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Thread: Alignments of the stick
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2011-08-05, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Alignments of the stick
Okay, we have like 20,000 threads about each characters alignment. Why don't we all put them on one thread. Starting now:
Roy: LG
Haley: CG
Elan: CG
Belkar: CE
Varsuuvius: N, NE spliced
Durkon: LG
Xykon: CE
Redcloak: LE
Nale: LE
Hinjo: LG
Celia: LG
Miko: LG then LN
Mitd: N
Thog: CE
Sabine: CE
O-Chul: LG
Lien: LG
Tarquin: LE
Daigo and Kazumi: LG
Qarr: LE
Shojo: CG
Eugene: LG (for now)
Tsukio: NE
Ganji: LN
Z'zdriti: LE
Enor: ???
Malack: LN
Right Eye: CG
Ian: CG
Therkala: LN then N
Thanh: LG
Hilgya: CE
YikYik: CE
YokYok: LG
YukYuk: CE
Leeky: NE
Pompey: NE
Empress: CE
Samantha: CE
Jirik: LE
Crystal: CE
Lawyers: LN
Kubota: LE
Soon: LG
Serini: CG
Dorukan: NG
Lirian: NG
Kragnor: CG
Girad: CN
Bozzak: NE
Black Dragons: CE
Hank: ???
Inkyrius: ???
Missed anyone? probably. If I have please fill me in.Last edited by Sunken Valley; 2011-08-11 at 02:02 PM.
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2011-08-05, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
I am not sure about Naleīs claims about his "Lawful " alignment... He seems pretty Chaotic in his behaviour.
Of course it may be the same case as with Roy, according with the Daeva: "You never stop working to improve it.... Thatīs whatīs is important to us"Last edited by faustin; 2011-08-05 at 09:23 AM.
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2011-08-05, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
I would like to point out that Miko's alignment post falling is still debated to this day, Sabine is a Succubus thus a Devil and thus LE, V's alignment is fairly questionable right now, and I would say Ian is CG. An insane, paranoid CG but CG none the less. Belkar even points out the Robin Hood example from PH to Ian.
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2011-08-05, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Actually she's a succubus, thus a demon- thus has the Chaotic and Evil subtypes.
Her boss Lee, however, is a devil.
So it's not absolutely sure what alignment she is- even though succubi are Always Chaotic Evil- this simply means exceptions are very rare.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2011-08-05, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
First of all, the geekery thread has alignments listed.
Second of all, the reason each character gets countless threads is because we have no definite way of knowing for most of them which leaves a lot of space for speculation.Last edited by Zerg Cookie; 2011-08-05 at 10:16 AM.
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2011-08-05, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Ok, I'm gonna comment only on those I disagree with the OP. Let's start:
Varsuuvius:N, NE spliced
V was not evil when spliced, because as the IFCC stated, the splice didn't affect her alignment at all, just incited her to commit evil under the false impression that her aligment had been adjusted due to the splice and thus she was no longer responsible for her acts.
So her aligment was exactly the same, with splice of without it. Her acts under the splice certainly marked a shift towards Evil, but she has been actively trying to redeem since then.
About her basic alignment, I've always felt that there is something Lawful about her. So my veredict is:
Varsuuvius: LN
...
Miko: LG then LN
That Miko was LG as a Paladin is something that has been heavly contested in the Forums, but that it's a fact, for game mechanics. In fact, in OOoTPC the two Paladins that appear (the one at Roy's first party and Elan's former master) both state that they need to keep a LG alignment.
After her fall, there are grounds to arge that she shifted to LN, through I'm more of the oppinion that she keept being LG - after being freed from prison, her intention was to further pursue her vendetta against the OOTS. But as soon as she saw the City in ruins, she forgot her vendetta and proceed to the Throne Room to fulfill her duty, which she did in a too reckless way but sacrifying her own life nonetheless. Plus, in my oppinion, Miko switching aligment should defeat her whole concept in the strip - that a LG character can be pesterful and antagonistic to the good-aligned protagonists.
