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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Ok, I thought that Yaun-ti and Naga where just two names for the same creature in D&D, what's the difference?
    Yuan-ti are basically snake people which come in various forms (some have legs, some don't, some have smaller snakes for arms, etc.), whereas Nagas are giant snake creatures with normal heads instead of snake heads.

    For example:
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    Spirit Naga
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2012-09-28 at 09:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yuan-ti are basically snake people which come in various forms (some have legs, some don't, some have smaller snakes for arms, etc.), whereas Nagas are giant snake creatures with normal heads instead of snake heads.
    Ah ok, thank you very much.

    I used to play WoW, and in that game "Naga" are humanoids with the bottom half of snakes instead of legs(kind of like snake-centuars now that I think about it ). That must have been what confused me.

    Also, in WoW naga "evolved" from elves after the main elf-city got Atlantis'ed from the explosion of a gateway opened up for a world-killing demon-god, but that's a whole 'nother story.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2012-09-28 at 10:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Ah ok, thank you very much.

    I used to play WoW, and in that game "Naga" are humanoids with the bottom half of snakes instead of legs(kind of like snake-centuars now that I think about it ). That must have been what confused me.
    Nagas originally come from Hindu/Buddhist mythology, and have a lot of different roles there — they can be good or evil or tricksy, and all-snake or part-human or switch between the two (though in D&D they're always snakes with human heads). Traditionally, they're likely to be solitary guardians of secret shrines in deep jungles or caves.

    Yuan-ti were created specifically for D&D (specifically, the module Dwellers of the Forbidden City), and they're more Aztec snake-cult in theme. As Killian pointed out, they come in many forms: basically human with slight snake features, human with a major snake feature (like a head or snake tail), or mostly snake. Originally, they were humans who were corrupted by the snake god they worshiped. They're almost always evil, and are more likely to appear in social settings: a mysterious conspiracy in human lands, or isolated community of yuan-ti in the jungle.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    If you have an albino WHITE dragon...does anything change color? Does the dragon maybe turn clear?
    Like this guy:
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    If you can't see the picture, go here.

    Which inevitably leads to the question: what does an albino Force-dragon look like?



    Ok, I thought that Yaun-ti and Naga where just two names for the same creature in D&D, what's the difference?



    I hadn't thought of that; is there no cleric domain that gives you the Mage Hands spell?

    Well, since we're already neck-deep in the swamp of crazy theories, maybe if he's lying about being lizardfolk, he's also been faking the "cleric" thing this whole time with several levels of Artificer! Hence the reason he was so quick to run back to his chambers for some magic items when Nale first showed up.



    I've always thought that Malack acted like a male, and not even like a non-stereotypical female. Still he is obviously deeply disturbed over the loss of his children and is concerned with fostering more, which could very well represent some buried maternalistic feelings.

    I'd file it under the "possible but unlikely" heading that Malack is biologically female but that lizard (or snake) society doesn't subscribe to the same definitions of gender-roles that humans do. Basically, a variation on the whole She is the King! trope, except more, She is the High-Priest!
    I doubt Rich is gonna take time away from the epic heroic-fantasy tale to explore cross-species gender-identity issues, but maybe we'll see it as a bonus story in one of the books.
    Albino white dragons are the source of clear coat.

    The naga are a race of large snake-like aberrations with a humanoid face. Nagas do not have arms and cast spells anyway. Mostly they're lawful evil, but the guardian naga is lawful good and the water naga is neutral. The additional naga in Serpent Kingdoms have alignments all over the place. Naga advance by hit dice.

    Yuan-ti are a race of monstrous humanoids descended from humans mixed with snake bloodlines. They all have arms. They're all pretty much chaotic evil, and the most common types, purebloods and medium-sized. The pureblood looks fairly human, with two arms and two legs and a more-or-less human head. The yuan-ti abomination is large and has no legs, but still has human arms.

