League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut

[LordShotGun]

Does anyone remember Skarner's basic clear time off of the top of their heads?

Because it doesn't take much to realize that Regrowth+1 doesn't actually offer that much more HP than boots+3 immediately after your initial clear.

It's pretty simple. Regrowth pendant offers 3 HP/second. However, you have two health potions less than the boots start jungler. At 150 HP a pop, that's a 300 HP deficit that Regrowth has to make up. At 3 HP/second, it takes Regrowth Pendant 1 minute and 40 seconds to break even with the boots start in terms of HP and that's assuming that you're always at less than full HP and thus benefiting from the regen. Since Regrowth doesn't kick in until you start taking damage, and in a normal jungle scenario you'll never start taking damage until 1:40, you aren't actually any safer in terms of straight HP until 3 minutes and 20 seconds into the game. Even then, you aren't significantly ahead of the boots start until the 4 minute mark, and while you're marginally more capable of ganking with safe HP after your initial clear you're significantly less capable of ganking in the first place. Bootsless Skarner doesn't scare anyone.

I don't know the math but after some testing it is clear in real game play that there is a significant difference in heath by the end of the clear and you save 70 gold worth of potions.

[Silverraptor]

So, I played Dominion after watching the dominion cinematic. It felt really weird playing it for some reason. Also, played Kha'zix again.

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So much fun! I did so much better playing him. It also was eaiser when I was building and playing him as a tanky brusier assassin then just straight glass-cannon assassin (Stupid Phreak). That extra health and armor would keep you alive long enough to get an extra ability in to secure the kill or whatever. Also, people seem to underestimate Taste their Fear's damage when they are isolated.

[ex cathedra]

Boots provide superior ability to gank, counter-gank, invade, react to invades, chase in a combat scenario, and escape in a combat scenario in addition to the time it shaves off of your clear.

Cloth+5 is bad on pretty much everyone but those champions with negative sustain and/or built-in mobility who need to spend prolonged periods outside of their own jungle or the base. It's pretty much only useful for counter-jungling on certain champions in certain matchups in games where you need boots that aren't ninja tabi. Get with the times, stop starting with cloth armor.

I don't know the math but after some testing it is clear in real game play that there is a significant difference in heath by the end of the clear and you save 70 gold worth of potions.

What's there to know? I laid it all out pretty clearly.

As far as potions go, that's not the worst of things. Potions are really good. People buy them all of the time. I can spend 70 gold in potions to replicate the effect of a 435g item for the length of my first full clear. That 70 gold that you aren't spending on potions does nothing compared to the amount of utility and versatility that boots offer.

[LordShotGun]

As far as potions go, that's not the worst of things. Potions are really good. People buy them all of the time. I can spend 70 gold in potions to replicate the effect of a 435g item for the length of my first full clear. That 70 gold that you aren't spending on potions does nothing compared to the amount of utility and versatility that boots offer.

Well I just know that starting boots+ 3 does not allow me to gank safely versus regen + 1 AND offsets my gold just barely enough that I am unable to do a full clear, return to base and buy a philostone and boots.

I have tried both starts and have repeatedly regretted starting boots 3.

[Godskook]

Does anyone remember Skarner's basic clear time off of the top of their heads?

3:40, so 120 seconds flat, according to Stonewall, without boots(faster with boots).

That gives 360 HP for the pendant, for 60hp over the boots start.

[ex cathedra]

Is that his leash-less video clear time or I'm-in-an-actual-game-and-have-help clear time?

[Godskook]

Is that his leash-less video clear time or I'm-in-an-actual-game-and-have-help clear time?

That's the leash-less one in his S2 Jungle Skarner video.

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Anyway, after running a few tests on Skarner, I've noticed a few things:

1.People running the 'normal' path that hits mini golems after wraiths would be taking too much damage from that camp, and think Skarner's sustain is bad because of it. Skarner shouldn't use that path. He should be going back to wolves instead, since his damage is almost entirely AoE.