...
Sabine:CE
Through Succubus are supposed to be CE, it should be remembered that Sabine's direct suprerior is Director Lee, the LE one, and that she is the consort of Nale, which is LE (and, to this point, all "couples" in the strip had been the same alignment - that is, all the ones that stick: Roy an Celia, Elan and Haley, the Katos, etc.) Her (relatively) stable and long term relationship with Nale also point to a Lawful rather than Chaotic alignment.
Finally, there are many examples in D&D-based works in which non-chaotic Succubus have appeared - Planescape Torment to quote a popular example.
So my veredict is:
Sabine: LE
...
Right Eye:CG
Ahem... well, Right Eye appears as a very simpathetic character in Start of Darkness, but this doesn't go as far as to imply he was necessary CG. A CN alignment fits him better, as he cared for the lives of his close ones (but for no one else) and his disagreement with Redcloack and Xykon was more on the field of love for individual freedom rather than adherence to high ideals about Good.
It's true that he liked freedom of choice not only for himself, but for everybody. But that falls straight into the CN alignment.
So my veredict is:
Right Eye: CN
...
Ian:CN
Ian may be a greedy bastard and a total paranoid. But still, he is doing the Robbin Hood stuff all over around. It's very clear that he is nothing but CG.
So my veredict is:
Ian: CG
...
Therkala:LN
True Neutral or CN fits her better. A LN person would have stick to his Liege before all else. Therka put her personal feelings before Kubota's orders. She cared for the ones she liked, but that falls well under the TN or CN aligment, and even under the CE alignment. About CE, let's not forget that she actively avoided Lien's Detect Evil.
Plus, she is a Ninja, which doesn't sounds "lawful", bur rather "chaotic". She killed his teacher in the graduation ceremony, which doesn't sounds "neutral" but rahter "evil". In strip #586 she says "I'm sorry if this hurts. I'm a bit rusty on NOT killing people, but I'm doing my best", which may point to a shift from CE to CN due to Elan's influence.
So my veredict is:
Therka: TN, CN or possibly CE - Mabye CE then shifted to CN
...
Hilgya:CN
She served Loki. That alone points straight to CE, through it's true that a Cleric can divert one step from his God.
What definitely points to CE is her relationship with her husband: She couldn't stand to live with him, a totally good, caring and nice guy. And, more to the point, attemped to murder him in more than one occasion, when she could have simply run away from him (the CN way to do things) like she finally did after repeatedly fail in her attemps.
Plus, she was the opposite of LG Durkon.
So my veredict is:
Hylga: CE
...
Pompey: ???
Pompey is, at least, Evil, like he himself said in the strip. Probably NE.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2011-08-05 at 11:12 AM.
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2011-08-05, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Pilgrim, V doing evil acts , whether under false impression or not, means that V was swimming in the NE side of the alignment pool. If it STAYED there or not is the question.
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2011-08-05, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
One hour of evil acts does not make you temporarily evil. It just shifts your alignment slowly toward evil and MIGHT change it, permanently (Or until good acts shift you back to neutral).
That's how the alignment system works in D&D.Last edited by Zerg Cookie; 2011-08-05 at 11:46 AM.
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2011-08-05, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Acts of extreme evil, (hint: unjustly slaughtering hundreds of sentient beings including dragons, centaurs, etc. not for any good reason but for the explicit purpose of torture, and enjoying every death,) can push an alignment completely over.
What about Soon Kim, Girard Draketooth, Serini, all those guys? I don't think there is much point talking about all the characters Roy met in the LG afterlife...Last edited by SowZ; 2011-08-05 at 11:59 AM.
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2011-08-05, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Crystal and Pompey seems more NE.
You missed Bozzok, Hank and Inkyrius
V was not evil when spliced, because as the IFCC stated, the splice didn't affect her alignment at all, just incited her to commit evil under the false impression that her aligment had been adjusted due to the splice and thus she was no longer responsible for her acts.
Last edited by Burner28; 2011-08-05 at 12:09 PM.