    According to Serpent Kingdoms, in the world of Toril at least, the sarrukh were one of the original creator races. They actually resembled the yuan-ti abomination but with a more triangular head and perhaps a longer torso atop the long serpent body. The sarrukh are medium monstrous humanoids. The sarrukh actually established the first empire in Toril, and hating the Scaleless Ones (non-reptilian humanoids), sought to breed new races by combining Scaleless ones with scaly creatures like snakes and dinosaurs, and even themselves. They first bred asabis, lizardfolk and pterafolk to serve as servants and later warriors.

    The sarrukh next bred the nagas. The nagas proved difficult to control, and while some stayed and served the sarrukh, the sarrukh let the rest go. Their greater individuality eventually led to all the different naga races with differing alignments.

    The sarrukh finally bred the yuan-ti. According to Serpent Kingdoms, the sarrukh bred the yuan-ti as a cross between humans and themselves with just a touch of serpent thrown in (not quite contradicting the Monster Manual entry that says yuan-ti are a cross between humans and snakes). The yuan-ti proved smarter than the original crossbreeds (asabis, lizardfolk and pterafolk) but more manageable than the naga, and seemed to enjoy being in charge of Scaleless Ones, so they became the favored servants of the sarrukh.

    Yuan-ti are more intelligent than lizardfolks, and inasmuch as yuan-ti look down even on even other yuan-ti who have lesser intelligence (and less serpent, or more likely, less sarrukh blood), it does seem unlikely that a yuan-ti could refer to himself as a lizardfolk.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Which inevitably leads to the question: what does an albino Force-dragon look like?
    Like a non-albino White Dragon, of course.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post
    stuff
    Of course, this is all Forgotten Realsm material and may (with "may" here meaning "will almost certainly") have nothing to do with the Stick-verse.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post
    Yuan-ti are a race of monstrous humanoids descended from humans mixed with snake bloodlines. They all have arms. They're all pretty much chaotic evil, and the most common types, purebloods and medium-sized. The pureblood looks fairly human, with two arms and two legs and a more-or-less human head. The yuan-ti abomination is large and has no legs, but still has human arms.
    As of 2nd and 3rd edition, yuan-ti abominations might or might not have arms:

    "Abominations are either all snake (50%) or have only a single human feature, either head or arms, and are of large size (10 feet long)." (2E Monstrous Compendium)

    "Yuan-ti abominations are all snake (01-50 on d%) or have a single human feature, either a head (51-75) or arms (76-00)." (3E Monster Manual)

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    The 3.5 MM, however, dropped those lines- defaulting to the armed abomination.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Yes. Even just in the last strip.
    Maybe that's just what the characters in the comic think Malack's gender is.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Maybe that's just what the characters in the comic think Malack's gender is.
    By that logic then, how can we be certain of anyone in the comic? Save for Roy and perhaps Elan since they have mentioned or shown to have dangly bits. Ya, questioning everyone because of "Well V" is just a ridiculous counter argument without merit, proof or substance.
    Last edited by Tebryn; 2012-09-28 at 03:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    By that logic then, how can we be certain of anyone in the comic? Save for Roy and perhaps Elan since they have mentioned or shown to have dangly bits. Ya, questioning everyone because of "Well V" is just a ridiculous counter argument without merit, proof or substance.
    Ridiculous? Not at all. In fact, you bring up a good point. How can we be sure of the gender of any of the characters? For all we know they could all be genderless like a Namekian...or yoshi.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    Yes. Even just in the last strip.
    In strip 863? If so, which panel? I looked it over, but didn't see it.



    Quote Originally Posted by jere7my View Post
    Nagas originally come from Hindu/Buddhist mythology, and have a lot of different roles there — they can be good or evil or tricksy, and all-snake or part-human or switch between the two (though in D&D they're always snakes with human heads). Traditionally, they're likely to be solitary guardians of secret shrines in deep jungles or caves.