2.Skarner *needs* cooperation on wolves and blue in order to take both camps without massive HP loss that he won't recover from during his clear without E.

So, if you're going back for wolves and getting cooperation at wolves and blue, you'll be fine with boots(read: MathMage at ~1800 Elo). If you're not, I can see why you're using regrowth, but there's room to improve.

[Ivellius]

1.People running the 'normal' path that hits mini golems after wraiths would be taking too much damage from that camp, and think Skarner's sustain is bad because of it. Skarner shouldn't use that path. He should be going back to wolves instead, since his damage is almost entirely AoE.

2.Skarner *needs* cooperation on wolves and blue in order to take both camps without massive HP loss that he won't recover from during his clear without E.

So, if you're going back for wolves and getting cooperation at wolves and blue, you'll be fine with boots(read: MathMage at ~1800 Elo). If you're not, I can see why you're using regrowth, but there's room to improve.

I think very few junglers actually kill the mini golems anymore; aside from someone like Warwick, Fiddlesticks, or (arguably) Volibear that does pretty good single target damage it just takes too long and the wolves have always respawned anyway.

Seems like even solo queue leashes blue if not wolves as well these days, so I think you can usually count on that much.

[LordShotGun]

What website do you people use to host image files? Because I just had a perfect game with udyr and saved a screen shot but need a host in order to post it.

[sonofzeal]

What website do you people use to host image files? Because I just had a perfect game with udyr and saved a screen shot but need a host in order to post it.

I use Photobucket. It's a bit slow, and there might be better ones out there now, but I figure for the (free) service they're offering, the slight inconvenience is a reasonable "cost" to pay.

[Godskook]

I think very few junglers actually kill the mini golems anymore; aside from someone like Warwick, Fiddlesticks, or (arguably) Volibear that does pretty good single target damage it just takes too long and the wolves have always respawned anyway.

Phoenix Udyr really doesn't care either, and with help, some red-start junglers prefer actually starting Minis to Wraiths for better post-red clears(cause Wraiths is now available for immediate clear, and will still be available after wolves+blue).

And my Red-start Cho path goes Wraiths>Red>Minis>Wraiths>Wolves>Blue, and its *WONDERFUL*. I use it sometimes to counter junglers who like doing blue>red steal paths, since neither wraiths nor red will be up when the enter my jungle, but I'll typically still see them running around in my red-side, letting me know I can interrupt their own red when they try for it.

Seems like even solo queue leashes blue if not wolves as well these days, so I think you can usually count on that much.

At ~1300 ranked Elo, you generally can count on it(I usually lose a small wolf to a laner), but below that? Not so much.

[Leona]

What website do you people use to host image files? Because I just had a perfect game with udyr and saved a screen shot but need a host in order to post it.

www.imgur.com is very nice and easy

[LordShotGun]

Ah thank you. It was a fun game. Bottom lane had a very difficult time of it as leona draven assured I belive 3 kills before the ten minute mark. But vlad was kind enough to listen and we four man ganked them after I got an oracles and cleared up the wards. After that between wukong's clones and ultimate, and my stun, we could close and kill draven when even we wanted.

I even broke my usual build by getting a phage instead of warden's mail since our ADC was so out of it we needed more damage to deal with olaf and amumu.

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[Forrestfire]

I just got out of a game... I just... don't even know how someone could be that angry

I was playing Singed top against Darius, and dreading it, so I laned safely, Mundo got a good gank in and we got a kill, and I managed to keep darius at 1/1/1 with even farm vs my 1/1/0 for about fifteen minutes.

Meanwhile, mundo was trying to stop the bleeding from bot lane and mid lane, who got really outplayed. After a few failed ganks, Karthus gets tower dived when he stayed in lane with 1/8th health. Yeah...

Needless to say, he just loses it, cursing us out, calling us various offensive slurs (some in combinations I have never even heard), and just being a general ass. When we are losing the third inhibitor, he goes in and suicides, claiming that it was not worth playing with us... "except singed."

