Final Fantasy

[dgnslyr]

Well, I see it as a holdover, because video game RPGs were naturally based off pen-and-paper RPGs, where the description was more apt. Video games of the genre are similarly heavily stat-driven, even if the role-playing aspect from which the genre receives its name isn't so prominent. Some names are holdovers from before, even if it doesn't make sense in the present, like American football, where the ball is handled mostly with hands, or horse roads, the Chinese phrase for streets, which are used by cars.

[ThiagoMartell]

Do you guys remember the Evil Wall in FFIV? In my first playthrough that thing was devious. In the DS remake, it was pretty easy, though.

[The Succubus]

Oh God, the Wall....Trying to kill that wretched thing was like smacking your head against a brick door.

[GloatingSwine]

Oh God, the Wall....Trying to kill that wretched thing was like smacking your head against a brick door.

Berserk+Haste. Smash your head against that brick wall faster and harder.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Do you guys remember the Evil Wall in FFIV? In my first playthrough that thing was devious. In the DS remake, it was pretty easy, though.

Wasn't that in the Dark Elf cave where you couldn't use metal gear because of the magnetic field (one of the better ways of a Boss being Genre Savvy and countering one of his weaknesses)? It wasn't just that it had a boatload of hit points, and only a few turns until it killed the party... it was that you had to do it with sub-par gear.

[Chen]

I don't recall the gear being sub-par. I do remember the trap for that wall though. Using your super powerful big spells was ineffective because they were super slow to cast. Virus on the other hand was fast to cast and for some reason did TONS of damage to the wall. Killed it easily once I made that switch.

[DiscipleofBob]

But all in all: None are actualy RPGs. You don't PLAY a ROLE. You watch somebody else play their character and the combat is about as disconnected as it gets.

Like: If I can summon GODS and meteors then why can't I open a BLOODY WOODEN DOOR!

I disagree with your definition of RPG, especially since Final Fantasy was the original RPG series for me, and I personally can't stand where everything from Adventure games to FPS that has anything remotely resembling a plot or leveling mechanic it's considered an RPG.

Yeah, if there's one thing I learned in Final Fantasy 4, first video game I ever played, it's "Why use any other Black Magic spell but Virus?" for anything other than novelty. Very few things it doesn't take care of.

I really didn't like the DS remake. It probably has a lot to do with "They Changed It, Now it Sucks" trope/fallacy, but the changes in gameplay and animation style never stopped irking me.

After Years, on the other hand, I regard as one of the best RPG's ever made, even if the ending plot made no sense.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'm trying really hard but I can't remember any boss from any other Final Fantasy game being as frustrating as the Evil Wall.
Oh. Wiegraf from FFT. Yeah, there is that...

[Scowling Dragon]

I disagree with your definition of RPG, especially since Final Fantasy was the original RPG series for me, and I personally can't stand where everything from Adventure games to FPS that has anything remotely resembling a plot or leveling mechanic it's considered an RPG.

It is a holdover from pen and paper gaming, and just attaching "stats" to a fps doesn't add RPG elements. It adds Stat elements.

I consider games where you have control over what your character says/ does to be an RPG. The control musn't be absolute (Some plot railroading is required for better plot), but JRPG needs to be called something else.

Mass effect is a RPG in my opinion.

[Zevox]

I consider games where you have control over what your character says/ does to be an RPG.

That's good for you, but decades of developer, publisher, and gamer use of the term disagrees with you. Good luck getting everyone else to change their mind.

Zevox

[danzibr]

That's good for you, but decades of developer, publisher, and gamer use of the term disagrees with you. Good luck getting everyone else to change their mind.

Zevox

Agreed.

Calling Final Fantasy an RPG is a bit of a misnomer, but hey, that's what everyone calls it. It'd be like trying to get everyone to say a meager set rather than a set of first category. Perhaps we should start calling them... level-up-adventure games (LUAG's). 'Cause you go on adventures. And level up.