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
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2011-08-05, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
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2011-08-05, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
I tend to see Haley as more of a CN character... perhaps leaning towards CG lately (particularly after Roy's death), but still CN.
Last edited by zero; 2011-08-05 at 12:26 PM.
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2011-08-05, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Yes, me too. Torture for the sake of torture and theft of someone justified as, 'well, they are rich,' are both evil acts. Lately, though, we have seen her commit neither of those acts and she has certainly acted selflessly on a number of occasions. (I still wonder why she didn't take the gnome to get raised, but whatever.) I think she is on the edge of CG and CN, but just barely in CG range.
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2011-08-05, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Remember that not everyone thinks that stealing from the rich is necessarily an Evil act. On Haley's alignment, didn't she say that she was Chaotic Good-ish?
When did she torture?
Edit: You also forgot to add these two assassinsLast edited by Burner28; 2011-08-05 at 01:01 PM.
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
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2011-08-05, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Last edited by Zerg Cookie; 2011-08-05 at 01:15 PM.
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2011-08-05, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
So what if all of them were Evil aligned? V did not know that they were necessarily murderers nor cared about their alignment.
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
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2011-08-05, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
I can think murdering baby halflings is not an evil act if I want. Besides, Haley steals from those that steal from the rich. Plus, Haley is rich herself. Very rich. Stabbing someone over and over, knowing they are going to be rezzed, just to satisfy a childhood rivalry is definitely torture.
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2011-08-05, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-05, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
You are forgetting one important thing-V was not literally forced to kill those black dragons
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
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2011-08-05, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
If they were all good or all evil it wouldn't matter when deciding Vs alignment. As you say, he did know or care about their alignment. If I pushed a guy walking down the street into traffic because I thought it was funny, that would be very evil even if I later discovered that he was a serial murderer.
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2011-08-05, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-05, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
The whole point I was trying to say was that V still did a very Evil deed when he/she killed all those dragons. This obviously would have affect her alignment in contrary to what you said here
V was not evil when spliced, because as the IFCC stated, the splice didn't affect her alignment at all, just incited her to commit evil under the false impression that her aligment had been adjusted due to the splice and thus she was no longer responsible for her acts.: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
avatar made by Haruki-kun
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2011-08-05, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Since V wasn't forced to commit genocide, he is fully responsible for the genocide. If I told someone I had placed an evil control chip in their brain, they believed me, then I said they should go murder a hundred random people and they did it and no such chip existed, the murderer would not be absolved by this.
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2011-08-05, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
On strip #668 the IFCC state that after the Familicide affair, they had "a 50-50 chance" of ending up with V's soul anyway.
That translates, in my understanding, that the affair settled her aligment to halfway between Neutral and Evil.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2011-08-05 at 01:46 PM.
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2011-08-05, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-05, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
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2011-08-05, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Well, I'm sorry that either you have poor reading skills, or I have poor redaction skills.
I'll break down my sentence so you may fully understand it:
...
V was not evil when spliced, because:
As the IFCC stated, the splice didn't affect her alignment at all, just incited her to commit evil under the false impression that:
Her aligment had been adjusted due to the splice and thus she was no longer responsible for her acts.
...
So, you understand? The "false impression" was; V not responsible for her acts because the splice had affected her aligment. The bolded sentence is the lie that the IFCC told her in order to incite her to do evil acts, as explained by the metaphor about the non-alcoholic beer in the strip you linked above.
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2011-08-05, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
Even if that would be the case, V's aligment is still exactly the same, with splice or without it.
The argument I was replying to, was the "V: N, NE when spliced" in the OP. The act of splicing, by itself, didn't alter her aligment. If the Familicide spell turned V to Evil, then Post-Splice V would still be Evil until redeemed
(and, through V has lamented many of her actions under the Splice, I don't remember to having read her any regret about obliterating the whole Mama Dragon's Family Line, neither any affirmative action to redeem it).
No, I never said so.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2011-08-05 at 02:03 PM.
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2011-08-05, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-05, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Alignments of the stick
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
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