When I told him I was still reporting for verbal abuse, it was not pretty:

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Why do people get so angry over this game? This wasn't even ranked, it was just normals!

[Silverraptor]

I just got out of a game... I just... don't even know how someone could be that angry

I was playing Singed top against Darius, and dreading it, so I laned safely, Mundo got a good gank in and we got a kill, and I managed to keep darius at 1/1/1 with even farm vs my 1/1/0 for about fifteen minutes.

Meanwhile, mundo was trying to stop the bleeding from bot lane and mid lane, who got really outplayed. After a few failed ganks, Karthus gets tower dived when he stayed in lane with 1/8th health. Yeah...

Needless to say, he just loses it, cursing us out, calling us various offensive slurs (some in combinations I have never even heard), and just being a general ass. When we are losing the third inhibitor, he goes in and suicides, claiming that it was not worth playing with us... "except singed."

When I told him I was still reporting for verbal abuse, it was not pretty:

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Why do people get so angry over this game? This wasn't even ranked, it was just normals!

Take that picture and send it straight to support. Open a ticket and report that player with the post game chat. That's horrific.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I just got out of a game... I just... don't even know how someone could be that angry

I was playing Singed top against Darius, and dreading it, so I laned safely, Mundo got a good gank in and we got a kill, and I managed to keep darius at 1/1/1 with even farm vs my 1/1/0 for about fifteen minutes.

Meanwhile, mundo was trying to stop the bleeding from bot lane and mid lane, who got really outplayed. After a few failed ganks, Karthus gets tower dived when he stayed in lane with 1/8th health. Yeah...

Needless to say, he just loses it, cursing us out, calling us various offensive slurs (some in combinations I have never even heard), and just being a general ass. When we are losing the third inhibitor, he goes in and suicides, claiming that it was not worth playing with us... "except singed."

When I told him I was still reporting for verbal abuse, it was not pretty:

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Why do people get so angry over this game? This wasn't even ranked, it was just normals!

I find ranked and draft in general results in better games. People tend to care more about it and don't troll ranked. You'll still get flamers a bit, but the trolls are less so. People won't afk or intentionally feed when their elo is at stake. In normals people act like asshats.

I had a game earlier this week that I think toasty mentioned. We had a guy that was just flaming me and our mid lane I think. But it was ranked, so even though he was being an ass he was actively trying to win still. No afk, or feeding. He still worked with me, responded to pings and followed my lead into battle (I was hecarim and our initiation). So even if a guy is flaming you or a teammate in ranked, he'll usually try to win and work with you still. I also ignored him at some point, so it actually turned out to be a pleasant game.

[Godskook]

I don't think people realize that is impossible to completely clear the jungle as skarner with boots+ 3 and stay at a health that enables ganking.

I hate to be blunt about this, but you're wrong. I had to buy Skarner and start playing jungle paths and matches with him to know this, but now I do. In your Elo, with your team-mates, on your path, and/or with your setup, that is what you have seen, but it is *NOT* impossible to keep skarner's health up during the path with a boots+3 start.

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In other news, what does Jungle Olaf build these days? I was running Mallet+Zeke's+'Serkers+GA+HoG+Philo in my game as him earlier, and while I did ~okay, I'm not quite sure it was optimal.

'Course, that's partly cause I was entirely winging it. I used AD Marks/Quints with defensive seals/glyphs, and 19/11/0 masteries. My early game felt fine, but their top-Jayce and jungle Malphite both got really out of hand and cost us the game.

[Volatar]

www.imgur.com is very nice and easy

www.minus.com is just as easy as Imgur and doesn't compress the images (unlike Imgur).

[Winthur]

Why do people get so angry over this game? This wasn't even ranked, it was just normals!

Only QQ can torment Forrestfires.

[TechnOkami]

...I should support more often, methinks.

I just had the silliest most stupid-fun awesomesauce stuff happen. I, for whatever reason, tried my hand at Ranked today. First, as Mordekaiser. Basically everyone fed (I kept getting killed in teamfights which shouldn't have happened), and we lost, especially due to a qqing teemo complaining about our MF. Whatev', I keep going.