Back to the OP's question, man, I dunno. FFVII is personally my favorite, but FFVII was like the first real LUAG I ever played. Before that I just played fighting games and stuff. While I do think FFVII is a good game, I think nostalgia is clouding my judgment.

I did like FFXII's system but the characters were too bland. FFVIII was pretty decent, I think, even though the plot was a little on the weak side and I hated the fact that if you used your best magic your stats would lower. Oh, and that monsters leveled up with you.

... Rather than go on, I think each game has its merits and demerits. My favorites would be FFIV, FFXI (FFVI), FFVII and FFX.

I didn't care much for FFV or FFIX. Or, dare I say it, FFT.

[Triaxx]

FFV, I can understand. It was beyond boring.

9 was fantastic, it took the series back towards it's roots, from it's course towards higher and higher tech til it was nearly no longer fantasy.

[Eldariel]

... Rather than go on, I think each game has its merits and demerits. My favorites would be FFIV, FFXI, FFVII and FFX.

I didn't care much for FFV or FFIX. Or, dare I say it, FFT.

Have you played FFVI yet? 'cause if not, you probably should; I wager you'd love it.

[danzibr]

Have you played FFVI yet? 'cause if not, you probably should; I wager you'd love it.

lolol... I made a terrible, terrible typo.

I never tried FFXI. I meant to say I liked FFVI. And I did indeed love it :)

[Traab]

lolol... I made a terrible, terrible typo.

I never tried FFXI. I meant to say I liked FFVI. And I did indeed love it :)

Meh, 6, 11, both were pretty much the same.



/runs and hides

[danzibr]

Meh, 6, 11, both were pretty much the same.



/runs and hides

Hmm? Don't people use blue for sarcasm?

[DigoDragon]

I'm trying really hard but I can't remember any boss from any other Final Fantasy game being as frustrating as the Evil Wall.
Oh. Wiegraf from FFT. Yeah, there is that...

I'm trying to remember, is it the solo battle with him that was hard?
It's been a long while since I played Tactics.


I think FF5 had some of the harder bosses I've fought. Atomos was one I recall that was absolutely fustrating until I realized someone had to "Take one for the team" and stay taking it.

[ZeroNumerous]

I'm trying to remember, is it the solo battle with him that was hard?
It's been a long while since I played Tactics.

I'd say pretty much every battle with him is hard if you aren't prepared for it.

Wiegraf 1 when you've still got basic classes(Knights, Archers, Wizards, Priests, Squires, and Chemists) is harsh. Particularly because he's packing Statis Sword at this point, and a bad Stop can get someone killed.

Wiegraf 2's more manageable because you have permanent Agrias by this point, but it's still very easy to lose half your team at the outset because you put them in a + formation and got them Lightning Stab'd.

And of course Solo Wiegraf is a game ender if you're unprepared. Made worse by Velius/Belias being a back-to-back battle immediately after Solo Wiegraf.

Of course, once you know where he shows up then he becomes substantially easier.

[danzibr]

Ahh FFT...

To elaborate on my comment of disliking FFT, I thought the game as a whole was actually good, but hated the random battles so much it averages out to disliking the game. In particular, the random battles level up but the plot ones don't, so you can barely be getting by in the randoms but curb stomp the plot battles. This happened at one battle where my main dude was some ninja/monk combo with high movement, walked up and killed some boss in one hit before he could run away and the battle was over but I was struggling in random battles. Gah.

[DigoDragon]

I'd say pretty much every battle with him is hard if you aren't prepared for it.

Ah, okay now it's coming back to me. Thanks for the recap!
Yeah the solo one was quite difficult because by then I've "promoted" Ramza to a support role and not a fighter. So... yeah, pain.

In particular, the random battles level up but the plot ones don't, so you can barely be getting by in the randoms but curb stomp the plot battles.

That was a really weird mechanic of the game. Led to hilarious boss fights at least, like having my ninja go first and Calculate all the minions to explode on the first round.

[Eldariel]

lolol... I made a terrible, terrible typo.

