbers. Yi's only methods of dealing damage is items and ult-reseting. If he can't get items and can't reset his ult, he's screwed.

And how do you plan on shutting him down? He can just farm at tower and take wraith for like forever. Or gank sidelines. Or contest dragon. etc.

[Joran]

I can play a capable Jungle Nautilus, but I've come to the realization that I can't carry with him. His damage is pretty mediocre, so I rely on my teammates to kill for me, which is iffy.

If I want to carry or make an impact from the jungle, which characters would you recommend? Oh and a champion like Lee Sin takes more mechanical skill than I have time to master ;_;

I'm thinking Amumu or Hecarim for my next project.

[Winthur]

All day long I'd dominate my lane...
If I were an A. P. Mid...

The first time I played Fiddle I was mid against a Corki and I fed hard and lost my team the game.

Seems like the Fiddle in lane dies mainly from a plane.

[Neoseanster]

The first time I played Fiddle I was mid against a Corki and I fed hard and lost my team the game.

Seems like the Fiddle in lane dies mainly from a plane.

Ware, here there be explained jokes!

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It was a parody of a song from Fiddler on the Roof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc

[Winthur]

Ware, here there be explained jokes!

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It was a parody of a song from Fiddler on the Roof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc

More explained jokes!

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Yeah, and I decided to make a pun out of the famous song from My Fair Lady. Since FotR and MFL are both musicals.

Hey, I might be worse than Neoseanster at Janna, but I'm probably better at The Spy and puns.