    Yuan-ti were created specifically for D&D (specifically, the module Dwellers of the Forbidden City), and they're more Aztec snake-cult in theme. As Killian pointed out, they come in many forms: basically human with slight snake features, human with a major snake feature (like a head or snake tail), or mostly snake. Originally, they were humans who were corrupted by the snake god they worshiped. They're almost always evil, and are more likely to appear in social settings: a mysterious conspiracy in human lands, or isolated community of yuan-ti in the jungle.
    Thanks for the module reference. Yuan-ti thereafter appeared in the AD&D Monster Manual II, where only the halfbreeds (an earlier name of the halfbloods) had random body parts. The abominations "are often confused with nagas" and "are either totally snake-like or have only 1 human feature, such as as head or arms." The drawing of the yuan-ti in the AD&D Monster Manual II actually shows the abomination with arms and a curved two-handed sword, and that image has served as an archetype for the yuan-ti for decades. I prefer them with arms both for the creepier appearance--and for the extra attack.

    The Aztecs didn't worship snakes; the Aztec terror state was built largely on the worship of Huitzilopochtli, who was elevated from a hummingbird tribal totem to the supreme god of the sun and war by the psychopathic general Tlcarlel, the primary architect of the Triple Alliance that created the Mexcia (Aztec) empire by subjugating the other Nahuatl-speaking city states of what we now call the Valley of Mexico and beyond in Messoamerica (including some Mayan-speaking peoples). Quetzalcoatl was a much older Messoamerican deity, who opposed human sacrifice, and whose name in Nahuatl means "Feathered Serpent," and it's from him that Gary took the coatl with its good alignment.

    I've actually always thought of the yuan-ti as coming from the jungles of eastern Asia, since "yuan" is a Chinese word that means "round coin" and this is the name of the Chinese monetary unit, as was also the official name of the Mongol Dynasty that ruled in various parts of China from 1260 (established by Kublai Khan, a grandson of Genghis Khan) through 1368 (when it was defeated by the Ming Dynasty). Thai Yuan is also the name of a an ethnicity in northern Thailand. Southeast Asia has huge swaths of jungles (now called rainforests), the oldest on the planet, going back to the Pleistocene Epoch some 70 million years ago. It's easy to imagine great serpent kingdoms existing there long before humans walked the Earth, long ago collapsed, but whose remnants exist in the depths, plotting in secret to enslave the scaleless newcomers and renew ancient empires.

    Quote Originally Posted by jere7my View Post
    As of 2nd and 3rd edition, yuan-ti abominations might or might not have arms:

    "Abominations are either all snake (50%) or have only a single human feature, either head or arms, and are of large size (10 feet long)." (2E Monstrous Compendium)

    "Yuan-ti abominations are all snake (01-50 on d%) or have a single human feature, either a head (51-75) or arms (76-00)." (3E Monster Manual)
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The 3.5 MM, however, dropped those lines- defaulting to the armed abomination.
    Exactly. The 3.5 Monster Manual did away with random body parts for all three of the core yuan-ti. I'd actually forgotten about the old random body parts until Jere pointed it out (and that's also what led me to dig out my AD&D Monster Manual II as I mentioned above).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Maybe that's just what the characters in the comic think Malack's gender is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tebryn View Post
    By that logic then, how can we be certain of anyone in the comic? Save for Roy and perhaps Elan since they have mentioned or shown to have dangly bits. Ya, questioning everyone because of "Well V" is just a ridiculous counter argument without merit, proof or substance.
    I got the impression years back that Rich had originally intended V as a male, just a typically androgynous elven male, but after it turned out that some people thought V was female, he decided to run with the ambiguity.

    Either way though, I hope he doesn't do another ambiguous-gender character. Once is fun, but twice or more takes the fun out of it.
    Last edited by CelestialStick; 2012-09-29 at 12:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post
    Either way though, I hope he doesn't do another ambiguous-gender character. Once is fun, but twice or more takes the fun out of it.
    Then it's a good thing we can all tell the gender of V's spouse.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Then it's a good thing we can all tell the gender of V's spouse.
    That's part of the same joke.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    What if he's levitating somehow all the time? His robes might look like they do if he's not actually putting foot to pavement. Might he have some sort of permanent or long-lasting enchantment from an item or metamagicked spell?