I roll out with Sona Support for a Graves. Apparently there was a Garen and a Varus bot, and for whatever unfathomable reason, Garen chases Graves down with ignite and spin. Completely ignoring me, I auto attack, ignite, and Q him to death, saving Graves. Then I get into a 1v1 fight with a no cs Varus, we damage each other, Graves dashes in for the kill. The rest of the game was us pretty much snowballin' out of control, me getting silly kills (like igniting and Qing a low health Garen, who fed us like 3 kills), and me running around getting Graves fat n' happy.

I have never had more hilariously dumb fun in a game before, & I am never going to ADC again, for as long as I can help it. I will gladly support whoever, whenever, as long as they're competent enough to get kills when the window of opportunity opens.

(I'm kinda in a good mood, if you haven't figured out. )

[Nadevoc]

In other news, what does Jungle Olaf build these days? I was running Mallet+Zeke's+'Serkers+GA+HoG+Philo in my game as him earlier, and while I did ~okay, I'm not quite sure it was optimal.

'Course, that's partly cause I was entirely winging it. I used AD Marks/Quints with defensive seals/glyphs, and 19/11/0 masteries. My early game felt fine, but their top-Jayce and jungle Malphite both got really out of hand and cost us the game.

What I've heard is that Olaf apparently goes 21 in Utility. 0/9/21, I'm pretty sure, making sure to pick up the CDR masteries in Utility. Max Undertow first; CDR'd Undertow is basically the key to Olaf's jungle. Throw it basically at your feet so it hits the camp and you immediately pick it up, letting you spam it at almost no CD. Pretty sure HoG and/or Philo is standard. Basically what it comes down to is managing your Q; make sure to set up at jungle camps so you can throw/pick it up with no/minimal walking. When ganking, make sure to throw it so that you hit and can pick it up without going much out of the way. Pretty sure his first clear is always going to be pretty risky, but after that he starts turning into OLAF! Berkserker man that isn't afraid of anything!

[TheShrike]

In other news, what does Jungle Olaf build these days? I was running Mallet+Zeke's+'Serkers+GA+HoG+Philo in my game as him earlier, and while I did ~okay, I'm not quite sure it was optimal.

'Course, that's partly cause I was entirely winging it. I used AD Marks/Quints with defensive seals/glyphs, and 19/11/0 masteries. My early game felt fine, but their top-Jayce and jungle Malphite both got really out of hand and cost us the game.

I find I have success with Philo, HoG, upgrade to Shurelia's, upgrade to Randuin's as my core. From there, I often grab a Frozen Heart and a Maw of Malmortius, and follow up with something like Mallet or Warmog's. I run flat AD red/quints, armour yellows, scaling MR blues and 9/21/0 masteries. Due to the massive damage on 40% CDR Qs and Es, I find Olaf often doesn't need to build much further damage, and Shurelia's fixes his post-blue mana problems as well as giving him another mini-Ghost. Besides, Kindlegem is basically one of the strongest low-tier items in the game on Olaf, so Philo/HoG/Kindlegem is actually a really powerful (and cheap) core.

[Godskook]

Sounds like I was mostly on par, just need to prioritize CDR a bit more.

Also, Nadevoc, what the hell is in Utility that you're using 21 in it? The CDR mastery doesn't seem worth it since he's got enough itemization to hit cap anyway.

[Zen Master]

Why do people get so angry over this game? This wasn't even ranked, it was just normals!

.... I don't think most people get mad over the game. I think they get mad at people. At least, that's the case for me. I honestly don't care if I win or lose - but some of the attitudes out there can drive me nuts.

It's like ... at character selection, if anyone tries to shoe horn me into doing something they don't want to themselves (such as deciding I must play support because I'm last pick), I quite frankly want to punch them in the face.

And I'm a support player. But the assumption that it's somehow their call to make - or that I must play along with their BS simply because I got randomly dumped in last pick .... however, such assumptions seem to be rarer these days.