I never tried FFXI. I meant to say I liked FFVI. And I did indeed love it :)

I was a tad surprised there; the MMOs in general are rarely not on peoples' "Favorite Final Fantasies"-lists. Still, in a series with XIII+ games, replacing V with X might result in some misunderstandings That makes a tad more sense

[tyckspoon]

That was a really weird mechanic of the game. Led to hilarious boss fights at least, like having my ninja go first and Calculate all the minions to explode on the first round.

This is what Calculators are *for* whether or not you've over-leveled the fight. It's one of the basic facts of Tactics; if you want the game to be hard, don't use a Calculator.

[Seerow]

This is what Calculators are *for* whether or not you've over-leveled the fight. It's one of the basic facts of Tactics; if you want the game to be hard, don't use a Calculator.

Or at least don't use a Calculator's skills. TrueCalc is probably hands down the hardest challenge in the game.

[T.G. Oskar]

This is what Calculators are *for* whether or not you've over-leveled the fight. It's one of the basic facts of Tactics; if you want the game to be hard, don't use a Calculator.

You forgot to include on that "don't use Orland(ea)u". He's just as cheap as the Calculator.

Then again, if you just want to test the limits of power, there's Reis.

Say, what's the Playground's opinion on Rafa/Rapha and Malak/Marach? Most places I've gone, they're the underdogs because of their abilities. I often like to use them as the Bard and Dancer of my party, despite being essentially contradictory. They do a fine job, IMO, as Bard and Dancer.

[tyckspoon]

Say, what's the Playground's opinion on Rafa/Rapha and Malak/Marach? Most places I've gone, they're the underdogs because of their abilities. I often like to use them as the Bard and Dancer of my party, despite being essentially contradictory. They do a fine job, IMO, as Bard and Dancer.

I usually ignore them and sometimes just boot them from the party- I don't care to use named characters just because they're named, their unique skills are poor, and if I want to have units doing non-unique jobs the generics I've been raising for that purpose will do just as well or better without requiring me to stop and start training a late-coming unique character from scratch.

[Seerow]

You forgot to include on that "don't use Orland(ea)u". He's just as cheap as the Calculator.

Then again, if you just want to test the limits of power, there's Reis.

Say, what's the Playground's opinion on Rafa/Rapha and Malak/Marach? Most places I've gone, they're the underdogs because of their abilities. I often like to use them as the Bard and Dancer of my party, despite being essentially contradictory. They do a fine job, IMO, as Bard and Dancer.

I can't stand their skillsets. If I recall correctly, Rafa's skillset actually has the highest potential damage of anything in the game, but the sheer randomness involved with using their abilities made me just ignore them. I mean sure you can train them in other classes, but they come so late in the game there's really no sense to doing so. And unlike Reis, they don't get absurd stat growth to make up for a lacking skillset.

[Triaxx]

Depends on how flexible you are. If you can catch the enemy in the right spot, so that their skill has only a single square it's targeting, it's the most powerful ability in the game.

I like runnning a pair of back-up dancers, and leaving a wizard and two fighters. It tends to burn down enemies very, very quickly.

[Seerow]

Depends on how flexible you are. If you can catch the enemy in the right spot, so that their skill has only a single square it's targeting, it's the most powerful ability in the game.

I like runnning a pair of back-up dancers, and leaving a wizard and two fighters. It tends to burn down enemies very, very quickly.

Didn't the skills also have a vertical tolerance of like 2 or 3? Enough that you might occasionally cut out a part of the AoE, but you'll basically never cut out all of it.

[Triaxx]

3, but there are a few places you can nail targets with it. It's just a matter of strategy.

[Gnoman]

I actually prefer their skillsets to Black Magic (which I love) against tight clusters of enemies (which happens far more often than you might think, especially if there's a Yellow Chocobo on the field.) IF there's only one or two "null" panels, most of the attacks from the skill will hit something, and softening up a number of enemies is quite nice.

On a similar subject, does anyone like axes and hammers? I always found their random attack power to be significantly worse than the swords available at the same time.