    Or perhaps he's some sort of undead lizardfolk that doesn't care about sunlight but also doesn't need to walk? He seems corporeal enough anyhow.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by snikrept View Post
    What if he's levitating somehow all the time? His robes might look like they do if he's not actually putting foot to pavement. Might he have some sort of permanent or long-lasting enchantment from an item or metamagicked spell?

    Or perhaps he's some sort of undead lizardfolk that doesn't care about sunlight but also doesn't need to walk? He seems corporeal enough anyhow.
    Levitate doesn't give you lateral movement, but what about a good old fly? Fly gives you good maneuverability, which allows you to hover? It could be a extended fly.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Maybe Malack's the Slender Man?
    Last edited by Dr.Epic; 2012-09-29 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Maybe Malack's the Slender Man?
    I'm not familiar with the Slender Man, but with those loose robes he could be the Fat Man for all I know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post

    Exactly. The 3.5 Monster Manual did away with random body parts for all three of the core yuan-ti. I'd actually forgotten about the old random body parts until Jere pointed it out (and that's also what led me to dig out my AD&D Monster Manual II as I mentioned above).
    Actually purebloods didn't have random body parts in 3.0.

    And halfbloods have them in both 3.0 and 3.5- though in 3.0 they roll on a 1d6 table- and in 3.5 they roll on a d% table- with a 40% chance of being a "standard" snake-headed halfblood.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Actually purebloods didn't have random body parts in 3.0.

    And halfbloods have them in both 3.0 and 3.5- though in 3.0 they roll on a 1d6 table- and in 3.5 they roll on a d% table- with a 40% chance of being a "standard" snake-headed halfblood.
    Good catch. It looks like 3.5 got rid of the random abominations without arms, but maybe I'm missing that too.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    ...So this is what things are gonna be like around here with Rich out of commission, huh?

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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    ...So this is what things are gonna be like around here with Rich out of commission, huh?
    Rich is out of commission? What's wrong?
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    ...So this is what things are gonna be like around here with Rich out of commission, huh?
    Yep, pretty much. Given a lack of new material to OCD over, we forumites automatically revert to our only other option--to recursively OCD over whatever existing theories we have until the outcome closely resembles an image based on fractal geometry.

    Oh, and you may want to check the news page, CelestialStick.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2012-09-29 at 07:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post
    Good catch. It looks like 3.5 got rid of the random abominations without arms, but maybe I'm missing that too.
    It did. I think Serpent Kingdoms mentions one or two- but you can't generate them.
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    Default Re: Do We Know What Kind of Creature Malack Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by CelestialStick View Post
    Maybe he's the Greatest American Lizard!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA
    He has a brother, you know, who's a wizard that tutors a turtle... .
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    His best-known spell is "Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome, time for this one to come home!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yep, pretty much. Given a lack of new material to OCD over, we forumites automatically revert to our only other option--to recursively OCD over whatever existing theories we have until the outcome closely resembles an image based on fractal geometry.

    Oh, and you may want to check the news page, CelestialStick.
    I did. Thanks. That's too bad about his hand. Well, now I know not to keep checking for a new strip every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    It did. I think Serpent Kingdoms mentions one or two- but you can't generate them.
    That's okay. I like 'em with two arms and a large two-handed sword!

    Quote Originally Posted by rewinn View Post
    He has a brother, you know, who's a wizard that tutors a turtle... .
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    His best-known spell is "Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome, time for this one to come home!"
    You know, I actually vaguely recall that cartoon from when I was a kid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coat View Post
    Quite a few of the legless lizard subspecies have vestigial limbs.

    Okay, typically they're vestigial legs, and his arms aren't vestigial, but then typically they're also not intelligent tool-users.
    Some Amphisbaenia species, the bipedidae (mole lizards), retain only their forelimbs. _Bipes biporus_ is kind of cute for a reptile.

    Oh, and by the way, snakes are clearly nested within the groups we recognize as lizards, don't see any problem in defining a lizardfolk as snakelike, it would just mean Rich follows modern cladistic practice.
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