Also, I really feel like the honor thing is making the community friendlier. I much approve =)

[Godskook]

It's like ... at character selection, if anyone tries to shoe horn me into doing something they don't want to themselves (such as deciding I must play support because I'm last pick), I quite frankly want to punch them in the face.

You do realize this runs contrary to what some consider standard ettiquette for solo queue, right?

Also, I really feel like the honor thing is making the community friendlier. I much approve =)

I noticed that too. Its kinda nice that games are improving, ain't it?

[TheShrike]

So why is it people just plain choose to gimp themselves? For example, an Amumu and a Varus who, seeing the enemy Trynd get really fed and the enemy Anivia have less gold than either support, build Banshee's Veil and Maw respectively. Or again, said Varus chooses to build Infinity Edge into Black Cleaver, with not a Phantom Dancer in sight 4 items in. Do you want to ever put that delicious crit passive to use? Or Jayce, who decides to go Triforce instead of AD, but follows it up with Hexdrinker instead Glacial Shroud (again, against a fed Trynd). Triforce is about rapid ability use and base damages, so how does that work well with AD over CDR, again?

People don't seem to actually think through their builds on a game-to-game basis. They just have this one almighty build in their pocket and always pull it out, no matter what. Sure, I'm fairly guilty of that on some champions (Mordekaiser and Nasus come to mind) but I'll at least change an item here or there, or maybe item order if nothing else.

[Zen Master]

You do realize this runs contrary to what some consider standard ettiquette for solo queue, right?

Heh - I love this guy. His language is perfect =)

I still disagree with him. Random pick assignments is just one facet of the whole - personally, I feel the most important role should fall to the last pick, because he then cannot be countered. But that's not even really my point.

My point is that I will not be pushed around.

Now, were someone to ask me - maybe even politely, but that's not required - I never have any problems filling in the blanks. But I will not be told by random strangers what I must and must not do.

I noticed that too. Its kinda nice that games are improving, ain't it?

Yes it is. I also did notice a lot of people fishing for honor. I'm not entirely sure how to feel about that. I give honor to those who stand out - not to anyone who wasn't an ass, or asks me to. It feels like that would be diluting it, but maybe I'm wrong. After all, it doesn't cost me anything.

[Volatar]

I present the game that Mario considers his second best game ever:

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This game should have ended at 30 minutes in when we got pushed into your base only having taken two of their towers. And their Trynd was 14/5.

They then Baroned.

And somehow we continued to survive.

For forty more minutes.

How it happened is sort of a blur. But we focused. Coordinated. And listened to what Mario told us to do.

We never managed to ace them. But we did manage to win team fights and eventually, with far too much effort, push and win. Even with a bare Nexus.

It. Was. Amazing.

[Zen Master]

Wow ... I just had what was without a doubt my best game ever. So much fun. And even the enemy team agreed, unanimously, that it was a very fun game.

I never knew Lulu could be so much fun. She has like a hundred tricks, and I think this was the first time I correctly used them all. I teamed with Karthus for much of the late game - it makes just a ton of difference. When he's just about to die, heal, bounce, shield, transmoglify the enemy carry ... and that's basically a team fight won.

Woo! =)

[sonofzeal]

Wow ... I just had what was without a doubt my best game ever. So much fun. And even the enemy team agreed, unanimously, that it was a very fun game.

I never knew Lulu could be so much fun. She has like a hundred tricks, and I think this was the first time I correctly used them all. I teamed with Karthus for much of the late game - it makes just a ton of difference. When he's just about to die, heal, bounce, shield, transmoglify the enemy carry ... and that's basically a team fight won.

Woo! =)

Lulu is incredibly difficult to play... but really rewarding when she works. She's one of the great examples of kit fitting lore - it's an oddball, rather whimsical, highly unpredictable support kit. She slows, or she hastes, or she shields, or she heals, or she hurts, or, heck, let's throw an entirely new class of CC in there just for giggles.

I can't play her well, and I always end up more frustrated than anything, but I still like her and like her kit.